Indeed, this is both my experience and the teaching that i have received. I have used the analogy of a flame before: the flame, its light and heat are one, and yet they can be distinguished. None of them are separated from each other because all cetasika belong to citta, they are ways in which the citta functions, in the same way that light and heat are one because they belong to the flame. D.
--- In [email protected], Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote: > > Sorry there was a big mistake in previous post. Correction below: > Awareness of > in an out breathing, concentration,  attention, > awareness, observation, recognition, acceptance, any of that is > NOT separated from mindfulness. > Mayka > > --- On Sun, 22/5/11, Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> wrote: > > From: Maria Lopez <flordeloto@...> > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Nature of Right-Mindfulness: a Theravada Perspective > To: [email protected] > Date: Sunday, 22 May, 2011, 9:48 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > Daniel wrote: > âTheravada > perspective. Mindfulness itself cannot be defined because it belongs > to the realm of ultimate realities: actualities that cannot be broken > down into finer subjective experiencesâ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > I'm > in complete agreement with statement. This is also my personal > direct experience with mindfulness. As soon as one > starts to give large explanations about what is mindfulness about, > the far away one is from its real meaning and the far away one is > also from the direct experience with it. And this is exactly why I > reduced to the simplicity of: âMindfulness is to be aware of what > is going on in body, mind, within and aroundâ leaving this as a > koan to be break through through the direct experience of the > practice. In zen everything words are very much reduced. Words > mainly are a map to practice straight away. Everything is zen is > reduced to simplicity. Theravada seems to be more into a kind of > Gothic style in the sense of detail ornamentation. Nonetheless it's > an excellent point of dharma buddha reference. > > Awareness of > in an out breathing, concentration,  attention, > awareness, observation, recognition, acceptance, any of that is > separated from mindfulness. Each of these factors complement > all the others. They actually interbeing with each others. And > this is why when I talk about mindfulness, it also implies all the > other factors. And If I would be talking about concentration, then > concentration will also contain mindfulness. This of course provided > that one is practicising mindfulness. > > Enjoy Sunday! > Mayka > > > From: empty0grace <empty0grace@...> > Subject: [Zen] The Nature of Right-Mindfulness: a Theravada Perspective > To: [email protected] > Date: Saturday, 21 May, 2011, 5:00 > > >  > > > The Nature of Right-Mindfulness: a Theravadin Perspective >  > I thought I might post this since we have been discussing the nature of > mindfulness. Here is one possible Theravada perspective. Mindfulness itself > cannot be defined because it belongs to the realm of ultimate realities: > actualities that cannot be broken down into finer subjective experiences. > However, the classical Theravada way of discussing absolute realities is to > discuss them in terms of their functions and characteristics. >  > "The function of mindfulness is to keep the object in view by neither > forgetting it nor allowing it to disappear." (U Pandita: In This Very Life). > This explains the literal meaning of the word sati (Pali) or smrti (Sanskrit) > as remembering. Sati is the remembering of what needs to be remembered in any > situation. It remembers the object, objects or processes of contemplation > (mentality/materiality) and also what we are doing. When you have the > experience of going off to do something in your home, and then forget what it > was you had set out to do, or when you begin to say something and then forget > what it was that you were going to say, you have lost your sati/smrti. It is > often confused with concentration. A meditator can have very strong > concentration, and still have a lapse of mindfulness. This is what happens > when we have been on retreat for some time and our > mind > loses the breath, and we go off fantasies, lust or anger. Have you noticed > how powerful those moments of anger or lust can be on retreat, or how vivid > the fantasies? That is because the mind goes into them with all the power of > the samadhi that has been generated in the prior days. It is like a heavy > fast moving train jumping the track. The mass or weight of the train is the > samadhi. The momentum is the energy in the mind, and the jumping off the > track is the lapse of mindfulness. >  > Mindfulness also has the function of protecting the mind. Somewhere in the > Dhammapada (sorry I don't have time to source it), the Buddha said something > like: "Just as rain cannot enter a well thatched roof, defilement cannot > enter the mind one who is fully mindful." Continuity in the state of > mindfulness therefore brings with it a great purity. >  > Non-superficiality is an important characteristic of mindfulness. As > mindfulness deepens, the objects of contemplation, in this case the flow of > mentality and materiality, are increasingly penetrated. At first the breath > is coarse and not clearly felt, but over time mindfulness reveals the finer > currents of sensation that make up the breath, just so with every other > aspect of both five aggregates. Just as a stone sinks to the bottom of a > river, mindfulness leads consciousness and understanding to gradually > penetrate and eventually completely permeate our experience. >  > The Buddha said, "Mindfulness is everywhere useful." It is the one mental > factor that will develop all of the necessary wholesome mental factors that > support awakening. For example, the continuous application of mindfulness > rouses energy in consciousness. The continuous setting up face to face with > the objects of contemplation develops samadhi, and as the mind penetrates its > present experience more and more deeply with the maturing of mindfulness, > more and more is seen and understood. In this way mindfulness develops > understanding and insight. As experience deepens and wisdom reveals the four > noble truths, the mind gains trust, sadha/sradh, and begins to rest in its > experience. The settling of the mind under the influence of samadhi and trust > brings tranquility. These last three together bring intense lucidity and > purity to the mind, which in turn enable more wisdom. In > this way > all of the 37 requisites of enlightenment are developed. I would say > therefore that mindfulness, if supported by sila, (virtue, morality) is the > womb of bodhi. > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
