Kris,
There is no one who suffers, but only after the realisation that there isn't
even a mind for suffering to happen to is there liberation from it. "Clarity"
here reads as insight.
Mike
________________________________
From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com>
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 20:23
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
Then you still know too much. ;)
If it so clear as that, there is nothing to see. The 'obscuration'
all that may show the way. What you are seeing as separate only
appears to be. All a matter of how you see it. So who is leading
who? Who suffers? In seeking perfection, it forever eludes.
The clear minded are equally empty headed. Don't throw the Buddha
out with the bathwater.
KG
PS - Expresses simpler/more obviously wordlessly - see: 'Wabi
Sabi' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi
On 9/2/2012 12:32 PM, mike brown wrote:
>Kris,
>
>
>>I might point out that apparent obscuration is no less reality than apparent
>>clarity
>
>Reality is certainly there regardless, but reality seen
with obscuration leads to suffering, whereas reality seen
with clarity will lead to the cessation of suffering.
That's all I need to know and that is my witness.
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Kristopher Grey <k...@kgrey.com>
>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 16:11
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>
>
>
>I might point out that apparent obscuration is no less reality than apparent
>clarity. In doing so, this point only dances around itself - offers nothing
>you can't realize directly.
>
>What can anyone say in response that you will
not directly experience (realize) as some
aspect of this reality/realization- whether
you realize it or not - just as when
experiencing meditation/not meditation?
>
>This more or less business is you
triangulating your position. Nothing more,
nothing less.
>
>KG
>
>
>
>On 9/2/2012 5:57 AM, mike brown wrote:
>
>
>>Edgar,
>>
>>
>>Wouldn't you say tho, that reality is less obscured during, or just after, a
>>long retreat of meditation?
>>
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net>
>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Sunday, 2 September 2012, 1:13
>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>>
>>
>>
>>Mike,
>>
>>
>>Well, it's reality either way, but that reality is always changing as
>>happening continually flows through the present moment. But however it
>>changes it is still reality....
>>
>>
>>Edgar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sep 1, 2012, at 6:09 PM, mike brown wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Edgar,
>>>
>>>
>>>Would you say that the world (inner/outer) you look at now is the same as
>>>when you're at the end of a sesshin?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net>
>>>To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
>>>Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2012, 18:44
>>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: " dancing with the daffodils"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>ED,
>>>
>>>
>>>Stop practicing and just BE your Buddha Nature!
>>>
>>>
>>>Edgar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sep 1, 2012, at 12:22 PM, ED wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Edgar,
>>>>
>>>>Therefore,
although each
of us is
complete, we
need to
practice
>>>>diligently at
all times with
no objective
in mind?
>>>>
>>>>--ED
>>>>
>>>>--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe and
Merle,
>>>>>
>>>>> There is
no 'goal' of
enlightenment
to be achieved
without which
you
>>>>imagine you
are
incomplete....
>>>>>
>>>>> There is
no
incompleteness.
This
understanding
is an
essential
aspect
>>>>of
realization...
>>>>>
>>>>> Wham!
>>>>>
>>>>> Edgar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
