Merle, I don't know what you mean by your post below...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > Â jesus bill!!!!!!!!..you are so so so..black and white..it's one or the > other..no shades of grey eh?...merle > Â > Edgar, > > Of course I don't know who you've been talking to so can't really refute > that, but it might be just a misunderstanding. > > For example when I say 'I eat when hungry, sleep when tired and wake when > rested', I don't mean that in a passive sense, no do I mean that's all that I > do. I mean I do whatever I'm moved to do when I'm moved to do it. That > could mean 'I make obnoxious, large signs and march up and down on the beach > when someone starts building a condo'. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > Yes they are active Bill, but then most of them claim they aren't dong Zen > > when they ARE being active... They claim they are doing zen only when > > sitting passively... That's the difference.. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Oct 18, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > I think most zen practitioners are very active, but not active in doing > > > the things you and your co-conspirator Merle are looking for. I think > > > most zen practitioners are active changing the world from the bottom up > > > rather than the top down. That is changing ourselves first and then > > > radiating out, rather than starting at trying to change the government or > > > society first and expecting the change will then trickle down to the > > > individual. > > > > > > These two courses of action are discussed in detail in Arthur Koestler's > > > excellent essay THE YOGI AND THE COMMISSAR . > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > KG for one... > > > > > > > > What Bill! says as opposed to what he actually does for another... > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 9:51 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar and Joe, > > > > > > > > > > Where did you get the idea that 'zen practitioners' are predominately > > > > > passive? > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" desert_woodworker@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome home! > > > > > > > > > > > > Right. > > > > > > > > > > > > And if you knew Aitken Roshi, you'd be exhausted by now even just > > > > > > FOLLOWING the activism that he engaged in, much less participating > > > > > > in it with him. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > But I don't know where the notion of passivity of/as Zen > > > > > > practitioners comes from, which you mention. That may be the > > > > > > outsiders' view, due to "media" lack of understanding, going just > > > > > > one half millimeter deep; but it's not the view from the inside / > > > > > > our side. As you know! > > > > > > > > > > > > Whatever's necessary is what GOES. Look out, passivists, and > > > > > > paci-fists. Here come REAL Fists! We are the true kung-fu. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Nihilism is knee-hilism: Not in MY "zen"! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > Zen-mind operates in a way opposite to "total passivity and > > > > > > nihilism'; never heard of such baloney / bullshit before now, in > > > > > > all my life. It is the Life-of-Life, instead; and not a sickly > > > > > > concept. Again, you know. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just agreeing with you. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely admirable! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In spite of what some would have us believe Zen does not require > > > > > > > total passivity and nihilism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
