jesus bill!!!!!!!!..you are so so so..black and white..it's one or the other..no shades of grey eh?...merle Edgar,
Of course I don't know who you've been talking to so can't really refute that, but it might be just a misunderstanding. For example when I say 'I eat when hungry, sleep when tired and wake when rested', I don't mean that in a passive sense, no do I mean that's all that I do. I mean I do whatever I'm moved to do when I'm moved to do it. That could mean 'I make obnoxious, large signs and march up and down on the beach when someone starts building a condo'. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Yes they are active Bill, but then most of them claim they aren't dong Zen > when they ARE being active... They claim they are doing zen only when sitting > passively... That's the difference.. > > Edgar > > > > On Oct 18, 2012, at 7:49 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > I think most zen practitioners are very active, but not active in doing the > > things you and your co-conspirator Merle are looking for. I think most zen > > practitioners are active changing the world from the bottom up rather than > > the top down. That is changing ourselves first and then radiating out, > > rather than starting at trying to change the government or society first > > and expecting the change will then trickle down to the individual. > > > > These two courses of action are discussed in detail in Arthur Koestler's > > excellent essay THE YOGI AND THE COMMISSAR . > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > KG for one... > > > > > > What Bill! says as opposed to what he actually does for another... > > > :-) > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 17, 2012, at 9:51 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > Edgar and Joe, > > > > > > > > Where did you get the idea that 'zen practitioners' are predominately > > > > passive? > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" desert_woodworker@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > Welcome home! > > > > > > > > > > Right. > > > > > > > > > > And if you knew Aitken Roshi, you'd be exhausted by now even just > > > > > FOLLOWING the activism that he engaged in, much less participating in > > > > > it with him. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > But I don't know where the notion of passivity of/as Zen > > > > > practitioners comes from, which you mention. That may be the > > > > > outsiders' view, due to "media" lack of understanding, going just one > > > > > half millimeter deep; but it's not the view from the inside / our > > > > > side. As you know! > > > > > > > > > > Whatever's necessary is what GOES. Look out, passivists, and > > > > > paci-fists. Here come REAL Fists! We are the true kung-fu. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Nihilism is knee-hilism: Not in MY "zen"! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > Zen-mind operates in a way opposite to "total passivity and > > > > > nihilism'; never heard of such baloney / bullshit before now, in all > > > > > my life. It is the Life-of-Life, instead; and not a sickly concept. > > > > > Again, you know. > > > > > > > > > > Just agreeing with you. > > > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > > > Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely admirable! > > > > > > > > > > > > In spite of what some would have us believe Zen does not require > > > > > > total passivity and nihilism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
