Bill, Right. It matters only IF it matters, either one way or the other...
Edgar On Apr 7, 2013, at 2:58 AM, Bill! wrote: > William, > > I'm siding with Edgar too! > > It doesn't really matter how you hold your hands, BUT if you're CONCERNED > about how to hold your hands and it's keeping you from concentrating I'm > saying you can follow Joe's advice (which is pretty much the way I was > taught) and then you don't have to worry about it anymore. > > BUT, it really doesn't matter... > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote: > > > > Bill: > > > >    I have to side with Edgar here. What real difference does it make > > how > > you hold your hands?  I have seen numerous positions and the only useful > > explanation given was that a difficult hand position kept the individual > > from > > falling asleep. > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Bill! <BillSmart@...> > > To: [email protected] > > Sent: Fri, April 5, 2013 8:02:53 PM > > Subject: [Zen] Re: standing zen meditation > > > >  > > Edgar, > > > > I again agree with your post below, but offer an alternate interpretation > > to the > > last phrase of your last line..., "...not getting mired in interminable > > details." > > > > Many of the teachings, dogmas and rituals of Zen Buddhism, Buddhism and > > religions in general are taught to do precisely that - keep the student > > from > > getting 'mired down details'. > > > > In this example if you are told how to hold your hands and then practice > > that > > you don't have to worry about your hands anymore. You are free to do > > whatever > > else it is that the religion wants you to do. It's the same in any activity > > like > > praying, bowing, and even sports. If you learn the basics by rote you can > > then > > practice them without having to think anymore about them anymore. > > > > Just a thought on this... > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > Again all these details only distract from the real point. Buddha is > > > Buddha, no > > >matter what his posture, whether his hands are closed or open, his eyes > > >open, > > >closed or half closed. > > > > > > Zen is realizing your inner Buddha, not getting mired in interminable > > >details... > > > > > > You'll never realize Buddha if you are always checking your hands, your > > > posture > > >and whatever... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 5, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > Your teacher may tell you differently. > > > > > > > > I learned to place the RIGHT hand in a loose "fist", and hold it at > > > > about the > > >navel. Then to cover the right fist with the LEFT hand. With the left > > >thumb on > > >top of the right fist. And just keep the shoulders and arms relaxed while > > >standing or walking this way. > > > > > > > > It's a natural and relaxed "closed" position, rather than letting the > > > > arms > > >dangle openly at the sides. > > > > > > > > This is also called "kinhin mudra", or Shashu. It's used when doing > > > > walking > > >meditation, "kinhin". It's also used when standing; and, when standing and > > >listening to the Dharma, as when the teacher is speaking and we are on our > > >feet. > > > > > > > > When walking about the zendo, or outside it, people often walk using > > > > Shashu > > >hand position, too, and never swing the arms at the sides. This is not a > > >rule, > > >it's a Practice. It helps us to keep in mind that we are there to > > >PRACTICE, > > >...not to walk around. > > > > > > > > > > > We have a lot of practical reminders of what we're doing there, what > > > > we're > > >there for. This is one of them. It sets an "atmosphere", too, about the > > >place, > > >an attitude of protecting our place of practice, so we can all practice > > >without > > >disruption, and come to awakening. > > > > > > > > It's a small thing, but small things are big when things quiet down, > > > > and we > > >become more sensitive. So, we do this. For ourselves and for each other. > > >It's > > >also a way of quieting things down. > > > > > > > > The Zen tradition has always emphasized practicing together. And it has > > > > such > > >ways of helping this work really well. > > > > > > > > Eyes are usually open in everything, except when sleeping. They "see", > > > > but > > >are not looking in focused fashion at anything in particular. Sight is > > >passive, > > >and we do not "stare" at anything, nor look around. When we sit or stand > > >to > > >meditate, we do not move any part of the body, not even the eyes. Of > > >course, the > > >breath comes and goes naturally by itself without controlling. > > > > > > > > Well, again, this is as I learned it and as many of us do it. > > > > > > > > My teacher used to tell us, though, that, "Wherever you go, just fall > > > > right > > >in with how they practice, there." As a guest, do as the host does. > > > > > > > > Harmonizing is probably key to the whole business. Water flows easily, > > > > but a > > >brittle stick is stubborn, and makes a loud noise when it snaps (then, > > >opportunity is lost). > > > > > > > > Good practice! > > > > > > > > The Zen in a Chair teacher may give some good example and model these > > > > things. > > >I hope it goes well! > > > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > > > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > joe..thank you..can you describe how the hands are held in standing > > >meditation.?... i had the feeling i needed to open my eyes however in the > > >past > > >types of meditations there is the instruction to close the eyes...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
