Well said, Mike. Applaud.. jm
On 7/3/2013 12:04 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Bill!,
It's just two sides of the same coin. Zen just gets you to awaken with
very little explanation and instruction - The sutras explain the
processes of the mind that create a self and suffering and the steps
necessary to awaken and be liberated. Both work. Zen is a steep
cliff-face that can get you to the top quickly, but you'll see few at
the top. 'Buddhism' is a less steep and longer winding route that
takes longer to reach the summit, but is more accessible and will see
more people reach the top.
Mike
Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: * Bill! <billsm...@hhs1963.org>;
*To: * <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com>;
*Subject: * [Zen] Re: Fw: It was like Shiva dancing in rage
*Sent: * Wed, Jul 3, 2013 6:50:20 AM
Joe,
I do feel that Buddhism proper causes humans to suffer. I feel that it
gives them a false sense (an intellectually-based belief) that they
know what awakening is and how to conduct themselves in accordance
with someone else's teachings who they believe was awakened. In truth
it probably makes them feel better, but it keeps them from going
further - to awaken themselves.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
>
> quoting:
> "I think Buddhism itself needs to be discarded completely."
>
> Face it: it cannot be. It is a living thing. Living things evolve. I
see no asteroid coming to smack it.
>
> Zen practice is a personal choice for a person who can cut to the
chase, ...or who can embrace nothing else.
>
> Other practice is available for folks with a different bent.
>
> I think, again, that your view of "need" is a personal one. If it's
a more extensive view, then I say, "get on with accomplishing it".
>
> Remember the objection against considering to end the war in Vietnam?:
>
> "What are you going to replace it with?"
>
> But I think you have personally already discarded Buddhism; you call
your practice "Zen", not "Zen Buddhism". It would seem already that
Buddhism should not annoy you.
>
> Where else do you mean you would like to see it discarded? And, for
what PRACTICAL purpose? Is it like a swarm of mosquitoes that annoys you?
>
> Or do you, as a Bodhisattva, feel that it is causing sentient beings
to suffer?
>
> coffee time,
>
> best!,
>
> --Joe
>
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > I think Buddhism itself needs to be discarded completely.
> >
> > Zen, on the other hand, as it's presented in a lot of zen
literature is presented very simply and very effectively. There is
some zen literature that is complex also, but most of that is either
trying to resolve zen with Buddhism or explain in an almost technical
style the experience of Buddha Nature.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm just more supportive of the KISS school - and the
simpler the better.
>
