Dear Khazeh, I feel like you aren't understanding what I'm saying. I try to ask simple questions to get clear answers and instead I feel like (with alot of love and affection) you give me long answers which avoid the specific point being made. And it seems like either you don't see what I'm getting at and are just missing it, or you do see what I'm getting at and are trying to avoid it.
Perhaps first and foremost the Bahahi faith is a certain way of thinking and a certain approach to religion more than a specific set of propositions and doctrines? Is that what you are trying to say? On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:51:14 -0000, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Gilberto: > ** > "What I guess I'm saying is that given the noble > descriptions of the battles fought by Muhammad and Hussein in the > Bahai writings, there is absolutely nothing wrong with "jihad" when > understood properly. And so it doesn't make sense to blot it from the > book because there is nothing at all evil, selfish, bloodthirsty or > unnecessary in it. > > And for Bahais to say that "holy war" has been blotted out, but > "righteous warfare" is A-ok, is like saying 6 is bigger than > half-a-dozen. Khazeh: > It is all to do with understanding, recognizing, the Source of Command > [S.aahib al Amr] in each Dispensation of Providence. > Of course it is the case that in the Dispensation of the Qur'an the Law was > explicit: > We are not God forbid criticizing these or belittling or stultifying these > Commandments. Gilberto: I'm not saying you are insulting or belittling those commandments. I understand that you think very highly of Allah, Muhammad, the Quran and the Imams. But let's look again at the ayat of Quran which you mentioned: > 2:193And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should > be only for God, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility > except against the oppressors. > "Waqatiloohum hatta la takoona fitnatun wayakoona alddeenu lillahi fa-ini > intahaw fala AAudwana illa AAala alththalimeena" So the Quran permits fighting against people who are persecuting, who are oppressing. And not against those who are not oppressing. Can we agree to that? Now, when I read the passage in the Bahai writings, the section on "righteous warfare" or read about collective security, this also gives permission to fight against those who are aggressors but not against those who are peaceful, correct? So where is the progress? Are you saying that the two teachings are the same? Or are they different? > In a sense if Moses or Jesus lived in the Days of Muhammad in Arabia He > would give the same Teachings and mutatis mutandis. Okay. That is a good statement. But it is not just a matter of the calendar. It is a matter of the specific situation. But that can all be taken care of within the Quran and sunnah. Some situations now are like situations then, and if we understand the connection properly one can act accordingly. . Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
