On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:28:08 -0600, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Gilberto, [much deleted] Gilberto: > >>I think the picture gets more complex than that. I think in Judaism there > >>actually may be a date where they say the canon is closed and no more > >>prophets are coming.<< Mark: > Yes Gilberto: > >> [But] In Christian circles there is a charismatic movement which is even > >> getting into the Catholic Church.<< > It was already well established within Roman Catholicism in the 1970s. > > My Ph.D. dissertation was on the American pentecostal movement, including the > charismatics. Almost no pentecostals or charismatics (even among the > unconventional Weirwillites) would argue that the biblical canon has been > extended. Instead, they would say that continuing prophecy, tongues, > interpretations of tongues, words of knowledge, and words of wisdom function > within a "biblical" context to clarify and apply the scriptures. Gilberto: Ok. I guess I would emphasize that such groups are not saying that God is silent. And so it is not clear exactly how Bahais are saying that they are different. Mark: > The pre-pentecostal Catholic Apostolic and New Apostolic churches, like a few > other Christian churches and sects, have instituted various offices, > including prophets. However, those prophets are expected to apply, not to add > to, the "Bible," as they understood it. Gilberto: Yeah, I remember having a conversation a few years ago with someone who introduced himself as a "prophet". I think that might have been his background as well. Gilberto: > >>And the Catholic Church certainly has approved of many saints and > >>visionaries who are associeted with miracles and personal revelation. (The > >>messages from Fatima would be a good example).<< Mark: > Yes, but they are acting, and "revealing," within the framework of > established Roman Catholic dogma. It is up to the Papacy whether to accept > the legitimacy of a particular vision or series of visions. Gilberto: Sure but then the Bahais are doing the same thing. I mean, there are many Bahais who construe the attitude of other religions as being closed to further revelation or believing that God is silent or has stopped guiding mankind and that's substantially not true. The mainstream orthodox (at least not uncommon) view in Islam AND Christianity is that God still speaks to mankind in various ways. That doesn't mean that every Tom Dick and Harry should be aknowledged as the next prophet. And at least judging from your account the Bahai faith is similar: Gilberto: > >>(Does the Bahai faith have charismatic figures like that?) Mark: > There have been people like that. I knew one personally (the late Rob Pasca). > He was a good friend of mine (from Long Island) and one of the most > fascinating persons I have ever known. However, he was repeatedly cautioned > by Baha'i institutions not to represent his understandings as related to the > Baha'i Faith. Individual inspirations have no authority in a Baha'i context. > >>It seems to me that both the Bahai faith and Islam and Christianity are > >>saying that God is still active in the world providing guidance to > >>individuals in various ways. Islam is only saying that a very particular > >>way of doing that has ended.<< Mark: > Most branches of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism would reject additions to > their respective scriptures (the Qur'an, the Christian Bible, and the > Tanakh). So does the Baha'i Faith, but we accept the possibility of further > scriptures in later Dispensations. Gilberto: Sure, but functionally, for the next 1000 years or so, the Bahai faith will be at least as closed-mided about this as any other religion. [Hebrew Israelites, Hebrew Christians] Gilberto: > >>I'm not sure I would have included them [Nubian Islamic Hebrews or Malachai > >>Z York's group (whatever name it has this week) ] in the Hebrew > >>Israelites.<< > > Why not? > > >>I think the Nubian Islamic Hebrews used to be the Ansars. So they were led > >>by Dr. York and believed in the lastest Mahdi in the Sudan.<< > > Yes, and York claimed to have come up with the supposed "nineteen" (wahid) > formula before Rashad Khalifa. (If I were either of them, I wouldn't be > bragging about it!) Gilberto: > >>I've read a bunch about them and have talked to some in Detroit the past > >>year. They seemed really loose and syncretic in some ways. Accepting the > >>Quran but also the deity of Christ. Mixing stuff about UFOs and things. The > >>latest I've heard about them they have a compound somewhere in the South > >>and are building pyramids.<< Mark: > I have four of their books where they discuss those ideas. Gilberto: It seems to me that there are alot of groups which are Black, Bible Based, which really center on Follow the commandments of God. They seem to be following a basically conservative impulse. Saying the other churches and organizations have lost their way, let themselves be influenced by paganism, western culture, etc. while they want to go back to an older way of life, following the Torah, adopting Hebrew names, identifying themselves with God's people, or the Israelites, etc. As far as I can tell Malachi Z. York doesn't really focus on those things, incorporating Islamic elements, Pharonic elements, UFOs and plenty of other non-Biblical material. Apart from the similarity of names, I'm not convinced that the affinity with the other groups is all that deep. Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
