The Baha'i Studies Listserv The articles show the relationship between religion and morality and ethics.
Why should non- Bahai's take Baha'i morality and ethics over all else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality_and_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_religion Sent from my iPad On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:37, Stephen Kent Gray <skg_z...@yahoo.com> wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I really should study the implications of this. New religious movements, > religions founded in the eighteenth century or later, and their relationship > to post conventional morality. > > Baha'i Faith, Cao Dai, Cheondogyo, Tenrikyo, Wicca, Sekai Kyuseikyo, Seicho- > No-Ie, Rastafari Movement or Rastafarianism, Unitarian Universalism, > Scientology, Eckankar, Raëlian Movement or Raëlism, Neo-Druidry or > Neo-Druidism, Theosophy, Anthroposophy, Thelema, various ics.Japanese > Shinshukyo, Discordianism, various UFO religions, Relgious Humanism, > Religious Existentialism, Ayyavazhi, Mormonism, New Thought, New Age > Movement, Contemporary Modern Neo Paganism, New Group of World Severs, Arcane > School, I AM Activity, The Bridge to Freedom, Church Universal and > Triumphant, The Summit Lighthouse, Share International, Agni Yoga, Liberal > Catholic Church, The Temple of the Presence, The Hearts Center, I AM > University, White Eagle Lodge, Adi Dam, Sahaja Yoga, Neo-Gnosticism, Unarius > Academy of Science, Konkokyo, Oomotokyo, Kafuku no Kagaku, various Nichiren > Buddhism lay movements, and many other New Religious Movements are good > examples to use. > > I assume everyone here is familiar with Kohlberg and his six, or seven, > stages of moral development and don't need to explain pre-conventional, > conventional, and post-conventional moralities. Conventional morality tends > to make people think under the lines of malum prohibitum or mala prohibita, > evil because it's prohibited. Post conventional morality tends to make people > think in terms of malum in se or mala in se, evil in and of itself. Most of > the above religions above are completely post conventional. I guess the > Baha'i Faith is post conventional, but the Kitab-I-Aqdas does tend to be used > as a tool of conventional rather than post conventional morality. I would > rather use other examples of the above. Unitarian Universalism is a prime > example with no laws at all, but various principles. Wicca is another example > with the Wiccan Rede as a good summary of post conventional morality as well > as the Charge of the Goddess. Scientology and the Way to Happiness also > describe morality in this way as well. Nichiren Buddhism and its Diamond > Chalice Precept is another good example of post conventional morality. The > parables of the Lotus Sutra are also used as guidelines of ethical and moral > principles. Mahayana Buddhism in general has favored non-aggression based > compassion in, over, and above all things. This has lead to a history of > compassion leading people to do prohibited things which aren't evil in > themselves, but were prohibited because compassion dictated it. Drinking > alcohol, having sex, eating animal products, wearing animal products, etc. > can be motivated by compassion and bring people closer to enlightenment as > illustrated in the Buddhism section of the books section of the Religion and > Sexuality page on Wikipedia. I remember looking at the previews on Amazon of > the two books on Sex in Zen and Buddhism in general as well, especially Zen > and Vajrayana. The above position has been known as the standard Tantra > position. > > Also, no I don't align myself with the the Left or the Right most of the time > because my fiscal responsibility puts me at odds with the Left and my social > tolerance puts me at odds with the Right. > > This reminds me of a recent debate on Abby Martin, because I watch RT News. > She had three representatives of various ideologies on her show to debate. > Two representatives of the Libertarian Left and one representative of the > Libertarian Right. Actually, they wound up agreeing on a whole bunch of > points. > > A side note is that the Left wing media tends to fire anyone who questions > Authoritarianism. Once that happens, Right wing media picks them up and hires > them. Just think of all the people who were fired from CNN, NBC, NPR, or > whatever other media outlet for ideological reasons and now work for Fox. > Noam Chomsky, a noted Left Libertarian, has said that original only Right > wing publishers were willing to publish his works. > > There is also the rise of a pro-LGBT conservatism as seen by the likes of > David Cameron in Great Britain. They favor LGBT rights, but for different > reasons than the Authoritarian Left. The Libertarian Right questions the > government's authority to centrally plan society and the economy. Marriage > privatization is seen as ideal. The Libertarian Right, libertarians and > conservatives, oppose aggression as opposed to the Authoritarian Left who has > no qualms about using aggression as a means to all of its ends. Look up all > the organizations that support same sex marriage in the United States on > Wikipedia. Notice that depending on the ideology of the organization they > will formulate different reasons for supporting same sex marriage. Things > like adoption and marriage are private contracts and the government has no > reason to interfere is the standard Libertarian Right argument. The > government needs to step in and socially engineer society by using aggression > as a means of achieving desired social policies such as forcing people to > accept and recognize as acceptable what we view as such like gay marriage and > gay adoption while reject and unacceptable what we view as such like support > for traditional marriage. > > Note Liberalism can mean four different ideologies: Conservatism > (paradoxically to people who believe this is the opposite of liberalism), > Classical Market Liberalism (better known as Libertarianism), Modern Social > Liberalism (better known as Progressivism), and Social Democracy. > > I think the free market is the most efficient and effective mean of > administration. I also favor the non-aggression principle in all things and > over all things for morality. Also, what I've read from various blogs like > Karen Bacquet's blogs and various other is that the ideal of Baha'i > Administration and the reality of Baha'i Administration are two separate > things. Actually the stories I've read of Baha'i Administration in action > rivals North Korea, Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, and other such places in > terms of totalitarianism. > > Interesting side note, what if consultation resulted in the people involved > accepting anything forbidden by the Kitab-I-Aqdas? While homosexuality isn't > technically mentioned, people who are familiar with the homosexuals and > pedophiles are equivalent stereotype will recognize an indirect reference. > There are lots of things Baha'is think are evil based on the sole fact that > they are prohibited in the Kitab-I-Aqdas. There are obviously evil things > prohibited in there like slavery, murder, theft, arson, etc. I would need to > lookup the Wikipedia page on Baha'i laws to remember other prohibited things. > So out of all the things in the Aqdas that are prohibited, what do you think > ate evil in themselves? > > Back to the Political Compass four square of Authoritarian versus Libertarian > and Left versus Right, the quadrants have various strengths in various time > and places. Generally whenever one quadrant gains powers and upsets the other > three, the other other form an impromptu alliance to bring down that > quadrant. > > Back to Aeons. The Aeon of Isis represented materialism. The Aeon of Osiris > represented paternalism. The Aeon of Horus represent individualism. I'm happy > I live after rather than before 1904 for this very reason. > > Also, I find your description of Administrators to be not consistent with the > facts of how Administrators actually behave. They go and "suggest" how people > should behave and various other things which is either a covert threat or > even sometimes an overt threat of DO WHAT I SAY OR ELSE YOU'LL HAVE YOUR > VOTING RIGHTS REMOVED, DISENROLLED, OR EVEN WORSE. Anyone who has read the > stories of various dis enrolled and ex Baha'is will know how Administrators > actually work. > > Sent from my iPad > > On Apr 17, 2013, at 16:01, Stephen Kent Gray <skg_z...@yahoo.com> wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Interesting, I'm a member of the Libertarian Right myself. Classical >> liberalism, Libertarianism, Minarchism, Anarcho-Capitalism, Laissez-faire, >> etc. >> >> Sounds like the concept of Aeons in Thelema. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeon_(Thelema) >> >> Lots of religious groups have concepts of dispensationalism. >> Examples >> Hare Krishnas and the Age of Bhakti >> Nichiren Buddhists and the Age of the Lotus Sutra >> Discordians and the Age of Eris >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Apr 17, 2013, at 15:25, Don Calkins <don59...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>> on the contrary . . . . >>> >>> Like most Euro-Americans, you believe in some kind of authoritarianism in >>> which those in control pass laws to make people behave according to your >>> standards and then punish people who do not comply. i reject that as an >>> efficient and effective means of administration. >>> >>> Further, I do believe in a form of separation of church and state such that >>> Baha'i law will not be forced on non-Baha'is. >>> >>> What happens when Baha'is "run the world"? First off, I reject the >>> terminology. I don't believe Baha'is will ever "be in charge" in the sense >>> that governments are today. When the Baha'i Commonwealth with the House >>> of Justice at its head comes into being, the entire idea of someone being >>> in charge will be seen as anachronistic. >>> >>> How do I believe the Baha'i administration will "come to power"? By >>> default. It will be recognized as the only effective administrative system >>> that is actually functioning. You think this is impossible? Look at what >>> has happened in parts of the world where the central government has >>> collapsed and fundamentalist Islam has been embraced by the populace, if >>> only temporarily. They were accepted because they provided stability and >>> nobody else could. in a similar manner, parts of northern Italy were ruled >>> by the Communist Party for the the same reason. You may not have liked >>> their philosophy, but there were relatively corruption free. >>> >>> You and I Stephen have extremely different administrative philosophies. >>> Not only am I a Baha'i, but I also have a libertarian left administrative >>> philosophy. There are not very many other Baha'is in that category and >>> even fewer who have given any tho't as to how that philosophy informs the >>> functioning of the Baha'i Administration. >>> >>> According to Baha'u'llah, this is not merely a new Dispensation, but a new >>> age, the Age of Maturity. As such, what we are going thru' is the greatest >>> change to the functioning of human affairs since the mythic "Time of Adam", >>> when the Culture Hero societies replaced the Mother Goddess societies. The >>> Adamic Cycle can be seen as the equivalent of going thru' puberty. We are >>> now embarking on our maturity and it is time for us to grow up and take >>> responsibility for our own affairs instead of waiting for mommy and daddy >>> (kings/gov'ts/administrators) to tell us what to do. Rather, the new >>> purpose of administrators is to remind us, repeatedly and persistently if >>> necessary, what the proper principles should guide us. Shoghi Effendi made >>> reference to this idea many years ago when he told local Assemblies to quit >>> making up rules to enforce on their members. >>> >>> Another point - most leftist activists in the United States are >>> authoritarian, they seek power so they can make other people do things >>> their way. Most leftist activists also define equality in terms of power; >>> that is, a group of people are only equal to the extent they have members >>> who exercise power. That is the reason some people make a big deal out of >>> there not being any women on the House of Justice. It is seen as having >>> for its purpose the exercise of power and if women are not allowed to >>> participate, then they have less power and are, therefore, not quite equal. >>> I reject that entire argument. >>> >>> You may think I have avoided the topic or changed it. i have not. What I >>> have done is shown how your entire argument is irrelevant. >>> >>> Don C >>> >>>> Susan, have you read the earlier e-mail in this thread. Don C thinks >>>> society should have a zero tolerance policy towards non-heterosexuality. >>>> No marriage, no civil unions, no domestic partnership, no adoption, no >>>> parental rights, etc. He was complaining society gives them too many >>>> rights and blames it on secular liberalism. >>> >>> >>> ----------- >>> It doesn't matter whether the sun shines if you never go outside. >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-697850-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
