Re: Evolutionary Teleology
Mike, At 07:36 PM 5/16/2005, you wrote: 1) It is important to understand, as you have stated, that teleological statements about evolution fall outside the domain of science; that is, they are not scientific, but rather statements about science. Or theological statements which deal with issues unavailable to the scientific method. As such, they belong to the fields of theology and/or philosophy. To say that a statement is outside the domain of science (metascientific) is different from saying that it is unscientific Yep. 2) My understanding of Abdu'l-Baha's statements about evolution are that the human soul has always existed since the moment of creation (if there is one). IMO, `Abdu'l-Baha is saying that there was always a being with a soul (somewhere). You are a nominalist, and I am an idealist, so we would probably understand this statement differently; however, I think the nominalist/idealist horse has been beaten enough, so I'll quit now. lol. A Platonic idealist? Some people have been both nominalists and idealists, such as George Berkeley. Regards, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net No, no ... how tempted soever. To nominalism be faithful forever! -- Aleister Crowley, Magick Without Tears __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Evolutionary Teleology
Mark, Perhaps I should say realist, rather than idealist. I use idealist in the sense that Platonic ideas have a real existence somewhere outside of the human mind. Mike Mark A. Foster wrote: You are a nominalist, and I am an idealist, so we would probably understand this statement differently; however, I think the nominalist/idealist horse has been beaten enough, so I'll quit now. lol. A Platonic idealist? Some people have been both nominalists and idealists, such as George Berkeley. Regards, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net No, no ... how tempted soever. To nominalism be faithful forever! -- Aleister Crowley, Magick Without Tears __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- the Moum's (Mike, Dede, Suzanne, Jeff, Kristen) Tipp City, Ohio, USA Visit the Baha'i World web site at www.bahai.org Visit the U.S. Baha'i web site at www.us.bahai.org __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Evolutionary Teleology
Mike, At 04:23 PM 5/17/2005, you wrote: Perhaps I should say realist, rather than idealist. I use idealist in the sense that Platonic ideas have a real existence somewhere outside of the human mind. Yes. Well, Platonic idealism is generally regarded as a category of realism. So is Thomism and (debatably) Aristotelianism. Regards, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net No, no ... how tempted soever. To nominalism be faithful forever! -- Aleister Crowley, Magick Without Tears __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
...a quote taken from a news
The following is a quote taken from a news item... Musab al-Zarqawi: Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and bullets be the only dialogue between us and the worshippers of the cross. Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular Quranic text being referenced in this statement ? With appreciation... Sandra __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Erotic Imagery In the Allegorical Writings of Baha'u'llah
http://bahai-library.com/unpubl.articles/erotic.allegory.html I just thought this was an interesting paper given some recent discussions in the forum. -Gilberto Erotic Imagery In the Allegorical Writings of Baha'u'llah by John Walbridge In the Qur'an the blacked-eyed maidens (Arab., Pers.: hur`in, hence the English houris) are the beautiful white-skinned, dark-eyed virgins destined for the believers in Paradise. The Islamic tradition followed the Qur'an in classing them among the delights enjoyed by the believers in Paradise, whether taken symbolically or with literalist carnality. Though in the writings of Baha'u'llah there are isolated references to the maids of heaven serving the believers in the next life (TB:189 (Suriy-i-Vafa, 23), almost always they are symbols of the inaccessible holiness of God. They are behind the veil of concealment (GWB:153) in their celestial chambers (GWB:69). It is THE Maiden (huriyyih), however, that plays the most important role in Baha'u'llah's writings, particularly in the visionary allegorical writings of the Baghdad period such as the Tablet of the Maiden, the Ode of the Dove, the Deathless Youth, the Maids of Wonder, the Holy Mariner, and other similar tablets. [ed. note: some of these tabletss can be found in provisional translation. -J.W.] In these tablets the image of the unveiling of the bride symbolizes the joyfulness of Baha'u'llah's spiritual experience. In some of these tablets Baha'u'llah weaves a spell of sexual yearning, drawing the reader into the intensity of His spiritual experience, only to shatter the atmosphere with haunting images of betrayal, heartbreak, and death. The Maiden Revealed Baha'u'llah states that while He was in the dungeon of the Siyah-Chal in 1852-53, He had a vision of a Maiden: (Suratu'l-Haykal, in GPB:101-2). While engulfed in tribulations, I heard a most wondrous, a most sweet voice, calling above My head. Turning My face, I beheld a Maiden--the embodiment of the remembrance of the name of my Lord--suspended in the air before Me. So rejoiced was she in her very soul that her countenance shone with the ornament of the good-pleasure of God, and her cheeks glowed with the brightness of the all-Merciful. Betwixt earth and heaven she was raising a call which captivated the hearts and minds of men. She was imparting to both My inward and outward being tidings which rejoiced my soul, and the souls of God's honored servants. Pointing with her finger unto My head, she addressed all who are in heaven and all who are on earth, saying: By God! This is the Best-Beloved of the worlds, and yet ye comprehend not. This is the Beauty of God amongst you, and the power of His sovereignty within you, could ye but understand. This is the Mystery of God and His treasure, the Cause of God and His Glory unto all who are in the kingdoms of Revelation and of creation, if ye be of them that perceive. The Maiden thereafter appears as the personification of the spirit of God. In these works the Maiden's emergence from her hidden chamber symbolizes the appearance of Baha'u'llah's revelation in the world, and her afflictions mirror Baha'u'llah's. In the Surah of the Bayan Baha'u'llah identifies with Himself a passage in the Qayyumu'l-Asma in which the Bab had referred to the Maid of Heaven begotten by the Spirit of Baha (Suratu'l-Bayan, cited in GWB:129. Qayyumu'l-Asma, ch. 29, in SWB:54). `Abdu'l-Baha identifies the Maiden with the New Jerusalem (SWAB:3). Shoghi Effendi identifies her with the Most Great Spirit, symbolized . . . by the Sacred Fire, the Burning Bush, the Dove, and the Angel Gabriel (GPB:101). The Maiden in Love The mystic and wondrous Bride, hidden ere this beneath the veiling of utterance (bayan), hath now, by the grace of God and His divine favor, been made manifest even as the resplendent light shed by the beauty of the Beloved. (Pers. HW 83) In His allegories depicting the coming of revelation, Baha'u'llah turns to the image of the bride. In the Middle East the bride is brought veiled to her husband amidst great excitement and commotion. When she is alone with him, he lifts her veil and looks upon the beauty of his bride for the first time. The bride too, in this culture where arranged marriages are the norm, now may freely behold her husband. Baha'u'llah expresses His spiritual joy with such imagery. A particularly fine example is the Tablet of the Deathless Youth (Ghulam al-Khuld), composed in honor of the anniversary of the Declaration of the Bab. The Arabic portion of this tablet is written in rhymed prose, an Arabic literary form that uses irregular rhyme and rhythm and occupies a place between poetry and prose. Like some other tablets of this period, notably the Holy Mariner, short verses alternate with refrains. The tablet concludes with a section in formal Persian prose. The tablet begins with the announcement that it is in commemoration of what hath been made manifest in the year
RE: ...a quote taken from a news
Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular Quranic text being referenced in this statement? Dear Sandra, I presume you are pulling Gilberto's leg? As you know there are no bullets in the Qur'an. ;-} warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ...a quote taken from a news
On 5/17/05, Sandra Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The following is a quote taken from a news item... Musab al-Zarqawi: Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and bullets be the only dialogue between us and the worshippers of the cross. Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular Quranic text being referenced in this statement ? Why would you assume that the Quran actually supports anything like that? Peace Gilberto pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Erotic Imagery In the Allegorical Writings of Baha'u'llah
Dear Gilberto, In future for such long articles it would probably be better to provide a URL than post the whole thing. Terry Culhane has done a lot of work on notion of the Divine Feminine in the Baha'i Writings. He has a book out now entitled I Beheld a Maiden. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ...a quote taken from a news,
Dear Gilberto, No assumption on my part... I assure you. My error is asuming that because he said Our Sunni faith... etc. the belief would have some basis in the Quran. And, if I remember correctly you are Sunni ... obviously a reliable source of information. If there is no basis for this stipulation in the Quran perhaps you could shed some light on how this belief could have become distorted - from what source?). I would also welcome comments from anyone-else. I didn't intentionally single you out Gilberto, I simply thought you were possibly the most knowledgible; having a Sunni perspective. Unfortunately, I'm probably in the (US) ignorant majority concerning the branches of Islam. Although I do think the citizen on the street is beginning to realize that not all Muslims follow the same teachings. lovingly, Sandra The following is a quote taken from a news item... Musab al-Zarqawi: Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and bullets be the only dialogue between us and the worshippers of the cross. Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular Quranic text being referenced in this statement ? Why would you assume that the Quran actually supports anything like that? Peace Gilberto pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ...a quote taken from a news,
I guess I would take with a great deal of salt the claim of someone like that to speak for all sunnis. (Especially since he doesn't speak for me). I tend to view this sort of conflict through a political lens before seeing it as a religious issue. Analogous to the Troubles of Northern Ireland. Which was really more about land and politics than Catholics and Protestants. But anyway, to try to answer the specific question, the Quran says things like: 5:82 you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly. And elsewhere the Quran explicitly gives Muslims permission to eat with Jews and Christians (which implies sociability) and even limited inter-marriage. So the idea that the Quran asserts that the only dialogue possible the sword and the bullet is really silly to me. If there is alot of hate and animosity from Muslims in the Middle East directed towards Christians its not because of what Muslims are reading in the Quran, its because of what Muslims are reading in the newspaper (or seeing for themselves in their own countries). Peace Gilberto On 5/17/05, Sandra Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Gilberto, No assumption on my part... I assure you. My error is asuming that because he said Our Sunni faith... etc. the belief would have some basis in the Quran. And, if I remember correctly you are Sunni ... obviously a reliable source of information. If there is no basis for this stipulation in the Quran perhaps you could shed some light on how this belief could have become distorted - from what source?). I would also welcome comments from anyone-else. I didn't intentionally single you out Gilberto, I simply thought you were possibly the most knowledgible; having a Sunni perspective. Unfortunately, I'm probably in the (US) ignorant majority concerning the branches of Islam. Although I do think the citizen on the street is beginning to realize that not all Muslims follow the same teachings. lovingly, Sandra The following is a quote taken from a news item... Musab al-Zarqawi: Our Sunni faith stipulates that the sword and bullets be the only dialogue between us and the worshippers of the cross. Could someone, perhaps Gilberto, tell me the particular Quranic text being referenced in this statement ? Why would you assume that the Quran actually supports anything like that? Peace Gilberto pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- pharaoh is just a leaf on a burning bush __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Evolutionary Teleology
IMO, `Abdu'l-Baha is saying that there was always a being with a soul (somewhere). Mark, I take it even further than this in that the human soul existed in the plan of God, but was not necessarily somewhere, but sometime. Patti __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Evolutionary Teleology
Marleen, At 05:53 PM 5/17/2005, you wrote: Dear Mark, can you please provide page numbers in parentheses of SAQ related to your statements so I can better understand what passages in SAQ support your argument? That will be in the revised paper. Right now, I am recovering from the academic year. ;-) I just turned in my final grades this afternoon. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net ... since [a] word is said to be common, it can be called a universal - William of Ockham, Summa Logicae, Part I __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: (6) ONE COMMON FAITH - Dominus Iesus, side-by-side common study
I was struck by these parts from the Letter of the Supreme Body to the World's Religious Leaders: "Alas, it is clear that these [interfaith] initiatives lack both intellectual coherence and spiritual commitment. In contrast to the processes of unification that are transforming the rest of humanitys social relationships, the suggestion that all of the worlds great religions are equally valid in nature and origin is stubbornly resisted by entrenched patterns of sectarian thought... "So fundamental a reorientation religious leadership appears, for the most part, unable to undertake. Other segments of society embrace the implications of the oneness of humankind, not only as the inevitable next step in the advancement of civilization, but as the fulfilment of lesser identities of every kind that our race brings to this critical moment in our collective history. Yet, the greater part of organized religion stands paralyzed at the threshold of the future, gripped in those very dogmas and claims of privileged access to truth that have been responsible for creating some of the most bitter conflicts dividing the earths inhabitants... "The consequences, in terms of human well-being, have been ruinous." In this light, I can not believe that all is well with the orientation of the Roman Catholic Church in its "interfaith" efforts;I really can not. Barmak Barmak Kusha [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This message comes to you from the history tarikh-list No forwarding allowed Dear Friends, I apologize for the delay. This is the 6th and final installment of "One Common Faith," from the Baha'i World Center. ~Allah'uAbha~ barmak One Common Faith , cont'd 54The power through which these goals will be progressively realized is that of unity. Although to Bahá'ís the most obvious of truths, its implications for the current crisis of civilization appear to escape most contemporary discourse. Few will disagree that the universal disease sapping the health of the body of humankind is that of disunity. Its manifestations everywhere cripple political will, debilitate the collective urge to change, and poison national and religious relationships. How strange, then, that unity is regarded as a goal to be attained, if at all, in a distant future, after a host of disorders in social, political, economic and moral life have been addressed and somehow or other resolved. Yet the latter are essentially symptoms and side effects of the problem, not its root cause. Why has so fundamental an inversion of reality come to be widely accepted? The answer is presumably because the achievement of genuine uni! t y of mind and heart among peoples whose experiences are deeply at variance is thought to be entirely beyond the capacity of society's existing institutions. While this tacit admission is a welcome advance over the understanding of processes of social evolution that prevailed a few decades ago, it is of limited practical assistance in responding to the challenge. ... __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Evolutionary Teleology
Patti, At 09:24 PM 5/17/2005, you wrote: I take it even further than this in that the human soul existed in the plan of God, but was not necessarily somewhere, but sometime. It is also possible that He was not restricting beings with souls to this planet, but I am just speculating. Regards, Mark A. Foster Portal: http://markfoster.net No, no ... how tempted soever. To nominalism be faithful forever! -- Aleister Crowley, Magick Without Tears __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: ...a quote taken from a news,
Gilberto wrote: And elsewhere the Quran explicitly gives Muslims permission to eat with Jews and Christians (which implies sociability) and even limited inter-marriage. So the idea that the Quran asserts that the only dialogue possible the sword and the bullet is really silly to me. Gilberto, would you mind letting us know where the Quran says this, please? If there is alot of hate and animosity from Muslims in the Middle East directed towards Christians its not because of what Muslims are reading in the Quran, its because of what Muslims are reading in the newspaper (or seeing for themselves in their own countries). Granted. Dave Lambert __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
