RE: [digitalradio] PSK63 activity!
I tried some PSK63 yesterday, and I am not impressed! I am an avid RTTY contester, and in my opinion PSK63 will NEVER replace RTTY! Bear in mind that I am WAY south of the majority of the stations, so all signals are relatively weak compared to EU/NA stations. I have very little difficulty working weak stations on RTTY, with a fairly simple station. I run a Kenwood TS-870S with TL-922 amplifier, running 400W (max legal power here in ZS-land) into a Cushcraft A3S up at about 9m (wire dipole on 40 at about same height). I run FSK RTTY, using either a 500Hz or 250Hz filter, depending on situations. With PSK63, signals were WAY down. It does not handle QSB very well at all, and the slightest QRM knocks it out altogether. Nowhere near as robust as RTTY, and it seems as if people tend to run low power with PSK63 heard a few RTTY signals around as well yesterday, and they were MUCH stronger than the PSK63 stations! Only heard 3 US stations on 20m PSK63 (W9HLY, K7RE and N1DQ) nothing heard at all on either 40 or 20. The two Moroccan stations CN8KD and CN8YZ were by far the strongest stations heard. In general the EU stations were quite weak. PSK63 might be OK when signals are strong and solid, but it doesnt cut it when you are a distance away from the mainstream path. Not even a patch on RTTY!!! My opinion, based on experiences yesterday! 73 de Barry Murrell ZS2EZ (EX ZR2DX / ZR6DXB) KF26TA - Port Elizabeth,South Africa Member : PEARS, SARL, ARRL, SA AMSAT _ From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of kh6ty Sent: 19 November 2007 04:00 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Cc: Howard Teller Subject: Re: [digitalradio] PSK63 activity! Because it does a better job than rtty (less fills) in less space. If everyone used PSK63 instead of RTTY, there would not be so many complaints by non-contesters about having so little space to use during contests. A PSK63 stations signal, operated linearly, takes up only 1/5 the space of a RTTY signal. Isn't accomplishing the same job in less bandwidth what we should all be trying to do in an ever more crowded world? It is not like adding CW to a phone contest because both RTTY and PSK63 are keyboard modes. Phone and CW are not. 73, Skip KH6TY - Original Message - From: John Becker, WØJAB [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:w0jab%40big-river.net net To: digitalradio@ mailto:digitalradio%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [digitalradio] PSK63 activity! At 07:10 PM 11/18/2007, you wrote: Yes, it is very gratifying to see it finally take off a little. Now, if we can only convince the RTTY contest sponsers to specifically include and mention PSK63, Skip with all due respect. why ? It's not RTTY. Would this not be like adding CW to a side band contest? Or vice verse. John, W0JAB -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1135 - Release Date: 11/16/2007 10:58 PM
Re: [digitalradio] PSK63 activity!
Hi Andy.the only problem was that those of us that usually work WSJT JT65A on 14076 found that we couldnt due to the PSK63 ops on that freq.it was mainly EU stations that were the worst.it would be nice if some ops thought of other users of the band 73 David VK4BDJ Andrew O'Brien wrote: I assume that Skip will be happy. His PSK63 efforts appear to be paying off, the activity in this year's EPSK PSK63 QSO Party was quite high. At one time, I counted 15 simeukatenous QSO's in my 20M waterfall. Again, European activity seemed quite high compared to North American. I saw no Asian or South Pacific stations but did see reports of some ANZAC activity. FYI, here are a few of the stations my antenna captured...(not worked) N3WT United States 14,073.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 18:19 K3UK PSK63 36 K6MKF United States 14,073.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 18:26 K3UK PSK63 34 K7RE United States 14,072.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 18:27 K3UK PSK63 44 K0SZ United States 14,075.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 17:59 K3UK PSK63 50 CT3EE Madeira Island 14,074.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 17:28 K3UK PSK63 50 N5ARA United States 14,072.4 PSK63 2007-18-11 18:58 K3UK PSK63 39 AC5ZS United States 14,073.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:06 K3UK PSK63 12 KF2GQ United States 14,073.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:13 K3UK PSK63 46 W6LED United States 14,075.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 18:30 K3UK PSK63 24 NC5O/QPR/5W United States 14,073.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:19 K3UK PSK63 36 VA7KOJ Canada 14,075.5 PSK63 2007-18-11 18:16 K3UK PSK63 0 J39BS Grenada 14,073.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:12 K3UK PSK63 38 N5PU United States 14,075.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 18:46 K3UK PSK63 51 VE9DX Canada 7,038.8 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:26 K3UK PSK63 56 SP7IIT Poland 7,037.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:27 K3UK PSK63 7 KF3AA United States 7,037.5 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:31 K3UK PSK63 44 S51MA Slovenia 7,037.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:47 K3UK PSK63 6 CT4DK Portugal 7,038.4 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:47 K3UK PSK63 38 AO1OS Spain 7,039.2 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:53 K3UK PSK63 37 OK1VSL Czech Republic 7,038.8 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:47 K3UK PSK63 42 ON8UM Belgium 7,037.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:00 K3UK PSK63 47 CT3 Madeira Island 7,038.8 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:09 K3UK PSK63 38 CN8YZ Morocco 7,038.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:59 K3UK PSK63 43 DK8VQ Germany 7,037.9 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:17 K3UK PSK63 30 CT3BD Madeira Island 7,038.8 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:45 K3UK PSK63 38 G4KMH England 7,038.5 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:19 K3UK PSK63 40 CN8KD Morocco 7,038.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:49 K3UK PSK63 0 OP3A Belgium 7,039.2 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:19 K3UK PSK63 16 WP3UX Puerto Rico 7,036.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 19:58 K3UK PSK63 37 RU3QR European Russia 7,038.5 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:25 K3UK PSK63 44 N9FTC/4 United States 14,074.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:26 K3UK PSK63 40 W5VGR United States 14,074.4 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:28 K3UK PSK63 24 W1MNY United States 14,074.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:28 K3UK PSK63 37 CQ7EPC Portugal 7,036.0 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:35 K3UK PSK63 57 VE9DX Canada 7,037.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:36 K3UK PSK63 53 N3YZ United States 7,036.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:52 K3UK PSK63 54 KA1UJQ United States 7,037.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:39 K3UK PSK63 20 K1YAN United States 7,036.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:01 K3UK PSK63 41 KK5OQ United States 7,036.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:00 K3UK PSK63 37 KA0VXK United States 7,036.5 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:15 K3UK PSK63 54 J69DS St Lucia 7,036.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:17 K3UK PSK63 52 OK1VSL Czech Republic 7,035.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:21 K3UK PSK63 57 EA2VE Spain 7,036.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:37 K3UK PSK63 33 AA6YQ United States 7,037.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:50 K3UK PSK63 50 NC5O/QRP/5W United States 14,074.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:27 K3UK PSK63 46 K6MKF United States 14,073.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:31 K3UK PSK63 38 KK5OQ United States 14,075.2 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:24 K3UK PSK63 27 KI4LRP United States 14,073.4 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:33 K3UK PSK63 51 VA7KOI Canada 14,074.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:47 K3UK PSK63 40 VA7KOJ Canada 14,073.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:28 K3UK PSK63 45 AF5T United States 14,073.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:57 K3UK PSK63 36 KK7UQ United States 14,073.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:59 K3UK PSK63 40 K7RE United States 14,074.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 22:07 K3UK PSK63 58 VE7AXU Canada 14,074.4 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:33 K3UK PSK63 34 W7LD United States 14,073.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:48 K3UK PSK63 50 J39BS Grenada 14,073.5 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:47 K3UK PSK63 42 W6LED United States 14,074.8 PSK63 2007-18-11 20:28 K3UK PSK63 52 AI6O United States 14,073.1 PSK63 2007-18-11 21:45 K3UK PSK63 47 WB9VKZ United States 7,036.8 PSK63 2007-18-11 22:25 K3UK PSK63 53 W4UEF United States 7,038.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 22:34 K3UK PSK63 34 VA7KOJ Canada 7,036.6 PSK63 2007-18-11 22:44 K3UK PSK63 42 KA0VXK United States 7,036.7 PSK63 2007-18-11 22:45 K3UK PSK63 56 EA2VE Spain 7,036.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 22:49 K3UK PSK63 42 IW4EJK Italy 7,038.3 PSK63 2007-18-11 22:54 K3UK PSK63 21 CN8YO Morocco 7,037.8 PSK63 2007-18-11 23:02 K3UK PSK63
[digitalradio] AO-16 soundcard BPSK demodulator
AO-16 soundcard BPSK demodulator Wouter Jan Ubbels PE4WJ has produced a JAVA 1200 bit/s BPSK AX.25 soundcard demodulator for a PC. This is especially useful for the Amateur Radio satellite AO-16. A Beta version of the software can be downloaded from: http://home.casema.nl/b.ubbels/Warbler.htm AO-16 http://www.amsat.org/amsat/sats/n7hpr/ao16.html Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
[digitalradio] New release of MULTIPSK
New release of MULTIPSK Patrick Lindecker F6CTE has made available the latest version of his popular data mode software MULTIPSK 4.5 He writes: The new release of MULTIPSK (4.5), CLOCK (1.7.6) and MULTIDEM (2.1.1) are in my Web site http://f6cte.free.fr/ The main mirror site is Earl's, N8KBR: http://multipsk.eqth.info/index.html (click on United States). Another mirror site is Terry's: http://www.hamshack.co.uk/ Multispk associated to Clock are freeware programs but with functions submitted to a licence (by user key). CLOCK 1.7.6 has now a possibility to directly interface a SdR receiver through the sound card. MULTIDEM 2.1.1 fixes bugs. The main modifications of MULTIPSK 4.5 are the following: 1) Decoding/coding of the DTMF (Dual-tone multi-frequency) mode. This mode is used for telephone (to dial the phone number) but also in VHF and UHF for different uses as, for example, activation of repeaters by radio. It could be used in HF, for radio control of ham radio equipment. Functions of DTMF handling on reception are available for licenced copies only. See specifications further on. 2) New ALE400 mode (ALE in a 400 Hz bandwidth) This ALE system has exactly the same functions as the ones of the 141A of Multipsk except that: • the bandwidth is 400 Hz instead of 2000 Hz as in standard ALE (so ALE400 can be transmitted anywhere where 500 Hz digital modes are authorized), • the modulation speed is 50 bauds instead of 125 bauds and consequently the text throughput are 2.5 slower, • no fix frequency (as in MFSK16...), the automatic tuning being able to be done thanks to the RS/ID transmission, • the signal to noise ratio is 5 dB better: - 9 dB for sounding, AMD messages and Unproto mode, - 11.5 dB (- 13.5 dB with many repetitions) for ARQ FAE. For ARQ FAE, it has been added a compression system using a modified IZ8BLY (Nino) MFSK Varicode. So the ALE400 text throughput is typically 60 wpm (up to 107 wpm in bilateral and 63 characters frames). ARQ FAE covers all ASCII and ANSI characters (8 bits) There is a Word document which goal is to show from Multipsk snapshots how to do the basic operations in ALE and ALE400. This document (1.1 Mo) is available from my site http://f6cte.free.fr/ALE_and_ALE400_easy_with_Multipsk.doc Look also at http://hflink.com/ale400/ which is a specific page for ALE400, with a lot of information. ALE400 frequencies: 1837.0, 3589.0, 7037.5, 10141.5, 14074.0, 14094.0, 18104.5, 21094.0, 24926.0, 28146.0, 50162.5, 144162.5 (AF at 1625 Hz). 3) Direct SdR interface through the sound card It is the best way to do as there is no additional transmission delay. It allows the working in all digital modes. The modulation and demodulation operations of the I/Q signals coming from the sound card are directly done by Multipsk (which plays the role of a SdR program). The bandwidth considered is the USB side, in base band. So there is neither frequency shift nor consideration of the LSB side. After selection, the working is transparent for the user. 4) Rewind function This function makes you able to decode the signal from a point in time located before you click on the waterfall. It is permitted to select a rewind duration from 5 seconds to 3 minutes (from 20 seconds to 3 minutes for only the licenced copies). Powerful computers can take profit of this function, decoding of the rewind period being quick. For information, for all the Multipsk exotic modes (PSKFEC31, PSK10, PSKAM, PSK63F, PSK220F (+DIGISSTV), CCW-FSK, MFSK8, THROBX, DominoF, DominoEX, PAX, CHIP, Voice, Packet 110 bauds...), I propose the QRP frequency: 14075 KHz USB (AF around 1000 Hz), at 17h00 UTC. 73 Patrick Lindecker F6CTE Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
The analogy tying changes in progress to a recreational sport that has the coincidence of relating to one of the changes in the past 2 centuries was a nice touch. However, if there is any practical reason for contesting other than vanity and ego, it would be learning to become better operators. In doing this, we make the best use of spectrum in preparation for serving others as a partial payment for the spectrum that was awarded to us for doing this public service when called upon to do so. But, this debate will rage on for a few more decades, and then over the majority of the licensed hams will be dead from attrition, and it will no longer be a consideration for anecdotal discussion. Wouldn't the energy be better spent trying to capture the interest of younger operators who are savvy in current and emerging technology in order to perpetuate our survival? - - - Or is it better to make cute analogies and watch the average age of the Amateur Radio Operator go higher than the 62 to 65 years old that it already is today? Bottom line, anyway you stack it, any way you try to ignore it is that our inability to progress with the times has left the majority of amateur radio operators well behind the curve as far as technology goes. If the easy way is to continue honoring tradition because that is easier than staying current with technology, then we will get what we are looking for; death of the service by attrition. Hate to be so blunt, but I am sure you know the old analogy about death and taxes. So far, we have been able to avoid taxation on the amateur spectrum. -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Chudek Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:42 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity! --- In digitalradio@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Becker, WØJAB Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:11 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] PSK63 activity! At 08:00 PM 11/18/2007, you wrote: It is not like adding CW to a phone contest because both RTTY and PSK63 are keyboard modes. Phone and CW are not. Well just add the rest of the keyboard modes while your at it... And please make sure you do add both the keyboard mode of Amtor and Pactor. I still fail to see why psk should be added to a RTTY contest. Possibly for the same reason that they started allowing horseless carriages on the same streets as horses. -- Yes, of course the older technology was displaced by the horseless carriage. However, when it comes to contesting, the horse tracks continue to support a sizeable following and they don't mix the two technologies during the races.
Re: [digitalradio] PSK63 activity!
John Becker, WØJAB wrote: Roger regardless of what you think about Amtor and Pactor - both are still doing very well. Other then a hand full of CW and SSB QSO's the log book is full of both Amtor and Pactor 1, 2 and 3. John, W0JAB Incredible. And I am on digital almost every morning and evening, and never hear these ubiquitous signals for the past four years or so. Golly propagation is a funny thing, is it not? Pactor and Amtor are as dead as Julius Caesar as ordinary QSO/keyboard-to-keyboard modes except maybe for a few (read: FEW) afficianados perhaps including you. That's why I finally unhooked my PTC-II modem. That's why most digital ops no longer have a TNC operable in the shack. de Roger W6VZV
RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
This is also rationalization. The ability to provide disaster communications entails many skills. Good contesting is virtually meaningless to that skill set. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:26 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity! However, if there is any practical reason for contesting other than vanity and ego, it would be learning to become better operators. In doing this, we make the best use of spectrum in preparation for serving others as a partial payment for the spectrum that was awarded to us for doing this public service when called upon to do so.
RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
This is also rationalization. The ability to provide disaster communications entails many skills. Good contesting is virtually meaningless to that skill set. Well, I'm not sure I agree with the implied assumption that the only goal of amateur radio is the ability to provide disaster communications... however, in my experience, contesting DOES help to sharpen one's skills and might even help develop skills useful in disaster communications: The ability to operate well (tune and isolate signals, operate one's equipment, select and fire the right macro) under pressure of time and with less sleep than one is used to is certainly a useful skill to develop. You have to move quickly, confidently, and with agility. de Peter K1PGV
Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
Maybe the FCC rules that say the minimum power needed for the communication should be used also say that the minimum bandwidth needed for the communication should be used! Of course, there is more to it than just that, as multi-tone modes, such as MFSK16 or Olivia, etc, use more bandwidth in order to better handle fading (and atmospheric doppler), but with an increased latency that make them impractical for RTTY-type contesting with fast exchanges. PSK63 is a reasonable compromise, and can be run at 1500 watts as well as at 20 watts, as long as the amplification is kept linear, and the equipment can handle a 90% duty cycle. The rationale for this is quite basic. For example, the phone bands have just been expanded to accomodate more phone operators, at the expense of CW and digital operating space. Therefore, if the minimum bandwidth for the communication is used (by using PSK63 instead of RTTY, for example), there will more room for CW and other digital modes. In the case of RTTY, the communication using PSK63 is very, very, similar to using RTTY on a computer, except that PSK63 uses only about 1/5 the space of RTTY. The speed of PSK63 is 100 wpm vs RTTY of generally 60 wpm, but the extra speed is needed to compensate for the preamble and postamble of the mode, so that during contest exchanges, the total exchange and turnover times are roughly the same. PSK63 supports both upper and lower case, but RTTY only supports upper case. However, PSK63 can also be typed and sent in all upper case if desired. The comparison between RTTY and other digital modes is not nearly as close as the comparison between RTTY and PSK63, so that supports the possiblity that PSK63 can easily replace RTTY from a communication standpoint, and do it in less bandwidth with a smaller error rate (due the to quicker synchronization of PSK63), and with less power for the same distance (due to the more narrow bandwidth and therefore better S/N). The main caveat is that RTTY is better than PSK63 under multipath or atmosphic doppler conditions. For these conditions, modes like Olivia and MFSK16 are more the equal of RTTY, or even better. With a properly designed receiver (especially one that reduces AGC capture by adjacent signals), more signals in the passband can be observed at one time with PSK63 than with RTTY. I started with RTTY in 1956 with a Model 26 green-key machine, upgraded to a Model 15 and later to a Model 19 with reperf, and enjoyed RTTY immensely. I still miss the smell of the machine oil and the newsroom clatter of the Model 15, and that is still available to those who have to have it, but for the purpose of pure RTTY-type communication (and constests), the benefits of PSK63 generally outweigh the benefits of RTTY, and would free up more space for non-contesters during contests if RTTY were totally replaced by PSK63. This is why I think there should be more encouragement to use PSK63 for contests, including RTTY contests. 73, Skip KH6TY - Original Message - From: Rud Merriam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity! This is also rationalization. The ability to provide disaster communications entails many skills. Good contesting is virtually meaningless to that skill set. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 6:26 AM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity! However, if there is any practical reason for contesting other than vanity and ego, it would be learning to become better operators. In doing this, we make the best use of spectrum in preparation for serving others as a partial payment for the spectrum that was awarded to us for doing this public service when called upon to do so. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1139 - Release Date: 11/19/2007 12:35 PM
Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
Rud, I am surprised you would make such a statement since the skills of being able to hear properly and transfer that skill to correctly copy and record the messages is exactly the same skill needed as a contester. You must have a high level of accuracy in each activity to do well. Most contesters also tend to also be fairly conversant with the technical side of amateur radio, typically well above the average ham participating in emergency communications. They are much more knowledgeable about antennas, rigs, interconnections, efficiency, etc. Many (most?) of the operators involved in emergency communications tend to be newer Technician class licensees with very limited experience. In fact, this is so pronounced that leadership here in our Section tends to focus on technologies that dovetail with those kinds of limitations. 73, Rick, KV9U Rud Merriam wrote: This is also rationalization. The ability to provide disaster communications entails many skills. Good contesting is virtually meaningless to that skill set. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net
Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
Skip you points are well taken. My point was not to mix another mode in with a RTTY contest. If you really miss that smell of the machine oil and the newsroom clatter stop by some time. Still doing RTTY with a pair of 28's. One ASR and one KSR. John, W0JAB in the center of flyover country At 12:31 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote: Maybe the FCC rules that say the minimum power needed for the communication should be used also say that the minimum bandwidth needed for the communication should be used! Of course, there is more to it than just that, as multi-tone modes, such as MFSK16 or Olivia, etc, use more bandwidth in order to better handle fading (and atmospheric doppler), but with an increased latency that make them impractical for RTTY-type contesting with fast exchanges. PSK63 is a reasonable compromise, and can be run at 1500 watts as well as at 20 watts, as long as the amplification is kept linear, and the equipment can handle a 90% duty cycle. The rationale for this is quite basic. For example, the phone bands have just been expanded to accomodate more phone operators, at the expense of CW and digital operating space. Therefore, if the minimum bandwidth for the communication is used (by using PSK63 instead of RTTY, for example), there will more room for CW and other digital modes. In the case of RTTY, the communication using PSK63 is very, very, similar to using RTTY on a computer, except that PSK63 uses only about 1/5 the space of RTTY. The speed of PSK63 is 100 wpm vs RTTY of generally 60 wpm, but the extra speed is needed to compensate for the preamble and postamble of the mode, so that during contest exchanges, the total exchange and turnover times are roughly the same. PSK63 supports both upper and lower case, but RTTY only supports upper case. However, PSK63 can also be typed and sent in all upper case if desired. The comparison between RTTY and other digital modes is not nearly as close as the comparison between RTTY and PSK63, so that supports the possiblity that PSK63 can easily replace RTTY from a communication standpoint, and do it in less bandwidth with a smaller error rate (due the to quicker synchronization of PSK63), and with less power for the same distance (due to the more narrow bandwidth and therefore better S/N). The main caveat is that RTTY is better than PSK63 under multipath or atmosphic doppler conditions. For these conditions, modes like Olivia and MFSK16 are more the equal of RTTY, or even better. With a properly designed receiver (especially one that reduces AGC capture by adjacent signals), more signals in the passband can be observed at one time with PSK63 than with RTTY. I started with RTTY in 1956 with a Model 26 green-key machine, upgraded to a Model 15 and later to a Model 19 with reperf, and enjoyed RTTY immensely. I still miss the smell of the machine oil and the newsroom clatter of the Model 15, and that is still available to those who have to have it, but for the purpose of pure RTTY-type communication (and constests), the benefits of PSK63 generally outweigh the benefits of RTTY, and would free up more space for non-contesters during contests if RTTY were totally replaced by PSK63. This is why I think there should be more encouragement to use PSK63 for contests, including RTTY contests. 73, Skip KH6TY
RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
How much skill is needed to recognize the few symbols transferred during a contest exchange? Does that translate to general transfer of information? Contesters specialize and tune their equipment. Does that translate into the ability to quickly rig a dipole at an emergency center? The former EC for my county is a contester. He recognizes the difference in skills. I tried to communicate on HF with him a few weeks ago. I had just got my fence dipole antenna installed. He and I could not communicate. I was able to communicate with others in the county. His contesting setup just went right over my head since it was focused for DX. He probably would have done better with his backup antenna stapled to the rafters in his attic. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 1:07 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity! Rud, I am surprised you would make such a statement since the skills of being able to hear properly and transfer that skill to correctly copy and record the messages is exactly the same skill needed as a contester. You must have a high level of accuracy in each activity to do well. Most contesters also tend to also be fairly conversant with the technical side of amateur radio, typically well above the average ham participating in emergency communications. They are much more knowledgeable about antennas, rigs, interconnections, efficiency, etc. Many (most?) of the operators involved in emergency communications tend to be newer Technician class licensees with very limited experience. In fact, this is so pronounced that leadership here in our Section tends to focus on technologies that dovetail with those kinds of limitations. 73, Rick, KV9U Rud Merriam wrote: This is also rationalization. The ability to provide disaster communications entails many skills. Good contesting is virtually meaningless to that skill set. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity!
Hi Rud, Operating skill may not be the prime consideration. Contesters also strive for the most effective stations in order to try and win. For DX contests, this truly may mean low angles of radiation, but for SS contests, the avid contester may utilize several antennas with different angles or radiation, such as both dipoles and verticals, and use both in a contest. In fact, a group from here just make a Dxpedition to the Bahamas and brought back pictures of both horizontal and vertical antennas. I myself have both verticals and dipoles (no HF beams) at my own QTH, depending on where I want to operate. In any case, as you know, emergency communications utilizes people at fixed locations as well as those in an emergency center or disaster site. In general, the ARRL Field Day is considered useful for setting up equipment in temporary locations and proving out the equipment as it might be used in an emergency. Although not described as a contest, it is widely considered to be one, and points and multipliers are earned for each successful QSO, just as in contests. I think any activity that prepares an operator or station to assist in emergency communications is worthwhile and includes preparation for contests as well as proving out equipment setups during contests. Operating skills for contests are definitely different from those need for emergency communications, though. 73, Skip KH6TY - Original Message - From: Rud Merriam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 2:19 PM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity! How much skill is needed to recognize the few symbols transferred during a contest exchange? Does that translate to general transfer of information? Contesters specialize and tune their equipment. Does that translate into the ability to quickly rig a dipole at an emergency center? The former EC for my county is a contester. He recognizes the difference in skills. I tried to communicate on HF with him a few weeks ago. I had just got my fence dipole antenna installed. He and I could not communicate. I was able to communicate with others in the county. His contesting setup just went right over my head since it was focused for DX. He probably would have done better with his backup antenna stapled to the rafters in his attic. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net -Original Message- From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 1:07 PM To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [digitalradio] Re: PSK63 activity! Rud, I am surprised you would make such a statement since the skills of being able to hear properly and transfer that skill to correctly copy and record the messages is exactly the same skill needed as a contester. You must have a high level of accuracy in each activity to do well. Most contesters also tend to also be fairly conversant with the technical side of amateur radio, typically well above the average ham participating in emergency communications. They are much more knowledgeable about antennas, rigs, interconnections, efficiency, etc. Many (most?) of the operators involved in emergency communications tend to be newer Technician class licensees with very limited experience. In fact, this is so pronounced that leadership here in our Section tends to focus on technologies that dovetail with those kinds of limitations. 73, Rick, KV9U Rud Merriam wrote: This is also rationalization. The ability to provide disaster communications entails many skills. Good contesting is virtually meaningless to that skill set. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php Yahoo! Groups Links No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.0/1139 - Release Date: 11/19/2007 12:35 PM
[digitalradio] Emergency skills
Whether you are an accomplished contester or traffic handler, it comes down to the same skill set of being able to get information from one point to another. The contester usually does this with rapid exchanges of minimal information, but requires considerable skill in hearing weak signals in the noise and pulling them out. And doing it with consistent accuracy if they are a successful contester. The traffic handler rarely has this kind of challenge but it can happen with poor band conditions. Most traffic handling/emergency work consists of being passive rather than active but then when the message is being sent or received, requires accuracy for a much longer exchange than a contester. But the skill set is really about the same because once you handle many words or callsigns, you get a lot of practice copying correctly. My experience with new or inexperienced hams has been shockingly poor with their inability to copy basic messages with solid and clear signals. In terms of equipment, there is no question at all that a contester will do well with emergency lashups. We see this every time at Field Day. The less experienced hams are not sure of what to do. We don't have many hams in our county with actual traffic experience other than myself. But the active contesters/DXers are able to easily set up antennas and equipment in short order. The home QTH contesting antennas are not necessarily relevant for local HF work, but could be useful for getting out of an area under some conditions. In most cases though, you don't communicate through the contester's station if you are setting up for emergency locations. My wife pointed out to me a few minutes ago that it has consistently been the experienced contesting/DXing type hams who are the ones who tend to be much more efficient in handling traffic. Many of the newer and less experienced hams, and rag chewer types, such as casual operators, tend to be much less efficient in their operation, with wordy and rambling conversations rather than the more appropriate response you would prefer to see. 73, Rick, KV9U Rud Merriam wrote: How much skill is needed to recognize the few symbols transferred during a contest exchange? Does that translate to general transfer of information? Contesters specialize and tune their equipment. Does that translate into the ability to quickly rig a dipole at an emergency center? The former EC for my county is a contester. He recognizes the difference in skills. I tried to communicate on HF with him a few weeks ago. I had just got my fence dipole antenna installed. He and I could not communicate. I was able to communicate with others in the county. His contesting setup just went right over my head since it was focused for DX. He probably would have done better with his backup antenna stapled to the rafters in his attic. Rud Merriam K5RUD ARES AEC Montgomery County, TX http://TheHamNetwork.net
Re: [digitalradio] PSK63 activity!
I have tried PSK31 at Field Day and found it to be very poor for a contesting mode. PSK63 is faster, but it is also even less sensitive than PSK31. A while back, I tried PSK63 recently as a comparison to PSK31 and it performed very poorly and we were forced to chose other modes, e.g., MFSK16. Now I would recommend FAE 400, but it only became available in the past few months. This would be for just casual contacts, not for contesting. When RTTY is done by highly competitive stations, they may be using dedicated hardware along with higher end rigs that operate in FSK mode. Even though AFSK, if set up properly, will appear the same on the receiving end, the FSK operators tend to have optimized rigs, often with special built-in filters that allow RTTY to work under some really difficult conditions that may be impossible with PSK modes. Some rigs even have special RTTY filters that are optimized for 170 Hz shift with a dual bump shape factor. I have a few friends who are avid RTTY and digital experimenters and as recent as a week ago happened to discuss this very subject with a retired MD/EE who likes to play with this stuff and he admits that in most cases you will find a significant edge when operating FSK with these optimized modes compared to using AFSK with a sound card. Here is the bottom line. As stations try PSK63 or any other mode in a contest, they will quickly learn whether or not the mode is going to outperform old fashioned RTTY. If it can, they will move toward these newer modes. But truthfully, it does not look good for the new modes, other than the benefit to other hams to have narrower contesting modes which take up less space. What has been happening with the Contestia and RTTY-M modes that were specifically designed for contesting? There does not seem to be much momentum in their direction. 73, Rick, KV9U Barry Murrell wrote: I tried some PSK63 yesterday, and I am not impressed! I am an avid RTTY contester, and in my opinion PSK63 will NEVER replace RTTY! Bear in mind that I am WAY south of the majority of the stations, so all signals are relatively weak compared to EU/NA stations. I have very little difficulty working weak stations on RTTY, with a fairly simple station. I run a Kenwood TS-870S with TL-922 amplifier, running 400W (max legal power here in ZS-land) into a Cushcraft A3S up at about 9m (wire dipole on 40 at about same height). I run FSK RTTY, using either a 500Hz or 250Hz filter, depending on situations. With PSK63, signals were WAY down. It does not handle QSB very well at all, and the slightest QRM knocks it out altogether. Nowhere near as robust as RTTY, and it seems as if people tend to run low power with PSK63 – heard a few RTTY signals around as well yesterday, and they were MUCH stronger than the PSK63 stations! Only heard 3 US stations on 20m PSK63 (W9HLY, K7RE and N1DQ) – nothing heard at all on either 40 or 20. The two Moroccan stations – CN8KD and CN8YZ – were by far the strongest stations heard. In general the EU stations were quite weak. PSK63 might be OK when signals are strong and solid, but it doesn’t cut it when you are a distance away from the mainstream path. Not even a patch on RTTY!!! My opinion, based on experiences yesterday! 73 de Barry Murrell ZS2EZ (EX ZR2DX / ZR6DXB) KF26TA - Port Elizabeth,South Africa Member : PEARS, SARL, ARRL, SA AMSAT Announce your digital presence via our Interactive Sked Page at http://www.obriensweb.com/drsked/drsked.php Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/digitalradio/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [digitalradio] I Apologize
not if there is a CQ contester every 1kz running 1500 watts (or more) screaming CQ CONTEST every 10 seconds. You can't pick a secondary freq, if there are none empty. And its getting so someone has a contest everyother week end. Thank God for week days..!! Garrett / AA0OI - Original Message From: Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:18:45 AM Subject: RE: [digitalradio] I Apologize I suppose if the pictures had to get through because of an emergency, the VFO could have been used as per Hollingsworth’s comments @ Dayton . Maybe a secondary frequency should be selected for the net or a VFO procedure since none of us “own” a frequency no matter how long we may have been using it. Communications can always go on, if we want to! William A. Collister N7MOG From: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:digitalradi [EMAIL PROTECTED] com] On Behalf Of aa0oi Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 7:34 AM To: digitalradio@ yahoogroups. com Subject: [digitalradio] I Apologize To the great group of Digital Pic Guys that we had on 7.178 on Sat. I apologize for not being able to have a net this Sunday morning. I apologize the the arrogant and rude hams that do contesting and don't listen to a freq before transmitting, and do splits without listening and move within 1 kc with 1500 watts. I apologize for CQ mag. for having such a contest and making any type of communications (other than thier contest) impossible. (and for making it three days long!) I apologize to hams in other countries for trashing ALL the US freqs with CQ Contest (etc) for 3 days. I apologize for the FCC for allowing this deliberate type of interference to go on and continue on ALL SSB freqs. (give them 100kc on each band and let them have at it) I hope to see you all on next Saturday 8am on 7.178 for more pictures and conversation. (and Sunday) Garrett/ AA0OI Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/sports;_ylt=At9_qDKvtAbMuh1G1SQtBI7ntAcJ
Re: [digitalradio] I Apologize
Long long time ago (1969) a friend (now SK) who help me become a ham told me that contest weed out the weak. I for one love contest. Be it SSB CW or RTTY. It's a bit like what they say about TV. If you don't like what you are watching change the channel. Same holds true ham radio. All 6 of my HF rigs has a OFF switch. John, W0JAB At 06:45 PM 11/19/2007, you wrote: not if there is a CQ contester every 1kz running 1500 watts (or more) screaming CQ CONTEST every 10 seconds. You can't pick a secondary freq, if there are none empty. And its getting so someone has a contest everyother week end. Thank God for week days..!! Garrett / AA0OI15c19b3e.jpg inline: 15c19b3e.jpg
[digitalradio] Canadian digital users
Hi Andy and company interested in other VE's who are into the digital modes. Any from VE4 , VE5,VE6, or VE7 especially? John VE5MU
[digitalradio] Sound card install problem
I have been having a couple of small but odd-ball issues with Multipsk and Microkeyer and thought I would try another sound card , just for the heck of it. I disabled my on-board sound card and installed a Creative Audigy PCI card. I have installed many soundcards over the years but ran in to an basic problem with the latest card. When I attempt the software install from the supplied CD, it eventually asks me to insert the XP HE path that contains service pack 2. I have no CD for my OS, the PC came with XP HE already installed . The install attempt fails the first time, when I try it a second time the XP service pack question does not come up and I get a installed successfully message. After a reboot, the new hardware detected comes up, the soundcard drivers are not installed successfully. I have been to busy at the office to get home in time to call Creative's help line. Anyone have any ideas how I get the service pack 2 stuff ? Maybe it is on my HD somewhere ? Andy K3UK
[digitalradio] N1ESE - TARA's NEW Skirmish Manager...
Greeting's: On behalf of TARA (Troy Amateur Radio Association) of Troy, New York I'm proud to announce that JOHN T CROTEAU, of Manchester, NH and better known as JT - N1ESE will be taking over the reighns of our Digital Prefix Contest - the TARA Skirmish effective immediately. We've be a long time looking for a candidate that we felt could take this contest to a higher level of excitement/participation and we're very confident that we now have the right person in charge. I hope all of our friends/participants of TARA's Four Season's Contesting will welcome JT with open arms and give him your support. I know over the coming month's he will be bringing you news of this contest and he'll be depending on getting feed back from each of you on how we can make this contest better. It's never an easy job being a manager of any of these contests, but if you get a lot of feed back and assistance from the participants it makes the job a heck of a lot easier. Please, do your best to help him out. Oh yeahone more thing. Keep in mind that he's never done this before as far as I'm aware of. So, it's going to take a little while for him to get caught up with things. Okay, if you'd like to drop JT - N1ESE an e-mail you can send them to one of the following: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) Thank You Bill Eddy, NY2U President of TARA ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
RE: [digitalradio] Sound card install problem
If you turn Automatic Updates on, it should load in less than a day or so of leaving your computer on. Or you could go to Microsoft Update and let it install from there. After that, I would go to the sound card web site and download the latest driver . . . should work. Rick - KH2DF _ From: digitalradio@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew O'Brien Sent: Monday, November 19, 2007 9:00 PM To: DIGITALRADIO Subject: [digitalradio] Sound card install problem I have been having a couple of small but odd-ball issues with Multipsk and Microkeyer and thought I would try another sound card , just for the heck of it. I disabled my on-board sound card and installed a Creative Audigy PCI card. I have installed many soundcards over the years but ran in to an basic problem with the latest card. When I attempt the software install from the supplied CD, it eventually asks me to insert the XP HE path that contains service pack 2. I have no CD for my OS, the PC came with XP HE already installed . The install attempt fails the first time, when I try it a second time the XP service pack question does not come up and I get a installed successfully message. After a reboot, the new hardware detected comes up, the soundcard drivers are not installed successfully. I have been to busy at the office to get home in time to call Creative's help line. Anyone have any ideas how I get the service pack 2 stuff ? Maybe it is on my HD somewhere ? Andy K3UK
