Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Collin Kidder via EV]

Yeah, unfortunately you're probably right. But, the 2013 car I have
registers 0xBD which is way too many AH. It very well might be capacity of
some sort. GIDS maybe? Oh well, the search continues.

On Jan 27, 2017 6:37 AM, "Cor van de Water via EV" 
wrote:

> Sounds like that byte is the battery capacity in 0.5Ah since when new it
> is reported as 66 Ah which would be 132 or 84h and slowly degrading from
> there.
> Cor
>
> > On Jan 27, 2017, at 2:28 AM, Tom Parker via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 27/01/17 13:36, Collin Kidder via EV wrote:
> >>
> >> Any logs anyone could send me from a Leaf would be great. But, I might
> >> be on to something. Byte 4 (the fifth byte if you start counting at 0)
> >> is always a constant value for a given car. It stays the same across
> >> all 0x5C0 frames, it stays the same whether driving or charging. Every
> >> vehicle I've got a capture from has a unique byte here that never
> >> changes with any captures from that car no matter what else the car is
> >> doing. Pretty much all of the rest of the bytes change as you charge
> >> or discharge. I think what might be happening is that this byte is a
> >> sort of identifier that the rest of the system uses to see whether the
> >> pack is the same one it last knew. 256 unique values might not seem
> >> like a lot but that means that your odds of getting a pack with the
> >> same byte as your old pack is 1/256 or less than 0.5% - not so likely.
> >> One way to test this would be to set up a man in the middle
> >> configuration and then change that byte and see if it makes the car
> >> puke. Or, take a car with a replaced pack and try to change the
> >> reported byte from the new LBC to the reported byte from the old LBC
> >> and see if the car then wants to work better.
> >
> > I don't see a constant here. With the exception of one capture, each
> capture from my car has a single value in byte 4 but it is decreasing
> (except once when it went down and up) slowly over the last year or so for
> which I have data:
> >
> > Each line represents one capture and has the following format
> > byte_number value_in_hex:count_in_decimal
> >
> > 4 84:7
> > 4 84:12
> > 4 84:14
> > 4 84:80
> > 4 84:252
> > 4 84:128
> > 4 84:10
> > 4 84:14
> > 4 82:1607
> > 4 82:40
> > 4 82:22
> > 4 82:91
> > 4 80:40
> > 4 80:4332
> > 4 7e:14
> > 4 7e:53
> > 4 7c:531 fe:1
> > 4 7c:36
> > 4 7c:19
> > 4 7c:6
> > 4 7a:72
> > 4 7c:8
> > 4 7c:22
> > 4 7c:8
> > 4 7c:28
> > 4 7c:30
> > 4 7c:1
> > 4 7a:40
> > 4 7a:165
> > 4 7a:38
> > 4 7a:54
> >
> > The exception was captured during remote climate control, and I have 531
> frames with 7c with one frame containing fe about 2/3 of the way through
> the capture:
> >
> > 1572272017-01-07 08:38:05.031301LBC 0x5c016STD:
> 0x05c0   c0 72 74 00 7c d4 00 00
> > 1575332017-01-07 08:38:05.531215LBC 0x5c016STD:
> 0x05c0   00 fe fe 00 fe fc 00 00
> > 1572272017-01-07 08:38:05.031301LBC 0x5c016STD:
> 0x05c0   c0 72 74 00 7c d4 00 00
> >
> > I have 2 short captures made on the same day from a Gen 2 and there it
> alternates between two values:
> >
> > 4 ba:5 c0:2
> > 4 ba:8 c0:4
> > ___
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> > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/NEDRA)
> >
> ___
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Sounds like that byte is the battery capacity in 0.5Ah since when new it is 
reported as 66 Ah which would be 132 or 84h and slowly degrading from there. 
Cor

> On Jan 27, 2017, at 2:28 AM, Tom Parker via EV  wrote:
> 
>> On 27/01/17 13:36, Collin Kidder via EV wrote:
>> 
>> Any logs anyone could send me from a Leaf would be great. But, I might
>> be on to something. Byte 4 (the fifth byte if you start counting at 0)
>> is always a constant value for a given car. It stays the same across
>> all 0x5C0 frames, it stays the same whether driving or charging. Every
>> vehicle I've got a capture from has a unique byte here that never
>> changes with any captures from that car no matter what else the car is
>> doing. Pretty much all of the rest of the bytes change as you charge
>> or discharge. I think what might be happening is that this byte is a
>> sort of identifier that the rest of the system uses to see whether the
>> pack is the same one it last knew. 256 unique values might not seem
>> like a lot but that means that your odds of getting a pack with the
>> same byte as your old pack is 1/256 or less than 0.5% - not so likely.
>> One way to test this would be to set up a man in the middle
>> configuration and then change that byte and see if it makes the car
>> puke. Or, take a car with a replaced pack and try to change the
>> reported byte from the new LBC to the reported byte from the old LBC
>> and see if the car then wants to work better.
> 
> I don't see a constant here. With the exception of one capture, each capture 
> from my car has a single value in byte 4 but it is decreasing (except once 
> when it went down and up) slowly over the last year or so for which I have 
> data:
> 
> Each line represents one capture and has the following format
> byte_number value_in_hex:count_in_decimal
> 
> 4 84:7
> 4 84:12
> 4 84:14
> 4 84:80
> 4 84:252
> 4 84:128
> 4 84:10
> 4 84:14
> 4 82:1607
> 4 82:40
> 4 82:22
> 4 82:91
> 4 80:40
> 4 80:4332
> 4 7e:14
> 4 7e:53
> 4 7c:531 fe:1
> 4 7c:36
> 4 7c:19
> 4 7c:6
> 4 7a:72
> 4 7c:8
> 4 7c:22
> 4 7c:8
> 4 7c:28
> 4 7c:30
> 4 7c:1
> 4 7a:40
> 4 7a:165
> 4 7a:38
> 4 7a:54
> 
> The exception was captured during remote climate control, and I have 531 
> frames with 7c with one frame containing fe about 2/3 of the way through the 
> capture:
> 
> 1572272017-01-07 08:38:05.031301LBC 0x5c016STD: 
> 0x05c0   c0 72 74 00 7c d4 00 00
> 1575332017-01-07 08:38:05.531215LBC 0x5c016STD: 
> 0x05c0   00 fe fe 00 fe fc 00 00
> 1572272017-01-07 08:38:05.031301LBC 0x5c016STD: 
> 0x05c0   c0 72 74 00 7c d4 00 00
> 
> I have 2 short captures made on the same day from a Gen 2 and there it 
> alternates between two values:
> 
> 4 ba:5 c0:2
> 4 ba:8 c0:4
> ___
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 27/01/17 13:36, Collin Kidder via EV wrote:


Any logs anyone could send me from a Leaf would be great. But, I might
be on to something. Byte 4 (the fifth byte if you start counting at 0)
is always a constant value for a given car. It stays the same across
all 0x5C0 frames, it stays the same whether driving or charging. Every
vehicle I've got a capture from has a unique byte here that never
changes with any captures from that car no matter what else the car is
doing. Pretty much all of the rest of the bytes change as you charge
or discharge. I think what might be happening is that this byte is a
sort of identifier that the rest of the system uses to see whether the
pack is the same one it last knew. 256 unique values might not seem
like a lot but that means that your odds of getting a pack with the
same byte as your old pack is 1/256 or less than 0.5% - not so likely.
One way to test this would be to set up a man in the middle
configuration and then change that byte and see if it makes the car
puke. Or, take a car with a replaced pack and try to change the
reported byte from the new LBC to the reported byte from the old LBC
and see if the car then wants to work better.


I don't see a constant here. With the exception of one capture, each 
capture from my car has a single value in byte 4 but it is decreasing 
(except once when it went down and up) slowly over the last year or so 
for which I have data:


Each line represents one capture and has the following format
byte_number value_in_hex:count_in_decimal

4 84:7
4 84:12
4 84:14
4 84:80
4 84:252
4 84:128
4 84:10
4 84:14
4 82:1607
4 82:40
4 82:22
4 82:91
4 80:40
4 80:4332
4 7e:14
4 7e:53
4 7c:531 fe:1
4 7c:36
4 7c:19
4 7c:6
4 7a:72
4 7c:8
4 7c:22
4 7c:8
4 7c:28
4 7c:30
4 7c:1
4 7a:40
4 7a:165
4 7a:38
4 7a:54

The exception was captured during remote climate control, and I have 531 
frames with 7c with one frame containing fe about 2/3 of the way through 
the capture:


1572272017-01-07 08:38:05.031301LBC 0x5c016STD: 
0x05c0   c0 72 74 00 7c d4 00 00
1575332017-01-07 08:38:05.531215LBC 0x5c016STD: 
0x05c0   00 fe fe 00 fe fc 00 00
1572272017-01-07 08:38:05.031301LBC 0x5c016STD: 
0x05c0   c0 72 74 00 7c d4 00 00

I have 2 short captures made on the same day from a Gen 2 and there it 
alternates between two values:


4 ba:5 c0:2
4 ba:8 c0:4
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Collin Kidder via EV]

Any logs anyone could send me from a Leaf would be great. But, I might
be on to something. Byte 4 (the fifth byte if you start counting at 0)
is always a constant value for a given car. It stays the same across
all 0x5C0 frames, it stays the same whether driving or charging. Every
vehicle I've got a capture from has a unique byte here that never
changes with any captures from that car no matter what else the car is
doing. Pretty much all of the rest of the bytes change as you charge
or discharge. I think what might be happening is that this byte is a
sort of identifier that the rest of the system uses to see whether the
pack is the same one it last knew. 256 unique values might not seem
like a lot but that means that your odds of getting a pack with the
same byte as your old pack is 1/256 or less than 0.5% - not so likely.
One way to test this would be to set up a man in the middle
configuration and then change that byte and see if it makes the car
puke. Or, take a car with a replaced pack and try to change the
reported byte from the new LBC to the reported byte from the old LBC
and see if the car then wants to work better.

It seems a little bit cheap that they'd use a single byte for
validation but it's possible. So far as most anyone would be concerned
a 1 in 256 chance of a new pack working might as well be one in a
billion. If you needed to replace the pack in your car would you take
a 1/256 chance that the pack you bought would work? And, assuming
people did find out about the scheme for most people that'd mean
having to stock hundreds of salvage packs in order for your customers
to get a pack that works for their car.

But, without further testing this is all just a guess.

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Chris Meier via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> I was told by the dealer that the shorting of the 12v leads is one of the 
> approved steps/workarounds in the TCU update.
>
> Afterwards the gauges were off until one drive/charge cycle.
> --
> -Chris
>
> On January 26, 2017 12:29:37 PM CST, Cor van de Water via EV 
> <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>>The Supercaps that you mentioned are present in every car with
>>electrically operated brakes. I know of the supercap bank in the trunk
>>of every Prius since pretty early on (I think the "Classic" 2001-2003
>>does not have it, but I am certain that since 2004 it is wht allows you
>>to apply brakes a few times when suddenly the aux battery goes out
>>while
>>driving).
>>I checked the wiring diagram and indeed there is a "Brake Power Supply
>>Backup Unit (B15)" on the diagram. Typically those will *not* feed
>>power
>>back to 12V aux battery, so this should not be the reason a car behaves
>>differently with a short or long disconnect of the aux battery.
>>What might be the case is a capacitor on the memory of a computer that
>>is designed to withstand a short disconnect, to allow you to change
>>your
>>battery without losing all your settings.
>>Typically such a capacitor is not feeding back to the aux battery
>>either, so in any case clicking the loose battery wires together should
>>make very little difference in how long it takes for the car to behave
>>differently.
>>
>>Also, the LBC validation happens without disconnecting the aux battery.
>>I know for sure as I never disconnect the 12V battery and when I
>>swapped
>>my pack for a complete replacement pack from Washington State, the
>>yellow light on the dash came on and my Leaf was in Limp mode while I
>>only disconnected the (non-energized, due to the contactors in the
>>pack)
>>HV lines and the control bus.
>>Just wheeling the original pack back under my Leaf and swapping the
>>connectors removed the Limp mode, so I know for a fact that the Leaf
>>validates the battery upon pressing the power button while the aux
>>battery is connected continuously, so it seems that you were looking at
>>the wrong thing.
>>Probably a trace of the EV bus as soon as the power button is depressed
>>(when a *lot* of communication is happening) will tell the story.
>>You may start the trace as soon as the brake is pressed.
>>Good luck!
>>
>>Cor van de Water
>>Chief Scientist
>>Proxim Wireless
>>
>>office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>>XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>>
>>http://www.proxim.com
>>
>>This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>>and
>>proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
>>received
>>this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>>unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of an

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Chris Meier via EV]

I was told by the dealer that the shorting of the 12v leads is one of the 
approved steps/workarounds in the TCU update.

Afterwards the gauges were off until one drive/charge cycle.
-- 
-Chris

On January 26, 2017 12:29:37 PM CST, Cor van de Water via EV 
<ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
>The Supercaps that you mentioned are present in every car with
>electrically operated brakes. I know of the supercap bank in the trunk
>of every Prius since pretty early on (I think the "Classic" 2001-2003
>does not have it, but I am certain that since 2004 it is wht allows you
>to apply brakes a few times when suddenly the aux battery goes out
>while
>driving).
>I checked the wiring diagram and indeed there is a "Brake Power Supply
>Backup Unit (B15)" on the diagram. Typically those will *not* feed
>power
>back to 12V aux battery, so this should not be the reason a car behaves
>differently with a short or long disconnect of the aux battery.
>What might be the case is a capacitor on the memory of a computer that
>is designed to withstand a short disconnect, to allow you to change
>your
>battery without losing all your settings.
>Typically such a capacitor is not feeding back to the aux battery
>either, so in any case clicking the loose battery wires together should
>make very little difference in how long it takes for the car to behave
>differently.
>
>Also, the LBC validation happens without disconnecting the aux battery.
>I know for sure as I never disconnect the 12V battery and when I
>swapped
>my pack for a complete replacement pack from Washington State, the
>yellow light on the dash came on and my Leaf was in Limp mode while I
>only disconnected the (non-energized, due to the contactors in the
>pack)
>HV lines and the control bus.
>Just wheeling the original pack back under my Leaf and swapping the
>connectors removed the Limp mode, so I know for a fact that the Leaf
>validates the battery upon pressing the power button while the aux
>battery is connected continuously, so it seems that you were looking at
>the wrong thing.
>Probably a trace of the EV bus as soon as the power button is depressed
>(when a *lot* of communication is happening) will tell the story.
>You may start the trace as soon as the brake is pressed.
>Good luck!
>
>Cor van de Water 
>Chief Scientist 
>Proxim Wireless 
>  
>office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
>XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 
>
>http://www.proxim.com
>
>This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential
>and
>proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you
>received
>this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>this message is prohibited.
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Collin Kidder
>via EV
>Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:02 AM
>To: Tom Parker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
>Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
>interior/exterior/suspension parts?
>
>10 minutes should have been enough. Chris suggested shorting the
>positive and negative together to drain any capacitance and force the
>ECUs to reset but I cannot imagine an ECU lasting 10 minutes on its
>input capacitors. Though, I think that the leaf actually has a super
>capacitor behind the rear seats so it might take a long time to drain
>that off. It might be worth a try to make sure the 12v wiring is
>really, truly drained. I did some work with adding a secondary battery
>pack and initially made a number of bad mistakes that caused critical
>ECU faults. Disconnecting the battery for a few minutes would not
>allow me to clear the faults but disconnecting all day and trying it
>again the next day would work. I think eventually someone suggested
>shorting the battery terminals and doing that does allow for resets
>more quickly. Though, if I'm right about the super cap being for the
>12V power then you might want to discharge through a power resistor
>and not just click the terminals together. It doesn't hurt to use a
>resistor in either case. It's better for the car anyway.
>
>Otherwise, it does appear we're looking at a message that is more
>continuous. That doesn't mean that it necessarily happens quickly. On
>the Tesla Model S there is a series of messages that transmit the VIN
>number of the vehicle, presumably for authentication with various
>components. These messages are only sent something like every 5
>minutes. So, they'll show up as messages that aren't necessarily one
>time and done but they've got a very long interval between
>transmission. If you h

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Another thing we can try is to unplug the round control connector from
the battery pack, see if the car powers up into ACC mode (since the HV
battery is not accessible as the contactor coil wires also go through
that connector) and once the EV bus gets quiet, plug the connector in
again to see if the LBC will report for duty and the car accept it
(extinguish the warning lights)

Or take a capture of a typical good startup, then wire the EV CAN bus to
a different LBC and do the same startup, it is easier to see the
differences that way.

I have the hardware to build two CANary (intended for the dual pack
truck) so once I have that running, I can use one to reprogram and start
capturing CAN bus traffic...

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Collin Kidder
via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:38 PM
To: Tom Parker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

I have a capture from (I think it was the 2013 Leaf but I have a 2012
as well) and the capture is both buses at the same time. The "normal"
can bus is a lot noisier than the EV bus. It also starts up first and
has a lot of traffic before the EV bus even starts. I need to do some
more filtering to see which IDs are really on which buses but it looks
like maybe 0x5C0 could have something to do with it. It seems to be
part of the LBC comm and the message appears on the EV bus and then
immediately seems to be re-broadcast on the other CAN bus. But, I
don't see any form of response to it other than the VCM seems to
forward it immediately. Also, the numbers found within seem to be
different for each car I'm aware of. It also has a cyclic three
messages. The first byte goes 0x40, 0x80, 0xC0 for everyone. But, the
data doesn't seem to change much depending on that first byte.

I get:
0x5C0   Len: 8   Data: 0x40 50 4C 00 BD 00 1E 00
0x5C0   Len: 8   Data: 0x80 4C 4C 00 BD D8 0C 00
0x5C0   Len: 8   Data: 0xC0 4A 4A 00 BD D8 0C 00

There is some minor fluctuation of the numbers but not a lot. Kind of
seems like some form of data that might really not be a serial number
but it is one of the few frames directly forwarded between buses.

So, maybe there's something to it, maybe not. It'd be interesting to
know what your bytes are.


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Tom Parker via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
> On 27/01/17 07:29, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>>
>> Also, the LBC validation happens without disconnecting the aux
battery.
>> I know for sure as I never disconnect the 12V battery and when I
swapped
>> my pack for a complete replacement pack from Washington State, the
>> yellow light on the dash came on and my Leaf was in Limp mode while I
>> only disconnected the (non-energized, due to the contactors in the
pack)
>> HV lines and the control bus.
>> Just wheeling the original pack back under my Leaf and swapping the
>> connectors removed the Limp mode, so I know for a fact that the Leaf
>> validates the battery upon pressing the power button while the aux
>> battery is connected continuously, so it seems that you were looking
at
>> the wrong thing.
>> Probably a trace of the EV bus as soon as the power button is
depressed
>> (when a *lot* of communication is happening) will tell the story.
>> You may start the trace as soon as the brake is pressed.
>
>
> Thank you for this information Cor!
>
> I have many captures of my car's startup on the EV Bus and unless my
> hardware misses the important frames, I don't see anything special at
> startup. 0x603 is sent once, is the first frame sent and always with
payload
> 00. A number of frames are sent with lots of bits set which later
contain
> valid data - for example the first couple of frames from the LBC:
>
> 1 2017-01-26 21:47:24.907267CAN16
STD:
> 0x0603   00
> 8 2017-01-26 21:47:24.993307VCM Info   16
STD:
> 0x01f2   08 64 00 00 00 01 01 06
> 652017-01-26 21:47:25.139218LBC Battery V/A16
STD:
> 0x01db   7f e0 ff c6 00 00 00 de
> 662017-01-26 21:47:25.140191LBC 0x1dc  16
STD:
> 0x01dc   ff ff ff ff 1f ff fc 6b
>
> And I can see the VCM go through it's startup seq

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Collin Kidder via EV]

I have a capture from (I think it was the 2013 Leaf but I have a 2012
as well) and the capture is both buses at the same time. The "normal"
can bus is a lot noisier than the EV bus. It also starts up first and
has a lot of traffic before the EV bus even starts. I need to do some
more filtering to see which IDs are really on which buses but it looks
like maybe 0x5C0 could have something to do with it. It seems to be
part of the LBC comm and the message appears on the EV bus and then
immediately seems to be re-broadcast on the other CAN bus. But, I
don't see any form of response to it other than the VCM seems to
forward it immediately. Also, the numbers found within seem to be
different for each car I'm aware of. It also has a cyclic three
messages. The first byte goes 0x40, 0x80, 0xC0 for everyone. But, the
data doesn't seem to change much depending on that first byte.

I get:
0x5C0   Len: 8   Data: 0x40 50 4C 00 BD 00 1E 00
0x5C0   Len: 8   Data: 0x80 4C 4C 00 BD D8 0C 00
0x5C0   Len: 8   Data: 0xC0 4A 4A 00 BD D8 0C 00

There is some minor fluctuation of the numbers but not a lot. Kind of
seems like some form of data that might really not be a serial number
but it is one of the few frames directly forwarded between buses.

So, maybe there's something to it, maybe not. It'd be interesting to
know what your bytes are.


On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Tom Parker via EV  wrote:
> On 27/01/17 07:29, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
>>
>> Also, the LBC validation happens without disconnecting the aux battery.
>> I know for sure as I never disconnect the 12V battery and when I swapped
>> my pack for a complete replacement pack from Washington State, the
>> yellow light on the dash came on and my Leaf was in Limp mode while I
>> only disconnected the (non-energized, due to the contactors in the pack)
>> HV lines and the control bus.
>> Just wheeling the original pack back under my Leaf and swapping the
>> connectors removed the Limp mode, so I know for a fact that the Leaf
>> validates the battery upon pressing the power button while the aux
>> battery is connected continuously, so it seems that you were looking at
>> the wrong thing.
>> Probably a trace of the EV bus as soon as the power button is depressed
>> (when a *lot* of communication is happening) will tell the story.
>> You may start the trace as soon as the brake is pressed.
>
>
> Thank you for this information Cor!
>
> I have many captures of my car's startup on the EV Bus and unless my
> hardware misses the important frames, I don't see anything special at
> startup. 0x603 is sent once, is the first frame sent and always with payload
> 00. A number of frames are sent with lots of bits set which later contain
> valid data - for example the first couple of frames from the LBC:
>
> 1 2017-01-26 21:47:24.907267CAN16STD:
> 0x0603   00
> 8 2017-01-26 21:47:24.993307VCM Info   16STD:
> 0x01f2   08 64 00 00 00 01 01 06
> 652017-01-26 21:47:25.139218LBC Battery V/A16STD:
> 0x01db   7f e0 ff c6 00 00 00 de
> 662017-01-26 21:47:25.140191LBC 0x1dc  16STD:
> 0x01dc   ff ff ff ff 1f ff fc 6b
>
> And I can see the VCM go through it's startup sequence (in 0x1f2 byte 5).
> However all the frames other than 0x603 are sent more than once per second.
>
> I'll capture startup from some more cars, identify which bytes are different
> and use a man in the middle to selectively tamper with those bytes and see
> what causes the car to reject the battery. Hopefully there aren't too many
> differences! Carl at https://bluecars.nz/ has a leaf system on the bench, so
> establishing the man in the middle won't be too hard.
>
> ___
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

I have a Leaf (fully assembled and my daily driver)
and I have two LBC's in my truck, each managing one Leaf pack
and I have wired the two CAN buses to the dash, so it would be feasible
to disconnect only the CAN bus of a Leaf parked next to the truck, bring
the CAN bus to one of the LBCs (both at 2011 as is my Leaf) and see what
the incorrect response tells us.
BTW, there should be a trigger coming from the VCM just before the
answer from the LBC, since the LBC does not know when to report its
status, unless it is triggered by the power up of the IGN line to the
LBC but that seems unlikely, it makes more sense that the VCM
interrogates the LBC with an identity and the LBC confirms. The original
trigger may come from the Combination Meter, as I was told that removing
the Combination Meter will remove the Limp mode on a Leaf with the wrong
battery.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Tom Parker via
EV
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:54 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

On 27/01/17 07:29, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> Also, the LBC validation happens without disconnecting the aux
battery.
> I know for sure as I never disconnect the 12V battery and when I
swapped
> my pack for a complete replacement pack from Washington State, the
> yellow light on the dash came on and my Leaf was in Limp mode while I
> only disconnected the (non-energized, due to the contactors in the
pack)
> HV lines and the control bus.
> Just wheeling the original pack back under my Leaf and swapping the
> connectors removed the Limp mode, so I know for a fact that the Leaf
> validates the battery upon pressing the power button while the aux
> battery is connected continuously, so it seems that you were looking
at
> the wrong thing.
> Probably a trace of the EV bus as soon as the power button is
depressed
> (when a *lot* of communication is happening) will tell the story.
> You may start the trace as soon as the brake is pressed.

Thank you for this information Cor!

I have many captures of my car's startup on the EV Bus and unless my 
hardware misses the important frames, I don't see anything special at 
startup. 0x603 is sent once, is the first frame sent and always with 
payload 00. A number of frames are sent with lots of bits set which 
later contain valid data - for example the first couple of frames from 
the LBC:

1 2017-01-26 21:47:24.907267CAN16
STD: 0x0603   00
8 2017-01-26 21:47:24.993307VCM Info   16
STD: 0x01f2   08 64 00 00 00 01 01 06
652017-01-26 21:47:25.139218LBC Battery V/A16
STD: 0x01db   7f e0 ff c6 00 00 00 de
662017-01-26 21:47:25.140191LBC 0x1dc  16
STD: 0x01dc   ff ff ff ff 1f ff fc 6b

And I can see the VCM go through it's startup sequence (in 0x1f2 byte 
5). However all the frames other than 0x603 are sent more than once per 
second.

I'll capture startup from some more cars, identify which bytes are 
different and use a man in the middle to selectively tamper with those 
bytes and see what causes the car to reject the battery. Hopefully there

aren't too many differences! Carl at https://bluecars.nz/ has a leaf 
system on the bench, so establishing the man in the middle won't be too 
hard.
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 27/01/17 07:29, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Also, the LBC validation happens without disconnecting the aux battery.
I know for sure as I never disconnect the 12V battery and when I swapped
my pack for a complete replacement pack from Washington State, the
yellow light on the dash came on and my Leaf was in Limp mode while I
only disconnected the (non-energized, due to the contactors in the pack)
HV lines and the control bus.
Just wheeling the original pack back under my Leaf and swapping the
connectors removed the Limp mode, so I know for a fact that the Leaf
validates the battery upon pressing the power button while the aux
battery is connected continuously, so it seems that you were looking at
the wrong thing.
Probably a trace of the EV bus as soon as the power button is depressed
(when a *lot* of communication is happening) will tell the story.
You may start the trace as soon as the brake is pressed.


Thank you for this information Cor!

I have many captures of my car's startup on the EV Bus and unless my 
hardware misses the important frames, I don't see anything special at 
startup. 0x603 is sent once, is the first frame sent and always with 
payload 00. A number of frames are sent with lots of bits set which 
later contain valid data - for example the first couple of frames from 
the LBC:


1 2017-01-26 21:47:24.907267CAN16STD: 
0x0603   00
8 2017-01-26 21:47:24.993307VCM Info   16STD: 
0x01f2   08 64 00 00 00 01 01 06
652017-01-26 21:47:25.139218LBC Battery V/A16STD: 
0x01db   7f e0 ff c6 00 00 00 de
662017-01-26 21:47:25.140191LBC 0x1dc  16STD: 
0x01dc   ff ff ff ff 1f ff fc 6b

And I can see the VCM go through it's startup sequence (in 0x1f2 byte 
5). However all the frames other than 0x603 are sent more than once per 
second.


I'll capture startup from some more cars, identify which bytes are 
different and use a man in the middle to selectively tamper with those 
bytes and see what causes the car to reject the battery. Hopefully there 
aren't too many differences! Carl at https://bluecars.nz/ has a leaf 
system on the bench, so establishing the man in the middle won't be too 
hard.

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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

As you could see on my list, the LBC (BMS computer) is only connected to
the EV CAN bus so capturing everything on that bus should show you
everything that the battery computer tells to the VCM (or to other
computers *via* the VCM).
Concentrate on the point where the car starts up, that is when I expect
that the battery gets validated as I explained in my last post.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Tom Parker via
EV
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 10:32 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

On 27/01/17 07:06, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:
> Did you grab communication from *both* CAN buses?
> The Leaf's Battery Controller (LBC) communicates via the VCM which is
> connected to both the EV CAN bus and the normal CAN bus, to the
> Combination Meter, which is supposed to hold the key that is paired to
> the LBC. So some communication spills over from one CAN bus to the
> other. Both are available on the OBD (Data Link) connector. Without a
> dump from both, it is hard to tell what would disable/enable the Leaf
> since only half the communication can be seen.
I'm only capturing the EV CAN bus -- I'm interested in how the BMS is 
authenticated by the rest of the car, so that transaction must pass 
through the EV bus to get to the BMS. Unless it isn't done on the CAN 
bus at all, but that seems unlikely?
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 27/01/17 07:06, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

Did you grab communication from *both* CAN buses?
The Leaf's Battery Controller (LBC) communicates via the VCM which is
connected to both the EV CAN bus and the normal CAN bus, to the
Combination Meter, which is supposed to hold the key that is paired to
the LBC. So some communication spills over from one CAN bus to the
other. Both are available on the OBD (Data Link) connector. Without a
dump from both, it is hard to tell what would disable/enable the Leaf
since only half the communication can be seen.
I'm only capturing the EV CAN bus -- I'm interested in how the BMS is 
authenticated by the rest of the car, so that transaction must pass 
through the EV bus to get to the BMS. Unless it isn't done on the CAN 
bus at all, but that seems unlikely?

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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

The Supercaps that you mentioned are present in every car with
electrically operated brakes. I know of the supercap bank in the trunk
of every Prius since pretty early on (I think the "Classic" 2001-2003
does not have it, but I am certain that since 2004 it is wht allows you
to apply brakes a few times when suddenly the aux battery goes out while
driving).
I checked the wiring diagram and indeed there is a "Brake Power Supply
Backup Unit (B15)" on the diagram. Typically those will *not* feed power
back to 12V aux battery, so this should not be the reason a car behaves
differently with a short or long disconnect of the aux battery.
What might be the case is a capacitor on the memory of a computer that
is designed to withstand a short disconnect, to allow you to change your
battery without losing all your settings.
Typically such a capacitor is not feeding back to the aux battery
either, so in any case clicking the loose battery wires together should
make very little difference in how long it takes for the car to behave
differently.

Also, the LBC validation happens without disconnecting the aux battery.
I know for sure as I never disconnect the 12V battery and when I swapped
my pack for a complete replacement pack from Washington State, the
yellow light on the dash came on and my Leaf was in Limp mode while I
only disconnected the (non-energized, due to the contactors in the pack)
HV lines and the control bus.
Just wheeling the original pack back under my Leaf and swapping the
connectors removed the Limp mode, so I know for a fact that the Leaf
validates the battery upon pressing the power button while the aux
battery is connected continuously, so it seems that you were looking at
the wrong thing.
Probably a trace of the EV bus as soon as the power button is depressed
(when a *lot* of communication is happening) will tell the story.
You may start the trace as soon as the brake is pressed.
Good luck!

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Collin Kidder
via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:02 AM
To: Tom Parker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

10 minutes should have been enough. Chris suggested shorting the
positive and negative together to drain any capacitance and force the
ECUs to reset but I cannot imagine an ECU lasting 10 minutes on its
input capacitors. Though, I think that the leaf actually has a super
capacitor behind the rear seats so it might take a long time to drain
that off. It might be worth a try to make sure the 12v wiring is
really, truly drained. I did some work with adding a secondary battery
pack and initially made a number of bad mistakes that caused critical
ECU faults. Disconnecting the battery for a few minutes would not
allow me to clear the faults but disconnecting all day and trying it
again the next day would work. I think eventually someone suggested
shorting the battery terminals and doing that does allow for resets
more quickly. Though, if I'm right about the super cap being for the
12V power then you might want to discharge through a power resistor
and not just click the terminals together. It doesn't hurt to use a
resistor in either case. It's better for the car anyway.

Otherwise, it does appear we're looking at a message that is more
continuous. That doesn't mean that it necessarily happens quickly. On
the Tesla Model S there is a series of messages that transmit the VIN
number of the vehicle, presumably for authentication with various
components. These messages are only sent something like every 5
minutes. So, they'll show up as messages that aren't necessarily one
time and done but they've got a very long interval between
transmission. If you have the means to check transmission interval you
might try that. Actually, I have captures from various Leafs on the
powertrain bus and I do have the means to check the interval so I'll
check and see if I can find messages that maybe don't get transmitted
so often. A validation message might only be every second or couple of
seconds. There's no need to spam the bus with serial number validation
every 10ms. Really, I didn't think there was any need to do it more
than once but maybe it really does. This whole business of component
validation is just plain annoying. Are chop shops really that big of a
thing or are the automakers just that DIY h

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Did you grab communication from *both* CAN buses?
The Leaf's Battery Controller (LBC) communicates via the VCM which is
connected to both the EV CAN bus and the normal CAN bus, to the
Combination Meter, which is supposed to hold the key that is paired to
the LBC. So some communication spills over from one CAN bus to the
other. Both are available on the OBD (Data Link) connector. Without a
dump from both, it is hard to tell what would disable/enable the Leaf
since only half the communication can be seen.
Here is a full list of everything connected to the two CAN buses on a
2011 Leaf, you see that the VCM is the spider in the web of the two
buses:

EV CAN bus:
Data Link Connector (13,12)
LBC (BMS 1,2)
VCM (9,13)
traction motor inverter (12,19)
Electric Shift Control (31,32)
A/C Amp (28,29)
TCU (9,10)
Charger (19,20)

"normal" CAN bus:
Data Link COnnector (6,14)
IPDM (27,26)
Combination Meter (19,18)
VCM (25,29)
BCM (39,40)
ABS actuator and control (22,9)
Intelligent Brake Unit (43,42 41,40) (double wired to bus)
Parking Brake (16,8)
Airbag Controller (59,60)
AV control unit (26,25)
EPS (2,1)
Steering Angle Sensor (5,2)

The numbers at the end in braces are pin numbers on the unit, the first
number is the wire going to CAN-High, the second number to CAN-Low.

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
this message is prohibited.


-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Collin Kidder
via EV
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:02 AM
To: Tom Parker; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

10 minutes should have been enough. Chris suggested shorting the
positive and negative together to drain any capacitance and force the
ECUs to reset but I cannot imagine an ECU lasting 10 minutes on its
input capacitors. Though, I think that the leaf actually has a super
capacitor behind the rear seats so it might take a long time to drain
that off. It might be worth a try to make sure the 12v wiring is
really, truly drained. I did some work with adding a secondary battery
pack and initially made a number of bad mistakes that caused critical
ECU faults. Disconnecting the battery for a few minutes would not
allow me to clear the faults but disconnecting all day and trying it
again the next day would work. I think eventually someone suggested
shorting the battery terminals and doing that does allow for resets
more quickly. Though, if I'm right about the super cap being for the
12V power then you might want to discharge through a power resistor
and not just click the terminals together. It doesn't hurt to use a
resistor in either case. It's better for the car anyway.

Otherwise, it does appear we're looking at a message that is more
continuous. That doesn't mean that it necessarily happens quickly. On
the Tesla Model S there is a series of messages that transmit the VIN
number of the vehicle, presumably for authentication with various
components. These messages are only sent something like every 5
minutes. So, they'll show up as messages that aren't necessarily one
time and done but they've got a very long interval between
transmission. If you have the means to check transmission interval you
might try that. Actually, I have captures from various Leafs on the
powertrain bus and I do have the means to check the interval so I'll
check and see if I can find messages that maybe don't get transmitted
so often. A validation message might only be every second or couple of
seconds. There's no need to spam the bus with serial number validation
every 10ms. Really, I didn't think there was any need to do it more
than once but maybe it really does. This whole business of component
validation is just plain annoying. Are chop shops really that big of a
thing or are the automakers just that DIY hostile?

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Tom Parker via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
wrote:
> On 24/01/17 23:25, Tom Parker via EV wrote:
>
>> On my car, there is only one frame that isn't repeated continuously
after
>> startup (0x603 is sent once, with a single byte payload which is 00
in my
>> captures).
>>
>> I'll try disconnecting the 12v battery tomorrow and see if anything
>> different happens at when it's connected, or during the first
startup.
>
>
> I removed the 12V battery and there was no activity on the EV CAN bus
when
> it was reconnected. There were also no new messages when I turned the
ca

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Collin Kidder via EV]

10 minutes should have been enough. Chris suggested shorting the
positive and negative together to drain any capacitance and force the
ECUs to reset but I cannot imagine an ECU lasting 10 minutes on its
input capacitors. Though, I think that the leaf actually has a super
capacitor behind the rear seats so it might take a long time to drain
that off. It might be worth a try to make sure the 12v wiring is
really, truly drained. I did some work with adding a secondary battery
pack and initially made a number of bad mistakes that caused critical
ECU faults. Disconnecting the battery for a few minutes would not
allow me to clear the faults but disconnecting all day and trying it
again the next day would work. I think eventually someone suggested
shorting the battery terminals and doing that does allow for resets
more quickly. Though, if I'm right about the super cap being for the
12V power then you might want to discharge through a power resistor
and not just click the terminals together. It doesn't hurt to use a
resistor in either case. It's better for the car anyway.

Otherwise, it does appear we're looking at a message that is more
continuous. That doesn't mean that it necessarily happens quickly. On
the Tesla Model S there is a series of messages that transmit the VIN
number of the vehicle, presumably for authentication with various
components. These messages are only sent something like every 5
minutes. So, they'll show up as messages that aren't necessarily one
time and done but they've got a very long interval between
transmission. If you have the means to check transmission interval you
might try that. Actually, I have captures from various Leafs on the
powertrain bus and I do have the means to check the interval so I'll
check and see if I can find messages that maybe don't get transmitted
so often. A validation message might only be every second or couple of
seconds. There's no need to spam the bus with serial number validation
every 10ms. Really, I didn't think there was any need to do it more
than once but maybe it really does. This whole business of component
validation is just plain annoying. Are chop shops really that big of a
thing or are the automakers just that DIY hostile?

On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Tom Parker via EV  wrote:
> On 24/01/17 23:25, Tom Parker via EV wrote:
>
>> On my car, there is only one frame that isn't repeated continuously after
>> startup (0x603 is sent once, with a single byte payload which is 00 in my
>> captures).
>>
>> I'll try disconnecting the 12v battery tomorrow and see if anything
>> different happens at when it's connected, or during the first startup.
>
>
> I removed the 12V battery and there was no activity on the EV CAN bus when
> it was reconnected. There were also no new messages when I turned the car
> on, and other than 0x603, they all streamed continuously. I waited quite a
> long time (10 minutes maybe) before reconnecting the battery.
>
> I guess this means the BMS authentication is in the repeating messages, or
> it is triggered by some other event than disconnecting the 12V battery, or
> you can have the 12V battery disconnected for a very long time without
> breaking the BMS authentication.
>
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Chris Meier via EV]

Have you tried assuring the processors all reset by shorting the disconnected 
12v leads?
-- 
-Chris

On January 26, 2017 3:33:24 AM CST, Tom Parker via EV  wrote:
>On 24/01/17 23:25, Tom Parker via EV wrote:
>
>> On my car, there is only one frame that isn't repeated continuously 
>> after startup (0x603 is sent once, with a single byte payload which
>is 
>> 00 in my captures).
>>
>> I'll try disconnecting the 12v battery tomorrow and see if anything 
>> different happens at when it's connected, or during the first
>startup.
>
>I removed the 12V battery and there was no activity on the EV CAN bus 
>when it was reconnected. There were also no new messages when I turned 
>the car on, and other than 0x603, they all streamed continuously. I 
>waited quite a long time (10 minutes maybe) before reconnecting the
>battery.
>
>I guess this means the BMS authentication is in the repeating messages,
>
>or it is triggered by some other event than disconnecting the 12V 
>battery, or you can have the 12V battery disconnected for a very long 
>time without breaking the BMS authentication.
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 24/01/17 23:25, Tom Parker via EV wrote:

On my car, there is only one frame that isn't repeated continuously 
after startup (0x603 is sent once, with a single byte payload which is 
00 in my captures).


I'll try disconnecting the 12v battery tomorrow and see if anything 
different happens at when it's connected, or during the first startup.


I removed the 12V battery and there was no activity on the EV CAN bus 
when it was reconnected. There were also no new messages when I turned 
the car on, and other than 0x603, they all streamed continuously. I 
waited quite a long time (10 minutes maybe) before reconnecting the battery.


I guess this means the BMS authentication is in the repeating messages, 
or it is triggered by some other event than disconnecting the 12V 
battery, or you can have the 12V battery disconnected for a very long 
time without breaking the BMS authentication.

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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Ed Blackmond via EV]

This message was composed by me and sent using an electronic device.
> On Jan 24, 2017, at 1:32 AM, Tom Parker  wrote:
> 
>> On 24/01/17 04:07, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:
>> 
>> I am interested in learning how to reset the capacity gauge. Cor replaced 
>> the battery cells in my 2011 Leaf about 2000 miles ago. LeafSpy now reports 
>> about 62.5AH, but the capacity gauge on the dash hasn't budged. I get over 
>> 265 GIDs on a full charge and the car has range equal to what it was when 
>> new.  The state of charge gauge works fine and the distance to empty number 
>> is as inaccurate as ever.
>> 
>> 
> 
> When you say the capacity gauge, do you mean the outer column of battery 
> bars? IE you car still has the number of bars remaining that your old battery 
> had before it was replaced?
> 
> You kept the original BMS, right? Do you know if the BMS is reporting healthy 
> data and the instrument cluster is ignoring it, or if the BMS is reporting 
> the old data? Obviously the BMS is reporting Ah & GIDs values that match the 
> battery, but perhaps those values don't drive the instrument display? What 
> about the SOH?
> 
Yes, by capacity gauge I mean the outer column of battery bars.  That column 
still has the number of bars that were there before the battery cells were 
swapped.

LeafSpy now reports AHr=62.44 SOH=96% 89.3%. A few hours after a full charge 
(100%), there are 266 GIDs. It is about 2000 miles since the swap. These 
numbers rose fairly rapidly for about 1000 miles (maybe 0.5AHr per day -- more 
if I drove about 50% and let it sit unplugged for several hours -- less if I 
drove less or plugged it in, even without charging, right away). Then they 
stayed fairly constant for a while. Now they seem to be creeping up again.

I'm sorry I don't have better data.

Ed
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 24/01/17 04:07, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:


I am interested in learning how to reset the capacity gauge. Cor replaced the 
battery cells in my 2011 Leaf about 2000 miles ago. LeafSpy now reports about 
62.5AH, but the capacity gauge on the dash hasn't budged. I get over 265 GIDs 
on a full charge and the car has range equal to what it was when new.  The 
state of charge gauge works fine and the distance to empty number is as 
inaccurate as ever.




When you say the capacity gauge, do you mean the outer column of battery 
bars? IE you car still has the number of bars remaining that your old 
battery had before it was replaced?


You kept the original BMS, right? Do you know if the BMS is reporting 
healthy data and the instrument cluster is ignoring it, or if the BMS is 
reporting the old data? Obviously the BMS is reporting Ah & GIDs values 
that match the battery, but perhaps those values don't drive the 
instrument display? What about the SOH?

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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/23/2017 10:07 AM, Ed Blackmond via EV wrote:

Is anyone trying to reverse engineer the handshake between the
Leaf BMS and the rest of the car?


I am interested in learning how to reset the capacity gauge. Cor
replaced the battery cells in my 2011 Leaf about 2000 miles ago.
LeafSpy now reports about 62.5AH, but the capacity gauge on the dash
hasn't budged. I get over 265 GIDs on a full charge and the car has
range equal to what it was when new.  The state of charge gauge works
fine and the distance to empty number is as inaccurate as ever.



Interesting. I had assumed that the capacity gauge shown in the lower
cluster would automatically follow the BMS's readings, but apparently it 
only goes down. Perhaps they are treating it like the odometer, which 
only goes up ;>


I imagine that a dealership has the right software to re-set it.

Perhaps you could just go in and tell them that your capacity gauge 
doesn't agree with leaf spy and ask if they can re-set it for you, 
without telling them WHY it doesn't match


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Collin Kidder via EV]

On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:18 AM, Tom Parker via EV  wrote:
> Is anyone trying to reverse engineer the handshake between the Leaf BMS and
> the rest of the car?

I haven't yet. I haven't had any need to swap batteries in a Leaf.
Instead I've added some to the existing pack but externally so I
didn't need to mess with the BMS in the car.

>
> As I understand it, the Leaf BMS is quite happy to work on it's own but some
> other part car authenticates the BMS and is not happy if the BMS is swapped.
> A friend tried swapping the whole battery including the BMS he says the car
> was not happy, it worked but only in Turtle mode, regardless of state of
> charge.

Yes, it sounds as if it is validating the pack somehow. I don't know
which messages might be responsible for this. I'm working on firmware
that can run on a board with two can buses and then monitor both sides
to determine which frames a device outputs and which it accepts. This
would make it easy to determine the messages actually coming from the
BMS and when they occur but requires cutting the wiring and inserting
the device in between. Though, presumably one needn't keep sending the
validation over and over so it probably occurs early in the process.
Because of that, it might be possible to find the validation message
just by looking at a power train CAN capture and seeing which frames
are sent only early in the process. That's a potential avenue for
attack. Also, the security validation bytes for the Leaf seem to
always use the same algorithm so if there's a security byte it should
already be possible to generate it.

>
> Has anyone identified the CAN bus messages that contain the authentication
> handshake? I've been collecting information at
> https://carrott.org/emini/Nissan_Leaf_OVMS#Leaf_Can_Bus but I haven't seen
> information about the BMS authentication.

I looked at your site. As you found, the big spreadsheet of knowledge
on the Leaf is pretty far off from reality all too often. There are
many falsehoods in there but it's a start.

>
> Could you put a man in the middle between the BMS and the rest of the car
> which allows the original BMS board to authenticate, but replaces all the
> battery status messages with "everything is fine"? Obviously the man in the
> middle would need to talk to the BMS on the new battery (either another
> Nissan or a whole new BMS or whatever) and tell the car everything is not
> fine if the new battery is in trouble.
>

It's certainly possible. A lot of BMS messages have been decoded (kind
of... see above for how much I trust that spreadsheet) but you need to
really thoroughly emulate it in order to do a convincing job of
emulation.
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Tom Parker via EV]

On 23/01/17 10:52, Cor van de Water via EV wrote:

I sent you a separate email with an idea to avoid a fake Leaf pack and still 
keep the BMS happy and report SoC.


Is anyone trying to reverse engineer the handshake between the Leaf BMS 
and the rest of the car?


As I understand it, the Leaf BMS is quite happy to work on it's own but 
some other part car authenticates the BMS and is not happy if the BMS is 
swapped. A friend tried swapping the whole battery including the BMS he 
says the car was not happy, it worked but only in Turtle mode, 
regardless of state of charge.


Has anyone identified the CAN bus messages that contain the 
authentication handshake? I've been collecting information at 
https://carrott.org/emini/Nissan_Leaf_OVMS#Leaf_Can_Bus but I haven't 
seen information about the BMS authentication.


Could you put a man in the middle between the BMS and the rest of the 
car which allows the original BMS board to authenticate, but replaces 
all the battery status messages with "everything is fine"? Obviously the 
man in the middle would need to talk to the BMS on the new battery 
(either another Nissan or a whole new BMS or whatever) and tell the car 
everything is not fine if the new battery is in trouble.

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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Hi Jukka,

I sent you a separate email with an idea to avoid a fake Leaf pack and still 
keep the BMS happy and report SoC.

If the original Leaf pack and your pack are the same voltage, then you may not 
even need a DC/DC.

The main issue that I am seeing to utilize the Leaf box is that it has so many 
mounting bolts protruding and

stiffening bars crossing the box that it is hard to optimally use the space 
inside,

though it may be easy to simply grind off most the bolts and even remove the 
stiffening profiles

to create a flat bottom.

You may need to add a sheet of steel if necessary to flatten the bottom and 
protect your cells,

but you may want to encase your cells in a protective sheet anyway.

I will send you a couple pics of the box and a PDF drawing of the box with a 
few measurements

as found in the service manual.

Regards,

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
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From: jarv...@gmail.com [mailto:jarv...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jukka Järvinen
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 4:25 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or 
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

 

I do not have the exact dimensions of the enclosure. Has someone made .dwg out 
of it?

 

I would like to figure out if the old enclosure is usable for upgraded pack. 
Most likely outcome is we will need to make the packs completely and just make 
sure the connectors and joints fit.

 

The old BMS master unit has to be removed from the old pack and put on the new 
pack to fool the Leaf. That BMS is not going to do anything with the LiFePO4 
pack. I'll make a miniature pack (360V nx100 mAh) which that BMS will be 
measuring. DC/DC between the LiFePO4 and LMO packs will keep them on identical 
SOC so the Leaf BMS is fooled to think all is as nothing has happened.  

 

This is my $50 hack to go around the BMS problem. :) 

 

-Jukka

 

 

2017-01-20 2:46 GMT+02:00 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>:

Hi Jukka,

I will hang on to the shells, they have been in my yard a few months already, I 
can wait a few more weeks ;-)

Do you have the outline of the box? With the half-pack (24 modules stacked 
sideways) across the back

(under the rear seat) and the two quarter packs under the front seats/rear 
footwell with small stacks of

4 + 4 + 2 + 2 modules on each quarter pack? The height of the shell varies 
quite a bit from front to back!

There is also a stiffening bar across between the 4+4 and the 2+2 stacks, but 
it can be left out if it is in the way.

Let me know if I need to ship it with the shell.



Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
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message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
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From: jarv...@gmail.com [mailto:jarv...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jukka Järvinen
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:15 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or 
interior/exterior/suspension parts?



Thanks Cor!



I will check what are the options to ship one set covers here. Last time I sent 
something from here to there about same size and weight was only about 300€.



We can use the other set to upgrade one car in there if you're OK with that. 
Just hold on to them.



I think I could have one set of covers even closer but I'd love to do 1st 
actual project with you. :)



The cells I am going to do in lab as the manufacturing line is still under 
development.



Very simplified description: Cellulose separator with anode (Graphene) and 
cathode (LiFePO4, large particle sizes only) printed directly on opposite sides 
of the separator and enclosed in graphene filled plastic cover with double 
layer gas barrier. No Al or Cu foils at all.



The cells will be cut in shape so it covers the battery enclosure tightly. 
Cells are bipolar and ~1mm thick and just stacked on each other as the both 
sides of the cell is conductive.



I will test few holes in the layers too so I can crimp the stack more eve

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Nick,
Thanks for the offer! Very timely!
My local Oreilly car parts store has a policy where you can turn in dead
lead-acid car batteries and get $15 each, so I first sold some still
decent working ones from the string via Craigslist and the remaining
dozen or so went to Oreilly for almost $200 in store credit. Obviously I
did not bring them all at once, just 3 or 4 at a time.

The 2013 computers sound great! Please note that I will need the BMS
computer also, but I can substitute it with another one that is not
matched to the car (that is where the problem is actually).
I heard that the BMS is matched to the lower display (which is also used
in this truck conversion) so I will need the combination of BMS computer
and lower display and I can return a set if you need them, let me know.
The other things needed are the VCM, BCM and the intelligent key(s).

I think that the nav system is not coded to the car, but I am not sure.
Also the harness may be different, have not looked into that.
Note that the TCU (Telematics wireless communication) in the 2015 will
be upgraded for free by Nissan as the old 2G communication has been
phased out by the mobile carrier, so you will need to do that on your
2015 before diving in yourself and making it obvious that it is not
original.

Let me know off-list about the computers, I am helping a local EV'er to
finish the truck that he started with these computers.
Thanks!

Cor van de Water 
Chief Scientist 
Proxim Wireless 
  
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water 
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info 

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of nicklogan via
EV
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 9:47 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

Cor,
I purchased a 2013 salvage Leaf this week as a battery donor to
replace the lead acid pack in my pickup. It has body damage only so the
electronics should all be ok. Let me know if you are interested in the
computer, etc. Anyone else interested in parts, also contact me before I
start with ebay and Craigs list. Heavier components (drivetrain, battery
box, etc.) will be available by local pickup only. I'll be keeping some
things, like the alloy wheels.
I also purchased a 2015 Leaf with quick charge to replace my
Smart
Ed that will be going off lease soon (this one is roadworthy and
registered). Do you know if the nav system is also coded to work with
one
computer set? I'd like to switch that from the 2013 to the 2015.
 BTW, I didn't know that Battery Recyclers of America will pick
up
your FLA batteries for free. Just have to palletize them.

Regards,
John Nicholson
www.evalbum.com/2672

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685509p4685553.html
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 01/22/2017 12:46 PM, nicklogan via EV wrote:


 BTW, I didn't know that Battery Recyclers of America will pick up
your FLA batteries for free. Just have to palletize them.


I've been able to sell my used FLA batteries on craigslist for $40 each 
to people who want them for off-grid storage, trolling motors, golf 
carts, etc.


Of course, they were not completely dead. Core charge is about $30, so 
they should be worth at least $25 to somebody who just wants to use them 
to get a discount on new ones.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[nicklogan via EV]

Cor,
I purchased a 2013 salvage Leaf this week as a battery donor to
replace the lead acid pack in my pickup. It has body damage only so the
electronics should all be ok. Let me know if you are interested in the
computer, etc. Anyone else interested in parts, also contact me before I
start with ebay and Craigs list. Heavier components (drivetrain, battery
box, etc.) will be available by local pickup only. I'll be keeping some
things, like the alloy wheels.
I also purchased a 2015 Leaf with quick charge to replace my Smart
Ed that will be going off lease soon (this one is roadworthy and
registered). Do you know if the nav system is also coded to work with one
computer set? I'd like to switch that from the 2013 to the 2015.
 BTW, I didn't know that Battery Recyclers of America will pick up
your FLA batteries for free. Just have to palletize them.

Regards,
John Nicholson
www.evalbum.com/2672

--
View this message in context: 
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Anyone-interested-in-2015-Leaf-drivetrain-or-interior-exterior-suspension-parts-tp4685509p4685553.html
Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
Nabble.com.
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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Jukka Järvinen via EV]

I do not have the exact dimensions of the enclosure. Has someone made .dwg
out of it?

I would like to figure out if the old enclosure is usable for upgraded
pack. Most likely outcome is we will need to make the packs completely and
just make sure the connectors and joints fit.

The old BMS master unit has to be removed from the old pack and put on the
new pack to fool the Leaf. That BMS is not going to do anything with the
LiFePO4 pack. I'll make a miniature pack (360V nx100 mAh) which that BMS
will be measuring. DC/DC between the LiFePO4 and LMO packs will keep them
on identical SOC so the Leaf BMS is fooled to think all is as nothing has
happened.

This is my $50 hack to go around the BMS problem. :)

-Jukka


2017-01-20 2:46 GMT+02:00 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>:

> Hi Jukka,
>
> I will hang on to the shells, they have been in my yard a few months
> already, I can wait a few more weeks ;-)
>
> Do you have the outline of the box? With the half-pack (24 modules stacked
> sideways) across the back
>
> (under the rear seat) and the two quarter packs under the front seats/rear
> footwell with small stacks of
>
> 4 + 4 + 2 + 2 modules on each quarter pack? The height of the shell varies
> quite a bit from front to back!
>
> There is also a stiffening bar across between the 4+4 and the 2+2 stacks,
> but it can be left out if it is in the way.
>
> Let me know if I need to ship it with the shell.
>
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
> message is prohibited.
>
> 
>
> From: jarv...@gmail.com [mailto:jarv...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jukka
> Järvinen
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:15 AM
> To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
> interior/exterior/suspension parts?
>
>
>
> Thanks Cor!
>
>
>
> I will check what are the options to ship one set covers here. Last time I
> sent something from here to there about same size and weight was only about
> 300€.
>
>
>
> We can use the other set to upgrade one car in there if you're OK with
> that. Just hold on to them.
>
>
>
> I think I could have one set of covers even closer but I'd love to do 1st
> actual project with you. :)
>
>
>
> The cells I am going to do in lab as the manufacturing line is still under
> development.
>
>
>
> Very simplified description: Cellulose separator with anode (Graphene) and
> cathode (LiFePO4, large particle sizes only) printed directly on opposite
> sides of the separator and enclosed in graphene filled plastic cover with
> double layer gas barrier. No Al or Cu foils at all.
>
>
>
> The cells will be cut in shape so it covers the battery enclosure tightly.
> Cells are bipolar and ~1mm thick and just stacked on each other as the both
> sides of the cell is conductive.
>
>
>
> I will test few holes in the layers too so I can crimp the stack more
> evenly. I will not expect more than 300Wh/sqm at this point. Aim is at 500
> in next few years.
>
>
>
> Currently I am aiming almost solely in grid connected energy storage
> systems and only as service.
>
>
>
> -Jukka
>
>
>
>
>
> 2017-01-19 10:44 GMT+02:00 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>:
>
> Jukka,
>
> I already have 2 complete (top and bottom shell) battery enclosures
> sitting in my yard that you can have for free.
>
> I might have the external connectors also (High voltage and the CAN bus /
> contactor control plug) for the enclosure.
>
> I don't have the control plug from the car, but I do have the high voltage
> wire from the car.
>
> There is a difference in the internals for the 2011/2012 Leaf battery
> versus the 2013+.
>
> These enclosures are for the 2013+ but the difference is mainly that they
> have only a few bolts to close them
>
> since they are supposed to be glued shut and the interior mounting
> positions of contactors, disconnect and
>
> stiffening bar are slightly different.
>
> I should have a disconnect somewhere, I can't recall for sure. I know that
> I have contactors if you are interested.
>
>
>
> What type of cells are you going to put in there to g

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Hi Jukka,

I will hang on to the shells, they have been in my yard a few months already, I 
can wait a few more weeks ;-)

Do you have the outline of the box? With the half-pack (24 modules stacked 
sideways) across the back 

(under the rear seat) and the two quarter packs under the front seats/rear 
footwell with small stacks of

4 + 4 + 2 + 2 modules on each quarter pack? The height of the shell varies 
quite a bit from front to back!

There is also a stiffening bar across between the 4+4 and the 2+2 stacks, but 
it can be left out if it is in the way.

Let me know if I need to ship it with the shell.

 

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.



From: jarv...@gmail.com [mailto:jarv...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Jukka Järvinen
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:15 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or 
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

 

Thanks Cor!

 

I will check what are the options to ship one set covers here. Last time I sent 
something from here to there about same size and weight was only about 300€.

 

We can use the other set to upgrade one car in there if you're OK with that. 
Just hold on to them.

 

I think I could have one set of covers even closer but I'd love to do 1st 
actual project with you. :)

 

The cells I am going to do in lab as the manufacturing line is still under 
development.

 

Very simplified description: Cellulose separator with anode (Graphene) and 
cathode (LiFePO4, large particle sizes only) printed directly on opposite sides 
of the separator and enclosed in graphene filled plastic cover with double 
layer gas barrier. No Al or Cu foils at all. 

 

The cells will be cut in shape so it covers the battery enclosure tightly. 
Cells are bipolar and ~1mm thick and just stacked on each other as the both 
sides of the cell is conductive. 

 

I will test few holes in the layers too so I can crimp the stack more evenly. I 
will not expect more than 300Wh/sqm at this point. Aim is at 500 in next few 
years.

 

Currently I am aiming almost solely in grid connected energy storage systems 
and only as service. 

 

-Jukka

 

 

2017-01-19 10:44 GMT+02:00 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>:

Jukka,

I already have 2 complete (top and bottom shell) battery enclosures sitting in 
my yard that you can have for free.

I might have the external connectors also (High voltage and the CAN bus / 
contactor control plug) for the enclosure.

I don't have the control plug from the car, but I do have the high voltage wire 
from the car.

There is a difference in the internals for the 2011/2012 Leaf battery versus 
the 2013+.

These enclosures are for the 2013+ but the difference is mainly that they have 
only a few bolts to close them

since they are supposed to be glued shut and the interior mounting positions of 
contactors, disconnect and

stiffening bar are slightly different.

I should have a disconnect somewhere, I can't recall for sure. I know that I 
have contactors if you are interested.



What type of cells are you going to put in there to get that crazy capacity?



BTW, shipment might be costly as the shell (especially the double-walled 
bottom) is heavy, it must be freighted

as it is about 200 pounds per shell.

Unless it can be picked up in person in Silicon Valley...



Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626 <tel:%2B1%20408%20383%207626> Skype: 
cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130 <tel:%2B31%2087%20784%201130> 
private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.



From: Jukka Järvinen [mailto:akkuju...@akkujukka.fi]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 12:32 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or 
interior/exterior/suspension parts?



How much for the battery enclosure with external connectors? I'll build 
upgraded pack inside it (60-80kWh). -Jukka



to 19. tammikuuta 2017 klo 7.56 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
kirjoitti:

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Jukka Järvinen via EV]

Thanks Cor!

I will check what are the options to ship one set covers here. Last time I
sent something from here to there about same size and weight was only about
300€.

We can use the other set to upgrade one car in there if you're OK with
that. Just hold on to them.

I think I could have one set of covers even closer but I'd love to do 1st
actual project with you. :)

The cells I am going to do in lab as the manufacturing line is still under
development.

Very simplified description: Cellulose separator with anode (Graphene) and
cathode (LiFePO4, large particle sizes only) printed directly on opposite
sides of the separator and enclosed in graphene filled plastic cover with
double layer gas barrier. No Al or Cu foils at all.

The cells will be cut in shape so it covers the battery enclosure tightly.
Cells are bipolar and ~1mm thick and just stacked on each other as the both
sides of the cell is conductive.

I will test few holes in the layers too so I can crimp the stack more
evenly. I will not expect more than 300Wh/sqm at this point. Aim is at 500
in next few years.

Currently I am aiming almost solely in grid connected energy storage
systems and only as service.

-Jukka


2017-01-19 10:44 GMT+02:00 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>:

> Jukka,
>
> I already have 2 complete (top and bottom shell) battery enclosures
> sitting in my yard that you can have for free.
>
> I might have the external connectors also (High voltage and the CAN bus /
> contactor control plug) for the enclosure.
>
> I don't have the control plug from the car, but I do have the high voltage
> wire from the car.
>
> There is a difference in the internals for the 2011/2012 Leaf battery
> versus the 2013+.
>
> These enclosures are for the 2013+ but the difference is mainly that they
> have only a few bolts to close them
>
> since they are supposed to be glued shut and the interior mounting
> positions of contactors, disconnect and
>
> stiffening bar are slightly different.
>
> I should have a disconnect somewhere, I can't recall for sure. I know that
> I have contactors if you are interested.
>
>
>
> What type of cells are you going to put in there to get that crazy
> capacity?
>
>
>
> BTW, shipment might be costly as the shell (especially the double-walled
> bottom) is heavy, it must be freighted
>
> as it is about 200 pounds per shell.
>
> Unless it can be picked up in person in Silicon Valley...
>
>
>
> Cor van de Water
> Chief Scientist
> Proxim Wireless
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this
> message is prohibited.
>
> ________
>
> From: Jukka Järvinen [mailto:akkuju...@akkujukka.fi]
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 12:32 AM
> To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or
> interior/exterior/suspension parts?
>
>
>
> How much for the battery enclosure with external connectors? I'll build
> upgraded pack inside it (60-80kWh). -Jukka
>
>
>
> to 19. tammikuuta 2017 klo 7.56 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org>
> kirjoitti:
>
> I am involved in trouble-shooting a pickup truck that is converted
> with
>
> a (2013) Leaf drivetrain.
>
> However, over the course of the project some mistakes were made
> and in
>
> particular the BMS computer
>
> (LBC in Nissan language) was damaged and discarded before I got
>
> involved, but the LBC is coded
>
> to the other computers in the car (in particular to the instrument
>
> cluster, it seems) so the only way to
>
> get the project rolling again is to install a matched set of
> computers
>
> from another Leaf.
>
>
>
> For that purpose, I consider buying a black 2015 Leaf that was
>
> rear-ended but otherwise seems in good shape.
>
> Doors, the whole front end, seats, airbags and so on appear to be
> in
>
> great shape.
>
> I only need the battery and the computers plus the lower instrument
>
> cluster, everything else is available
>
> so the combination of inverter, charger, motor and transmission is
>
> available
>
> plus all suspension, halfshafts, rear

Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Jukka,

I already have 2 complete (top and bottom shell) battery enclosures sitting in 
my yard that you can have for free.

I might have the external connectors also (High voltage and the CAN bus / 
contactor control plug) for the enclosure.

I don't have the control plug from the car, but I do have the high voltage wire 
from the car.

There is a difference in the internals for the 2011/2012 Leaf battery versus 
the 2013+.

These enclosures are for the 2013+ but the difference is mainly that they have 
only a few bolts to close them

since they are supposed to be glued shut and the interior mounting positions of 
contactors, disconnect and

stiffening bar are slightly different.

I should have a disconnect somewhere, I can't recall for sure. I know that I 
have contactors if you are interested.

 

What type of cells are you going to put in there to get that crazy capacity?

 

BTW, shipment might be costly as the shell (especially the double-walled 
bottom) is heavy, it must be freighted

as it is about 200 pounds per shell.

Unless it can be picked up in person in Silicon Valley...

 

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless
 
office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info

http://www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.



From: Jukka Järvinen [mailto:akkuju...@akkujukka.fi] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 12:32 AM
To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or 
interior/exterior/suspension parts?

 

How much for the battery enclosure with external connectors? I'll build 
upgraded pack inside it (60-80kWh). -Jukka

 

to 19. tammikuuta 2017 klo 7.56 Cor van de Water via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> 
kirjoitti:

I am involved in trouble-shooting a pickup truck that is converted with

a (2013) Leaf drivetrain.

However, over the course of the project some mistakes were made and in

particular the BMS computer

(LBC in Nissan language) was damaged and discarded before I got

involved, but the LBC is coded

to the other computers in the car (in particular to the instrument

cluster, it seems) so the only way to

get the project rolling again is to install a matched set of computers

from another Leaf.



For that purpose, I consider buying a black 2015 Leaf that was

rear-ended but otherwise seems in good shape.

Doors, the whole front end, seats, airbags and so on appear to be in

great shape.

I only need the battery and the computers plus the lower instrument

cluster, everything else is available

so the combination of inverter, charger, motor and transmission is

available

plus all suspension, halfshafts, rear axle, doors and everything on the

front end: all lights, hood, bumper,

bumper cover, radiator, A/C heatpump, intelligent brake system, pumps,

harness and fuse boxes.

Also all interior such as seats, carpeting, headliner and all airbags.

BTW, I have an undamaged aluminum rear bumper sitting in my garage as

well as some interior trim pieces

and door speakers.

Let me know your interest, so I can decide if it makes sense to buy the

salvage Leaf and strip it.

Thanks,



Cor van de Water

Chief Scientist

Proxim Wireless



office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water

XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info



http://www.proxim.com



This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and

proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received

this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any

unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of

this message is prohibited.





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Re: [EVDL] Anyone interested in 2015 Leaf drivetrain or interior/exterior/suspension parts?

[Jukka Järvinen via EV]

How much for the battery enclosure with external connectors? I'll build
upgraded pack inside it (60-80kWh). -Jukka

to 19. tammikuuta 2017 klo 7.56 Cor van de Water via EV 
kirjoitti:

> I am involved in trouble-shooting a pickup truck that is converted with
>
> a (2013) Leaf drivetrain.
>
> However, over the course of the project some mistakes were made and in
>
> particular the BMS computer
>
> (LBC in Nissan language) was damaged and discarded before I got
>
> involved, but the LBC is coded
>
> to the other computers in the car (in particular to the instrument
>
> cluster, it seems) so the only way to
>
> get the project rolling again is to install a matched set of computers
>
> from another Leaf.
>
>
>
> For that purpose, I consider buying a black 2015 Leaf that was
>
> rear-ended but otherwise seems in good shape.
>
> Doors, the whole front end, seats, airbags and so on appear to be in
>
> great shape.
>
> I only need the battery and the computers plus the lower instrument
>
> cluster, everything else is available
>
> so the combination of inverter, charger, motor and transmission is
>
> available
>
> plus all suspension, halfshafts, rear axle, doors and everything on the
>
> front end: all lights, hood, bumper,
>
> bumper cover, radiator, A/C heatpump, intelligent brake system, pumps,
>
> harness and fuse boxes.
>
> Also all interior such as seats, carpeting, headliner and all airbags.
>
> BTW, I have an undamaged aluminum rear bumper sitting in my garage as
>
> well as some interior trim pieces
>
> and door speakers.
>
> Let me know your interest, so I can decide if it makes sense to buy the
>
> salvage Leaf and strip it.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Cor van de Water
>
> Chief Scientist
>
> Proxim Wireless
>
>
>
> office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water
>
> XoIP   +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info
>
>
>
> http://www.proxim.com
>
>
>
> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and
>
> proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received
>
> this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any
>
> unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of
>
> this message is prohibited.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- next part --
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>
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> http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20170118/d62fd009/attachment.htm
> >
>
> ___
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>
> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/
>
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
>
>
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