Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help
Interesting. You were just talking about IRC and #wikipedia-en-help and not using research, and now you have seem to given up. From, Emily On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: The chat system mentioned by Quiddity may actually decrease the number of helpees in IRC by encouraging them to use the dedicated messaging system which we hope will appeal to experienced users who will choose to join the category-based chatrooms. Or the chatrooms may fail hard. Research data about the chatroom concept would be good before committing to develop it. Pine On Aug 12, 2014 9:45 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and not helpees. From, Emily On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any comments from the Growth and EE teams? Pine On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com wrote: The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for Why not IRC?) IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first. However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy comparison: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/ ) HTH, Quiddity On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user experience. Pine On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions Seb poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and people who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help
Sorry if my previous email seemed a little harsh or confused. I don't think a chatroom is non-confusing enough. One other way helpees often fail hard is that they confuse messages sent to other helpees as being directed at them. They don't realize it's a public chatroom. We would need a system where a helpee can contact a helper 1:1 for this to work. From, Emily On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting. You were just talking about IRC and #wikipedia-en-help and not using research, and now you have seem to given up. From, Emily On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: The chat system mentioned by Quiddity may actually decrease the number of helpees in IRC by encouraging them to use the dedicated messaging system which we hope will appeal to experienced users who will choose to join the category-based chatrooms. Or the chatrooms may fail hard. Research data about the chatroom concept would be good before committing to develop it. Pine On Aug 12, 2014 9:45 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and not helpees. From, Emily On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any comments from the Growth and EE teams? Pine On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com wrote: The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for Why not IRC?) IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first. However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy comparison: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/ ) HTH, Quiddity On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user experience. Pine On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions Seb poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and people who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help
Research about the chatroom concept, not so much about IRC alone. We can't practically run research projects about every change. Chatrooms would be a major change and be resource intensive to start, so research makes sense before starting this implementation. Pine Pine On Aug 13, 2014 7:15 AM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting. You were just talking about IRC and #wikipedia-en-help and not using research, and now you have seem to given up. From, Emily On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: The chat system mentioned by Quiddity may actually decrease the number of helpees in IRC by encouraging them to use the dedicated messaging system which we hope will appeal to experienced users who will choose to join the category-based chatrooms. Or the chatrooms may fail hard. Research data about the chatroom concept would be good before committing to develop it. Pine On Aug 12, 2014 9:45 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and not helpees. From, Emily On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any comments from the Growth and EE teams? Pine On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com wrote: The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for Why not IRC?) IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first. However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy comparison: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/ ) HTH, Quiddity On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user experience. Pine On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions Seb poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and people who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help
We might be able to create one on one chats somehow on IRC or with chatrooms. The concept makes sense. Pine On Aug 13, 2014 11:11 AM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry if my previous email seemed a little harsh or confused. I don't think a chatroom is non-confusing enough. One other way helpees often fail hard is that they confuse messages sent to other helpees as being directed at them. They don't realize it's a public chatroom. We would need a system where a helpee can contact a helper 1:1 for this to work. From, Emily On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting. You were just talking about IRC and #wikipedia-en-help and not using research, and now you have seem to given up. From, Emily On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: The chat system mentioned by Quiddity may actually decrease the number of helpees in IRC by encouraging them to use the dedicated messaging system which we hope will appeal to experienced users who will choose to join the category-based chatrooms. Or the chatrooms may fail hard. Research data about the chatroom concept would be good before committing to develop it. Pine On Aug 12, 2014 9:45 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and not helpees. From, Emily On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any comments from the Growth and EE teams? Pine On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com wrote: The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for Why not IRC?) IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first. However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy comparison: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/ ) HTH, Quiddity On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user experience. Pine On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions Seb poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and people who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help
Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any comments from the Growth and EE teams? Pine On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com wrote: The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for Why not IRC?) IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first. However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy comparison: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/ ) HTH, Quiddity On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user experience. Pine On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions Seb poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and people who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help
I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and not helpees. From, Emily On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any comments from the Growth and EE teams? Pine On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com wrote: The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for Why not IRC?) IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first. However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy comparison: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/ ) HTH, Quiddity On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user experience. Pine On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions Seb poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and people who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
Re: [Gendergap] [EE] [Wikitech-l] IRC web client for Wikipedia help
The chat system mentioned by Quiddity may actually decrease the number of helpees in IRC by encouraging them to use the dedicated messaging system which we hope will appeal to experienced users who will choose to join the category-based chatrooms. Or the chatrooms may fail hard. Research data about the chatroom concept would be good before committing to develop it. Pine On Aug 12, 2014 9:45 PM, Emily Monroe emilymonro...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think you realize how little helpers there actually are. A lot of responses, as is, go unanswered. We don't need increased participation in #wikipedia-en-help, unless it's increased participation from helpers and not helpees. From, Emily On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for finding that page. I don't know how much that kind of chat system would help our editor numbers but it's worth discussing. Any comments from the Growth and EE teams? Pine On Aug 12, 2014 8:10 PM, quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com wrote: The pro and cons of web-chat, and some technical options are collated at: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Live_Chat_System (especially the 2nd-to-last section, for Why not IRC?) IRC makes followup discussion, or time-delayed discussion, too difficult, if the user doesn't use their identical username, and state their home-wiki. Also, it shows IPs if users don't obtain a cloak first. However, just for informational purposes, here are links for easy comparison: https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/test http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#test ( the default client uses http://www.qwebirc.org/ ) HTH, Quiddity On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:45 AM, Pine W wiki.p...@gmail.com wrote: That proposal could be considered in the long term, but right now we have plenty of people who seek and get help on IRC, and we can make incremental improvements to their experience faster than we can build a new tool from scratch. Few newbies fail hard at IRC. The basics are similar to texting and private instant messaging software. Let's improve the newbie user experience. Pine On Aug 11, 2014 1:48 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: Newbies are going to fail hard at IRC. Pretty much all of the questions Seb poses for a built-in newbie chat still exist with a built-in Freenode interface, with the addition of a complicated and often difficult (not to mention culturally... unique) environment. Much better to think along the lines of the Teahouse, but live. You can jump into a chat queue, and people who want to help chat with you, and you can close the chat whenever you want, and you can't contact people outside of the queue using chat. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ EE mailing list e...@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ee ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap ___ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
