[GNC] (no subject)

[Peter Klassen]

Hi Derek

Once again your response was excellent. I have a combined tax table but how
do I split the tax to show separately at the end of the invoice for all the
items.
pardon my ignorance.

Peter Klassen
peita...@gmail.com
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[GNC] (no subject)

[was698002 via gnucash-user]

 Can confirm that error persists as of 12/16/2023 and says- 
>We're unable to complete your request. To download USAA account transactions 
>into Quicken, you'll need to verify your information. Get Access ID and PIN 
>here https://df3cx-services.1fsapi.com/casm/usaa/enrol 
and that clicking that address results ib-
    
error    "invalid_request"
error_description    "Validation error"
Henry

  1. Re:  USAA OFX Direct Connect stopped working (john)


--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 09:23:32 -0800
From: john 
To: John Haiducek 
Cc: GNU Cash User 
Subject: Re: [GNC] USAA OFX Direct Connect stopped working
Message-ID: <2db4db9d-381e-48f5-b909-416ef04c0...@ceridwen.us>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii



> On Dec 14, 2023, at 20:43, John Haiducek  wrote:
> 
> Downloading transactions from USAA accounts stopped working for me today.
> In the past I've been able to restore access by following the instructions
> at https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/OFX_Direct_Connect_Bank_Settings#USAA and
> getting an accessid from http://usaa.com/accessid or
> https://df3cx-services.1fsapi.com/casm/usaa/enroll. However, now both of
> those websites redirect to a page that returns the following in JSON:
> 
> {
> "error": "invalid_request",
> "error_description": "Validation error"
> }
> 
> Does anyone know a workaround for this? Is there an updated URL I can use?

I had the same problem yesterday. I worked around it by downloading a CSV of 
the transactions from the account and importing that instead.

It's possible that it's just a glitch that will get corrected in a few days. If 
not we'll need someone with Quicken and Wireshark to snarf the new secret 
handshake.

Regards,
John Ralls


  

|  | Virus-free.www.avast.com |

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[GNC] (no subject)

[Paras Desai]

Hello sirs

I am using GNUcash, i have encountered two problems

1. Posting of share purchase through stock assist not working. After I enter 
all details, i get no errors. Then i press apply, and when i check back the 
stock ledger or Bank account, no transaction is posted. I have to post the 
share purchase ttadrional ways with split account

2. Stock prices are not updating regularly. It updates randomly. Some times 
only few stock updates,some time nothing happens.

I am from India and i have configured PROPERLY the online quote.

Are these bugs? Or am I missing something?

Will appreciate your kind support

Thanks

Paras

>From India
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[GNC] (no subject)

[WD]

   https://www.qantas.com/holidays?alt_cam=gl:qd:in:travelapp:::book-holid
   ays:book:holiday:na:flight_source=qf_app_medium=referral_ca
   mpaign=appcard_holiday_tile_content=qff_app_home_page_id=qft
   ravelapp
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Fred Tydeman]

I would like to produce reports that show:
  money spent on meals, hotels, ...
  money spend on various trips

In Quicken, the transactions were coded as:
  Expense:meals/home
  Expense:meals/20210112
  Expense:hotel/20210112
  Expense:meals/20210215
  Expense:hotel/20210215
using both Categories (what) and Classes (which trip, if any).
I understand the Classes are not currently supported in gnucash.

In gnucash, I can see two ways to do the setup:
  Expense:meals:home
  Expense:meals:20210112
  Expense:hotel:20210112
  Expense:meals:20210215
  Expense:hotel:20210215
Or
  Expense:home:meals
  Expense:20210112:meals
  Expense:20210112:hotel
  Expense:20210215:meals
  Expense:20210215:hotel
But, there might be a better way.  Suggestions?

If I do either of those two setups, will I be
able to produce all the reports I want?
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Re: [GNC] Subject: Re: Keeping tenant accounts on Gnucash - periodic 'rent owing' ?

[arthur brogard via gnucash-user]

I've just finally found the 'reply to all' feature of yahoo...  I'm getting 
there..

That's interesting about the mail merge.  I will look into it. Thanks.
Sound like it might be the thing.  Bit of a hassle setting up the document but 
from then on
Meanwhile I'll play with gnucash.  Learn a bit.  Make an account for him.  
Credit with his payments.  I or gnucash will debit cash at bank I suppose.
And need another account for what he owes? That increments every week - can't 
be done is what I've learned here?  And that would be an 'accounts receivable'  
account?
Where's the double entry for that?  If it increments $200 for rent where's the 
other entry?  In his actual account?  Credit acc. rec.  and debit his account?
Then if that's so how does it get wiped out?  He pays: I credit his account, 
good, balance goes to zero.  I debit cash at banks.  Good, the two entries 
match.
But the incremented 'accounts payable' remains with the credited $200 and 
they're just mounting up. 

Is that how it works?


On Tuesday, 8 March 2022, 09:57:35 am ACDT, D.  wrote: 
 
 
 With your system, you could use your spreadsheet as a data source for a Word 
mail merge document that would fill in the receipt information from the 
spreadsheet. No editing necessary, just process the single entry to a new 
document (or pdf). Probably could have a calculated cell in Excel for balance 
due as well. 

It ain't Gnucash, but it might make you happier...

DavidFrom: arthur brogard via gnucash-user 
Sent: Mon Mar 07 14:35:44 EST 2022
To: "gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org" 
Subject: [GNC] Subject: Re: Keeping tenant accounts on Gnucash - periodic 'rent 
owing' ?


Thanks for these inputs.  Hope I haven't done anything wrong.  I'm still 
blundering around trying to understand how to work the mailing list thing.
It all looks too complicated to me.  Not worth the hassle. 

I'll tell you what I"ve got right now:
  I have a spreadsheet that I enter money received,  date received,  payer 
into. It shows me then immediately which weeks rents have been pad and what the 
balance is at that rent day.
If they've paid money for 'other', i.e. not rent money, I enter that amount 
into 'other' and only the rent amount into rent.
The 'other' bit is not automated at all.  I have to eyeball it and calculate 
balance each time.  

So I enter their payment in there and see what balances I've got.
Then I go to Word and pick up the last receipt I sent them and I modify it to 
suit this week's numbers.  And save it with the date of it.  Hence I've got a 
record of every receipt sent and I've got the spreadsheet.
The receipts, I know, are not required by law because they pay by direct 
deposit.  But I prefer to do it that way.  

Now the pain is modifying that receipt.
If I could have an account where I simply enter the receipt and it shows me the 
balance and I print that out as a receipt that'd be great.
That account would have to have automatically incremented the 'amount due' as 
the real life dates passed. 

Well, two balances:  the rent and the 'other'.
That's all I'm after.
When I asked I really thought I'd get a reply saying that all such cases of 
meeting period payments, recording them, printing out statements of account and 
receipts are done by 'such and such' software or 'this and that' feature of 
gnucash.
I realise (now) I'm making things abnormal in that my 'receipt' is really a 
receipt AND a statement, isn't it?  

A plain receipt would be easy as pie.  

No.  I need more than that.  Everything has to be crystal clear to this tenant. 
What he's paid for rent, what for other, what the balances are when the next 
payment is due,  which weeks have been paid for.
What I will do is start using gnucash with my present state of knowledge and 
just find out what happens.  See how I go.
I'll use cash accounting I guess.  See no need for accrual as best I hazily 
remember my accounting. (It was over 20 years ago).  

Do we have to tell gnucash which we're using or its all in how we enter things?
Thanks for all the interest and help.


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Re: [GNC] Subject: Re: Keeping tenant accounts on Gnucash - periodic 'rent owing' ?

[D. via gnucash-user]

With your system, you could use your spreadsheet as a data source for a Word 
mail merge document that would fill in the receipt information from the 
spreadsheet. No editing necessary, just process the single entry to a new 
document (or pdf). Probably could have a calculated cell in Excel for balance 
due as well. 

It ain't Gnucash, but it might make you happier...

David


 Original Message 
From: arthur brogard via gnucash-user 
Sent: Mon Mar 07 14:35:44 EST 2022
To: "gnucash-u...@lists.gnucash.org" 
Subject: [GNC] Subject: Re: Keeping tenant accounts on Gnucash - periodic 'rent 
owing' ?


Thanks for these inputs.  Hope I haven't done anything wrong.  I'm still 
blundering around trying to understand how to work the mailing list thing.
It all looks too complicated to me.  Not worth the hassle. 

I'll tell you what I"ve got right now:
  I have a spreadsheet that I enter money received,  date received,  payer 
into. It shows me then immediately which weeks rents have been pad and what the 
balance is at that rent day.
If they've paid money for 'other', i.e. not rent money, I enter that amount 
into 'other' and only the rent amount into rent.
The 'other' bit is not automated at all.  I have to eyeball it and calculate 
balance each time.  

So I enter their payment in there and see what balances I've got.
Then I go to Word and pick up the last receipt I sent them and I modify it to 
suit this week's numbers.  And save it with the date of it.  Hence I've got a 
record of every receipt sent and I've got the spreadsheet.
The receipts, I know, are not required by law because they pay by direct 
deposit.  But I prefer to do it that way.  

Now the pain is modifying that receipt.
If I could have an account where I simply enter the receipt and it shows me the 
balance and I print that out as a receipt that'd be great.
That account would have to have automatically incremented the 'amount due' as 
the real life dates passed. 

Well, two balances:  the rent and the 'other'.
That's all I'm after.
When I asked I really thought I'd get a reply saying that all such cases of 
meeting period payments, recording them, printing out statements of account and 
receipts are done by 'such and such' software or 'this and that' feature of 
gnucash.
I realise (now) I'm making things abnormal in that my 'receipt' is really a 
receipt AND a statement, isn't it?  

A plain receipt would be easy as pie.  

No.  I need more than that.  Everything has to be crystal clear to this tenant. 
What he's paid for rent, what for other, what the balances are when the next 
payment is due,  which weeks have been paid for.
What I will do is start using gnucash with my present state of knowledge and 
just find out what happens.  See how I go.
I'll use cash accounting I guess.  See no need for accrual as best I hazily 
remember my accounting. (It was over 20 years ago).  

Do we have to tell gnucash which we're using or its all in how we enter things?
Thanks for all the interest and help.

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Re: [GNC] Subject: Re: Keeping tenant accounts on Gnucash - periodic 'rent owing' ?

[davidcousens49]

Arthur,

The option of using cash or accrual accounting is not necessarily totally a
choice on your part. It will likely depend upon the taxation legislation in your
jurisdiction. Many jurisdictions have a threshold on either turnover or income
below which the individual business has the option of either cash or accrual
accounting and above which you are obliged to use accrual accounting.  In
Australia the current threshold is an aggregated turnover of $10,000,000 but
your local jurisdiction may be very different. You should seek advice from a
local accountant.

In GnuCash, the Business Features assume and use accrual accounting principles.
You could circumvent that to some extent by creating and posting the
invoice/bill at the date  when you receive or make the payment.  The accounts
receivable/payable can be setup and operated manually if you do not or cannot
use the business features.

If you are not using the Business features then the major difference is in when
you recognize (i.e. the date at which you record the event in your books) income
or expenses. In accrual accounting this is when the income is deemed to be
earned or when the expense is incurred and may be different from the receipt or
payment of monies. In cash accounting it is simply when you make or receive the
payment.

If you have an existing spreadsheet system working, I would suggest running the
two in parallel for a while until you are confident that GnuCash is giving what
you want and need and you can duplicate the functionality. 

The main thing is to clearly identify what you need for your own tax purposes,
any business reporting required of you, reporting to the tenant and whether this
is a routine statement or ad hoc as required and what you need for your own
management purposes. This will help to define the required Chart of Accounts
structure.

Not sure what the "other" covers in your case but presumably this is the
provision of some sort of services to the tenant/property. You could deal with
this in GnuCash by having separate income sub-accounts for rent and any other
services you provide to the tenant. Using the description field for a
transaction and the memo fields for each split of the transaction appropriately
can allow you to use the various filter and search capabilities in GnuCash and
the reports/report options. 

David Cousens

On Mon, 2022-03-07 at 19:35 +, arthur brogard via gnucash-user wrote:
> Thanks for these inputs.  Hope I haven't done anything wrong.  I'm still
> blundering around trying to understand how to work the mailing list thing.
> It all looks too complicated to me.  Not worth the hassle. 
> 
> I'll tell you what I"ve got right now:
>   I have a spreadsheet that I enter money received,  date received,  payer
> into. It shows me then immediately which weeks rents have been pad and what
> the balance is at that rent day.
> If they've paid money for 'other', i.e. not rent money, I enter that amount
> into 'other' and only the rent amount into rent.
> The 'other' bit is not automated at all.  I have to eyeball it and calculate
> balance each time.  
> 
> So I enter their payment in there and see what balances I've got.
> Then I go to Word and pick up the last receipt I sent them and I modify it to
> suit this week's numbers.  And save it with the date of it.  Hence I've got a
> record of every receipt sent and I've got the spreadsheet.
> The receipts, I know, are not required by law because they pay by direct
> deposit.  But I prefer to do it that way.  
> 
> Now the pain is modifying that receipt.
> If I could have an account where I simply enter the receipt and it shows me
> the balance and I print that out as a receipt that'd be great.
> That account would have to have automatically incremented the 'amount due' as
> the real life dates passed. 
> 
> Well, two balances:  the rent and the 'other'.
> That's all I'm after.
> When I asked I really thought I'd get a reply saying that all such cases of
> meeting period payments, recording them, printing out statements of account
> and receipts are done by 'such and such' software or 'this and that' feature
> of gnucash.
> I realise (now) I'm making things abnormal in that my 'receipt' is really a
> receipt AND a statement, isn't it?  
> 
> A plain receipt would be easy as pie.  
> 
> No.  I need more than that.  Everything has to be crystal clear to this
> tenant. What he's paid for rent, what for other, what the balances are when
> the next payment is due,  which weeks have been paid for.
> What I will do is start using gnucash with my present state of knowledge and
> just find out what happens.  See how I go.
> I'll use cash accounting I guess.  See no need for accrual as best I hazily
> remember my accounting. (It was over 20 years ago).  
> 
> Do we have to tell gnucash which we're using or its all in how we enter
> things?
> Thanks for all the interest and help.
> 
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> 

[GNC] Subject: Re: Keeping tenant accounts on Gnucash - periodic 'rent owing' ?

[arthur brogard via gnucash-user]

Thanks for these inputs.  Hope I haven't done anything wrong.  I'm still 
blundering around trying to understand how to work the mailing list thing.
It all looks too complicated to me.  Not worth the hassle. 

I'll tell you what I"ve got right now:
  I have a spreadsheet that I enter money received,  date received,  payer 
into. It shows me then immediately which weeks rents have been pad and what the 
balance is at that rent day.
If they've paid money for 'other', i.e. not rent money, I enter that amount 
into 'other' and only the rent amount into rent.
The 'other' bit is not automated at all.  I have to eyeball it and calculate 
balance each time.  

So I enter their payment in there and see what balances I've got.
Then I go to Word and pick up the last receipt I sent them and I modify it to 
suit this week's numbers.  And save it with the date of it.  Hence I've got a 
record of every receipt sent and I've got the spreadsheet.
The receipts, I know, are not required by law because they pay by direct 
deposit.  But I prefer to do it that way.  

Now the pain is modifying that receipt.
If I could have an account where I simply enter the receipt and it shows me the 
balance and I print that out as a receipt that'd be great.
That account would have to have automatically incremented the 'amount due' as 
the real life dates passed. 

Well, two balances:  the rent and the 'other'.
That's all I'm after.
When I asked I really thought I'd get a reply saying that all such cases of 
meeting period payments, recording them, printing out statements of account and 
receipts are done by 'such and such' software or 'this and that' feature of 
gnucash.
I realise (now) I'm making things abnormal in that my 'receipt' is really a 
receipt AND a statement, isn't it?  

A plain receipt would be easy as pie.  

No.  I need more than that.  Everything has to be crystal clear to this tenant. 
What he's paid for rent, what for other, what the balances are when the next 
payment is due,  which weeks have been paid for.
What I will do is start using gnucash with my present state of knowledge and 
just find out what happens.  See how I go.
I'll use cash accounting I guess.  See no need for accrual as best I hazily 
remember my accounting. (It was over 20 years ago).  

Do we have to tell gnucash which we're using or its all in how we enter things?
Thanks for all the interest and help.

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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 2/22/2022 1:31 PM, Steve Butler wrote:

Please plan a compressive backup strategy for your entire system.  Include
email, Libre Office documents, other misc files and not just GnuCash.

That way it won't matter where files are "hidden" as you will have a
complete backup strategy that isn't specific to any particular application.

I second that. Your problem is not how to back up all of your gnucash 
data but ALL of your user data. You need a comprehensive plan. As for 
where your user data is, going to be somewhere in your user directory. 
If you make a backup of that, you have made a backup of all your user data.


Your real decisions should be things like "how often do I make backups" 
and how long each type kept. Thus I keep "year end" backups forever, the 
monthly backups for more than a year.  If you are also making more 
frequent backups think in terms of when they would be have been 
duplicated by one of the longer term backups.


Give serious consideration to making copies of the longer term backups 
that can live off site (at least in another building). In 2006 I had a 
house fire. Everything i the room that burned was of course toast, but 
devices and medium in other parts of the house were damaged by smoke and 
water. Only about half  back-up data could be recovered (and my 
insurance DID have coverage to pay a data recovery lab to try). :Learned 
my lesson. Now a second copy (another external drive) "lives" in a fire 
box inside a dead fridge in the barn-garage.


Michael


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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[davidcousens49]

On Tue, 2022-02-22 at 10:49 -0700, Mario Nigrovic wrote:
> Many years ago, I had used gnucash, and was pretty happy with it. I was
> very careful to make regular backups of my data, and so, when my disk
> inevitably crashed, I was not too worried. However, I was mortified to
> discover that, although all my transaction data had been saved, all my
> custom reports were lost, as they had been stored separately in a secret
> undisclosed location, I later discovered to be elsewhere in my home
> directory.
Mario, 

The locations are neither secret or undisclosed 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations although they may not have
been documented when you last used GnuCash.  

User preference settings however are stored in a different manner on the various
OSs that GNucash runs on. 
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v4/C/gnucash-guide/basics-migrate-settings.html#:~:text=GnuCash%20preferences%20are%20stored%20in,machine%20to%20migrate%20your%20preferences.=On%20Unix%20and%20macOS%20%2C%20these,display%20in%20the%20file%20manager
.

The location of the data file is a matter of your own choice. Would suggest a
directory/folder for each separate data file/set of books you operate keeping
the backups and log files in the same directory. I have a directory which is the
parent of the separate directories for each set of books which simplifies
backups to NAS and cloud and synchronizing desktop and laptop without having to
specify the individual sub directories.

A full backup would also need to backup the above locations as well as the data
file. Easily done with bash scripts run by cron jobs in Linux.
> 
> Recently, I have decided to try again to use gnucash, but I would like very
> much to ensure ALL my data is backed up. So I hit upon the idea of running
> the tool under a custom value of $HOME, but I was then shocked to discover
> that even with this method, gnucash was able to remember previous locations
> of my database file, which suggests that the tool is also using some kind
> of other mechanism to save historical data, and that makes me very nervous
> about actually being able to do proper backups of everything related to the
> tool.
GnuCash remembers the last location of the last data file opened. This is
intentional behaviour primarily for the convenience of the majority of users. It
is stored as a path to the last file opened and no financial data is stored
anywhere else but in the data file.  You can always use the menu File->Open
dialogue to override and change between different sets of books if you deal with
multiple financial entities.  If you backup the datafile and its local backups
and log files, you can restore to any point in the date range covered. I also
backup to an onsite NAS and off site cloud storage periodically as well as
synchronizing between several computers. This is fairly easy to setup either
with utilities like Unison or with cron jobs running Bash scripts in Linux and
likely with similar utilities on Windows and MacOSX.

> Doing some sleuthing using strace, I was able to find the previous database
> location delivered through some socket connection, and that really scares
> me, since it is now possible critical data is stored via some other Linux
> service and I will have no way to trace out where this may be to avoid
> future nasty surprises.
> I have not seen any documentation about backup strategies other than the
> aromatic saving of previous data files, yet I do see that there was data
> being stored at least in ~/.local, so I'm hoping someone on this list may
> be able to point me to some more thorough discussion of ALL the places user
> data from gnucash may be stored.
See the above links.

David Cousens
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> -- Mario
> 
> -- Mario
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Stephen M. Butler]

On 2/22/22 11:24, Thomas Boerner wrote:

Mario,

under Linux Gnucash stores its settings using dconf. You can view them with the 
dconf-editor). Inside dconf you will find your gnucash settings, including the 
file history, under org/gnucash/GnuCash (Older versions of GNC used 
org.gnucash).
In the filesystem it's in ~/.config/dconf/user, so this is the file you are looking for. 
Since nearly all applications store their user related settings under ~/.config/, it's 
worth a thought to backup this folder entirely (including "hidden" files with 
names starting with a period).
But I agree Steve that it's an even better idea to backup your whole home 
directory on a regular base.

Thomas

I added these commands to my .profile file so the backup will even get a 
list of current installed packages:


dpkg --get-selections > .BackupInfo/Package.list
rm -rf .BackupInfo/etc-apt/*
cp -R /etc/apt/* .BackupInfo/etc-apt
apt-key exportall > .BackupInfo/Repo.keys 2> /dev/null

So those run every time I log into my user account.  The nightly backup 
(deja vu) sends it's output to a NAS sitting on the network. That NAS is 
backed up regularly to off-line storage in one of my out-buildings.



--
Stephen M Butler, PMP, PSM
stephen.m.butle...@gmail.com
kg...@arrl.net
253-350-0166
---
GnuPG Fingerprint:  8A25 9726 D439 758D D846 E5D4 282A 5477 0385 81D8

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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[David Carlson]

Mario,

The GnuCash developers are not keeping any secrets about where your data is
stored.   If you read your help manual and refer to the very detailed FAQ
on the website you will find out that GnuCash stores some "user" type
information in a location separate from your data.

Your custom report settings and other settings that could apply to multiple
data sets if you have any  and seldom change after you set them up are
included.

It is not a secret location known only to Linus Pauling and a few of his
friends.

Over the years the details have evolved and they vary depending on the
operating system environment and GnuCash release schedule.

There are instructions on what is stored,  where it is stored and how to
back it up.

There are also instructions for migrating the settings from one OS to
another  should you ever need them.

I don't think they suggest a specific backup schedule,  but if you rarely
change your saved report settings,  then once a month would probably work
fine.  For me, twice a year and after I change my datakeeping habits is
fine.

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 12:32 PM Steve Butler  wrote:

> Please plan a compressive backup strategy for your entire system.  Include
> email, Libre Office documents, other misc files and not just GnuCash.
>
> That way it won't matter where files are "hidden" as you will have a
> complete backup strategy that isn't specific to any particular application.
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 09:51 Mario Nigrovic  wrote:
>
> > Many years ago, I had used gnucash, and was pretty happy with it. I was
> > very careful to make regular backups of my data, and so, when my disk
> > inevitably crashed, I was not too worried. However, I was mortified to
> > discover that, although all my transaction data had been saved, all my
> > custom reports were lost, as they had been stored separately in a secret
> > undisclosed location, I later discovered to be elsewhere in my home
> > directory.
> >
> > Recently, I have decided to try again to use gnucash, but I would like
> very
> > much to ensure ALL my data is backed up. So I hit upon the idea of
> running
> > the tool under a custom value of $HOME, but I was then shocked to
> discover
> > that even with this method, gnucash was able to remember previous
> locations
> > of my database file, which suggests that the tool is also using some kind
> > of other mechanism to save historical data, and that makes me very
> nervous
> > about actually being able to do proper backups of everything related to
> the
> > tool.
> > Doing some sleuthing using strace, I was able to find the previous
> database
> > location delivered through some socket connection, and that really scares
> > me, since it is now possible critical data is stored via some other Linux
> > service and I will have no way to trace out where this may be to avoid
> > future nasty surprises.
> > I have not seen any documentation about backup strategies other than the
> > aromatic saving of previous data files, yet I do see that there was data
> > being stored at least in ~/.local, so I'm hoping someone on this list may
> > be able to point me to some more thorough discussion of ALL the places
> user
> > data from gnucash may be stored.
> > Thanks for your help!
> >
> > -- Mario
> >
> > -- Mario
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Thomas Boerner]

Mario,

under Linux Gnucash stores its settings using dconf. You can view them with the 
dconf-editor). Inside dconf you will find your gnucash settings, including the 
file history, under org/gnucash/GnuCash (Older versions of GNC used 
org.gnucash).
In the filesystem it's in ~/.config/dconf/user, so this is the file you are 
looking for. Since nearly all applications store their user related settings 
under ~/.config/, it's worth a thought to backup this folder entirely 
(including "hidden" files with names starting with a period).
But I agree Steve that it's an even better idea to backup your whole home 
directory on a regular base.

Thomas

Am Dienstag, 22. Februar 2022, 18:49:42 CET schrieb Mario Nigrovic:
> Many years ago, I had used gnucash, and was pretty happy with it. I was
> very careful to make regular backups of my data, and so, when my disk
> inevitably crashed, I was not too worried. However, I was mortified to
> discover that, although all my transaction data had been saved, all my
> custom reports were lost, as they had been stored separately in a secret
> undisclosed location, I later discovered to be elsewhere in my home
> directory.
> 
> Recently, I have decided to try again to use gnucash, but I would like very
> much to ensure ALL my data is backed up. So I hit upon the idea of running
> the tool under a custom value of $HOME, but I was then shocked to discover
> that even with this method, gnucash was able to remember previous locations
> of my database file, which suggests that the tool is also using some kind
> of other mechanism to save historical data, and that makes me very nervous
> about actually being able to do proper backups of everything related to the
> tool.
> Doing some sleuthing using strace, I was able to find the previous database
> location delivered through some socket connection, and that really scares
> me, since it is now possible critical data is stored via some other Linux
> service and I will have no way to trace out where this may be to avoid
> future nasty surprises.
> I have not seen any documentation about backup strategies other than the
> aromatic saving of previous data files, yet I do see that there was data
> being stored at least in ~/.local, so I'm hoping someone on this list may
> be able to point me to some more thorough discussion of ALL the places user
> data from gnucash may be stored.
> Thanks for your help!
> 
> -- Mario
> 
> -- Mario
> ___
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> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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> 




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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Adrien Monteleone]

Mario,

The wiki describes all locations used by GnuCash for each OS. You can 
use that info to fine tune your backups.


Regards,
Adrien

On 2/22/22 11:49 AM, Mario Nigrovic wrote:

Many years ago, I had used gnucash, and was pretty happy with it. I was
very careful to make regular backups of my data, and so, when my disk
inevitably crashed, I was not too worried. However, I was mortified to
discover that, although all my transaction data had been saved, all my
custom reports were lost, as they had been stored separately in a secret
undisclosed location, I later discovered to be elsewhere in my home
directory.

Recently, I have decided to try again to use gnucash, but I would like very
much to ensure ALL my data is backed up. So I hit upon the idea of running
the tool under a custom value of $HOME, but I was then shocked to discover
that even with this method, gnucash was able to remember previous locations
of my database file, which suggests that the tool is also using some kind
of other mechanism to save historical data, and that makes me very nervous
about actually being able to do proper backups of everything related to the
tool.
Doing some sleuthing using strace, I was able to find the previous database
location delivered through some socket connection, and that really scares
me, since it is now possible critical data is stored via some other Linux
service and I will have no way to trace out where this may be to avoid
future nasty surprises.
I have not seen any documentation about backup strategies other than the
aromatic saving of previous data files, yet I do see that there was data
being stored at least in ~/.local, so I'm hoping someone on this list may
be able to point me to some more thorough discussion of ALL the places user
data from gnucash may be stored.


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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Steve Butler]

Please plan a compressive backup strategy for your entire system.  Include
email, Libre Office documents, other misc files and not just GnuCash.

That way it won't matter where files are "hidden" as you will have a
complete backup strategy that isn't specific to any particular application.

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 09:51 Mario Nigrovic  wrote:

> Many years ago, I had used gnucash, and was pretty happy with it. I was
> very careful to make regular backups of my data, and so, when my disk
> inevitably crashed, I was not too worried. However, I was mortified to
> discover that, although all my transaction data had been saved, all my
> custom reports were lost, as they had been stored separately in a secret
> undisclosed location, I later discovered to be elsewhere in my home
> directory.
>
> Recently, I have decided to try again to use gnucash, but I would like very
> much to ensure ALL my data is backed up. So I hit upon the idea of running
> the tool under a custom value of $HOME, but I was then shocked to discover
> that even with this method, gnucash was able to remember previous locations
> of my database file, which suggests that the tool is also using some kind
> of other mechanism to save historical data, and that makes me very nervous
> about actually being able to do proper backups of everything related to the
> tool.
> Doing some sleuthing using strace, I was able to find the previous database
> location delivered through some socket connection, and that really scares
> me, since it is now possible critical data is stored via some other Linux
> service and I will have no way to trace out where this may be to avoid
> future nasty surprises.
> I have not seen any documentation about backup strategies other than the
> aromatic saving of previous data files, yet I do see that there was data
> being stored at least in ~/.local, so I'm hoping someone on this list may
> be able to point me to some more thorough discussion of ALL the places user
> data from gnucash may be stored.
> Thanks for your help!
>
> -- Mario
>
> -- Mario
> ___
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> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Mario Nigrovic]

Many years ago, I had used gnucash, and was pretty happy with it. I was
very careful to make regular backups of my data, and so, when my disk
inevitably crashed, I was not too worried. However, I was mortified to
discover that, although all my transaction data had been saved, all my
custom reports were lost, as they had been stored separately in a secret
undisclosed location, I later discovered to be elsewhere in my home
directory.

Recently, I have decided to try again to use gnucash, but I would like very
much to ensure ALL my data is backed up. So I hit upon the idea of running
the tool under a custom value of $HOME, but I was then shocked to discover
that even with this method, gnucash was able to remember previous locations
of my database file, which suggests that the tool is also using some kind
of other mechanism to save historical data, and that makes me very nervous
about actually being able to do proper backups of everything related to the
tool.
Doing some sleuthing using strace, I was able to find the previous database
location delivered through some socket connection, and that really scares
me, since it is now possible critical data is stored via some other Linux
service and I will have no way to trace out where this may be to avoid
future nasty surprises.
I have not seen any documentation about backup strategies other than the
aromatic saving of previous data files, yet I do see that there was data
being stored at least in ~/.local, so I'm hoping someone on this list may
be able to point me to some more thorough discussion of ALL the places user
data from gnucash may be stored.
Thanks for your help!

-- Mario

-- Mario
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[davidcousens49]

Jesse,

It would appear that you are trying to setup the accounts to reflect the entry
for part 3D of the Statement of Business Activities in the tax form. This is not
the right way to go about setting up a process for obtaining the desired
information. 

The opening and closing Inventory values will be derived from the
Assets:Inventory: accounts. The purchase information will Ccome from an Expense
account associated to purchases of inventory. The wage costs will come form an
Expense account for wages associated with the production of your goods for sale.

These accounts should be in their normal positions under the top level accounts
Assets, Liabilities, Equity, Income and Expense. Setting up the appropriate
account structure for a manufacturing business is a very specialized endeavour
which will depend upon the structure and operational aspects of the business and
is highly dependent of business taxation rules in your jurisdiction. This is
something you will need professional accounting advice to setup appropriately
for a manufacturing business preferrably from an accountant specialized in cost
management accounting. If you do wish to learn more about it yourself something
like Cost Management - Accounting and Control by Hansen and Mowen is an
appropriate starting point but it starts from an assumption of a good basic
 knowledge of general Financial Accounting (usually comes up 2nd - 3rd year in
an accounting degree course).

Instead of rearranging the accounts,the way to do this is to create a custom
report which extracts the required information from the necessary accounts in
the CoA.

David Cousens 


On Sun, 2021-12-19 at 10:05 -0800, Jesse MacDougall wrote:
> Thanks for the reply Mike.  After reading your message I realize I should
> have shown what I am building this set of Financial Statements(FS) from.
> I am making this set of FS congruent to Canada Revenue Agency's GIFI codes
> for self employment tax payers.
> 
> The .pdf shows the estic I am trying to achieve.
> Does that make sense?
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 7:53 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> > On 12/19/2021 2:11 AM, Jesse MacDougall wrote:
> > > I am trying to add a "label"(not sure if that is the right word) on
> > Income
> > > Statement "Cost of Goods Sold" and put accounts under COGS.  Like there
> > is
> > > with "Total Revenue".  What is happening is COGS is a parent account with
> > > sub accounts but I want to make COGS a label.
> > >I am trying to achieve a bolded "COGS" on the IS.  I don't see
> > anywhere
> > > to achieve this.  Been stuck on this a few hours.  I have COGS as a
> > > placeholder currently.  Here is what I see:
> > 
> > You really need to start with a "fundamentals of bookkeeping, an
> > "accounting 101" sort of text.
> > 
> > a) You seem to have some sort of "business" embedded in a set of
> > personal books. I can understand WHY you might want to do that (they
> > share a bank account)
> > 
> > b) I have no idea what your (tax) reporting requirements might be and
> > how that affects "a real business" vs a very much side operation liable
> > to be classed as a "hobby" << important for over here as while both
> > businesses and hobbies pay tax on profits, only businesses can deduct
> > losses from other income >>
> > 
> > c) Inventory should be under assets, expensed as used, not as bought.
> > 
> > d) Because a CoA can have only one structure (one tree hierarchy) when
> > you choose to embed the business books into your personal books you will
> > NOT be able to produce a simple "Statement of Revenues and Expenses".
> > Same with the "Balance Sheet". In other words, you will probably want to
> > run multiple using account selection to disentangle accounts.
> > 
> > Michael D Novack
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> 
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[R. Victor Klassen]

What most people have found - and someone would be sure to say eventually - is 
that to get reports formulated exactly as you want them, you pretty much need 
to export them to a spreadsheet or even a word processor table, and manipulate 
them from there.   GnuCash will handle the numbers, and even give you a number 
of reports, but it won’t give you all the options you need/want regarding 
formatting.

Regarding the inventory in/out if you have inventory as an asset, then running 
a balance sheet at the start and end of the year will give you the two numbers 
you want.  Not all in one report matching Form T2125, but you need to fill that 
out by hand in the end anyhow.  

There’s a certain amount if creative accounting required for inventory anyhow, 
since you can take raw materials at the price you paid for them and finished 
goods at the price you expect to sell them for, but goods in process is not so 
cut and dried.  If none of your end of year inventory remains by the time you 
file a few months later, you will have real values for everything, but in the 
more likely case, you don’t know how much of that inventory really is worth its 
original value.   I expect GnuCash for things that can really be measured - 
cash, funds in the bank - and treat inventory as something for spreadsheets.  
It’s not that you can’t  do what you’re setting out to do, it’s that GnuCash 
isn’t designed to do full inventory management for you, and if that’s what you 
need, you should find something that is.  If it isn’t what you need, it’s a 
once a year thing to satisfy the CRA, and not worth the detailed tracking that 
following inventory through every transaction would give you.   But that’s a 
choice.

 

> On Dec 19, 2021, at 1:05 PM, Jesse MacDougall  
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reply Mike.  After reading your message I realize I should
> have shown what I am building this set of Financial Statements(FS) from.
> I am making this set of FS congruent to Canada Revenue Agency's GIFI codes
> for self employment tax payers.
> 
> The .pdf shows the estic I am trying to achieve.
> Does that make sense?
> 
> 
> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 7:53 AM Michael or Penny Novack <
> stepbystepf...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> On 12/19/2021 2:11 AM, Jesse MacDougall wrote:
>>> I am trying to add a "label"(not sure if that is the right word) on
>> Income
>>> Statement "Cost of Goods Sold" and put accounts under COGS.  Like there
>> is
>>> with "Total Revenue".  What is happening is COGS is a parent account with
>>> sub accounts but I want to make COGS a label.
>>>   I am trying to achieve a bolded "COGS" on the IS.  I don't see
>> anywhere
>>> to achieve this.  Been stuck on this a few hours.  I have COGS as a
>>> placeholder currently.  Here is what I see:
>> 
>> You really need to start with a "fundamentals of bookkeeping, an
>> "accounting 101" sort of text.
>> 
>> a) You seem to have some sort of "business" embedded in a set of
>> personal books. I can understand WHY you might want to do that (they
>> share a bank account)
>> 
>> b) I have no idea what your (tax) reporting requirements might be and
>> how that affects "a real business" vs a very much side operation liable
>> to be classed as a "hobby" << important for over here as while both
>> businesses and hobbies pay tax on profits, only businesses can deduct
>> losses from other income >>
>> 
>> c) Inventory should be under assets, expensed as used, not as bought.
>> 
>> d) Because a CoA can have only one structure (one tree hierarchy) when
>> you choose to embed the business books into your personal books you will
>> NOT be able to produce a simple "Statement of Revenues and Expenses".
>> Same with the "Balance Sheet". In other words, you will probably want to
>> run multiple using account selection to disentangle accounts.
>> 
>> Michael D Novack
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> * Please consider adding jesse@macdougall.ninja to your address book.  This
> will be my new address.  This gmail address is being retired.
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 12/19/2021 2:11 AM, Jesse MacDougall wrote:

I am trying to add a "label"(not sure if that is the right word) on Income
Statement "Cost of Goods Sold" and put accounts under COGS.  Like there is
with "Total Revenue".  What is happening is COGS is a parent account with
sub accounts but I want to make COGS a label.
   I am trying to achieve a bolded "COGS" on the IS.  I don't see anywhere
to achieve this.  Been stuck on this a few hours.  I have COGS as a
placeholder currently.  Here is what I see:


You really need to start with a "fundamentals of bookkeeping, an 
"accounting 101" sort of text.


a) You seem to have some sort of "business" embedded in a set of 
personal books. I can understand WHY you might want to do that (they 
share a bank account)


b) I have no idea what your (tax) reporting requirements might be and 
how that affects "a real business" vs a very much side operation liable 
to be classed as a "hobby" << important for over here as while both 
businesses and hobbies pay tax on profits, only businesses can deduct 
losses from other income >>


c) Inventory should be under assets, expensed as used, not as bought.

d) Because a CoA can have only one structure (one tree hierarchy) when 
you choose to embed the business books into your personal books you will 
NOT be able to produce a simple "Statement of Revenues and Expenses". 
Same with the "Balance Sheet". In other words, you will probably want to 
run multiple using account selection to disentangle accounts.


Michael D Novack


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[GNC] (no subject)

[Jesse MacDougall]

I am trying to add a "label"(not sure if that is the right word) on Income
Statement "Cost of Goods Sold" and put accounts under COGS.  Like there is
with "Total Revenue".  What is happening is COGS is a parent account with
sub accounts but I want to make COGS a label.
  I am trying to achieve a bolded "COGS" on the IS.  I don't see anywhere
to achieve this.  Been stuck on this a few hours.  I have COGS as a
placeholder currently.  Here is what I see:



-- 
* Please consider adding jesse@macdougall.ninja to your address book.  This
will be my new address.  This gmail address is being retired.
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Re: [GNC] Subject: Re: Ubuntu binary fairly dated

[davidcousens49]

The barrier Mike is someone with the time and energy to maintain a ppa. The
reason Linux Mint (and other distros) freeze the versions they use is to reduce
their workload to maneagable proportions and to ensure that versions of other
software  included witha n OS release will at least work with that release and
libraries included in the release.

Building on Linux is not too onerous once you have the header files for the
dependencies loaded and the basic build requirements setup. The build
instructions in the wiki are pretty complete. The build procedure includes
checks on the dpeendencies which stop the build if a dependency is missing to
allow it to be fixed before restarting. A number of people have put scripts up
which will load the dependencies although these can become dated reasonably
quickly as newer GC versions can have dependencies on updated libraries that a
given script may not install.

David Cousens


On Fri, 2021-12-03 at 13:19 -0800, Mike Brady wrote:
> Have been following this thread because I use Linux Mint, which is based 
> on the LTS version of Ubuntu. Yes, the GnuCash version in the Ubuntu LTS 
> repository is way out of date (3.8). I'm out of date, even on Windows 
> (3.10 in one machine, 4.3 on the other), mainly due to laziness about 
> chasing down latest versions and wariness about file compatibility, plus 
> wanting to maintain compatibility with the LInux machine. So far, that's 
> worked. But it would be nice to have everything, at least briefly, on 
> the same version. I've built my own before, for other software, but I'd 
> rather not.
> 
> Anyway, for the Linux side, I wonder why the repository version must be 
> frozen, or if there's a workaround other than using Flatpack (which I've 
> had problems with as a platform). Libreoffice, Firefox, and Thunderbird 
> seem to be able to work around it, and their Linux versions update to 
> match the Windows version within a week (usually only a day or 2) of the 
> Windows release. Not sure how they're doing it, but it might be 
> worthwhile for GNC to try it - perhaps a separate PPA? Since Linux is 
> polite enough to ask before updating, those who don't want to update can 
> easily block it.
> 
> -Mike Brady
>   Plain Old User
> 
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[GNC] Subject: Re: Ubuntu binary fairly dated

[Mike Brady]

Have been following this thread because I use Linux Mint, which is based 
on the LTS version of Ubuntu. Yes, the GnuCash version in the Ubuntu LTS 
repository is way out of date (3.8). I'm out of date, even on Windows 
(3.10 in one machine, 4.3 on the other), mainly due to laziness about 
chasing down latest versions and wariness about file compatibility, plus 
wanting to maintain compatibility with the LInux machine. So far, that's 
worked. But it would be nice to have everything, at least briefly, on 
the same version. I've built my own before, for other software, but I'd 
rather not.


Anyway, for the Linux side, I wonder why the repository version must be 
frozen, or if there's a workaround other than using Flatpack (which I've 
had problems with as a platform). Libreoffice, Firefox, and Thunderbird 
seem to be able to work around it, and their Linux versions update to 
match the Windows version within a week (usually only a day or 2) of the 
Windows release. Not sure how they're doing it, but it might be 
worthwhile for GNC to try it - perhaps a separate PPA? Since Linux is 
polite enough to ask before updating, those who don't want to update can 
easily block it.


-Mike Brady
 Plain Old User

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[GNC] (no subject)

[ennio maresca]

Conferm
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[DaveC49]

Roger, 

The Locations for saved reports changed between V2 and V3 of GnuCash.
Details are given in the Wiki page
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Configuration_Locations#:~:text=The%20default%20locations%20are%3A,gnucash.
I think they relate to Windows 8/10 but not sure about Win 7.  There are
links there  to open diagrams which illustrate the changed locations a bit
more clearly than the text on that page.

David Cousens



--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[D. via gnucash-user]

So, perhaps you could send a screen shot of your non-working chart of accounts? 
Someone might be able to see what the problem is.

For the record, there is/was a *folder* in windows that was called ".gnucash", 
and the default extension for a gnucash data file is ".gnucash". The former 
included a number of files that controlled the software (such as 
saved-reports.x.x, which contains your saved report settings), while the latter 
is a simple file ("myaccounts.gnucash", for example) stored in a location of 
your choosing. For what it's worth, the location of the settings folder was 
changed between 2.6 and 3.0, I believe. 

David


 Original Message 
From: Roger Oliver 
Sent: Thu May 20 18:22:13 EDT 2021
To: sunfis...@yahoo.com, gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: 

Thanks David T.

Puzzling to me too. It dawned on me that the only indication we saw that
the check and repair function was working was that the menus and icons at
the top of the page were grayed out and unavailable. Probably need to give
it more time until those come back to life.

Examining the file without check and repair shows the arrows to the left of
the accounts on the chart of accounts page but they do not respond to a
click.

You are correct, saved reports means adjustments to the existing reports.
We did move the .gnucash file from the old computer to the new before
installing the 3.11 and opening the GnuCash data file. The reports didn't
show up. Wonder if the .gnucash file in Windows 10 has a different name,
maybe GnuCash. At any rate, saved reports were not there when we opened the
data file in 3.11

Roger

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:05:58 -0400
From: "D." 
To: rmom...@gmail.com
Cc: GnuCash 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Migrating and updating 2.6.21 in Windows 7 to 3.11
in Windows 10 No sub-accounts
Message-ID: <0f7274aa-55bb-4ccc-990f-ea8efbc53...@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Roger,

Your experience is exceptional,? insofar as I've never heard that
particular problem before. Your description is puzzling to me; how is it
that your top level accounts show correct balances, if the subaccounts are
not there? Something is off there...

Here are some ideas:

I'll assume that you closed gnucash after the Check & Repair and restarted
it. I know sometimes that helps unstick things.

Since you're having trouble with the canonical upgrade process, what
happens if you examine the file without performing the Check & Repair?

I am going to assume that your statement that the saved reports are not
important implies that you haven't actually written Scheme-based custom
reports (because if you'd gone down THAT rabbit hole, those reports would
be important to you), but that you have saved a number of standard reports
with basic customization, such as a subset of accounts on an income report,
or a special date range, etc. If that is the case, you could simply copy
{yourfile}.gnucash from the Windows 7 box to the new machine, and open that
with 3.11. Later, you could try to find your saved-reports.2.x fileand copy
it over to the new machine (in the new folder for version 3 and above).

If none of those fix your problem, perhaps you can send a screen shot of
the Chart of Accounts. Maybe that will shed some light...

David T.

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[GNC] (no subject)

[Roger Oliver]

Thanks David T.

Puzzling to me too. It dawned on me that the only indication we saw that
the check and repair function was working was that the menus and icons at
the top of the page were grayed out and unavailable. Probably need to give
it more time until those come back to life.

Examining the file without check and repair shows the arrows to the left of
the accounts on the chart of accounts page but they do not respond to a
click.

You are correct, saved reports means adjustments to the existing reports.
We did move the .gnucash file from the old computer to the new before
installing the 3.11 and opening the GnuCash data file. The reports didn't
show up. Wonder if the .gnucash file in Windows 10 has a different name,
maybe GnuCash. At any rate, saved reports were not there when we opened the
data file in 3.11

Roger

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 May 2021 17:05:58 -0400
From: "D." 
To: rmom...@gmail.com
Cc: GnuCash 
Subject: Re: [GNC] Migrating and updating 2.6.21 in Windows 7 to 3.11
in Windows 10 No sub-accounts
Message-ID: <0f7274aa-55bb-4ccc-990f-ea8efbc53...@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Roger,

Your experience is exceptional,? insofar as I've never heard that
particular problem before. Your description is puzzling to me; how is it
that your top level accounts show correct balances, if the subaccounts are
not there? Something is off there...

Here are some ideas:

I'll assume that you closed gnucash after the Check & Repair and restarted
it. I know sometimes that helps unstick things.

Since you're having trouble with the canonical upgrade process, what
happens if you examine the file without performing the Check & Repair?

I am going to assume that your statement that the saved reports are not
important implies that you haven't actually written Scheme-based custom
reports (because if you'd gone down THAT rabbit hole, those reports would
be important to you), but that you have saved a number of standard reports
with basic customization, such as a subset of accounts on an income report,
or a special date range, etc. If that is the case, you could simply copy
{yourfile}.gnucash from the Windows 7 box to the new machine, and open that
with 3.11. Later, you could try to find your saved-reports.2.x fileand copy
it over to the new machine (in the new folder for version 3 and above).

If none of those fix your problem, perhaps you can send a screen shot of
the Chart of Accounts. Maybe that will shed some light...

David T.
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Re: [GNC] Request: helpful subject lines, please!

[D. via gnucash-user]

Not to mention cropping out the content of said digest when starting something 
new. This is all covered in the wiki: 
https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists#Netiquette


 Original Message 
From: Stan Brown 
Sent: Mon Apr 12 10:54:16 EDT 2021
To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
Subject: [GNC] Request: helpful subject lines, please!

May I just make a request for people to use subject lines that actually
reflect the content of their message? A generic subject line like
"Re: [GNC] gnucash-user Digest, Vol 217, Issue 28"
isn't very helpful.

Thanks!

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
https://OakRoadSystems.com
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[GNC] Request: helpful subject lines, please!

[Stan Brown]

May I just make a request for people to use subject lines that actually
reflect the content of their message? A generic subject line like
"Re: [GNC] gnucash-user Digest, Vol 217, Issue 28"
isn't very helpful.

Thanks!

-- 
Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
https://OakRoadSystems.com
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[GNC] Subject Correction: How to import CSV into AP Register?

[Fran_3 via gnucash-user]

Note: When I say "Bill" here I mean a Bill from a Vendor to us.
I'm trying to import a CSV  file to AP and also have it create the 
corresponding Bill.I have 100+ of these to import else a lot of labor to do it 
by hand...

So... to experiment I exported the Entities AP register as a CSV file.Then 
deleted all transactions except one... just to keep it simple.So now I have 3 
comma separated lines...- Column Title line- Transaction 1 line 1- Transaction 
1 line 2
Now with the AP register still open I click...File > Import > Transactions from 
a CSV fileI then...- select the file to import- tell the importer to ignore 
line 1... the Column Title line- tell the importer the date format to use
Next I start telling the importer the titles of the columns...I leave some 
column titles set to "none" like...Transaction-ID, Number, Commodity/Currency, 
Void Reason, to name a fewI do choose titles for these columns to 
import...Date, Description, Notes, Action, Memo, 

Now I'm stuck...The "Exported" sample shows the next four columns titled as...- 
Full Account Name- Account Name- Amount with Symbol- and Amount Num
BUT... the importer doesn't offer these column name options...
My Question: Which Column Name do I choose from the Importer for the above 4 
lines?
I don't know, for instance, if the Amount with Symbol and the Amount Num should 
have their columns named Withdrawal or Deposit... as those titles seem to go 
with a checking account.
I also don't know how to make the importer identify the double entry accounts 
for each imported transaction... like...- Accounts Payable and Utilities... 
or...- Accounts Payable and Office Supplies... etc
Thanks for any help.


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Re: [GNC] Help files missing Was: Re: (no subject)

[Frederick Bambrough]

Success! Thanks.


> Dang. OK, I know what step I missed and I double checked to make sure
> they're there this time.
> 
> Gnucash-Intel-4.1-4.dmg, sha256:
> 9c3685e79027d12b370e9fa79a569f7c532968be91ecfd3b81660d39abe50ab3
> 
> Regards, John Ralls
> 
> 
> > On Aug 18, 2020, at 6:16 PM, Frederick Bambrough
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > I'm afraid those two items are still missing from 4.1-3
> > 
> > 
> > > Thanks for noticing. I've fixed that and uploaded a new dmg, who's
> > > sha256 is
> > > 44117d2a0d86f7be6015c47441bdab373c835e6adcf646911a8d93dcc8babb67.
> >> 
> > > Regards, John Ralls
> >> 
> >> 
> > > > On Aug 18, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Frederick Bambrough
> > > >  wrote:
> >>> 
> > > > In message  I
> > > > wrote:
> >>> 
> > > > > The 'GnuCash Guide' and 'GnuCash Help' files are missing from
> > > > > Resources in GnuCash 4.1-2, macOS.
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Re: [GNC] Help files missing Was: Re: (no subject)

[John Ralls]

Dang. OK, I know what step I missed and I double checked to make sure they're 
there this time.

Gnucash-Intel-4.1-4.dmg, sha256: 
9c3685e79027d12b370e9fa79a569f7c532968be91ecfd3b81660d39abe50ab3

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Aug 18, 2020, at 6:16 PM, Frederick Bambrough  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm afraid those two items are still missing from 4.1-3
> 
> 
>> Thanks for noticing. I've fixed that and uploaded a new dmg, who's
>> sha256 is
>> 44117d2a0d86f7be6015c47441bdab373c835e6adcf646911a8d93dcc8babb67.
>> 
>> Regards, John Ralls
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 18, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Frederick Bambrough
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In message  I wrote:
>>> 
 The 'GnuCash Guide' and 'GnuCash Help' files are missing from
 Resources in GnuCash 4.1-2, macOS.
 
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Re: [GNC] Help files missing Was: Re: (no subject)

[Frederick Bambrough]

I'm afraid those two items are still missing from 4.1-3


> Thanks for noticing. I've fixed that and uploaded a new dmg, who's
> sha256 is
> 44117d2a0d86f7be6015c47441bdab373c835e6adcf646911a8d93dcc8babb67.
> 
> Regards, John Ralls
> 
> 
> > On Aug 18, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Frederick Bambrough
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > In message  I wrote:
> > 
> > > The 'GnuCash Guide' and 'GnuCash Help' files are missing from
> > > Resources in GnuCash 4.1-2, macOS.
> >> 
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Re: [GNC] Help files missing Was: Re: (no subject)

[John Ralls]

Thanks for noticing. I've fixed that and uploaded a new dmg, who's sha256 is 
44117d2a0d86f7be6015c47441bdab373c835e6adcf646911a8d93dcc8babb67.

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Aug 18, 2020, at 2:49 PM, Frederick Bambrough  
> wrote:
> 
> In message  I wrote:
> 
>> The 'GnuCash Guide' and 'GnuCash Help' files are missing from Resources
>> in GnuCash 4.1-2, macOS.
>> 
> 
> Whoops! Initially sent from an unsubscribed address then lost the Subject
> in making haste to sort it.
> 
> -- 
> Fred
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[GNC] Help files missing Was: Re: (no subject)

[Frederick Bambrough]

In message  I wrote:

> The 'GnuCash Guide' and 'GnuCash Help' files are missing from Resources
> in GnuCash 4.1-2, macOS.
> 

Whoops! Initially sent from an unsubscribed address then lost the Subject
in making haste to sort it.

-- 
Fred
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Frederick Bambrough]

The 'GnuCash Guide' and 'GnuCash Help' files are missing from Resources in
GnuCash 4.1-2, macOS.

-- 
Fred
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[varda241 via gnucash-user]

Gnucash 2.6 .19Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: David Carlson 
 Date: 2/16/20  6:15 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: varda241 
 Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] (no subject) 
What version of GnuCash are you using and how did you install it?What folder 
did you use for your data file?David Carlson On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 4:55 PM 
varda241  wrote:Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy 
Tablet Original message From: David Carlson 
 Date: 2/16/20  2:52 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Varda 
Rotenberg  Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] 
(no subject) The setting sticks for each account once set.  The setting in 
preferences applies the first time the account is opened.David Carlson On Sun, 
Feb 16, 2020, 1:49 PM Varda Rotenberg via gnucash-user 
 wrote:Once in a while, I loose the double line on 
account. The option is checked at register default ,but I still get the single 
lines only. I use the double line for memos. What can be done?thanks, Varda
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Thank you. So far, I saved the settings, closed the app, rebooted the computer, 
clicked on gnucash and when it came up, there no double line. I work in ubuntu 
18.4Varda

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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[varda241 via gnucash-user]

Gnucash 2.6 .19Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: David Carlson 
 Date: 2/16/20  6:15 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: varda241 
 Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] (no subject) 
What version of GnuCash are you using and how did you install it?What folder 
did you use for your data file?David Carlson On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 4:55 PM 
varda241  wrote:Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy 
Tablet Original message From: David Carlson 
 Date: 2/16/20  2:52 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Varda 
Rotenberg  Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] 
(no subject) The setting sticks for each account once set.  The setting in 
preferences applies the first time the account is opened.David Carlson On Sun, 
Feb 16, 2020, 1:49 PM Varda Rotenberg via gnucash-user 
 wrote:Once in a while, I loose the double line on 
account. The option is checked at register default ,but I still get the single 
lines only. I use the double line for memos. What can be done?thanks, Varda
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Thank you. So far, I saved the settings, closed the app, rebooted the computer, 
clicked on gnucash and when it came up, there no double line. I work in ubuntu 
18.4Varda

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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[David Carlson]

What version of GnuCash are you using and how did you install it?

What folder did you use for your data file?

David Carlson

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 4:55 PM varda241  wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy Tablet
>
>  Original message 
> From: David Carlson 
> Date: 2/16/20 2:52 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Varda Rotenberg 
> Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> Subject: Re: [GNC] (no subject)
>
> The setting sticks for each account once set.  The setting in preferences
> applies the first time the account is opened.
>
> David Carlson
>
> On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:49 PM Varda Rotenberg via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
>> Once in a while, I loose the double line on account. The option is
>> checked at register default ,but I still get the single lines only. I use
>> the double line for memos. What can be done?thanks, Varda
>> ___
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>>
> Thank you. So far, I saved the settings, closed the app, rebooted the
>> computer, clicked on gnucash and when it came up, there no double line. I
>> work in ubuntu 18.4
>
> Varda
>
>
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[varda241 via gnucash-user]

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy Tablet
 Original message From: David Carlson 
 Date: 2/16/20  2:52 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Varda 
Rotenberg  Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] 
(no subject) The setting sticks for each account once set.  The setting in 
preferences applies the first time the account is opened.David Carlson On Sun, 
Feb 16, 2020, 1:49 PM Varda Rotenberg via gnucash-user 
 wrote:Once in a while, I loose the double line on 
account. The option is checked at register default ,but I still get the single 
lines only. I use the double line for memos. What can be done?thanks, Varda
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Thank you. So far, I saved the settings, closed the app, rebooted the computer, 
clicked on gnucash and when it came up, there no double line. I work in ubuntu 
18.4Varda
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[varda241 via gnucash-user]

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy Tablet
 Original message From: David Carlson 
 Date: 2/16/20  2:52 PM  (GMT-05:00) To: Varda 
Rotenberg  Cc: gnucash-user@gnucash.org Subject: Re: [GNC] 
(no subject) The setting sticks for each account once set.  The setting in 
preferences applies the first time the account is opened.David Carlson On Sun, 
Feb 16, 2020, 1:49 PM Varda Rotenberg via gnucash-user 
 wrote:Once in a while, I loose the double line on 
account. The option is checked at register default ,but I still get the single 
lines only. I use the double line for memos. What can be done?thanks, Varda
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Thank you. So far, I saved the settings, closed the app, rebooted the computer, 
clicked on gnucash and when it came up, there no double line. I work in ubuntu 
18.4Varda
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[David Carlson]

The setting sticks for each account once set.  The setting in preferences
applies the first time the account is opened.

David Carlson

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 1:49 PM Varda Rotenberg via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> Once in a while, I loose the double line on account. The option is checked
> at register default ,but I still get the single lines only. I use the
> double line for memos. What can be done?thanks, Varda
> ___
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Varda Rotenberg via gnucash-user]

Once in a while, I loose the double line on account. The option is checked at 
register default ,but I still get the single lines only. I use the double line 
for memos. What can be done?thanks, Varda
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Derek Atkins]

It's music to my ears!

-derek
Sent using my mobile device. Please excuse any typos.
On January 10, 2020 12:41:31 PM D via gnucash-user 
 wrote:



I like your thinking!

On January 10, 2020, at 10:26 PM, John Ralls  wrote:

A# ?

On Jan 8, 2020, at 11:42 PM, D via gnucash-user  
wrote:


Bb
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[D via gnucash-user]

I like your thinking!

On January 10, 2020, at 10:26 PM, John Ralls  wrote:

A# ?

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 11:42 PM, D via gnucash-user  
> wrote:
> 
> Bb
> ___
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[John Ralls]

A# ?

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 11:42 PM, D via gnucash-user  
> wrote:
> 
> Bb
> ___
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[D via gnucash-user]

Either it was connectivity issues, or I'm getting senile...

On January 10, 2020, at 11:32 AM, D via gnucash-user  
wrote:

Bb
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Re: [GNC] Accounting for differences. Was: (no subject)

[Adrien Monteleone]

The naming may be unique, but the idea and use of the account is not unorthodox.

Some businesses track “Cash Over/Short” as a miscellaneous expense and that is 
a good place to put rounding and some other errors.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Nov 27, 2019 w48d331, at 3:52 PM, Max Hyre  wrote:
> 
>   Dear Mr. Filho:
> 
>   (I expect this will cause all accountants to run, screaming, but it works 
> for me.)
> 
>   I, too, keep track of errors, but they're usually mine.  For this I have an 
> account _Equity:MUD_, which stands for Make Up Difference.  :-)  It's 
> unorthodox, but this is for my personal finances, for which ``there are no 
> standards''.
> 
>   I like the Gnucash register to reflect the balance shown in my physical 
> register, even when I make a mistake.  For this purpose I enter a transaction 
> ``*** error subtracting # 5794 ***'' immediately after check 5794, so 
> from there GC has the same balance as my fallible entries, making it easier 
> for me to follow what's happening.  At the point where I notice the error, I 
> enter a counterbalancing transaction ``*** fix error subtracting # 5794 
> ***'' in both GC and my personal register, thus making both reflect the 
> bank's idea of my balance.
> 
>   For your first case, I'd enter a transaction ``rounding error'' against 
> MUD.  Over the long haul, they should tend to balance out to roughly zero.  
> If they don't, and they always seem to be to your disadvantage, you may have 
> caught someone executing a salami slicing [1] attack against you.
> 
>   For the second, it sounds as if you don't care about the errors, but just 
> want the books to balance.  If that's correct, you can credit or debit 
> _Equity:MUD_ and be done with it.  In fact, you might prefer having two 
> accounts:  _Equity:MUD:Rounding_ and _Equity:MUD:Other's errors_.
> 
>   I hope this helps, or at least gives you some amusement.
> 
> 
>   Best wishes,
> 
> Max Hyre

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Re: [GNC] Accounting for differences. Was: (no subject)

[Max Hyre]

   Dear Mr. Filho:

   (I expect this will cause all accountants to run, screaming, but it works 
for me.)

   I, too, keep track of errors, but they're usually mine.  For this I have an 
account _Equity:MUD_, which stands for Make Up Difference.  :-)  It's 
unorthodox, but this is for my personal finances, for which ``there are no 
standards''.

   I like the Gnucash register to reflect the balance shown in my physical 
register, even when I make a mistake.  For this purpose I enter a transaction 
``*** error subtracting # 5794 ***'' immediately after check 5794, so from 
there GC has the same balance as my fallible entries, making it easier for me 
to follow what's happening.  At the point where I notice the error, I enter a 
counterbalancing transaction ``*** fix error subtracting # 5794 ***'' in 
both GC and my personal register, thus making both reflect the bank's idea of 
my balance.

   For your first case, I'd enter a transaction ``rounding error'' against MUD. 
 Over the long haul, they should tend to balance out to roughly zero.  If they 
don't, and they always seem to be to your disadvantage, you may have caught 
someone executing a salami slicing [1] attack against you.

   For the second, it sounds as if you don't care about the errors, but just 
want the books to balance.  If that's correct, you can credit or debit 
_Equity:MUD_ and be done with it.  In fact, you might prefer having two 
accounts:  _Equity:MUD:Rounding_ and _Equity:MUD:Other's errors_.

   I hope this helps, or at least gives you some amusement.


   Best wishes,

 Max Hyre


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_slicing


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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[David Cousens]

Gilberto,

1. You would normally make the adjustment between the account for the mutual
fund and equity to bring the balance into agreement with a statement. Income
and Expense accounts are in accounting terms a temporary equity accounts
where temporary denotes pertaining to the current period. You would record
the adjustment when you become aware of the need for it, which would limit
the likelihood that the amount of any adjustment is likely to be material -
i.e. affect whether your accounts represent a true reflection of you
financial position. Corrections of a few cents are not likely to be material
but a $100 correction is definitely likely to be.

If the corrections pertain to only the current financial year, you could 
use an income or expense account as appropriate for the direction of the
correction. If the correction covers differences accumulated over over more
than the current financial period, then it would probably be more
appropriate to adjust to equity.  These would also be typical of the
adjustments made after forming a trial balance during the close books
procedure in accounting practice and would likely be made after combining
Income and Expenses to an Income Summary account (Income - Expenses) during
that procedure.  Main thing is to annotate the correction describing what it
is correcting and what period(s) it pertains to.

2. Really the same sort of considerations as in 1.

The usual disclaimer applies. This should not be considered as accounting
advice and you should consult an accountant in your jurisdiction for
specific advice where required.

David Cousens



-
David Cousens
--
Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Gilberto Reis Filho]

Dear all. I am a long time GnuCash user (10+ years) and I use it to
track my personal finances.

The question I have is more related to accounting principles (I am no
accountant) and how specific situations should be recorded to comply
with "standards". I know there are no standards for personal finances
but what I am looking for is how people treat specific situations and
the general consensus (if there is any).

Situation 1
Tracking mutual funds (or other investments that rely on prices and
quantities) for a long time sometimes cause small diferences in
balances (presumably caused by rounding limitations) that I want to
correct. To correct those balances I either do a credit or debit
transaction to the investment account to adjust the balance. At the
other side of the transaction, in this case, should I credit or debit
an expense/revenue account or an equity account?

Situation 2
Sometimes there are errors in statements I receive (the nature of the
specific errors are not relevant to the discussion) and that causes
balance differences either in assets or liabilities accounts that I
would like to correct recording an adjustment transaction. At the
other side of the adjustment transaction should I credit or debit an
expense/revenue account or an equity account?

I tend to put an equity account at the other side of the adjustment
transaction on the above situations because I am correcting an error
and not actually generating revenue or expense, however I am uncertain
if this teh adequate way of recording adjustment transactions.

Thank you all for any comments.
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Fran_3 via gnucash-user]

 Ah Ha! Thanks Chris, I'll give this a try. Good tip.Thanks again.

On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 3:28:55 PM EST, Chris Good 
 wrote:  
 
 Hi Fran,

Something I didn't realize you could do for a long time was to open 2 reports 
in separate side by side windows so you can easily visually compare them. I'm 
not at my computer now but I think the options to do this are under the Window 
or View menus.

Regards,

Chris Good
---
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 18:17:02 + (UTC)
> From: Fran_3 
> To: Gnucash Users ,  Adrien Monteleone
>    
> Subject: Re: [GNC] How to compare 2 Transaction Reports to find orphan
>    transactions
> Message-ID: <1766876513.1811024.1573323422...@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Adrian, you said... "instead do a Find operation then run an Account Report 
> instead of a Transaction Report. (since Find can filter on more fields)"
> My comment: 
> I did not know about the "Account Report"? option... It seems it only appears 
> under the Reports Menu if you are looking at a register (aka account)... like 
> the check register or AP or AR register... or after you do a Ctl F (Find) 
> operation... 
> This is very useful.
> Thanks for this tip Adrian !
> Fran3
> 
>    On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 10:14:16 AM EST, Adrien Monteleone 
> wrote:  
> 
> I would say consider the criteria you used to create the set of transactions 
> for each report, then try to craft a report using the options that gives you 
> only those that don?t lie in the joint set.
> 
> If *every* transaction on both reports is between two and only the *same two* 
> accounts then you might do better with using regex and/or instead do a Find 
> operation then run an Account Report instead of a Transaction Report. (since 
> Find can filter on more fields)
> 
> My personal mileage is better with running Find operations from the Accounts 
> tab rather than a particular register.
> 
> If however, the two reports have transactions all sharing one account in 
> common (say checking) but not other splits, you might want to investigate the 
> Account Filter option. So while filtering on other data might appear to get 
> you what you want, sometimes filtering by the ?other? split narrows things 
> down much faster. With a Transaction Report (as opposed to Find then Account 
> Report) you can filter based on including or not including transactions which 
> have splits in other accounts.
> 
> Otherwise, the spreadsheet approach is likely the simplest. If you know how 
> to use command-line tools, you could use the spreadsheet step just for saving 
> in CSV format, then using a cli `diff` tool to show you what is different 
> between the two files. (MacOS as well as most if not all BSD & Linux 
> distributions have this built-in. I?m not sure about Windows)
> 
> Such tools are very fast and each one has its own features. The output takes 
> some getting used to as most are not super ?clean? on screen, but once you do 
> it enough, you?ll be able to use them more effectively.
> 
> You could jump straight to using `diff` and get used to it, and it will help 
> get the job done, but the better option is to think carefully about what you 
> are trying to find and then crafting a Find or Report that gets you there 
> from within GnuCash.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 9, 2019 w45d313, at 8:53 AM, Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I want to compare Transaction Report A to Transaction Report B
>> and find transactions that appear on one report but not on the other... aka 
>> orphan transactions
>> In past I have either...
>> - Done a screen capture of each, pasted them side by side in PC Paint and 
>> marked off matching transactions one by one...
>> - Or printed them out and done the same with pen & paper
>> - Or exported the reports and then imported them into a spreadsheet and 
>> marked matching transactions one by one
>> All of this is a bunch of work...
>> 
>> Is there an easier way?
>> Thanks for any help - Fran3  
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[David H]

Chris,

You are correct, highlight tab you want in a new window and click Windows
>> New Window with Page.

Cheers Dave H.

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 06:24, Chris Good  wrote:

> Hi Fran,
>
> Something I didn't realize you could do for a long time was to open 2
> reports in separate side by side windows so you can easily visually compare
> them. I'm not at my computer now but I think the options to do this are
> under the Window or View menus.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Good
> ---
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 18:17:02 + (UTC)
> > From: Fran_3 
> > To: Gnucash Users ,  Adrien Monteleone
> >
> > Subject: Re: [GNC] How to compare 2 Transaction Reports to find orphan
> >transactions
> > Message-ID: <1766876513.1811024.1573323422...@mail.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Adrian, you said... "instead do a Find operation then run an Account
> Report instead of a Transaction Report. (since Find can filter on more
> fields)"
> > My comment:
> > I did not know about the "Account Report"? option... It seems it only
> appears under the Reports Menu if you are looking at a register (aka
> account)... like the check register or AP or AR register... or after you do
> a Ctl F (Find) operation...
> > This is very useful.
> > Thanks for this tip Adrian !
> > Fran3
> >
> >On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 10:14:16 AM EST, Adrien Monteleone <
> adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:
> >
> > I would say consider the criteria you used to create the set of
> transactions for each report, then try to craft a report using the options
> that gives you only those that don?t lie in the joint set.
> >
> > If *every* transaction on both reports is between two and only the *same
> two* accounts then you might do better with using regex and/or instead do a
> Find operation then run an Account Report instead of a Transaction Report.
> (since Find can filter on more fields)
> >
> > My personal mileage is better with running Find operations from the
> Accounts tab rather than a particular register.
> >
> > If however, the two reports have transactions all sharing one account in
> common (say checking) but not other splits, you might want to investigate
> the Account Filter option. So while filtering on other data might appear to
> get you what you want, sometimes filtering by the ?other? split narrows
> things down much faster. With a Transaction Report (as opposed to Find then
> Account Report) you can filter based on including or not including
> transactions which have splits in other accounts.
> >
> > Otherwise, the spreadsheet approach is likely the simplest. If you know
> how to use command-line tools, you could use the spreadsheet step just for
> saving in CSV format, then using a cli `diff` tool to show you what is
> different between the two files. (MacOS as well as most if not all BSD &
> Linux distributions have this built-in. I?m not sure about Windows)
> >
> > Such tools are very fast and each one has its own features. The output
> takes some getting used to as most are not super ?clean? on screen, but
> once you do it enough, you?ll be able to use them more effectively.
> >
> > You could jump straight to using `diff` and get used to it, and it will
> help get the job done, but the better option is to think carefully about
> what you are trying to find and then crafting a Find or Report that gets
> you there from within GnuCash.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Adrien
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 9, 2019 w45d313, at 8:53 AM, Fran_3 via gnucash-user <
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I want to compare Transaction Report A to Transaction Report B
> >> and find transactions that appear on one report but not on the other...
> aka orphan transactions
> >> In past I have either...
> >> - Done a screen capture of each, pasted them side by side in PC Paint
> and marked off matching transactions one by one...
> >> - Or printed them out and done the same with pen & paper
> >> - Or exported the reports and then imported them into a spreadsheet and
> marked matching transactions one by one
> >> All of this is a bunch of work...
> >>
> >> Is there an easier way?
> >> Thanks for any help - Fran3
> ___
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Chris Good]

Hi Fran,

Something I didn't realize you could do for a long time was to open 2 reports 
in separate side by side windows so you can easily visually compare them. I'm 
not at my computer now but I think the options to do this are under the Window 
or View menus.

Regards,

Chris Good
---
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 18:17:02 + (UTC)
> From: Fran_3 
> To: Gnucash Users ,  Adrien Monteleone
>
> Subject: Re: [GNC] How to compare 2 Transaction Reports to find orphan
>transactions
> Message-ID: <1766876513.1811024.1573323422...@mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> Adrian, you said... "instead do a Find operation then run an Account Report 
> instead of a Transaction Report. (since Find can filter on more fields)"
> My comment: 
> I did not know about the "Account Report"? option... It seems it only appears 
> under the Reports Menu if you are looking at a register (aka account)... like 
> the check register or AP or AR register... or after you do a Ctl F (Find) 
> operation... 
> This is very useful.
> Thanks for this tip Adrian !
> Fran3
> 
>On Saturday, November 9, 2019, 10:14:16 AM EST, Adrien Monteleone 
>  wrote:  
> 
> I would say consider the criteria you used to create the set of transactions 
> for each report, then try to craft a report using the options that gives you 
> only those that don?t lie in the joint set.
> 
> If *every* transaction on both reports is between two and only the *same two* 
> accounts then you might do better with using regex and/or instead do a Find 
> operation then run an Account Report instead of a Transaction Report. (since 
> Find can filter on more fields)
> 
> My personal mileage is better with running Find operations from the Accounts 
> tab rather than a particular register.
> 
> If however, the two reports have transactions all sharing one account in 
> common (say checking) but not other splits, you might want to investigate the 
> Account Filter option. So while filtering on other data might appear to get 
> you what you want, sometimes filtering by the ?other? split narrows things 
> down much faster. With a Transaction Report (as opposed to Find then Account 
> Report) you can filter based on including or not including transactions which 
> have splits in other accounts.
> 
> Otherwise, the spreadsheet approach is likely the simplest. If you know how 
> to use command-line tools, you could use the spreadsheet step just for saving 
> in CSV format, then using a cli `diff` tool to show you what is different 
> between the two files. (MacOS as well as most if not all BSD & Linux 
> distributions have this built-in. I?m not sure about Windows)
> 
> Such tools are very fast and each one has its own features. The output takes 
> some getting used to as most are not super ?clean? on screen, but once you do 
> it enough, you?ll be able to use them more effectively.
> 
> You could jump straight to using `diff` and get used to it, and it will help 
> get the job done, but the better option is to think carefully about what you 
> are trying to find and then crafting a Find or Report that gets you there 
> from within GnuCash.
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 9, 2019 w45d313, at 8:53 AM, Fran_3 via gnucash-user 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I want to compare Transaction Report A to Transaction Report B
>> and find transactions that appear on one report but not on the other... aka 
>> orphan transactions
>> In past I have either...
>> - Done a screen capture of each, pasted them side by side in PC Paint and 
>> marked off matching transactions one by one...
>> - Or printed them out and done the same with pen & paper
>> - Or exported the reports and then imported them into a spreadsheet and 
>> marked matching transactions one by one
>> All of this is a bunch of work...
>> 
>> Is there an easier way?
>> Thanks for any help - Fran3
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[David Carlson]

I think that editing the FITID of a transaction in the OFX file will also
trigger a 'new' import.

David C

On Fri, Nov 9, 2018 at 10:38 AM Derek Atkins  wrote:

> Changing the date on the transaction is not sufficient; GnuCash stores the
> unique FITID to match against the OFX file, so it will detect that there
> are  no new transactions.  You would literally need to delete a
> transaction before the re-import to get the importer to see a new one.
>
> -derek
>
> On Fri, November 9, 2018 11:17 am, Ed Fields wrote:
> > Hi Folks,
> >
> > In answer to John and David, I don't use the on line banking feature.
> > I download the qfx file from Discover to my disk, then perform a file |
> > import operation.  The downloaded qfx file has several  newer
> transactions
> > than those in my gnuCash credit card account.
> >
> > Just for grins, I re-imported a qfx from several months ago, after first
> > changing a date for one of the gnu account entries to ensure that at
> least
> > one transaction would be viewed as new.
> > Got the same response, an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic
> > import transaction manager'
> >
> > The only structural difference I can see between the broken Discover qfx
> > files and other working qfx files from other credit card companies is
> that
> > the discover provides an additional field INTU.USERID in the preamble
> text
> >*myAccountName*
> >
> > my previous gnuCash version # is not known, I think it was the one before
> > the September update version.
> >
> > Are any readers tracking Discover Card expenses successfully importing
> > activity data into their account?
> >
> > thanks for your patience and your responses
> >
> > ed
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:06 PM David Reiser  wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> > On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:38 PM, John Ralls  >
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:15 AM, Ed Fields  wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Just installed Build ID: 3.3+ (2018-09-29) on a new Win 10 setup
> >> >>
> >> >> I find I can no longer import discover card activity, but can import
> >> other
> >> >> credit card activity files into their associated credit card
> >> accounts.
> >> >>
> >> >> Discover want me to contact Quicken.
> >> >>
> >> >> I would normally search the archives but don't see a way to access
> >> them
> >> >> here at gnucash.org
> >> >>
> >> >> Is there an easy fix for this issue?
> >> >> currently I get an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic  import
> >> >> transaction manager'.
> >> >
> >> > Are you using online banking? Was this working OK with the previous
> >> version of GnuCash (which version)?
> >> > It’s odd that you’re getting an empty match window, if there aren’t
> >> any
> >> transactions it’s supposed to put up a message box saying so.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > John Ralls
> >> >
> >> I believe one way an empty matching window shows up is if there were
> >> transactions in the data stream, but all the transaction IDs matched
> >> already-imported transactions.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >> --
> >> Dave Reiser
> >> dbrei...@icloud.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > gnucash-user mailing list
> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
> > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>
>
> --
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>
> ___
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Derek Atkins]

Changing the date on the transaction is not sufficient; GnuCash stores the
unique FITID to match against the OFX file, so it will detect that there
are  no new transactions.  You would literally need to delete a
transaction before the re-import to get the importer to see a new one.

-derek

On Fri, November 9, 2018 11:17 am, Ed Fields wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> In answer to John and David, I don't use the on line banking feature.
> I download the qfx file from Discover to my disk, then perform a file |
> import operation.  The downloaded qfx file has several  newer transactions
> than those in my gnuCash credit card account.
>
> Just for grins, I re-imported a qfx from several months ago, after first
> changing a date for one of the gnu account entries to ensure that at least
> one transaction would be viewed as new.
> Got the same response, an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic
> import transaction manager'
>
> The only structural difference I can see between the broken Discover qfx
> files and other working qfx files from other credit card companies is that
> the discover provides an additional field INTU.USERID in the preamble text
>*myAccountName*
>
> my previous gnuCash version # is not known, I think it was the one before
> the September update version.
>
> Are any readers tracking Discover Card expenses successfully importing
> activity data into their account?
>
> thanks for your patience and your responses
>
> ed
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:06 PM David Reiser  wrote:
>
>>
>> > On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:38 PM, John Ralls 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:15 AM, Ed Fields  wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just installed Build ID: 3.3+ (2018-09-29) on a new Win 10 setup
>> >>
>> >> I find I can no longer import discover card activity, but can import
>> other
>> >> credit card activity files into their associated credit card
>> accounts.
>> >>
>> >> Discover want me to contact Quicken.
>> >>
>> >> I would normally search the archives but don't see a way to access
>> them
>> >> here at gnucash.org
>> >>
>> >> Is there an easy fix for this issue?
>> >> currently I get an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic  import
>> >> transaction manager'.
>> >
>> > Are you using online banking? Was this working OK with the previous
>> version of GnuCash (which version)?
>> > It’s odd that you’re getting an empty match window, if there aren’t
>> any
>> transactions it’s supposed to put up a message box saying so.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > John Ralls
>> >
>> I believe one way an empty matching window shows up is if there were
>> transactions in the data stream, but all the transaction IDs matched
>> already-imported transactions.
>>
>> Dave
>> --
>> Dave Reiser
>> dbrei...@icloud.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ___
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-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[Ed Fields]

Hi Folks,

In answer to John and David, I don't use the on line banking feature.
I download the qfx file from Discover to my disk, then perform a file |
import operation.  The downloaded qfx file has several  newer transactions
than those in my gnuCash credit card account.

Just for grins, I re-imported a qfx from several months ago, after first
changing a date for one of the gnu account entries to ensure that at least
one transaction would be viewed as new.
Got the same response, an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic
import transaction manager'

The only structural difference I can see between the broken Discover qfx
files and other working qfx files from other credit card companies is that
the discover provides an additional field INTU.USERID in the preamble text
   *myAccountName*

my previous gnuCash version # is not known, I think it was the one before
the September update version.

Are any readers tracking Discover Card expenses successfully importing
activity data into their account?

thanks for your patience and your responses

ed






On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 7:06 PM David Reiser  wrote:

>
> > On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:38 PM, John Ralls 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:15 AM, Ed Fields  wrote:
> >>
> >> Just installed Build ID: 3.3+ (2018-09-29) on a new Win 10 setup
> >>
> >> I find I can no longer import discover card activity, but can import
> other
> >> credit card activity files into their associated credit card accounts.
> >>
> >> Discover want me to contact Quicken.
> >>
> >> I would normally search the archives but don't see a way to access them
> >> here at gnucash.org
> >>
> >> Is there an easy fix for this issue?
> >> currently I get an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic  import
> >> transaction manager'.
> >
> > Are you using online banking? Was this working OK with the previous
> version of GnuCash (which version)?
> > It’s odd that you’re getting an empty match window, if there aren’t any
> transactions it’s supposed to put up a message box saying so.
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ralls
> >
> I believe one way an empty matching window shows up is if there were
> transactions in the data stream, but all the transaction IDs matched
> already-imported transactions.
>
> Dave
> --
> Dave Reiser
> dbrei...@icloud.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[David Reiser via gnucash-user]

> On Nov 8, 2018, at 6:38 PM, John Ralls  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:15 AM, Ed Fields  wrote:
>> 
>> Just installed Build ID: 3.3+ (2018-09-29) on a new Win 10 setup
>> 
>> I find I can no longer import discover card activity, but can import other
>> credit card activity files into their associated credit card accounts.
>> 
>> Discover want me to contact Quicken.
>> 
>> I would normally search the archives but don't see a way to access them
>> here at gnucash.org
>> 
>> Is there an easy fix for this issue?
>> currently I get an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic  import
>> transaction manager'.
> 
> Are you using online banking? Was this working OK with the previous version 
> of GnuCash (which version)?
> It’s odd that you’re getting an empty match window, if there aren’t any 
> transactions it’s supposed to put up a message box saying so.
> 
> Regards,
> John Ralls
> 
I believe one way an empty matching window shows up is if there were 
transactions in the data stream, but all the transaction IDs matched 
already-imported transactions.

Dave
--
Dave Reiser
dbrei...@icloud.com




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Re: [GNC] (no subject)

[John Ralls]

> On Nov 9, 2018, at 4:15 AM, Ed Fields  wrote:
> 
> Just installed Build ID: 3.3+ (2018-09-29) on a new Win 10 setup
> 
> I find I can no longer import discover card activity, but can import other
> credit card activity files into their associated credit card accounts.
> 
> Discover want me to contact Quicken.
> 
> I would normally search the archives but don't see a way to access them
> here at gnucash.org
> 
> Is there an easy fix for this issue?
> currently I get an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic  import
> transaction manager'.

Are you using online banking? Was this working OK with the previous version of 
GnuCash (which version)?
It’s odd that you’re getting an empty match window, if there aren’t any 
transactions it’s supposed to put up a message box saying so.

Regards,
John Ralls

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[GNC] (no subject)

[Ed Fields]

Just installed Build ID: 3.3+ (2018-09-29) on a new Win 10 setup

I find I can no longer import discover card activity, but can import other
credit card activity files into their associated credit card accounts.

Discover want me to contact Quicken.

I would normally search the archives but don't see a way to access them
here at gnucash.org

Is there an easy fix for this issue?
currently I get an unpopulated popup window titled 'generic  import
transaction manager'.

thanks
ed
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[GNC] (no subject)

[Barry Nichol via gnucash-user]

???
Sent from Mail for Windows 10




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[GNC] (no subject)

[Barry Nichol via gnucash-user]

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10




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[GNC] ENDED: Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Liz]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 09:39:36 -0400
johnny <js0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> hola
> 
> On 04/10/2018 16:20, listreader wrote:
> > The prefix is EXTREMELY useful to me. So add me to the 'approve'
> > side of your tally.  
> me too.
> 
> and really- what is all this bitching about? 5 extra chars at the
> front of an email subject ...
> 
> humans have a great ability to not see what is right in front of
> their faces. talk to some of your least favorite family members or 
> acquaintances if you don't believe me. so just use those skills to 
> ignore this filtering prefix that is widely used and appreciated and 
> very helpful to many of the list readers.
> 
> thank you

Thankyou johnny.
The number count made further up the thread indicated that less than
1.5% of Gnucash-user mailing list members were keen for the removal of
the prefix.

I wish to read nothing more on this subject.
Liz
Moderator.
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Saša Janiška]

Dave H  writes:

Hello Dave,

> There is one at Nabble - http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/ ?

Thanks for the info, although my comment was just a joke...usually
discussion of people not happy with the mailing lists turns into
suggestion to create web forum as panacea for all the problems. :-D

But, we won't feed this thread any more. ;)


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
Many, many births both you and I have passed. I can remember
all of them, but you cannot, O subduer of the enemy!

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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Dave H]

Gour,

There is one at Nabble - http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/ ?

Cheers Dave H.

On 13 April 2018 at 01:57, Saša Janiška <g...@atmarama.com> wrote:

> George Riner <georgeri...@mycogeo.com> writes:
>
> > I also am subscribed to about 20 email lists and Gnucash was the only
> > one that did *not* have bracketed tag in the subject line.
>
> I still haven't seen list of mailing clients which are *not* capable to
> perform filtering by List-Id and if it is really such a problem, maybe
> the solution is to turn mailing lists into web forum?
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Gour
>
> --
> As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust,
> or as the embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is
> similarly covered by different degrees of this lust.
>
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Saša Janiška]

George Riner <georgeri...@mycogeo.com> writes:

> I also am subscribed to about 20 email lists and Gnucash was the only
> one that did *not* have bracketed tag in the subject line.

I still haven't seen list of mailing clients which are *not* capable to
perform filtering by List-Id and if it is really such a problem, maybe
the solution is to turn mailing lists into web forum?


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
As fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror is covered by dust,
or as the embryo is covered by the womb, the living entity is
similarly covered by different degrees of this lust.

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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Alain Williams]

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 07:14:36AM -0700, George Riner wrote:
> I also am subscribed to about 20 email lists and Gnucash was the only one 
> that did *not* have bracketed tag in the subject line.

+1

-- 
Alain Williams
Linux/GNU Consultant - Mail systems, Web sites, Networking, Programmer, IT 
Lecturer.
+44 (0) 787 668 0256  https://www.phcomp.co.uk/
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#include 
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[George Riner]

I also am subscribed to about 20 email lists and Gnucash was the only one that 
did *not* have bracketed tag in the subject line.

: George
-- -- --
Sent by Droid.

On April 12, 2018 1:34:08 AM PDT, "Saša Janiška" <g...@atmarama.com> wrote:
>William Bixby <wbi...@usa.net> writes:
>
>> I'm surprised at the objections, as my experience is that mail lists
>> adding the list ID in the subject is the 'norm' and very common.  The
>> few, like gnucash was, that don't are the outlier.
>
>I follow about 20 mailing lists and gnucash-users is the only one
>having
>prefix.
>
>For those which do not want or can't use Gmane, they ca filter either
>locally or at the server level by using List-ID, so I simply do not see
>the reason for this poor-man's filtering...
>
>
>Sincerely,
>Gour
>
>-- 
>While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person
>develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust
>develops, and from lust anger arises.
>
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Saša Janiška]

William Bixby <wbi...@usa.net> writes:

> I'm surprised at the objections, as my experience is that mail lists
> adding the list ID in the subject is the 'norm' and very common.  The
> few, like gnucash was, that don't are the outlier.

I follow about 20 mailing lists and gnucash-users is the only one having
prefix.

For those which do not want or can't use Gmane, they ca filter either
locally or at the server level by using List-ID, so I simply do not see
the reason for this poor-man's filtering...


Sincerely,
Gour

-- 
While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person
develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust
develops, and from lust anger arises.

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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[listreader]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 10:17:59 -0500
Adrien Monteleone  wrote:

> My questions were rhetorical as I noted in a later reply to him. I
> knew what his mail client was and what its abilities are. (I could
> see it in the header) My point was that if he wants to ‘filter’ his
> mail, he has the tools to do so and they are not difficult to use. In
> fact, in his reply, he noted that he does physically filter mail into
> some 80 folders with about 154 different filtering rules. He just
> doesn’t *feel* like doing it with the list.

'He' is obviously me, and you are misrepresenting my words. Neither
truthful nor nice, Adrien.

I do indeed filter this list.  It is filtered into the same folder I
filter all my other mailing lists into, heck I even have a dedicated
email address just for mailing lists, it just doesn't get its own
folder as I prefer it that way.  This is a preference not laziness.  I
also prefer to buy my meat at a market rather than hunt my own dinner,
even though I could easily do the latter: I have 'the tools to do so
and they are not difficult to use' in your words.  Would you have a
problem with that preference, also?

The prefix addition was a GOOD change.  Leave it alone.

Ralph



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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Les]

Adrien:

You have hit the nail on the head!

Given all the time given to this thread, I think it is high time to end 
it.  It has been a hugh distraction from what this list is all about.


Just my $.02 worth.

Les


On 04/11/2018 10:17 AM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

I think this thread also illustrates that how people hit ‘reply/reply-all’ and 
to which message can break threads. So far I think it has at least 5 parts. I’d 
have to look at the archive page to be sure. Now we’re at a point where people 
are replying to broken off or stalled sections of the thread.

My questions were rhetorical as I noted in a later reply to him. I knew what 
his mail client was and what its abilities are. (I could see it in the header) 
My point was that if he wants to ‘filter’ his mail, he has the tools to do so 
and they are not difficult to use. In fact, in his reply, he noted that he does 
physically filter mail into some 80 folders with about 154 different filtering 
rules. He just doesn’t *feel* like doing it with the list.

Another user seemed to imply that his mail client could not do filtering. I 
found excerpts (and provided links) to the manual which described specifically 
how to manage mailing-list mail. Perhaps he wasn’t aware of this feature. I 
haven’t heard back.

Seriously? Everyone has to have this tag added because *some* people either 
don’t know how or don’t *want* to use the features of their own e-mail client?

Could you imagine what GnuCash would look like if the devs treated the app the 
same way? If they added (or removed) features, or re-arranged the UI simply 
because some people don’t *feel* like using it the way it was designed and 
intended to be used?




On Apr 11, 2018, at 8:44 AM, johnny  wrote:

hi


On 04/10/2018 17:17, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

What is your e-mail client? Can it not filter mail? Can it not tag mail? Can it 
not handle mailing-lists?

isn't that up to each of us to decide what client to use? and how to manage our 
own email flows? shouldn't it be irrelevant to this discussion?

or maybe this is "tech shaming" in some way to cloud the issue?

(also revealing about humans that this issue generates the most traffic 
[although 3.0 upgrade was a big one too])
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

I think this thread also illustrates that how people hit ‘reply/reply-all’ and 
to which message can break threads. So far I think it has at least 5 parts. I’d 
have to look at the archive page to be sure. Now we’re at a point where people 
are replying to broken off or stalled sections of the thread.

My questions were rhetorical as I noted in a later reply to him. I knew what 
his mail client was and what its abilities are. (I could see it in the header) 
My point was that if he wants to ‘filter’ his mail, he has the tools to do so 
and they are not difficult to use. In fact, in his reply, he noted that he does 
physically filter mail into some 80 folders with about 154 different filtering 
rules. He just doesn’t *feel* like doing it with the list.

Another user seemed to imply that his mail client could not do filtering. I 
found excerpts (and provided links) to the manual which described specifically 
how to manage mailing-list mail. Perhaps he wasn’t aware of this feature. I 
haven’t heard back.

Seriously? Everyone has to have this tag added because *some* people either 
don’t know how or don’t *want* to use the features of their own e-mail client?

Could you imagine what GnuCash would look like if the devs treated the app the 
same way? If they added (or removed) features, or re-arranged the UI simply 
because some people don’t *feel* like using it the way it was designed and 
intended to be used?



> On Apr 11, 2018, at 8:44 AM, johnny  wrote:
> 
> hi
> 
> 
> On 04/10/2018 17:17, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> What is your e-mail client? Can it not filter mail? Can it not tag mail? Can 
>> it not handle mailing-lists?
> isn't that up to each of us to decide what client to use? and how to manage 
> our own email flows? shouldn't it be irrelevant to this discussion?
> 
> or maybe this is "tech shaming" in some way to cloud the issue?
> 
> (also revealing about humans that this issue generates the most traffic 
> [although 3.0 upgrade was a big one too])
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[johnny]

hi


On 04/10/2018 17:17, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

What is your e-mail client? Can it not filter mail? Can it not tag mail? Can it 
not handle mailing-lists?
isn't that up to each of us to decide what client to use? and how to 
manage our own email flows? shouldn't it be irrelevant to this discussion?


or maybe this is "tech shaming" in some way to cloud the issue?

(also revealing about humans that this issue generates the most traffic 
[although 3.0 upgrade was a big one too])

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Re: [GNC] Fwd: Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

2018-04-11T08:31:28+0100 Colin Law wrote:
> If we are not supposed to use Reply All then could someone please
> adjust the list settings so that Reply goes back to the list and not

Technically, according to some RFCs, this isn't a good idea, also see
([1]). Munging makes the direct contact with the poster lost, in case of
sensitive subject, you will want to contact that person privately, and
munging makes that difficult.

[1] <http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html>.
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[johnny]

hola

On 04/10/2018 16:20, listreader wrote:

The prefix is EXTREMELY useful to me. So add me to the 'approve' side
of your tally.

me too.

and really- what is all this bitching about? 5 extra chars at the front 
of an email subject ...


humans have a great ability to not see what is right in front of their 
faces. talk to some of your least favorite family members or 
acquaintances if you don't believe me. so just use those skills to 
ignore this filtering prefix that is widely used and appreciated and 
very helpful to many of the list readers.


thank you
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Re: [GNC] GNC Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Patrick Byrne]

I'm against it too. We use [] tags at work to indicate the relevant project
for an email thread, but with this mailing list gmail can use the
'gnucash-user' email to tag all mails from this thread. I would assume that
many other email clients also offer such facilities.

--
__̴ı ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡| ̲▫̲͡ π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡
̡͌l.___Patrick Byrne

On 10 April 2018 at 11:34, Mark Lawrence  wrote:

> On 09/04/18 13:41, Stephen Albert wrote:
>
>> I'd also prefer [GC] over [GNC].
>>
>>
> I prefer nothing.  The [GNC] looks quite dreadful as it is completely
> unneeded. I'm on gmane.comp.gnome.apps.gnucash.user, why do I need some
> stupid piece of data confirming something that I all ready know?
>
> --
> My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
> what you can do for our language.
>
> Mark Lawrence
>
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Raymond Smith]

I also prefer keeping the subject prefix.

Ray

On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 2:17 PM, Adrien Monteleone <
adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> Ralph,
>
> What is your e-mail client? Can it not filter mail? Can it not tag mail?
> Can it not handle mailing-lists?
>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> > On Apr 10, 2018, at 3:20 PM, listreader <susel...@cableone.net> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 22:00:33 +0500
> > "David T. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I have tallied up the responses regarding subject prefixes thus far,
> >> and it appears that 7 people are in favor of this change.
> >>
> >> In contrast, 20 people (including three of the development team) have
> >> expressed negative opinions regarding this addition. [In the interest
> >> of objectivity, I am one of this group.]
> >>
> >> It is unclear to me why such a change would be implemented based on
> >> the opinions of two readers (the total number of positive replies
> >> prior to implementation), and then not reverted when nearly three
> >> times the number of readers expressed their objectons to it.
> >
> > Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means.  In my
> > experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes'
> > they don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the
> > same 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.
> >
> > I subscribe to around 20 very busy mailing lists, all intentionally
> > sent to the same mailbox folder so as not to interfere with all my
> > other more urgent business and personal mailbox folders, and all but
> > GnuCash have always used a subject prefix. (including one which uses the
> > useless/annoying '[Users]' as its prefix but that is another story).
> > The prefix is EXTREMELY useful to me. So add me to the 'approve' side
> > of your tally.
> >
> > Ralph
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Re: [GNC] GNC Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Mark Lawrence]

On 09/04/18 13:41, Stephen Albert wrote:

I'd also prefer [GC] over [GNC].



I prefer nothing.  The [GNC] looks quite dreadful as it is completely 
unneeded. I'm on gmane.comp.gnome.apps.gnucash.user, why do I need some 
stupid piece of data confirming something that I all ready know?


--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence

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Re: [GNC] Fwd: Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

Yep, as noted earlier in the thread (and another thread some weeks ago) I don’t 
think that Mailman setting is working properly.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 11, 2018, at 12:15 AM, Dave H  wrote:
> 
> Hello people,
> 
> Please note the following as Reply All apparently has unintended
> consequences.
> 
> Cheers Dave H.
> 
> 
> Hello Dave...
> 
> Please edit the message's 'to' list before you reply to a mailing list
> message. I read the list, I get the message you send to the list, I
> don't need an additional copy sent directly to me when it's not even my
> message you are replying to. That's just lazy. Thanks.
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

I can see the X-mailer header. I’m aware of Claws Mail. The questions were 
rhetorical, sorry.

Interesting though that you have 154 filters shoveling mail into 80 folders 
(with 28 of them top level) yet you prefer to ‘filter’ gnucash-user without any 
of that...

You’re right, this is ridiculous.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 11:10 PM, listreader <susel...@cableone.net> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 16:17:55 -0500
> Adrien Monteleone <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:
> 
>> What is your e-mail client? Can it not filter mail? Can it not tag
>> mail? Can it not handle mailing-lists?
> 
> Hello Adrien...
> 
> Mail clients are usually identified in the email header (X-mailer,
> User-Agent, or etc) so I'm not sure why you are asking since mine is
> right there in front of you but whatever. You can see that mine is
> Claws Mail. And, yes, of course it can filter, tag, and/or handle
> mailing lists. It is, in fact, likely the most configurable gui mail
> client there is in any OS, though I myself hardly use it to it's maximum
> capabilities.
> 
> I'm an old timer, left over from arpanet days, so I 'live' in email
> probably far more than most people nowadays.  I use 3 mail servers: (1)
> my cable isp, (2) a 'free mail' provider whose name doesn't start with
> the letter 'g', and (3) my owned domain's mail server.
> 
> I 'filter' at the server level, I have completely separate email
> accounts for many of my contacts, a different address for each, and
> where volume is low to a particular contact, I use aliases, again at
> the server level.  This is supplemented at the client level with 154
> additional filters (yeah, I actually just counted them for this
> message), some of which have multiple if/or sub-filters, all ending up
> in 28 main folders with additional sub-folders below some of those, 80
> folders in total, not counting archive and spam folders.  I think
> that's enough, thanks, don't need more.  So I prefer to 'filter' the
> mailing list folder with just my eyes.
> 
> And this discussion is all now so ridiculously off-topic to this list's
> purpose that maybe we need a new subject prefix '[GNC-OT]' for 'off
> topic' discussions, so we can filter it out :-)
> 
> Ralph
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[GNC] Fwd: Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Dave H]

Hello people,

Please note the following as Reply All apparently has unintended
consequences.

Cheers Dave H.


Hello Dave...

Please edit the message's 'to' list before you reply to a mailing list
message. I read the list, I get the message you send to the list, I
don't need an additional copy sent directly to me when it's not even my
message you are replying to. That's just lazy. Thanks.
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[listreader]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 07:11:43 +0500
D <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I am fully aware of the limitations of self-selected surveys and
> their validity of gauging sentiment. I was not intending to submit my
> research to any peer reviewed journals. I *will* note that the
> replies to my own non-scientific survey continue to trend at about
> three to one against, which, while not necessarily statistically
> valid, nevertheless tends to indicate an overall negative view of the
> decision.
> 
> I am more concerned that these changes were implemented at the urging
> of (at the time) a grand total of TWO individual requests, all
> without any request for feedback from the rest of the readership. And
> now, when it has been raised as an issue, I'm not hearing any
> indication of a reversal.
> 
> So, if I suggest that the list prefix should use emojis instead
> (like, say, []), and someone (perversely) agrees with that, will
> that get implemented? It is distinctive, and one third shorter than
> "GNC", after all.
 
Hello David...

I personally find the Prefix VERY useful, as explained in another post,
but I could if I wished simply code a pre-processing of the incoming
gnucash-user emails to add a '[GNC]' to the subject if it wasn't there,
probably would take me a few seconds to do so, I just never thought to
do so before. Likewise, you could write a pre-process that removes the
'[GNC]' on your incoming emails if you so desired, assuming your email
client supports it. IMHO, this is NOT a real issue to get aggravated
about.

Anyway, in my 'just a user' opinion this also isn't really the way to
go about it.  A technical mailing list is not a democratic institution.
Take it up with the mailing list administrator directly, off list, and
leave the list for actual GnuCash discussions. Just my 2 and 3/4 cents
(inflation, you know...) 

Ralph
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[listreader]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 16:17:55 -0500
Adrien Monteleone <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> What is your e-mail client? Can it not filter mail? Can it not tag
> mail? Can it not handle mailing-lists?

Hello Adrien...

Mail clients are usually identified in the email header (X-mailer,
User-Agent, or etc) so I'm not sure why you are asking since mine is
right there in front of you but whatever. You can see that mine is
Claws Mail. And, yes, of course it can filter, tag, and/or handle
mailing lists. It is, in fact, likely the most configurable gui mail
client there is in any OS, though I myself hardly use it to it's maximum
capabilities.

I'm an old timer, left over from arpanet days, so I 'live' in email
probably far more than most people nowadays.  I use 3 mail servers: (1)
my cable isp, (2) a 'free mail' provider whose name doesn't start with
the letter 'g', and (3) my owned domain's mail server.

I 'filter' at the server level, I have completely separate email
accounts for many of my contacts, a different address for each, and
where volume is low to a particular contact, I use aliases, again at
the server level.  This is supplemented at the client level with 154
additional filters (yeah, I actually just counted them for this
message), some of which have multiple if/or sub-filters, all ending up
in 28 main folders with additional sub-folders below some of those, 80
folders in total, not counting archive and spam folders.  I think
that's enough, thanks, don't need more.  So I prefer to 'filter' the
mailing list folder with just my eyes.

And this discussion is all now so ridiculously off-topic to this list's
purpose that maybe we need a new subject prefix '[GNC-OT]' for 'off
topic' discussions, so we can filter it out :-)

Ralph
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

To be fair, and as I noted in another reply, not often around these parts. But 
I have seen it on other lists. The most likely case would be devs from other 
projects (maybe GTK) getting involved in a discussion on the gnucash-devel list.

However, I see the dev list now has their own tag, which is quite odd since 
I’ve yet to see a developer chime in support of this. The ones I recognize so 
far are all not particularly keen on it.

I sure hope no one posts to both -dev and -user for the same message. What will 
we get when replies start flying from and to each?

Oh, I take that back, I just stopped to check that list, and it seems JohnR 
cross-posts release announcements to both. (And possibly -announce as well) 
Tick-tock...

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 5:50 PM, Rich Shepard  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
> 
>> I can see how cross-posted messages would turn into tag soup if every list
>> followed this behavior.
> 
> Adrien,
> 
>  Without intending to take the thread onto a different track, how common
> are corss-posted messages? Where are they cross-posted? I've not seen any,
> on any mail list to which I'm subscribed.
> 
> Rich
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

My copy of that message shows Dave copied you directly, you’re probably looking 
at that version which is why there are no associated list headers.

You don’t need three separate filters. I attached a screenshot of the rules I 
set way back earlier in the thread. (as have others)

the tl;dr is you just set three ‘any’ conditions, one each on To, CC, and From 
‘contains’ ‘gnucash-user’ then either tag or file away as desired. You could 
probably even manage something that pre-pends the [GNC] if you like.

It’s not difficult.

We’re all people using double entry accounting for crying out loud. If we can 
manage that, we can manage e-mail filtering and tagging.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 8:44 PM, William Bixby <wbi...@usa.net> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, in my emails from Gnucash I do not see any headers with tags
> mailing-list
> mailed-by
> 
> On most of them I see a tag
> List-id
> But that is not a field I can filter on from my ISP
> 
> In this message from Dave I see my email as the to: and
> Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org  as the CC: but there is no List-id
> 
> The only lists I see in my inbox today with a mailing-list tag are from 
> yahoo-groups.
> 
> So the filters Dave suggests would be incomplete, a CC is also needed.
> Maybe also a 'From' just to be sure?
> 
> The emails from the list seem to have a variety of header forms, perhaps 
> depending on the mailers used for the reply, or the reply-to or reply-list or 
> reply-all forms. Seems hard to keep track of all the possibilities.
> 
> Instead of requiring 2-3 or more filters for each list, the subject code 
> allows a single filter to do the job, consistently, never misses.
> 
> On 04/10/2018 08:43 PM, Dave H wrote:
>> The headers include :-
>>   to:Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
>> <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
>> mailing list: gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
>> mailed-by: gnucash.org <http://gnucash.org>
>> if those aren't sufficient to filter on what is :-)
>> Cheers Dave H.
>> On 11 April 2018 at 10:11, William Bixby <wbi...@usa.net 
>> <mailto:wbi...@usa.net>> wrote:
>>Adrien, my headers for your message show this email is from you, not
>>the list:
>>From:  Adrien Monteleone <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net
>><mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>>
>>Mime-Version:  1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\))
>>Date:  Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:17:55 -0500
>>To:  Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>><mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
>>Subject:  Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix
>>List-Id:  General Accounting Discussions ><http://gnucash-user.gnucash.org>>
>>On 04/10/2018 06:17 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>>The mail already *is* from the list.
>>This can get flubbed when people start using reply-all and
>>leaving the original senders in the mix. As this continues in
>>the thread, individual e-mail addresses start bouncing around
>>between To and CC and the list address usually gets relegated to
>>CC permanently. But it doesn’t matter because one can always set
>>their filters to include To, CC and From (if not also, or
>>instead, reply-to) and there should be no issue.
>>There is a case for reply-all, but it involves cross-posted
>>messages (to other lists) or one-off participants who aren’t
>>list members. This is pretty rare here. (Occasionally you’ll see
>>a message posted on both -dev and -user but not often and so
>>many are on both) I don’t think I’ve seen any cross-postings to
>>outside lists. On the off chance a non-member participates (with
>>moderator approval) it would likely be obvious and you could
>>include their personal address.
>>Regards,
>>Adrien
>>On Apr 10, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Dale Alspach
>><alspac...@gmail.com <mailto:alspac...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix:
>>Would having the email from be from the list
>>(gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>)
>>instead of the user (original sender) serve as well?
>>This would also help with the "remember to reply to the
>>list" issue. Reply,
>>Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address.
>>I believe the mailing list software would still put the
&g

Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

I stand corrected. I could have sworn it was ‘from’ the list, but alas...

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 7:11 PM, William Bixby <wbi...@usa.net> wrote:
> 
> Adrien, my headers for your message show this email is from you, not the list:
> From:  Adrien Monteleone <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>
> Mime-Version:  1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\))
> Date:  Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:17:55 -0500
> To:  Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
> Subject:  Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix
> List-Id:  General Accounting Discussions 
> 
> 
> 
> On 04/10/2018 06:17 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> The mail already *is* from the list.
>> This can get flubbed when people start using reply-all and leaving the 
>> original senders in the mix. As this continues in the thread, individual 
>> e-mail addresses start bouncing around between To and CC and the list 
>> address usually gets relegated to CC permanently. But it doesn’t matter 
>> because one can always set their filters to include To, CC and From (if not 
>> also, or instead, reply-to) and there should be no issue.
>> There is a case for reply-all, but it involves cross-posted messages (to 
>> other lists) or one-off participants who aren’t list members. This is pretty 
>> rare here. (Occasionally you’ll see a message posted on both -dev and -user 
>> but not often and so many are on both) I don’t think I’ve seen any 
>> cross-postings to outside lists. On the off chance a non-member participates 
>> (with moderator approval) it would likely be obvious and you could include 
>> their personal address.
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>> On Apr 10, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Dale Alspach <alspac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix:
>>> Would having the email from be from the list (gnucash-user@gnucash.org)
>>> instead of the user (original sender) serve as well?
>>> 
>>> This would also help with the "remember to reply to the list" issue. Reply,
>>> Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address.
>>> I believe the mailing list software would still put the original sender
>>> address in the headers so that an off-list reply would be possible.
>>> 
>>> Some view this type of address munging as being bad but I believe that in
>>> the case of gnucash-user this is the de facto preference of the maintainers
>>> and developers.
>>> 
>>> Dale
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Rich Shepard <rshep...@appl-ecosys.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, listreader wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means. In my
>>>>> experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes' they
>>>>> don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the same
>>>>> 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  Please add my vote to the neutral category. I subscribe to about a dozen
>>>> mail lists, most use a list-related prefix in brackets; a couple don't.
>>>> Because incoming messages are sorted into list-specific files the only time
>>>> the prepended tags matter is when multiple lists cover the same topic.
>>>> 
>>>>  GnuCash is the only bookkeeping application I use so a prepended tag
>>>> makes
>>>> no difference to me. But, for those who don't automatically sort incoming
>>>> messages it could well be helpful.
>>>> 
>>>>  If having it present does no harm there's no reason to remove it, in my
>>>> opinion. If you're reading e-mail on a phone, watch, or other small device
>>>> and cannot see the entire subject line you probably have the ability to
>>>> scroll horizontally as well as vertically.
>>>> 
>>>> Rich
>>>> 
>>>> ___
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>>>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
>>>> 
>>> 

Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[William Bixby]

Oh yes, I was looking at the detailed headers from my webmail version.
only 4 tags displayed with details turned off, 43 header tags in detail.

But no mailing-list, closest is list-id.

Many of the tags are prefixed X- and appear to be tags added by the 
ISP's virus and spam processing or details of the message routing.


examples
X-Spam-Status
X-Spam-Checker-Version:
X-Virus-Status:
X-USANET-Received
X-USANET-Source
X-Mailman-Version:  2.1.21

Perhaps the ISP's Mailman translates the mailing-list tag to list-id.
(and 5 other list- tags)
If so, I wouldn't be surprised if other ISPs made comparable updates, so 
a general 'rule' to filter on mailing-list may not be as universal as 
suspected.


No one filter plan works for all ISPs and mail agents and webmails, etc.
Except for filtering by the subject line tag for the list.
Hence for the preponderance of lists using subject line tags.


On 04/10/2018 10:23 PM, Adonay Felipe Nogueira wrote:

2018-04-10T21:44:15-0400 William Bixby wrote:

Interesting, in my emails from Gnucash I do not see any headers with tags
mailing-list
mailed-by


Depends on email reader software (or webmail if you use it), although
good webmail also let's you inspect the message in raw form (which will
of course show all header fields).


On most of them I see a tag
List-id
But that is not a field I can filter on from my ISP

In this message from Dave I see my email as the to: and
Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org  as the CC: but there is no List-id


Note that since you don't see "List-id" it means that the email message
came directly to the server of the email service provider you rely on
--- that means it didn't pass over the mailing list at the time the
message came to you ---, you should by now also have received a
duplicated message that comes from the mailing list bouncer and which
has the "List-id" header field.


So the filters Dave suggests would be incomplete, a CC is also needed.
Maybe also a 'From' just to be sure?

The emails from the list seem to have a variety of header forms,
perhaps depending on the mailers used for the reply, or the reply-to
or reply-list or reply-all forms. Seems hard to keep track of all the
possibilities.

Instead of requiring 2-3 or more filters for each list, the subject
code allows a single filter to do the job, consistently, never misses.


Some filters allow you to match field names with a regular expression
standard/syntax --- /e.g./: "^\(To\|Cc\|List-id\)" if they have
separated space to match only the field *names*, or
"^\(To\|Cc\|List-id\):.*gnucash-user@gnucash\.org" if they don't, both
examples use GNU Emacs regular expressions but the email filter you use
might require other syntax --- or the filter might also allow you to
chain some condition checks --- /e.g./: ( To OR Cc OR List-id ) ==
"gnucash-user@gnucash.org".
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--
Bill Bixby
Laconia NH
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adonay Felipe Nogueira]

2018-04-10T21:44:15-0400 William Bixby wrote:
> Interesting, in my emails from Gnucash I do not see any headers with tags
> mailing-list
> mailed-by

Depends on email reader software (or webmail if you use it), although
good webmail also let's you inspect the message in raw form (which will
of course show all header fields).

> On most of them I see a tag
> List-id
> But that is not a field I can filter on from my ISP
>
> In this message from Dave I see my email as the to: and
> Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org  as the CC: but there is no List-id

Note that since you don't see "List-id" it means that the email message
came directly to the server of the email service provider you rely on
--- that means it didn't pass over the mailing list at the time the
message came to you ---, you should by now also have received a
duplicated message that comes from the mailing list bouncer and which
has the "List-id" header field.

> So the filters Dave suggests would be incomplete, a CC is also needed.
> Maybe also a 'From' just to be sure?
>
> The emails from the list seem to have a variety of header forms,
> perhaps depending on the mailers used for the reply, or the reply-to
> or reply-list or reply-all forms. Seems hard to keep track of all the
> possibilities.
>
> Instead of requiring 2-3 or more filters for each list, the subject
> code allows a single filter to do the job, consistently, never misses.

Some filters allow you to match field names with a regular expression
standard/syntax --- /e.g./: "^\(To\|Cc\|List-id\)" if they have
separated space to match only the field *names*, or
"^\(To\|Cc\|List-id\):.*gnucash-user@gnucash\.org" if they don't, both
examples use GNU Emacs regular expressions but the email filter you use
might require other syntax --- or the filter might also allow you to
chain some condition checks --- /e.g./: ( To OR Cc OR List-id ) ==
"gnucash-user@gnucash.org".
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Dave H]

Yes please can we have emojis instead :-)

Your concerns are also mine, it was requested by one person who didn't seem
to be a regular reader/contributor and someone else that also looked to be
a non-contributor to the mailing list followed up with a wow this is a
great idea.  Despite a few people at the time saying they didn't want it,
Liz chose to implement it and we haven't heard a dicky bird from her
since.  I would have much preferred some sort of survey of the list to
gauge support for the proposal before arbitrarily forcing it on everyone.

Might as well go off to Nabble and read all about it :-)

Cheers Dave H.


On 11 April 2018 at 12:11, D via gnucash-user <gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
wrote:

> Ralph,
>
> I am fully aware of the limitations of self-selected surveys and their
> validity of gauging sentiment. I was not intending to submit my research to
> any peer reviewed journals.
>
> I *will* note that the replies to my own non-scientific survey continue to
> trend at about three to one against, which, while not necessarily
> statistically valid, nevertheless tends to indicate an overall negative
> view of the decision.
>
> I am more concerned that these changes were implemented at the urging of
> (at the time) a grand total of TWO individual requests, all without any
> request for feedback from the rest of the readership. And now, when it has
> been raised as an issue, I'm not hearing any indication of a reversal.
>
> So, if I suggest that the list prefix should use emojis instead (like,
> say, []), and someone (perversely) agrees with that, will that get
> implemented? It is distinctive, and one third shorter than "GNC", after all.
>
> David T.
>
>
>
> On April 11, 2018, at 1:20 AM, listreader <susel...@cableone.net> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 22:00:33 +0500
> "David T. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>
> > I have tallied up the responses regarding subject prefixes thus far,
> > and it appears that 7 people are in favor of this change.
> >
> > In contrast, 20 people (including three of the development team) have
> > expressed negative opinions regarding this addition. [In the interest
> > of objectivity, I am one of this group.]
> >
> > It is unclear to me why such a change would be implemented based on
> > the opinions of two readers (the total number of positive replies
> > prior to implementation), and then not reverted when nearly three
> > times the number of readers expressed their objectons to it.
>
> Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means.  In my
> experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes'
> they don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the
> same 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.
>
> I subscribe to around 20 very busy mailing lists, all intentionally
> sent to the same mailbox folder so as not to interfere with all my
> other more urgent business and personal mailbox folders, and all but
> GnuCash have always used a subject prefix. (including one which uses the
> useless/annoying '[Users]' as its prefix but that is another story).
> The prefix is EXTREMELY useful to me. So add me to the 'approve' side
> of your tally.
>
> Ralph
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[D via gnucash-user]

Ralph,

I am fully aware of the limitations of self-selected surveys and their validity 
of gauging sentiment. I was not intending to submit my research to any peer 
reviewed journals.
 
I *will* note that the replies to my own non-scientific survey continue to 
trend at about three to one against, which, while not necessarily statistically 
valid, nevertheless tends to indicate an overall negative view of the decision.

I am more concerned that these changes were implemented at the urging of (at 
the time) a grand total of TWO individual requests, all without any request for 
feedback from the rest of the readership. And now, when it has been raised as 
an issue, I'm not hearing any indication of a reversal.

So, if I suggest that the list prefix should use emojis instead (like, say, 
[]), and someone (perversely) agrees with that, will that get implemented? It 
is distinctive, and one third shorter than "GNC", after all.

David T.



On April 11, 2018, at 1:20 AM, listreader <susel...@cableone.net> wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 22:00:33 +0500
"David T. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> I have tallied up the responses regarding subject prefixes thus far,
> and it appears that 7 people are in favor of this change.
> 
> In contrast, 20 people (including three of the development team) have
> expressed negative opinions regarding this addition. [In the interest
> of objectivity, I am one of this group.]
> 
> It is unclear to me why such a change would be implemented based on
> the opinions of two readers (the total number of positive replies
> prior to implementation), and then not reverted when nearly three
> times the number of readers expressed their objectons to it.

Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means.  In my
experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes'
they don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the
same 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.

I subscribe to around 20 very busy mailing lists, all intentionally
sent to the same mailbox folder so as not to interfere with all my
other more urgent business and personal mailbox folders, and all but
GnuCash have always used a subject prefix. (including one which uses the
useless/annoying '[Users]' as its prefix but that is another story).
The prefix is EXTREMELY useful to me. So add me to the 'approve' side
of your tally.

Ralph
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[William Bixby]

Interesting, in my emails from Gnucash I do not see any headers with tags
mailing-list
mailed-by

On most of them I see a tag
List-id
But that is not a field I can filter on from my ISP

In this message from Dave I see my email as the to: and
Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org  as the CC: but there is no List-id

The only lists I see in my inbox today with a mailing-list tag are from 
yahoo-groups.


So the filters Dave suggests would be incomplete, a CC is also needed.
Maybe also a 'From' just to be sure?

The emails from the list seem to have a variety of header forms, perhaps 
depending on the mailers used for the reply, or the reply-to or 
reply-list or reply-all forms. Seems hard to keep track of all the 
possibilities.


Instead of requiring 2-3 or more filters for each list, the subject code 
allows a single filter to do the job, consistently, never misses.


On 04/10/2018 08:43 PM, Dave H wrote:

The headers include :-

               to:    Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org 
<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>

mailing list: gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
mailed-by: gnucash.org <http://gnucash.org>

if those aren't sufficient to filter on what is :-)

Cheers Dave H.





On 11 April 2018 at 10:11, William Bixby <wbi...@usa.net 
<mailto:wbi...@usa.net>> wrote:


Adrien, my headers for your message show this email is from you, not
the list:
From:  Adrien Monteleone <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net
<mailto:adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>>
Mime-Version:  1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\))
Date:  Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:17:55 -0500
To:  Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org
<mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>>
Subject:  Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix
List-Id:  General Accounting Discussions http://gnucash-user.gnucash.org>>




On 04/10/2018 06:17 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

The mail already *is* from the list.

This can get flubbed when people start using reply-all and
leaving the original senders in the mix. As this continues in
the thread, individual e-mail addresses start bouncing around
between To and CC and the list address usually gets relegated to
CC permanently. But it doesn’t matter because one can always set
their filters to include To, CC and From (if not also, or
instead, reply-to) and there should be no issue.

There is a case for reply-all, but it involves cross-posted
messages (to other lists) or one-off participants who aren’t
list members. This is pretty rare here. (Occasionally you’ll see
a message posted on both -dev and -user but not often and so
many are on both) I don’t think I’ve seen any cross-postings to
outside lists. On the off chance a non-member participates (with
moderator approval) it would likely be obvious and you could
include their personal address.

Regards,
Adrien

On Apr 10, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Dale Alspach
<alspac...@gmail.com <mailto:alspac...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix:
Would having the email from be from the list
(gnucash-user@gnucash.org <mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org>)
instead of the user (original sender) serve as well?

This would also help with the "remember to reply to the
list" issue. Reply,
Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address.
I believe the mailing list software would still put the
original sender
address in the headers so that an off-list reply would be
possible.

Some view this type of address munging as being bad but I
believe that in
the case of gnucash-user this is the de facto preference of
the maintainers
and developers.

Dale


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Rich Shepard
<rshep...@appl-ecosys.com <mailto:rshep...@appl-ecosys.com>>
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, listreader wrote:

Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it
means. In my

experience, far more people are likely to complain
about 'changes' they
don't like than are people who approve or are
neutral about the same
'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.


   Please add my vote to the neutral category. I
subscribe to about a dozen
mail lists, most use a list-related prefix in brackets;
a couple don't.
Because incoming messages are sorted into list-specific
files 

Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Dave H]

The headers include :-

  to:Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
mailing list:gnucash-user@gnucash.org
mailed-by:gnucash.org

if those aren't sufficient to filter on what is :-)

Cheers Dave H.





On 11 April 2018 at 10:11, William Bixby <wbi...@usa.net> wrote:

> Adrien, my headers for your message show this email is from you, not the
> list:
> From:  Adrien Monteleone <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>
> Mime-Version:  1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\))
> Date:  Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:17:55 -0500
> To:  Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
> Subject:  Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix
> List-Id:  General Accounting Discussions 
>
>
>
>
> On 04/10/2018 06:17 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>
>> The mail already *is* from the list.
>>
>> This can get flubbed when people start using reply-all and leaving the
>> original senders in the mix. As this continues in the thread, individual
>> e-mail addresses start bouncing around between To and CC and the list
>> address usually gets relegated to CC permanently. But it doesn’t matter
>> because one can always set their filters to include To, CC and From (if not
>> also, or instead, reply-to) and there should be no issue.
>>
>> There is a case for reply-all, but it involves cross-posted messages (to
>> other lists) or one-off participants who aren’t list members. This is
>> pretty rare here. (Occasionally you’ll see a message posted on both -dev
>> and -user but not often and so many are on both) I don’t think I’ve seen
>> any cross-postings to outside lists. On the off chance a non-member
>> participates (with moderator approval) it would likely be obvious and you
>> could include their personal address.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>>
>> On Apr 10, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Dale Alspach <alspac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix:
>>> Would having the email from be from the list (gnucash-user@gnucash.org)
>>> instead of the user (original sender) serve as well?
>>>
>>> This would also help with the "remember to reply to the list" issue.
>>> Reply,
>>> Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address.
>>> I believe the mailing list software would still put the original sender
>>> address in the headers so that an off-list reply would be possible.
>>>
>>> Some view this type of address munging as being bad but I believe that in
>>> the case of gnucash-user this is the de facto preference of the
>>> maintainers
>>> and developers.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Rich Shepard <rshep...@appl-ecosys.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, listreader wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means. In my
>>>>
>>>>> experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes' they
>>>>> don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the same
>>>>> 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>   Please add my vote to the neutral category. I subscribe to about a
>>>> dozen
>>>> mail lists, most use a list-related prefix in brackets; a couple don't.
>>>> Because incoming messages are sorted into list-specific files the only
>>>> time
>>>> the prepended tags matter is when multiple lists cover the same topic.
>>>>
>>>>   GnuCash is the only bookkeeping application I use so a prepended tag
>>>> makes
>>>> no difference to me. But, for those who don't automatically sort
>>>> incoming
>>>> messages it could well be helpful.
>>>>
>>>>   If having it present does no harm there's no reason to remove it, in
>>>> my
>>>> opinion. If you're reading e-mail on a phone, watch, or other small
>>>> device
>>>> and cannot see the entire subject line you probably have the ability to
>>>> scroll horizontally as well as vertically.
>>>>
>>>> Rich
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> gnucash-user mailing list
>>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>>>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
>>>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
>>>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see
>>>> https://wiki.

Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[William Bixby]

Adrien, my headers for your message show this email is from you, not the 
list:

From:  Adrien Monteleone <adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net>
Mime-Version:  1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.3 \(3445.6.18\))
Date:  Tue, 10 Apr 2018 17:17:55 -0500
To:  Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org>
Subject:  Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix
List-Id:  General Accounting Discussions 



On 04/10/2018 06:17 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:

The mail already *is* from the list.

This can get flubbed when people start using reply-all and leaving the original 
senders in the mix. As this continues in the thread, individual e-mail 
addresses start bouncing around between To and CC and the list address usually 
gets relegated to CC permanently. But it doesn’t matter because one can always 
set their filters to include To, CC and From (if not also, or instead, 
reply-to) and there should be no issue.

There is a case for reply-all, but it involves cross-posted messages (to other 
lists) or one-off participants who aren’t list members. This is pretty rare 
here. (Occasionally you’ll see a message posted on both -dev and -user but not 
often and so many are on both) I don’t think I’ve seen any cross-postings to 
outside lists. On the off chance a non-member participates (with moderator 
approval) it would likely be obvious and you could include their personal 
address.

Regards,
Adrien


On Apr 10, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Dale Alspach <alspac...@gmail.com> wrote:

Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix:
Would having the email from be from the list (gnucash-user@gnucash.org)
instead of the user (original sender) serve as well?

This would also help with the "remember to reply to the list" issue. Reply,
Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address.
I believe the mailing list software would still put the original sender
address in the headers so that an off-list reply would be possible.

Some view this type of address munging as being bad but I believe that in
the case of gnucash-user this is the de facto preference of the maintainers
and developers.

Dale


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Rich Shepard <rshep...@appl-ecosys.com>
wrote:


On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, listreader wrote:

Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means. In my

experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes' they
don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the same
'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.



  Please add my vote to the neutral category. I subscribe to about a dozen
mail lists, most use a list-related prefix in brackets; a couple don't.
Because incoming messages are sorted into list-specific files the only time
the prepended tags matter is when multiple lists cover the same topic.

  GnuCash is the only bookkeeping application I use so a prepended tag
makes
no difference to me. But, for those who don't automatically sort incoming
messages it could well be helpful.

  If having it present does no harm there's no reason to remove it, in my
opinion. If you're reading e-mail on a phone, watch, or other small device
and cannot see the entire subject line you probably have the ability to
scroll horizontally as well as vertically.

Rich

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--
Bill Bixby
Laconia NH
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, Adrien Monteleone wrote:


I can see how cross-posted messages would turn into tag soup if every list
followed this behavior.


Adrien,

  Without intending to take the thread onto a different track, how common
are corss-posted messages? Where are they cross-posted? I've not seen any,
on any mail list to which I'm subscribed.

Rich
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

The mail already *is* from the list.

This can get flubbed when people start using reply-all and leaving the original 
senders in the mix. As this continues in the thread, individual e-mail 
addresses start bouncing around between To and CC and the list address usually 
gets relegated to CC permanently. But it doesn’t matter because one can always 
set their filters to include To, CC and From (if not also, or instead, 
reply-to) and there should be no issue.

There is a case for reply-all, but it involves cross-posted messages (to other 
lists) or one-off participants who aren’t list members. This is pretty rare 
here. (Occasionally you’ll see a message posted on both -dev and -user but not 
often and so many are on both) I don’t think I’ve seen any cross-postings to 
outside lists. On the off chance a non-member participates (with moderator 
approval) it would likely be obvious and you could include their personal 
address.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 4:38 PM, Dale Alspach <alspac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix:
> Would having the email from be from the list (gnucash-user@gnucash.org)
> instead of the user (original sender) serve as well?
> 
> This would also help with the "remember to reply to the list" issue. Reply,
> Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address.
> I believe the mailing list software would still put the original sender
> address in the headers so that an off-list reply would be possible.
> 
> Some view this type of address munging as being bad but I believe that in
> the case of gnucash-user this is the de facto preference of the maintainers
> and developers.
> 
> Dale
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Rich Shepard <rshep...@appl-ecosys.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, listreader wrote:
>> 
>> Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means. In my
>>> experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes' they
>>> don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the same
>>> 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.
>>> 
>> 
>>  Please add my vote to the neutral category. I subscribe to about a dozen
>> mail lists, most use a list-related prefix in brackets; a couple don't.
>> Because incoming messages are sorted into list-specific files the only time
>> the prepended tags matter is when multiple lists cover the same topic.
>> 
>>  GnuCash is the only bookkeeping application I use so a prepended tag
>> makes
>> no difference to me. But, for those who don't automatically sort incoming
>> messages it could well be helpful.
>> 
>>  If having it present does no harm there's no reason to remove it, in my
>> opinion. If you're reading e-mail on a phone, watch, or other small device
>> and cannot see the entire subject line you probably have the ability to
>> scroll horizontally as well as vertically.
>> 
>> Rich
>> 
>> ___
>> gnucash-user mailing list
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

I do the same.

I’ve noticed though that despite Mailman being set not to deliver duplicates if 
you are also in the To or CC fields, it does so anyway. I think it was Geert 
who did that as a test a few weeks back and I got two copies, one got filed 
(the list copy) and the other stayed in my inbox. (the one direct from him) I 
think the problem there is the list is going to send you at least one copy, but 
the individual sending the mail is including you in a To or CC field, which 
gets handled by their client and their mail provider - not the list. Thus there 
are still two independent routes.

So I usually remove the personal addresses and move the list address up.

While the tag it’s no skin off my nose, it is a tad annoying. It’s now visual 
clutter I have to filter out. (despite that I bother to filter the messages 
into their own folder) I can see how cross-posted messages would turn into tag 
soup if every list followed this behavior.

And the real stickler for me on the whole topic, is this was added because some 
people don’t want to be bothered to configure their own mail client properly or 
don’t know how. (not to mention, it was added very quickly, even after the 
initial requestor withdrew the request!)

I’ve yet to see the very few who like or asked for this change to give us an 
example of a mail client that can’t filter, tag or otherwise identify list mail.

That’s my 2¢, or $1 factoring for inflation.

Regards,
Adrien

p.s. - I wonder what will happen to some people’s threadings if I manually 
remove that [GNC] tag in the subject line after “Re:” ?? Certainly, a good mail 
client will thread off the message-id, but that’s not always the case. Will 
Mailman add it back?

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 4:53 PM, Rich Shepard <rshep...@appl-ecosys.com> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, Dale Alspach wrote:
> 
>> Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix: Would having the email from
>> be from the list (gnucash-user@gnucash.org) instead of the user (original
>> sender) serve as well?
> 
> Dale,
> 
>  Doesn't matter to me, in most cases. When I reply to a message that has
> both the sender's address and the list alpine puts the sender's address on
> the To: line and the list address on the Cc: line. Before sending I delete
> the former and move the latter up.
> 
>  There are times when a response to the individual rather than the list is
> appropriate. This is when the response is off the thread and is either off
> the mail list topic or is of a personal nature. Having both addresses
> availalbe accommodates all situations.
> 
>> This would also help with the "remember to reply to the list" issue.
>> Reply, Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address. I believe the
>> mailing list software would still put the original sender address in the
>> headers so that an off-list reply would be possible.
> 
>  When I respond to a message, such as this one, alpine asks me if I want to
> respond to all. My fingers default to 'yes.' Often, both the sender and the
> list are on the header and I adjust as desired, usually removing the
> sender's address as they get a copy from the list in any case.
> 
>  All mail lists prefer threads to remain on the list so that future readers
> can see the entire thread.
> 
>  I admit to not seeing where having [GNC] as a subject line prefix is
> harmful to any list subscriber; perhaps that's because it is not an issue
> for me either way.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rich
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Rich Shepard]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, Dale Alspach wrote:


Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix: Would having the email from
be from the list (gnucash-user@gnucash.org) instead of the user (original
sender) serve as well?


Dale,

  Doesn't matter to me, in most cases. When I reply to a message that has
both the sender's address and the list alpine puts the sender's address on
the To: line and the list address on the Cc: line. Before sending I delete
the former and move the latter up.

  There are times when a response to the individual rather than the list is
appropriate. This is when the response is off the thread and is either off
the mail list topic or is of a personal nature. Having both addresses
availalbe accommodates all situations.


This would also help with the "remember to reply to the list" issue.
Reply, Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address. I believe the
mailing list software would still put the original sender address in the
headers so that an off-list reply would be possible.


  When I respond to a message, such as this one, alpine asks me if I want to
respond to all. My fingers default to 'yes.' Often, both the sender and the
list are on the header and I adjust as desired, usually removing the
sender's address as they get a copy from the list in any case.

  All mail lists prefer threads to remain on the list so that future readers
can see the entire thread.

  I admit to not seeing where having [GNC] as a subject line prefix is
harmful to any list subscriber; perhaps that's because it is not an issue
for me either way.

Regards,

Rich
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Dale Alspach]

Question for those who want the [GNC] prefix:
Would having the email from be from the list (gnucash-user@gnucash.org)
instead of the user (original sender) serve as well?

This would also help with the "remember to reply to the list" issue. Reply,
Reply-all, Reply-list would include the list address.
I believe the mailing list software would still put the original sender
address in the headers so that an off-list reply would be possible.

Some view this type of address munging as being bad but I believe that in
the case of gnucash-user this is the de facto preference of the maintainers
and developers.

Dale


On Tue, Apr 10, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Rich Shepard <rshep...@appl-ecosys.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, listreader wrote:
>
> Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means. In my
>> experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes' they
>> don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the same
>> 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.
>>
>
>   Please add my vote to the neutral category. I subscribe to about a dozen
> mail lists, most use a list-related prefix in brackets; a couple don't.
> Because incoming messages are sorted into list-specific files the only time
> the prepended tags matter is when multiple lists cover the same topic.
>
>   GnuCash is the only bookkeeping application I use so a prepended tag
> makes
> no difference to me. But, for those who don't automatically sort incoming
> messages it could well be helpful.
>
>   If having it present does no harm there's no reason to remove it, in my
> opinion. If you're reading e-mail on a phone, watch, or other small device
> and cannot see the entire subject line you probably have the ability to
> scroll horizontally as well as vertically.
>
> Rich
>
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[William Bixby]

I like the GNC prefix.

I have 20 mail lists that I subscribe to.
17 use the subject prefix which results in precise filtering to my 
folders at my ISP level (I don't need to filter locally, so I can access 
the emails in the proper folders no matter which platform and therefore 
email client I use, Linux, Windows, phone, tablet, etc.).


I try to filter the 3 lists without subject prefixes using the available 
sender, to, and CC options my ISP provides (list ID is not included, 
subject is available for the good lists that use a subject prefix).  But 
within each list the emails have the list name/address in various 
positions, it is not consistent.  Sometimes my ISP doesn't match the 
filters and then tags the email as junk.
But in the majority of my mail lists that DO use the subject prefix I 
have never had emails flagged as junk.  The filtering to folders is more 
precise.


I'm surprised at the objections, as my experience is that mail lists 
adding the list ID in the subject is the 'norm' and very common.  The 
few, like gnucash was, that don't are the outlier.


It may not be a 'standard' requirement for mail lists, but when almost 
all do it it becomes a 'defacto' standard and should be followed.




On 04/10/2018 04:48 PM, Rich Shepard wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2018, listreader wrote:


Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means. In my
experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes' they
don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the same
'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.


   Please add my vote to the neutral category. I subscribe to about a dozen
mail lists, most use a list-related prefix in brackets; a couple don't.
Because incoming messages are sorted into list-specific files the only time
the prepended tags matter is when multiple lists cover the same topic.

   GnuCash is the only bookkeeping application I use so a prepended tag 
makes

no difference to me. But, for those who don't automatically sort incoming
messages it could well be helpful.

   If having it present does no harm there's no reason to remove it, in my
opinion. If you're reading e-mail on a phone, watch, or other small device
and cannot see the entire subject line you probably have the ability to
scroll horizontally as well as vertically.

Rich

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--
Bill Bixby
Laconia NH
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Re: [GNC] Addition of Mailing List Subject Prefix

[Adrien Monteleone]

Ralph,

What is your e-mail client? Can it not filter mail? Can it not tag mail? Can it 
not handle mailing-lists?

Regards,
Adrien

> On Apr 10, 2018, at 3:20 PM, listreader <susel...@cableone.net> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 10 Apr 2018 22:00:33 +0500
> "David T. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
> 
>> I have tallied up the responses regarding subject prefixes thus far,
>> and it appears that 7 people are in favor of this change.
>> 
>> In contrast, 20 people (including three of the development team) have
>> expressed negative opinions regarding this addition. [In the interest
>> of objectivity, I am one of this group.]
>> 
>> It is unclear to me why such a change would be implemented based on
>> the opinions of two readers (the total number of positive replies
>> prior to implementation), and then not reverted when nearly three
>> times the number of readers expressed their objectons to it.
> 
> Your tally probably doesn't mean what you think it means.  In my
> experience, far more people are likely to complain about 'changes'
> they don't like than are people who approve or are neutral about the
> same 'changes'. Like on a ratio of 10 to 1 or greater.
> 
> I subscribe to around 20 very busy mailing lists, all intentionally
> sent to the same mailbox folder so as not to interfere with all my
> other more urgent business and personal mailbox folders, and all but
> GnuCash have always used a subject prefix. (including one which uses the
> useless/annoying '[Users]' as its prefix but that is another story).
> The prefix is EXTREMELY useful to me. So add me to the 'approve' side
> of your tally.
> 
> Ralph
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