Re: [RBW] WTB SCAMMER ALERT - gran09861@gmail

[Patrick Moore]

I often think that, given the trouble many criminals seem to take to make a
shady buck, it might be easier just to get a job.

On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 12:30 PM M G  wrote:

> It’s almost funny how deep into the weeds a scammer has to get when
> they’re chasing down photos of steel bike frames (total geek niche), of
> specific old sub-label bike frames (sub-level niche!) of odd non-mainstream
> geek’s geek label (sub-sub-sub-niche)….etc….  [however one would associate
> Herons with Rivs, etc]. (PS — i’d take any Heron or original Riv i came
> across….just….because, well, ya never know when you might NEED another one!)
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Rider Recipes

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, not cream cheese but a big dollop of industrial quantity mayonnaise.


On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:58 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... Slice the cheapest bulk bologna you can find into 1/4" slices, wrap
> around cream cheese and pimento and sliced pineapple, skewer with toothpick
> holding maraschino cherry
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Rider Recipes

[Patrick Moore]

Not to my taste, but I do recall a friend long ago who designed the
ultimate (for him) sandwich:

Take 2 slices of wheat berry bread (brown bread with whole grains mixed in;
that's what they called it back then).

Spread both heavily with peanut butter.

Add thick layer of cheddar and of salami.

Combine top and bottom slices.

Grills until all runs together.

That worked for him, but for me -- but for me, it's like spreading butter
on pound cake.

Oh! and I recall a tongue in cheek recipe created by my brother: "White
Trash Rolls." Slice the cheapest bulk bologna you can find into 1/4"
slices, wrap around cream cheese and pimento and sliced pineapple, skewer
with toothpick holding maraschino cherry.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:46 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:

> I'll make this literary introduction of a quick recipe for the non-peanut
> allergy non-cooks:
>
> Ernest Hemingway's Mt Everest Special: Spread peanut butter on toast (rye
> or sourdough recommended), with thinly sliced sweet onion (Vidalias are the
> best) placed on top (not too much, you'll know what looks right), and add a
> little cracked black pepper.
>
> For the seasoning inclined, experiment with adding turmeric, cayenne, or
> even cinnamon. Maybe some Himalayan salt.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Chris
>
> On Wednesday, June 5, 2024 at 12:37:05 PM UTC-7 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Here's a quick, easy and delicious camp dish that I call 'Cowboy Chili'.
>> It works best if you pass through a town late in the day and are not riding
>> much further as there's canned goods.
>>
>> 1 can of black beans
>> 1 can of sweet corn kernels
>> 1 can of chopped tomatoes (fire-roasted from Trader Joes!)
>> 1 large onion
>> Chopped garlic to taste (lots!)
>> Black pepper to taste
>> Salt to taste
>> Cumin to taste (lots!)
>>
>> Dice onions and fry in oil until carmelized. Add fresh garlic, salt and
>> pepper.
>> Add beans, corn and tomatoes. Stir in cumin.
>> Stew for 5-10 min.
>>
>> Serve with avocado, tortillas, chips, or whatever keeps your canoe
>> straight.
>>
>> Serves 2, or leftovers for breakfast
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 5, 2024 at 12:17:01 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Indian dal on the cheap and easy. Boil red or orange or yellow (brown
>>> rather earthy for my taste) in 3X water until soft.
>>>
>>> Cook about 1.5X long grain rice with a bit of cardamom seed.
>>>
>>> In small skillet or saucepan heat as much oil as you like to "wet" the
>>> lentil and rice mixture, and  with some and or all of: garlic, coriander,
>>> cumin, red pepper, bay leaf, ginger, asafoetida, ... sizzle for 30 seconds
>>> or so and pour over lentils and rice. Salt to taste.
>>>
>>> Augment with full fat yogurt, Indian mango pickle, British sweet
>>> chutney. Or, augment with raita in place of plain fat yogurt: 1 lg cucumber
>>> peeled and grated, 2 c full fat yogurt, big handfull of chopped fresh mint,
>>> tsp ground cumin: mix all and enjoy.
>>>
>>> I often add the oil and spices to the cooking lentils with chopped onion
>>> sautted and diced spinach (I use frozen because I don't like to clean and
>>> prep vegetables; and the nutrition is at least as good) for a sort of
>>> lentil stew.
>>>
>>> 2. New Mexico pinto beans.
>>>
>>> 2 c dried pinto beans -- soak over night and cook in pressure cooker for
>>> ~1 hour including cooldown or for 24 hours at least in crockpot on low.
>>>
>>> 1 large chopped onion sauteed with garlic, cumin, oregano, red pepper,
>>> add beans and can of chopped or crushed tomatoes and chopped spinach or
>>> Kale.
>>>
>>> Salt to taste.
>>>
>>> Eat with flour tortillas or rice or add potatoes: dice and nuke ~2 med
>>> potatoes until done, add to above.
>>>
>>> 3. Cheese spaghetti: An adult's mac + cheese. Cook 8 oz dry spaghetti,
>>> save water, met combo of butter and olive oil in skillet, sautee garlic (I
>>> get quart chopped garlic at Costco), add cooked spaghetti and ~1 c pasta
>>> water, bring to boil, add 1/2 c parmesan or romano and 1/2
>>> non-parmesan/romano -- I use Costco 5 lb shredded Mexican mix but anything
>>> will do. Add salt and black pepper to taste.
>>>
>>> Recipe also calls for 2 tbsp cream cheese and 2/3 c heavy cream but
>>> that's disgusting; add a bit more cheese instead.
>>>
>>>
>>> 4. Grilled salmon: farmed or fresh fillets. Dribble with plent

Re: [RBW] 2024 13&17 Cicada plague

[Patrick Moore]

Come to think of it, I rather think that these "mayflies" may have been
ants in their annual winged and migratory state.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:27 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks. Those photos reminded me of the annual swarms of mayflies whose
> numbers would explode at the beginning of the summer rains in East Africa.
> We had batteries of outdoor lights around our somewhat isolated (surrounded
> by sq miles of coffee plantation) house to protect against the then-common
> armed gang attacks, and these things would swarm around the lights, very
> quickly lose their gossamer wings, and fall to the ground in pullulating
> masses on the ground. Others would swarm in the air to provide a
> magnificent feast for birds.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:16 PM George Schick  wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.nbcchicago.com/cicadas-illinois-chicago-2024/photos-the-2024-cicada-emergence-in-chicago-area-and-illinois/3442146/
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 5, 2024 at 3:08:28 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> We want photos!
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore, cycling in ABQ, NM where the greatest insect threats are
>>> clouds of midges very oddly interspaced on the Rio Grande bike path at
>>> mouth height.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:05 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone been biking during the past month or so in areas where these
>>>> @$%&! cicadas are everywhere?  If so, what's been your experience?  Inhale
>>>> any, get hit in the face/eyes, etc?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/443f1098-9fca-4e85-9227-03037707830cn%40googlegroups.com
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/443f1098-9fca-4e85-9227-03037707830cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>>> services
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>>
>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>>
>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/42f12fab-46d1-45bf-809b-c87da52a7196n%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/42f12fab-46d1-45bf-809b-c87da52a7196n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] 2024 13&17 Cicada plague

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. Those photos reminded me of the annual swarms of mayflies whose
numbers would explode at the beginning of the summer rains in East Africa.
We had batteries of outdoor lights around our somewhat isolated (surrounded
by sq miles of coffee plantation) house to protect against the then-common
armed gang attacks, and these things would swarm around the lights, very
quickly lose their gossamer wings, and fall to the ground in pullulating
masses on the ground. Others would swarm in the air to provide a
magnificent feast for birds.



On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:16 PM George Schick  wrote:

>
> https://www.nbcchicago.com/cicadas-illinois-chicago-2024/photos-the-2024-cicada-emergence-in-chicago-area-and-illinois/3442146/
>
>
> On Wednesday, June 5, 2024 at 3:08:28 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> We want photos!
>>
>> Patrick Moore, cycling in ABQ, NM where the greatest insect threats are
>> clouds of midges very oddly interspaced on the Rio Grande bike path at
>> mouth height.
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:05 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone been biking during the past month or so in areas where these
>>> @$%&! cicadas are everywhere?  If so, what's been your experience?  Inhale
>>> any, get hit in the face/eyes, etc?
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/443f1098-9fca-4e85-9227-03037707830cn%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/443f1098-9fca-4e85-9227-03037707830cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

-- 
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[RBW] Re: Wabi Woolen top quality wool jerseys on sale

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to add that Wabi Woolens is a labor of love by a school teacher
who went ahead and designed, and had manufactured, his own idea of the
ideal cycling jersey after he found others insufficient.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:18 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> PSA from a very satisfied customer
>
> https://wabiwoolens.com
>
> I've used Harth Huffman's Wabi Woolen jerseys for years, and as someone
> who has worn woolen jerseys from many manufacturers, Wabis are really the
> best in quality for material, design, stitching, and the personal response
> from the owner.
>
> I've used one of Harth's original winter jerseys for ~ 10 years, 2 of his
> lighter weight but LS Sports jerseys for ~5 years, and I just bought a ss
> Sports v3 full zip jersey, wearing it for the first time today in 85*+
> weather. No other wool jerseys I've used have the same quality in material,
> design, stitching as Wabis.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

-- 
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[RBW] Wabi Woolen top quality wool jerseys on sale

[Patrick Moore]

PSA from a very satisfied customer

https://wabiwoolens.com

I've used Harth Huffman's Wabi Woolen jerseys for years, and as someone who
has worn woolen jerseys from many manufacturers, Wabis are really the best
in quality for material, design, stitching, and the personal response from
the owner.

I've used one of Harth's original winter jerseys for ~ 10 years, 2 of his
lighter weight but LS Sports jerseys for ~5 years, and I just bought a ss
Sports v3 full zip jersey, wearing it for the first time today in 85*+
weather. No other wool jerseys I've used have the same quality in material,
design, stitching as Wabis.



-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

-- 
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Re: [RBW] 2024 13&17 Cicada plague

[Patrick Moore]

We want photos!

Patrick Moore, cycling in ABQ, NM where the greatest insect threats are
clouds of midges very oddly interspaced on the Rio Grande bike path at
mouth height.

On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 2:05 PM George Schick  wrote:

> Anyone been biking during the past month or so in areas where these @$%&!
> cicadas are everywhere?  If so, what's been your experience?  Inhale any,
> get hit in the face/eyes, etc?
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/443f1098-9fca-4e85-9227-03037707830cn%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/443f1098-9fca-4e85-9227-03037707830cn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

-- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv Rider Recipes

[Patrick Moore]

1. Indian dal on the cheap and easy. Boil red or orange or yellow (brown
rather earthy for my taste) in 3X water until soft.

Cook about 1.5X long grain rice with a bit of cardamom seed.

In small skillet or saucepan heat as much oil as you like to "wet" the
lentil and rice mixture, and  with some and or all of: garlic, coriander,
cumin, red pepper, bay leaf, ginger, asafoetida, ... sizzle for 30 seconds
or so and pour over lentils and rice. Salt to taste.

Augment with full fat yogurt, Indian mango pickle, British sweet chutney.
Or, augment with raita in place of plain fat yogurt: 1 lg cucumber peeled
and grated, 2 c full fat yogurt, big handfull of chopped fresh mint, tsp
ground cumin: mix all and enjoy.

I often add the oil and spices to the cooking lentils with chopped onion
sautted and diced spinach (I use frozen because I don't like to clean and
prep vegetables; and the nutrition is at least as good) for a sort of
lentil stew.

2. New Mexico pinto beans.

2 c dried pinto beans -- soak over night and cook in pressure cooker for ~1
hour including cooldown or for 24 hours at least in crockpot on low.

1 large chopped onion sauteed with garlic, cumin, oregano, red pepper, add
beans and can of chopped or crushed tomatoes and chopped spinach or Kale.

Salt to taste.

Eat with flour tortillas or rice or add potatoes: dice and nuke ~2 med
potatoes until done, add to above.

3. Cheese spaghetti: An adult's mac + cheese. Cook 8 oz dry spaghetti, save
water, met combo of butter and olive oil in skillet, sautee garlic (I get
quart chopped garlic at Costco), add cooked spaghetti and ~1 c pasta water,
bring to boil, add 1/2 c parmesan or romano and 1/2 non-parmesan/romano --
I use Costco 5 lb shredded Mexican mix but anything will do. Add salt and
black pepper to taste.

Recipe also calls for 2 tbsp cream cheese and 2/3 c heavy cream but that's
disgusting; add a bit more cheese instead.


4. Grilled salmon: farmed or fresh fillets. Dribble with plenty of lemon
juice and layer with fresh dill, salt, pepper; wrap in tinfoil; grill.

Then there are tatie scones and champ and the garlic spaghetti (sautee lots
of garlic in olive oil, spread over cooked spaghetti, add salt, red pepper,
black pepper to taste; better have some veg on the side) that my daughter
used to love on Wed and Fri fast day evenings -- but you can dress it up
with Parmesan or Romano for other days, home-made baked fries (daughter got
scrambled eggs and home made *deep fried* fries for school day breakfasts),
home made mac and cheese (damn Annie's!), lazy man's pseudo Thai curry on
rice, Julia Child's very easy french bread (tho' v long waits for rising),
etc etc etc.

Patrick Moore, who will probably make pseudo baked fries*  and eat with
green peas (frozen, nuked, olive oil and salt and pepper) this evening --
Wed, fast day, in ABQ, NM.

*Almost as good as deep fried, a lot cleaner, and a hellofalot better than
frozen fries. Slice potatoes into fingers and roll around in olive oil.
Rinse well and pat dry. Nuke until tender. Line baking sheet with tinfoil.
Liberally add more olive oil. Grill pretty high and close, watch so don't
burn, turn when top brown. I've used red, white, and Idaho potatoes; all
good.

Patrick "and cook oat groats in a crockpot" Moore (who twice held the
office of Chief Cook 40 years ago while living with bunch of guys, and in
one case was voted out of office, but who learned that if you take a whole
frozen but gutted and cleaned chicken, rip off the cling wrapt and foam
packaging, place in cold oven, turn to 350*, and leave for 3 hours, you end
up with moist, tender, and very bland meat).



On Wed, Jun 5, 2024 at 10:17 AM Coco Menk  wrote:

> bumping this thread to see if there are any new contributors this Spring
> :)
>
>
> Thread prompt :
>
> *1) How many of you all have read Grant's Eat Bacon, Don't Jog? Anyone
> subscribe to his food ideas or any other "alternative" diets? Cyclists tend
> to be pretty health-conscious and independent minded, just curious what
> kinds of ideas people are jiving with these days. Vegan? No-carb? 100-mile
> diet? Anything goes? I love hearing about what works for people. I know
> Grant's book has definitely informed my own choices a bit, specifically in
> regards to processed sugar and carbs and simpler forms of exercise. (Not
> looking to sh** on which diet is working or not working for anyone at this
> time! Save that for a different thread)*
>
> *2) I'd love to compile a collection of favorite recipes! What do you make
> for yourselves/your families? What's your favorite sandwich you bring on
> your bike rides? Any bike tour go-to's?*
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts!
>
> Newest oatmeal recipe is a winner:
>
> 1/2 c rolled oats
> 1/2 c walnut milk + 1/2 c water
> 1/4 c raisins
> small handful pumpkin seeds
> 1 tbsp chia seeds
> 2 tbsp pureed pumpkin
> ver

Re: [RBW] Touch-up paint

[Patrick Moore]

gt;>>>>>>>>> Rivendell Pearly Arctic Blue
>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell Roadeo R
>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell Roadeo White
>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell Sage
>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell Sam Hilborne Orange
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the touch-up paint is now shipped in plastic bottles
>>>>>>>>>> instead of glass like I received.
>>>>>>>>>> https://waterfordbikes.com/fv/store/Touch-up-one-step-p579850196
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c4e0d5ad-42b1-4ec8-81a2-123aee64d8a8n%40googlegroups.com
>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c4e0d5ad-42b1-4ec8-81a2-123aee64d8a8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>> .
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[RBW] All Claimed [Free for postage: Winter cycling leg covering (Note: please take all or none.)]

[Patrick Moore]

All claimed.

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[RBW] Free for postage: Winter cycling leg covering (Note: please take all or none.)

[Patrick Moore]

No-name (at least, no name recognized by me) 3/4 Lycra tights, 30" waist
unstretched but elastic with drawcord -- I got to fit my 34" waist -- and
19 1/2" from crotch seam to leg hem, black, as new.

Nashbar 4/4 lycra tights, size L -- I bought these years ago to fit my 34"
waist/32" inseam pants size and never wore them. Drawcord waist, zipped
ankles, black, as new.

Medium lycra leg warmers, maker unknown, age unknown, provenance unknown, I
think I used these once or twice but it has been years if not decades:
lycra, black, zipped ankles, VG.

Again, takem all or takem none, please.

Yours for postage from 87120, you figure it out and be very patient.

Also, before I toss them, 2 rather ghastly mesh black synthetic t shirts
that I bought on the recommendation of a lister for winter underlayer
warmth, never, ever used, and therein lies a tale. When I googled mesh
shirt I got responses from, errp, lowlife websites, which surprised the
heck out of me because in no way do I find these erotic; people are weird.
One LS Big Mesh and one ss small mesh. You are welcome to them; but be
warned and, again, all or nothing, please. As far as I know they will keep
you warm, but I never wore them. And, I retain the right to get tired of
holding on to these shirts and to toss them in the t-can, so hurry.

-- 

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Re: [RBW] Re: My new Wired Magazine article about fat, supple tires

[Patrick Moore]

IME, even very supple skinny tires can be surprisingly smooth if not pumped
too hard; I recall being surprised almost 35 years ago at how smooth 23 mm
Specialized 26X1" Turbos felt compared to overinflated 35 mm Fatboys (I
thought then that the label max pres was the correct pressure). Much later,
Michelin Pro Races at 22 mm actual on narrow rims felt surprisingly
comfortable at 80 f/90r, and today's 28 mm (actual, skinny rims) Elk Passes
feel almost pillow-like at 55/60 except over the damned 8" to 12" expansion
bumps on my access road that I keep meaning to complain to the city about.

Speaking of which: I'm curious about others' preferences for air pressure:
what pressure for what tire -- width, type of casing -- on what surfaces. I
recently started riding my ~49 mm (27 mm IW rims) regular casing Oracle
Ridges at 17 psi, down from the 20 that felt harsh over horse hoof chop and
stutter bumps, and yes, 17 feels smoother over small bumps while not
compromising the road-tire-like handling (on the Matt #1) on pavement --
the ORs handle like the slick Soma Supple Vitesse SLs on pavement, and both
tires make the bike handle as I'd asked Chauncey to make it handle, much
like my Riv Roads.

Current preferred pressures for max bump comfort with pavement cornering
precision:

ORs ~49 mm actual, combined pavement and (sandy) dirt: 17 psi.

Extralight 559X42 mm Naches Passes, mostly pavement, brief firmer dirt:
30/35. I expect I could use as low as 25/30 but this bike sees 30-40 lb
rear loads.

175 gram 559X28 mm Elk Passes: pavement: 55/60, and were it not for
expansion cracks I guess I could drop 5 psi from each.

I used to put 20 psi in the 61 mm paper-thin sidewall Big Ones but now I'd
drop that to under 17; cornering on pavement be damned, they never did
corner crisply, and I expect that at 15-16 with 27 mm IW rims the sidewalls
would remain stable.

I rode the 72 mm actual WTB Rangers as low as 12-13; since these were
ridden almost always on sandy soil, and I'd have used that as the norm
except that these were tubeless tires on ~20-21 mm IW non-tubeless rims, so
I usually kept them at 15.

Patrick Moore, who wishes that the Elk Passes measured closer to the
labeled 32 mm on the admittedly 13 mm IW rims.


On Sun, Jun 2, 2024 at 9:58 AM Jay  wrote:

> I know a lot of roadies, who don't mountain bike, who have never tried a
> tire about 30-32mm.  Before these nice, supple tires became more readily
> available I had mountain biked and had tires for riding that bike on the
> roads (off-season), and then I got into cx bikes I had 32mm (ish) tires,
> and they were all awful (and over-inflated!).  When I went up to 40mm that
> was an improvement.  A supple tire of anywhere north of 32-35, on a bike
> that is not overly stiff, pumped to the right pressure, tubeless if you
> like, is magic.
>
> Nice article!
>

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[RBW] DIY Clem build: segue: cheapest new Clem?

[Patrick Moore]

As someone who stands on the sidelines and reads about others' Clems, and
thinks that he too might one day buy one as a sort of "just ride" beater
about town:

Who has spent the least amount of money on a Clem, in what year, and built
with what parts?

Me, I think of buying a very used and cosmetically thrashed Clem frameset
for cheap and building it somehow either as a fixed gear, or single speed,
or with that otherwise despised and useless S3X hub with about 75 miles on
it (tho' that will probably go first to the extremely tall and short  late
'80s/early '90s KHS mtb frameset I just bought to replace That Libertas).

-- 

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Re: [RBW] Budget Clem L Build

[Patrick Moore]

Please keep us informed of your total outlay. I'm interested in a budget
Clem myself.

On Wed, May 29, 2024 at 5:42 PM Franco Rinaldi  wrote:

> Ciao Everybody,
>
> About to grab a Clem frame and really want to do a highly utilitarian /
> budget build. Wanted to start a thread with tips and suggestions!
>
> Appreciate you guys,
>
> Franco Rinaldi
> c:  646.403.0661
>
> -Pardon any typos, Siri typed this message-
>
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] DIY build or order complete?

[Patrick Moore]

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 6:40 PM Eric Daume  wrote:

> Riv framesets come with a headset installed. That's the hardest job for a
> home mechanic, in my experience.
>

Not if you use a hammer. Seriously, this is how I installed my first ones,
but those were cheap steel and I was lucky. No, don't try it. Now I use a
crude press made from thick threaded rod with big fender washers and nuts;
works fine and I do this only every 10 years or so.

The next hardest job is ordering the correct parts: bottom bracket spindle
> length and crank and (if you're using one) the front derailer all need to
> play together correctly.
>

+1. Buy your parts at a good shop who can tell you what size you need. FDs:
Am I right in thinking that fds from the 5 sp era were more fiddly than
modern (I count 7400s as modern) ones? Or am I just more experienced? I
used to sweat over fds.

Interesting thread. I started tearing down and building bikes in complete
and blissful ignorance on a dirty concrete garage floor with poor light and
minimal tools -- monkey wrench for headsets and bb fixed cup, nail and
hammer and big nut for chains, largely pliers and vise grip for the rest.
If you have good set of general DIY tools you are already light years ahead.

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Re: [RBW] Re: DIY build or order complete?

[Patrick Moore]

I have to agree with Piaw here. It's not hard to build a bike, at least if
it's a Rivendell-type bike, if you start by buying the correct parts from a
knowledgeable shop instead of trying to learn seat-of-pants by yourelf. But
I disagree about racks and fenders: racks are rarely a problem, IME, if you
use rim brakes and even plastic fenders are not that hard to install. I
agree that the first 2 or so pairs of metal fenders will be an education,
and I suggested to a friend that if he use VOs or Honjos he buy a practice
pair along with the"real" pair; kidding but not by too much; but I managed
to install my first pair (Berthouds?) with enough time and they were only a
wee bit warped in the rear, but not noticeable unless you looked closely.
But even metal fenders aren't that hard if you have decent tools and follow
good instructions; Jitensha used to have the best instructions, but this
was a decade or more ago.

As for square taper bb bearing assemblies, they're all cartridge now* and
all you need is for a reputable shop to tell you which length you need for
a given crank.

* Unless someone wants to buy my NIP Suntour Grease Guard, 125 mm -- was
hoping it would work on Matt #1, but nope. But even loose ball bb
assemblies aren't hard as long as you have been told what size to buy; in
all of this it's the variety of lengths and which to choose for which crank
that can be confusing.

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 6:26 PM Mathias Steiner 
wrote:

> Piaw said:
>
> >> Don't worry about assembling the bike. Modern bikes are easy and modern
> parts even easier.
>
> Clearly, you have not added racks and fenders much :)
>
> Especially the latter are usually finicky... been doing this since 1986,
> can't count how many times.
> Sometimes it goes OK, but I got some Honjos to put on right now and lemme
> tell you...
>
> >> (I avoid the square taper BB for that reason)
>
> That I've had no trouble with, cartridge or traditional.
>
> cheers -mathias
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 8:12:12 PM UTC-4 Piaw Na wrote:
>
>> I've been building my own bikes since 2007. It's not nearly as hard as
>> building a wheel. The only issue I can see is the the Sam Hillborne runs
>> cantilever/v-brakes, which have never worked out for me (I only buy
>> sidepull brake bikes to sidestep that problem). I recently built my wife's
>> bike. During the build due to bad lighting in my garage I assembled the
>> microshift bar-end wrong in such a way that the lever throw was half of
>> what it should have been. I scratched my head and rode it to the bike shop,
>> where the mechanic diagnosed the problem while telling me that it's silly
>> to put MTB derailleurs and a 1x drivetrain on my wife's road bike. But they
>> were about to close up shop. I decided to just ride the bike back home,
>> undo the shifter/derailleur cable assembly and redo it (which took all of
>> 15 minutes) and now the bike's perfect and she's setting PRs on her commute.
>>
>> The lesson:
>>
>>- Have good lighting in your workshop. Saves lots of time.
>>- Don't worry about assembling the bike. Modern bikes are easy and
>>modern parts even easier. (I avoid the square taper BB sfor that reason)
>>- The only way to get the parts you want on a bike is to buy them
>>yourself and assemble it yourself. I've had reputable shops like R 
>> cycles
>>refuse to custom build a road bike with a 1x drivetrain. I do it myself 
>> and
>>have no complaints about my mechanic refuse to do entirely reasonable
>>things.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 28, 2024 at 8:32:14 AM UTC-7 Michael wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Ordered a Sam as my first Riv but unsure whether or not I should tackle
>>> building it up myself or just let Riv have at it. I have never built a bike
>>> before but I do have a workshop and am good with tools/mechanically
>>> inclined.
>>>
>>> Are there any specific steps that you would absolutely not recommend a
>>> beginner attempt? By the time i purchase specialty tools, it may have been
>>> wiser to just order it complete?
>>>
>>> Let me know what you guys think, I really don't want to do something
>>> stupid!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] DIY build or order complete?

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, one more very particular rule: If you are completely clueless about
something, try to grasp and accept this reality, and get a professional to
do the job. With my first bike build I had no idea that certain frames were
designed for certain wheel sizes, and I built up a frame that would take no
rim brake known to man. I rode it in hilly narrow roads with speeding
traffic and downtown with a freewheel and no brakes and only Bismarck's
"special providence" kept me alive. ("There's a special providence that
watches over fools, drunkards, children, and the United States of
America.") (I later came to what sense I had and had a coaster brake
installed.)

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 9:47 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Alas, I think that the only way to get personal experience sufficient to
> learn how you really want to build up a bike is lengthy and expensive trial
> and error; at least, that's how I learned to know exactly what I want in a
> frame and in a build.
>
> So my recommendation would be:
>
> 1. If you want quick and convenient and relatively cheap with good
> results: let Rivendell do it.
>
> 2. If you are willing to spend money and time to learn what really works
> and what doesn't, by all means do it yourself.
>
> Apart from that, I have no particular advice except perhaps one thing:
> don't try to save money and hope that an iffy component might work as well
> as a proven but more expensive component. For example, if you know that you
> like Brooks saddles, don't buy a Nashbar saddle hoping that it might just
> work. Believe me, it's cheaper in the not-so-very long run just to buy what
> you already know works for you.
>
> Patrick "building bad bikes since December 1970 (Xmas vacation,
> southern-hemisphere mid-summer, sophomore year)" Moore.
>
> On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 9:32 AM Michael  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Ordered a Sam as my first Riv but unsure whether or not I should tackle
>> building it up myself or just let Riv have at it. I have never built a bike
>> before but I do have a workshop and am good with tools/mechanically
>> inclined.
>>
>> Are there any specific steps that you would absolutely not recommend a
>> beginner attempt? By the time i purchase specialty tools, it may have been
>> wiser to just order it complete?
>>
>> Let me know what you guys think, I really don't want to do something
>> stupid!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/25e3bad5-587a-4d8f-bd29-8ca1f70295aen%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/25e3bad5-587a-4d8f-bd29-8ca1f70295aen%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

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Re: [RBW] DIY build or order complete?

[Patrick Moore]

Alas, I think that the only way to get personal experience sufficient to
learn how you really want to build up a bike is lengthy and expensive trial
and error; at least, that's how I learned to know exactly what I want in a
frame and in a build.

So my recommendation would be:

1. If you want quick and convenient and relatively cheap with good results:
let Rivendell do it.

2. If you are willing to spend money and time to learn what really works
and what doesn't, by all means do it yourself.

Apart from that, I have no particular advice except perhaps one thing:
don't try to save money and hope that an iffy component might work as well
as a proven but more expensive component. For example, if you know that you
like Brooks saddles, don't buy a Nashbar saddle hoping that it might just
work. Believe me, it's cheaper in the not-so-very long run just to buy what
you already know works for you.

Patrick "building bad bikes since December 1970 (Xmas vacation,
southern-hemisphere mid-summer, sophomore year)" Moore.

On Tue, May 28, 2024 at 9:32 AM Michael  wrote:

> Hi all,
> Ordered a Sam as my first Riv but unsure whether or not I should tackle
> building it up myself or just let Riv have at it. I have never built a bike
> before but I do have a workshop and am good with tools/mechanically
> inclined.
>
> Are there any specific steps that you would absolutely not recommend a
> beginner attempt? By the time i purchase specialty tools, it may have been
> wiser to just order it complete?
>
> Let me know what you guys think, I really don't want to do something
> stupid!
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> .
>


-- 

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Re: How much can you vary wheel diameter and tire width without degrading handling?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all. I suppose the best thing to do is to try some good 42 mm tires
-- I agree that 42 mm is a good width for pavement with firmer dirt or
gravel, at least in my 559 size.

OTOH, since the Somas roll so well and handle very nicely ?

After Jay mentioned his Fargo, I remembered that I'd done the same thing
with mine, 10-14 years ago. The "main" wheelset had 60 mm Big Apples but I
got a "road" wheelset with ~33-4 mm Kojaks. I didn't use this set as much
as the other one and have only fuzzy memories of it, but those memories,
such as they are, don't include much degraded handling, unlike the horrible
handling of 22s on my NORBA-era conversions in place of 50s.

Segueing: just the other day found that I can reduce air pressure in the
~49 mm Oracle Ridge regular casings to 16-17 psi to reduce jarring
noticeably over small bumps compared to the 20 psi I'd defined as a
personal minimum for 50s. Yes, a noticeable improvement in cushion.
Bu, *mirabile
dictu*, cornering and rolling on pavement seem no different. I'm 175 kitted
out and the bike is about 33 lb ready to ride with luggage but no load.

I expect that the EL Oracles might require a lb or 2 more; I used to ride
my 60 mm ultralight/paperthin Big Ones at 18. I must try the similarly
paper thin Somas at 16 and see if they too need a psi or 2 more.

This might well be a bike tire pressure race to the bottom; we'll see...

I used Jim's site to get wheel diameters for the tires that I haven't
measured directly, but I just now went back and checked trail and flop.
50s: 64/19, 42s: 61/18. I used to ride the bike with 60s: 67/20. My problem
is that I can't yet translate these numbers into riding experience, as I
can say for gear inches. But it does show that there is no more difference
between 50 -- empirical handling sweet spot -- and 42s than between 60s and
50s; again, not quite sure what to make of that in terms of person
experiences of bike handling. Thus, others' experiences will be usefully
educational.

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[RBW] How much can you vary wheel diameter and tire width without degrading handling?

[Patrick Moore]

Frames are designed to handle best with wheels of a certain diameter with
tires of a certain width, but sometimes you can vary tire size and get away
with it without making the bike handle strangely  or risking pedal strike.

Instance: 25 years ago I built up several nice pre-susp mtbs with 3 wheels,
2" knobbies, ~26" in diameter, 32-5 mm slicks, ~25" in diameter, for
commuting, and gofast wheels with 26X1" = 22-23 mm in real world width
Specialized Turbos (nice tires), 24", for unladed weekend pavement riding.
So, diameters from 26" to 24". A bit later I had 2 wheelsets for my 1992
XO-1, 24" diameter Turbos and 25" diameter Tioga City Slickers. The
skinnies made the bike a bit quicker to turn.

With the converted mtbs, the bikes handled very nicely with 2" tires, quite
nicely with ~32s, and horribly with 22 mm actual Turbos -- twitchy in
straight line, hesitant and inconsistent in turns.

That was the long windup to this question: for a frame designed for "up to
622X 60s and 584 X 80s"(+ fenders) -- both about 750 mm in diameter, and,
#2, one that in fact handles very nicely with 622 X 50s --  ~730 mm -- how
skinny can one go before compromising handling?

I have no interest in installing 23s, but I think of installing extralight
42s, 714 mm diameter, so a 3/4' or 19 mm drop in real world bb height.

Any thoughts?

Background: I got a second wheelset for the Matthews #1 "road bike for
dirt" for 50 mm* RH Oracle Ridge tires. I meant ot have  this knobby
wheelset for our sandy dirt and leave the original, otherwise identical,
wheelset with the 50 mm Soma Supple Vitesse SLs for pavement riding, this
after I discovered that the Somas do poorly on sandy surfaces.

It turns out that the Oracles roll and handle closely enough to the Somas
that I rather think it's redundant to have a road wheelset with 50 mm
tires, even though these Somas at 360 grams roll exceptionally well and
make this bike handle much like my Riv Roads.

So I wonder about 42s -- no narrower, unless you present good evidence for
narrower -- for lighter weight and perhaps handline a wee bit "crisper."

* ~Actual widths for both OR and SSVSL.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Style on the bike

[Patrick Moore]

Robert and everyone, I apologize; Robert is right, these are not the model
I know and love.

Apparently, REI no longer carries these; too bad. If anyone knows of
similar pants available from another source, I would be interested in
hearing about them.

https://www.rei.com/product/158172/rei-co-op-sahara-roll-up-cargo-pants-mens

REI Co-op   <https://www.rei.com/b/rei-co-op>Sahara Roll-Up Cargo Pants -
Men's
3.4128  Reviews View the 128 reviews with an average rating of 3.4 out of 5
stars
<https://www.rei.com/product/158172/rei-co-op-sahara-roll-up-cargo-pants-mens#>

*This product is not available.*

On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 10:55 AM  wrote:

> I have a couple pairs of those Sahara pants as well and I love them.
> These look like they got rid of the roll up legs with snaps and replaced
> them with zip off legs? I can’t find the roll up leg version on their site.
>
> Robert Tilley
> San Diego, CA
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 27, 2024, at 7:03 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> I'll recommend the REI "Sahara" cargo pants for occasions when you want to
> ride a bike to an event where shorts are inappropriate. They're on sale
> now, too:
> https://www.rei.com/product/202030/rei-co-op-sahara-convertible-pants-mens?CAWELAID=120217890013538185_mmc=PLA_Bing%7C2170001700551_2020300028%7C92700067489897493%7CPB%7C7170081306883=ds
>
> Very light but densely woven and -- after several years of regular
> warm-weather Sunday use -- quite durable, decent colors (tho' only earth
> tones), well sewn with intelligently designed pockets.*
>
> I used to use light nylon pants with zip-off legs, but the hassle of
> getting the legs off over cycling shoes (or removing the shoes to remove
> the unzipped legs, then putting them on again) was too much. The REI pants
> let you roll the legs to either knickers height or to shorts height.
>
> My brother just gave one of his pairs of same, but oddly a bit too short
> -- he's 4" taller than I; he likes high water pants, I guess -- that I
> might have converted into knickers. If I do that, can anyone recommend a
> nice dark tan, khaki, light brown, or olive green cotton knee sock, with
> source?
>
> As to style: Winter is easy: dark or neutrally colored cycling pants --
> Endura, Osloh* for example -- or wool knickers with wool pullover + knee
> socks under Ibex wool vest and/or "light navy" cycling wind shell with pit
> zips. Summer: I used to ride in lycra and change in the bathroom, but the
> REI rollups paired with nice wicking ss bush shirts in heather sky blue or
> more-or-less tattersall that are trim but not tight (I like my civilian
> shirts baggy) works very well. These bush shirts, found on sale from Kohl's
> some years ago (I'd just written a resume for a Kohl's marketing exec) have
> the usual stink problem of synthetic fabrics but are good for a
> several-hour first wearing and, as I discovered last summer, if you swish
> such synthetics -- works for plastic jerseys too -- in a gallon or so of
> cold water when you get home and hang to drip dry you can wear them as long
> as you can wool.
>
> As to wool, I have 2 remaining of a collection of 4-5 nice retro wool med
> weight ss jerseys; these are good up to the low 90s in low humidity but
> hotter and I accept synthetics. Light wool, including the Riv lightweight
> merino Woolywarms, IME aren't nearly as durable -- snags and moth holes. I
> gave my 2 pr away.
>
> --
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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Re: [RBW] Re: Big Joe goes to Snowdonia

[Patrick Moore]

Lovely photos; thanks for sharing them.

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Re: [RBW] Silver Hub sound

[Patrick Moore]

The header immediately made me think of "Music With Her Silver Sound;"
https://www.discogs.com/master/1425787-English-Consort-Of-Viols-Martyn-Hill-Anthony-Rooley-Music-With-Her-Silver-Sound-Works-By-Bull-Byrd-C

The founder of the ensemble was Marco Pallis, author of Peaks and Lamas.
Remarkable man: https://www.discogs.com/artist/3344162-Marco-Pallis

Maybe Rivendell could tune the sound of their hubs to the music of John
Dowland.

On Mon, May 27, 2024 at 6:03 AM Brian Turner  wrote:

> I can’t seem to find the link, but a few years ago, Will posted a video of
> the sound of a Silver hub.
>
> I’d say the description of being slightly louder than a Deore XT hub is
> accurate. But, nowhere near as loud as a White hub, that’s for sure.
>
> - Brian
> Lexington KY
>
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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---

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Re: [RBW] Re: Style on the bike

[Patrick Moore]

I'll recommend the REI "Sahara" cargo pants for occasions when you want to
ride a bike to an event where shorts are inappropriate. They're on sale
now, too:
https://www.rei.com/product/202030/rei-co-op-sahara-convertible-pants-mens?CAWELAID=120217890013538185_mmc=PLA_Bing%7C2170001700551_2020300028%7C92700067489897493%7CPB%7C7170081306883=ds

Very light but densely woven and -- after several years of regular
warm-weather Sunday use -- quite durable, decent colors (tho' only earth
tones), well sewn with intelligently designed pockets.*

I used to use light nylon pants with zip-off legs, but the hassle of
getting the legs off over cycling shoes (or removing the shoes to remove
the unzipped legs, then putting them on again) was too much. The REI pants
let you roll the legs to either knickers height or to shorts height.

My brother just gave one of his pairs of same, but oddly a bit too short --
he's 4" taller than I; he likes high water pants, I guess -- that I might
have converted into knickers. If I do that, can anyone recommend a nice
dark tan, khaki, light brown, or olive green cotton knee sock, with source?

As to style: Winter is easy: dark or neutrally colored cycling pants --
Endura, Osloh* for example -- or wool knickers with wool pullover + knee
socks under Ibex wool vest and/or "light navy" cycling wind shell with pit
zips. Summer: I used to ride in lycra and change in the bathroom, but the
REI rollups paired with nice wicking ss bush shirts in heather sky blue or
more-or-less tattersall that are trim but not tight (I like my civilian
shirts baggy) works very well. These bush shirts, found on sale from Kohl's
some years ago (I'd just written a resume for a Kohl's marketing exec) have
the usual stink problem of synthetic fabrics but are good for a
several-hour first wearing and, as I discovered last summer, if you swish
such synthetics -- works for plastic jerseys too -- in a gallon or so of
cold water when you get home and hang to drip dry you can wear them as long
as you can wool.

As to wool, I have 2 remaining of a collection of 4-5 nice retro wool med
weight ss jerseys; these are good up to the low 90s in low humidity but
hotter and I accept synthetics. Light wool, including the Riv lightweight
merino Woolywarms, IME aren't nearly as durable -- snags and moth holes. I
gave my 2 pr away.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Bike Day: My Little Platy

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for blue Loctite on shift lever threads -- it works. Me, I am less
careful than Armand and simple put a big dollop on the threads, screw it
all together, adjust tension, and let it dry -- this method hasn't failed
yet over many years.

On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 10:41 AM Armand Kizirian 
wrote:

> Leah,
>
> Remove the "thumb screw" from the shifters. Place some blue threadlocker
> on the threads, let it dry, and do another coating as well. They won't hold
> their setting and eventually unscrew from use, creating ghost shifts,
> particularly at the worst possible time (out of the saddle sprints, etc.).
> A few layers of threadlocker help them hold their position without issue.
>
> If you happen to powdercoat things in the future, check out the color
> "prismatic universe". I powdercoated my mtb that color with a high gloss
> clear coat and it is insane in the sun. I'll have to send some pics when
> it's all together. Doing some light oil slick parts too as a theme.
>
> On Sunday, May 26, 2024 at 5:55:44 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:
>
>> I’ve had so much fun putting the first 50 miles on my new bike. I love
>> looking at it and wish I could see it when I’m riding it. The spokes do
>> gleam in the sun as the wheels rotate, which thrills me. I don’t know
>> anything, but it feels to me like my 700c wheels are faster than these
>> 650b. I am not slow on them, but also I would never use this bike for a
>> club ride if my other Platy was in the shop. Both bikes have Velocity
>> Quills, set up tubeless, but the Racing Platy has 42mm Ultradynamicos and
>> the My Little Platy has 48 mm Gravel Kings. Maybe these things are the real
>> differences, I don’t know.
>>
>> The bike is more compact and manageable but does not feel too small. I’m
>> so grateful for my 81 cm PBH, which allows me the flexibility to ride both
>> frame sizes. I have pretty heavy racks on the My Little Platy and yet the
>> bike doesn’t feel THAT heavy. I bet it would feel light as a feather if I
>> didn’t have fenders, racks, dyno and bags all over it.
>>
>> The Silver shifters are taking some getting used to. One wingnut handle
>> flops and the other stays in place. The shifting was like butter, but when
>> I tightened the nut (hoping to stop the handle flapping) it made the lever
>> difficult to move. So, I loosened it again and I’m having some ghost
>> shifting. On my red bike, I have Microshift and I never miss a gear. I can
>> hit it perfectly, every darn time. Hoping I get the hang of these shifters,
>> because they come highly lauded.
>>
>> The front end feels a bit shaky when I stand and pedal, another thing I
>> don’t understand. These are Albatross bars and I have Billies on the
>> others. Also, this bike has a front rack. Maybe that’s why.
>>
>> At any rate, I have a lot to think about, fine tune and to learn. And I’m
>> having such fun in the process.
>> Leah
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2024, at 7:44 PM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
>>
>> So deep. I couldn’t stand putting a solid color on the spacer when I saw
>> so many oil slick option in 1 1/4 inch. Sure enough, the BMXers came
>> through with the 1 in for me.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 24, 2024, at 11:27 AM, Wesley  wrote:
>>
>> You know you're in deep when you're sourcing BMX parts to get the look
>> right. It's funny how the bike world is almost completely separated between
>> BMX and all other bikes - the brands, the language, and the parts standards
>> apparently have almost no contact across the divide.
>> -Wes
>> On Thursday, May 23, 2024 at 3:51:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> IMO this ties with the other customized Platypus featured here recently
>>> for "nicest-looking Platypus in list history," and it probably wins the
>>> award for "most attention paid to aesthetics" in list history. Note: I
>>> think very many of the Rivs posted are lovely to look at.
>>>
>>> Me, as with Mitch, "I am a guy." I am fully OC about my bikes for parts
>>> and builds and design (I remember most of the parts from my first 1970 full
>>> build), but not aesthetics, and it's interesting to see how others'
>>> passions turn out.
>>>
>>> Cerakoting is new to me; had to Google it. I see it differs from
>>> anodizing, but, how exactly? Too bad webmeisters are generally better fancy
>>> web page design than conveying information -- this for global corporate
>>> websites as well as bike websites; the latter on the whole do better. I
>>> gather that 

Re: [RBW] Re: Style on the bike

[Patrick Moore]

This is starting to remind me of the early '90s.

Patrick Moore, who once built a gofast '92 XO-1 with bright purple anodized
Sun M14A "semi-aero" rims (and later ruined them with Easy Off -- left them
at the curb for the recycling truck).

On Sun, May 26, 2024 at 6:41 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Time to revive this thread. Because…well, when you have the perfect shoes
> for your bike, you gotta let people know.
>
>
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 10:28:46 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> Excellent kit and you look amazing. I love the bike style posts and am so
>> tickled every time I get one!
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 19, 2023, at 9:29 PM, Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>> Today's cool but not too cold ride was with Randi Jo wool cap, wool
>> button up from Anian, and the buckskin gloves that Ron & Arya brand and
>> resell - which, for the record, are awesome! All of this kit is excellent -
>> warm and pretty water resistant as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, 5 November 2023 at 12:48:30 UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I'll try to remember to take a photo of the knickers (not of me) when
>>> it's next cold enough to wear them. They are very, very comfortable and
>>> nice looking.
>>>
>>> Balmy upper 60s on today's ride home wearing my new (to me) bright green
>>> Cheviot cap while riding a forest green Matthews.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 10:20 AM RichS  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Patrick,
>>>>
>>>> +1 on your church going cycling attire. The description is vivid enough
>>>> so I can clearly see it. Your warm weather sartorial choices are impressive
>>>> as well.
>>>> I need to up my game and enhance my decade old Rivendell knickers.
>>>> Thanks for the inspiration:-)
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Rich in ATL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, November 3, 2023 at 11:28:12 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I broke out my oh, so elegant! grey flannel cycling knickers* last
>>>>> Sunday for the ride to church, matched with Rick's (Reisemberg) 
>>>>> medium-dark
>>>>> grey knee socks and a charcoal grey merino mock turtleneck pullover under 
>>>>> a
>>>>> navy Wabi Woolen LS jersey cunningly made into a light cycling jacket with
>>>>> the (very professional) addition of a full-length zipper. Shoes should 
>>>>> have
>>>>> been Dromartis, but I use plain black canvas Specialized SPD shoes because
>>>>> they have a wide toe box and a flat bottom, better for standing during 2+
>>>>> hour liturgies. Topped off with ironically-retro, deliberately jarring
>>>>> green-and-red Legnano cycling cap; not quite cold enough for ear flaps.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only 1 person did a double take at the knickers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Must take a fashion shot.
>>>>>
>>>>> But temps have risen almost 20* this week, so it looks like I'll be
>>>>> back to the light nylon REI roll-up-legs-and-snap-in-place pants and 
>>>>> cotton
>>>>> collared shirt this Sunday.
>>>>>
>>>>> Much more casually, this afternoon, temp about 72* with moderate wind,
>>>>> wore a blue and white wool ss jersey with Italian lycra arm warmers over
>>>>> black Rapha Randonee shorts. Black ankle socks with catchy "Route 66"
>>>>> graphic and late 1980s/1990s Shimano 3-strap SPD shoes and custom cycling
>>>>> cap from Little Packet, no longer in business.
>>>>>
>>>>> * Very tastefully converted from a very nice pair of Nordstrom wool
>>>>> dress flannels with nylon wind panels on inside front and replaceable
>>>>> matched-color wear panel on seat and crotch.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say: I've spent considerable bucks on very many supposedly
>>>>> purpose-designed riding pants, knickers and long pants, and I have never
>>>>> had a pair of cycling pants that fit as well and are so well adapted to
>>>>> pedaling as converted dress pants, with the high waist and roomy -- not
>>>>> baggy; not 1950s -- cut. They come up high enough in back that you don't
>>>>> have that continual exposed skin anxiety, and they just feel much more
>>>>> comfor

Re: [RBW] Re: Are bikes becoming too complicated?

[Patrick Moore]

SaaS -- Shifting-as-a-Service, and "your personal power assistant." I love
it.

On Fri, May 24, 2024 at 10:41 AM Robert Calton  wrote:

> To add an amusing, cynical thought: can you imagine Shifting-as-a-Service?
> New fully integrated wireless 5G groupsets charge you $10/month for 1,000
> shifts and then you're stuck with a fixie. Or pony up $40/month for
> unlimited shifts and get your shifting analytics pushed to the latest Shimano
> E-Tube app .

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne Pictures Thread

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Andrew.

On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 5:10 PM Andrew Joseph 
wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> Thank you!
>
> Those little contraptions are actually called “Cable Cherries.”  They are
> easily installed and tightened via a 1.5 mm hex.  They are quite fun, come
> in some great colors and are available from Forager Cycles, and Paul, among
> others.  See below for the description from Forager…
>
> “The Cable Cherries are durable, reusable cable ends with a huge grip - no
> more crimps wiggling off leaving a frayed, pokey end! The easy-to-grab
> sphere shape makes adjusting cable tension or swapping components simple.
> Tape the included 1.5mm hex key to your tire lever, and you’re set!
>
> Easily grab the sphere to snug up your cable tension. Take them on and off
> as much as you need with the included 1.5mm hex key & set screw. The Cable
> Cherries are CNC machined in Oakland, CA on the same equipment that makes
> surgical pins & screws. Get 'em tight, and have 'em for life.”
> The saddle is a Berthoud Galibier.  A bit more narrow (and Ti rails) than
> their normal offerings.
>
> Hope this is helpful.
>
> Best,
>
> Drew
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 23, 2024, at 6:01 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> Andrew: nice. Pray, what is the little orange globular cable end -- I
> guess I really mean, how is it designed and how does it clamp to the cable
> -- and where do you get them?
>
> And, what is the saddle? Brooks Swift? Or trimmed Pro? Or another marque?
>
> Patrick Moore, ruthlessly bottom-trimming and wondering what to do with
> the very, very nice -- thick leather! -- as-new B17N that he got recently
> for ~$47 + shipping.
>
>
> On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 4:50 PM Andrew Joseph 
> wrote:
>
>> Better photos…
>>
>> 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New Bike Day: My Little Platy

[Patrick Moore]

IMO this ties with the other customized Platypus featured here recently for
"nicest-looking Platypus in list history," and it probably wins the award
for "most attention paid to aesthetics" in list history. Note: I think very
many of the Rivs posted are lovely to look at.

Me, as with Mitch, "I am a guy." I am fully OC about my bikes for parts and
builds and design (I remember most of the parts from my first 1970 full
build), but not aesthetics, and it's interesting to see how others'
passions turn out.

Cerakoting is new to me; had to Google it. I see it differs from anodizing,
but, how exactly? Too bad webmeisters are generally better fancy web page
design than conveying information -- this for global corporate websites as
well as bike websites; the latter on the whole do better. I gather that
anodizing is colored (or not) oxidizing while cerakoting is a --- coating.

One of the early links that DDG turned up said: "Anodized versus Cerakote:
Which is better for your AR15?"




On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 9:56 AM Armand Kizirian 
wrote:

> Looks super fun. Good to know Paul can anodize parts like that! Also
> interested to hear how the different size rides for you. Enjoy!
>

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Re: [RBW] Gearing question -

[Patrick Moore]

Even quads! -- very briefly; Mountain Tamer Quad. Too finicky, IME.

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 2:58 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... , but I've used singles, doubles, and triples on various 26" wheel
> bikes.)
>

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Re: [RBW] Gearing question -

[Patrick Moore]

If your current cogset is a freewheel it probably has no more than 7 cogs
which limits the number of different gears.

How many gears you need depends on your own preferences: how high a high --
you've said you want a higher one and yes, 70" is pretty low; how low a low
-- with the 24/34 I assume you want to keep a similar low gear of <20"; and
how close you want the gaps between gears.

The possibilities also depend on how often you shift between chainrings and
how much you like quick, smooth shifts.

The easiest option would be to swap the 38 for a 46 which would give a
still pretty low 85" gear, assuming a more or less 26" tall wheel. The gap
between this and the 24 is pretty big but it has been done, and it would be
more doable if you don't use the 24 very much.

The next option is a triple with 46/36/24 which is pretty typical 7 speed
triple chainring, tho' still on the low side with 26" wheels. Or -- my
preference were I to use a triple with 5, 6, or 7 sp fw -- would be
something like a 46/42/24 halfstep plus granny for closer ratios with
higher top and same low.

But my overall preference would be to go whole hog and swap the hub for a
modern cassette hub with 10 or 11 gears; yes, you'd probably have to spread
the rear but it's not hard to spread a 126 mm OL rear to 130; in fact, I've
often used 130 hubs in 126 steel frames, tho' it's a pain. With 3 or 4 more
cogs you can (1) mix and match much more easily, (2) get a much higher top
gear with the same 38 t ring, (3) get a similar or even lower low, and (4)
get closer intermediate gears, *and* (5) do this without adding another
chainring.

I personally like "1X + granny" using 10 sp cassettes (might one day try
11) with something like a (note: this is for 700C wheels with fat tires, so
about 29" tall, 3" taller than 559 wheels) 44/28 and a 14-28 10 sp (easy to
customize cogs with a freehub) giving a high of ~90" and a low about 29",
but with very close intermediate gears. Abandon 1-cog differences in the
cruising gears and you can get just about any reasonable high and
reasonable low with this sort of setup.

Patrick Moore, who has owned umpteen gadzillion 26" wheel road,
all-rounder, and mountain bikes each with customized gearing. (My 2 current
26-ers are road bikes -- 29" for off road -- one fixed or with 2-speed IGH
fixed hubs, 76" and either 68", 66", or 57" depending on hub) and the other
with 3 speed fixed: 72", 65", 54" or 3 speed fw: 75", 65", 56"; 24.5" 559
 X 28mm  and 25.6" 559 X 42 mm wheels respectively, but I've used singles,
doubles, and triples on various 26" wheel bikes.)

On Sun, May 19, 2024 at 9:20 AM Stephen Durfee  wrote:

> Another list member recently asked a question "Which Front Derailleur
> option is best for a 38/24 front, 11-36 rear". At the time, I commented
> that my AR has a 38/24 front, that I often spin out on level ground and can
> only coast down hills, and that I have been planning to remove the chain
> guard and swap in a 46T front ring, to turn my double into a triple. But
> then I got to wondering, would I actually be better off making a switch in
> the back...
>
> My 26" rear wheel is built around a Bullseye hub, with a 14-34 freewheel.
> The front wheel is brand new - a Rich-built dynamo with a Shimano hub.
>
> My questionwould I be better off making a change in the front, going
> with a triple and the current rear wheel? Or, should I upgrade to a new
> rear wheel, with a hub cassette at 11-36? Here is my stab at basic math,
> which may or may not provide useful information
> My current "big gear"  38÷14 = 2.71
> with the added triple,   46÷14 = 3.28
> with a new cassette and existing chainrings 38 ÷ 11= 3.45
>
> I understand, of course, a new rear wheel would be a more expensive
> solution. My existing FD is a Shimano 105. I think it could handle the
> triple, but I haven't yet put it to the test.   Are there other factors to
> consider?
>
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>


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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Good to have an opinion of Schwalbe 14A butyls versus at least 1 brand of
TPU tubes; perhaps I'm well enough off with the Schwalbe butyl extralights
which, besides, do very well amongst goatheads with OS regular forumla.

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 9:38 AM Ted Durant  wrote:

> On May 16, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Harry Travis  wrote:
>
> "I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes.
> Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same
> buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the
> bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden
> hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "
>
> Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm
> tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube
> compared to a 30z
>
>
> I also have some Foss tubes that I have used in 584-42 and 584-48 Rene
> Herse ultralight tires, and I have used Scwhalbe #13 (standard) and #14A
> (extra light) tubes in those same tires. None of them make the tires feel
> like garden hoses, IMO. I never had to patch a Foss tube, but I haven’t put
> huge miles on them. I had what I think is more than a normal amount flats
> with the extra light butyl tubes, but I wouldn’t say that’s a certainty
> because wet roads and old tires are the primary risk factors and I can’t
> say I’ve controlled for that.
>
> I would rank order the tubes as you’d expect for “ride feel” -
> RH TPU
> Schwalbe extra light
> Foss
> Schwalbe standard
>
> I don’t think there’s much difference in feel between Foss and Schwalbe
> standard tubes, and the difference between RH TPU and Schwalbe extra light
> is pretty small.
>
> All just one man’s opinion.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like to try latex tubes (hell, I'd like to try TPUs if they had a
better reputation) but latex tubes aren't made in 559" wheel sizes.

Has anyone tried and had success with installing appropriately wide latex
tubes in smaller diameter wheels by folding the tube to fit? Results?

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Rivendell Platypus - A Forever Bike Build

[Patrick Moore]

gt;>>>> Hunter cycles Nugz for extra cable adjustment. Rene herse and nitto cable
>>>>> hangars. Yokozuna reaction compressionless housing. All capped off with
>>>>> Forager cycles cable cherries. Kool stop brake pads with the grey e-bike
>>>>> pad compound. This was my final hurrah to test the ultimate canti-lever
>>>>> brake setup and deem its worthiness as a brake. It has not passed by test.
>>>>> Riv recommends v-brakes for several valid reasons.
>>>>>
>>>>> Custom wheelset featuring White Industries MI5 hubs laced to Velocity
>>>>> Quill rims with Sapim spokes and brass nipples, 32h front, 36h rear, all
>>>>> polished. Rene Herse Tires, 48mm Hatcher Pass and Oracle Ridge. I will
>>>>> likely keep an endurance casing Oracle ridge as a final tire choice, setup
>>>>> tubeless with Ultradynamico brass tubeless valves. I like riding fast,
>>>>> especially on dirt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Drivetrain features an ultra rare 110/73bcd Middleburn lightweight
>>>>> road triple with 42/28t gearing and Rivendell chain guard and brass
>>>>> self-extractors. Aluminum Sugino 28t chainring and aluminum chainring
>>>>> hardware for weight reduction. NOS Dura-Ace 7700 sealed cartridge Bottom
>>>>> bracket. Pedals are MKS Pretzel with shorter 4-5mm length brass set screws
>>>>> to replace the 6mm long aggressive steel pins. Ultegra PD-ES600 SPD pedals
>>>>> for longer rides when I want to be clipped in. Deore XT 9-speed 11-34
>>>>> cassette, with NOS Dura Ace 7700 mid-cage rear derailleur (wolftooth
>>>>> roadlink to clear the 34t), Dura Ace 7800 double front derailleur. KMC
>>>>> 10-speed X10SL with the gold treatment, because, gold! This all shifts
>>>>> *wonderfully.*
>>>>>
>>>>> Accessories include Nitto F32 front rack with Tanaka stainless steel
>>>>> basket held by Voile mini straps, Nitto 32r rear rack with cygolite rear
>>>>> light mount. Front rack features upcycled 28t chainring for my cygolite
>>>>> go-pro mount (blue lug style) and M6 brass set screws to fill the unused
>>>>> braze-ons. Blue Lug yellow X-Strap bungee cords front and rear, with the 
>>>>> x2
>>>>> rainbow Rivendell straps laced through the basket to handle any odd things
>>>>> to carry on the fly. Beautiful Nitto R bottle cage on top, with ultra rare
>>>>> matching Nitto BG-L 1-liter bottle cage on the bottom. Greenfield 
>>>>> kickstand
>>>>> wrapped with newbaums purple. Purple Blue Lug Koma lights front and rear 
>>>>> at
>>>>> the drop-outs for when I forget to bring my nicer lights. Newbaums wrap on
>>>>> top tube for convenient handle grip when carrying up/down stairs to the
>>>>> train. Blue lug style newbaums chainstay guard. Hemp twine features
>>>>> everywhere. Lastly, any unused braze-ons are populated with M5 brass set
>>>>> screws, including the backside of the utilized hourglass mounts 
>>>>>
>>>>> Security includes hexlox axles, with the same keyed inserts for the
>>>>> seatpost clamp, stem, and saddle. GPS sticker for theft deterrent. Hidden
>>>>> air tag. Serial number registered in two bike indexes. I purchased a
>>>>> Kryptonite mini New York u-lock off ebay ($60 new!). It is absurd and
>>>>> confidence inspiring. Makes my evolution mini u-lock look like a joke.
>>>>>
>>>>> One bit I forgot to mention. The inner position of the lower rear
>>>>> right rack mount are positioned perfectly for a chain holder, as 80's
>>>>> touring bikes used to have. An Acetal bushing with delrin washers result 
>>>>> in
>>>>> not just a chain holder, but the ability to backpedal and lube the chain
>>>>> wit the wheel off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for reading!
>>>>> Armand
>>>>> Santa Monica, CA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Sheesh; sorry for the bad experiences and, again -- don't hate me for this
-- thanks for being the bad-news guinea pig.

Let us know if you ever rustle up Rene Herse customer service for refunds
or replacements.

I use Schwalbe extra light butyls with Orange Seal regular formula in road
tires (30 to 60 psi, 559 X 42 and 559 X 28, slightly lower psi in front
than rear) and I am very happy to report that this works well. I guess I'll
continue to be happy with this arrangement for a while longer.

Everybody: If you experiment with TPUs, please keep the list informed.
Thanks.

Patrick Moore, who would love to swap 70 gram / 100 gram butyls for 35
gram, faster-rolling TPUs with compatible sealant proven against goatheads,
in ABQ, NM.

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:19 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> Another update. Found my Riv Road (622x32) had an almost flat front tire
> this afternoon. Pulled the tube and found no holes but a very slow leak
> from the valve stem. Using my fingers to grip the stem, I was able to back
> off the core then re-tighten it. The leak was worse. So, I gripped the
> valve with pliers and again re-tightened the core. As I worried would
> happen, when I went to reinflate the tube to check for a leak, the tube had
> broken at the base of the stem. That tire is now inflated by old reliable
> Schwalbe no 16. Out of the six tubes I bought in that size, I'm down to
> three usable. I like having removable/replaceable cores, but they're kind
> of silly on tubes that have such a fragile connection to the valve.
>
> The repair I made yesterday (Waterford ST-22, 622x32, rear wheel) didn't
> work. I pulled the tube again and checked for leaks in water, which I
> should have done yesterday. I'm not sure whether what I thought was a hole
> actually was, but I found a tiny hole in the same place relative to the
> valve stem, the other way around. The hole was so tiny that it was not at
> all visible - only could find it from the bubbles that came out of it under
> water. So, that one is patched and reinstalled.
>
> I've used Schwalbe superlight tubes on my Breadwinner (584x48) and had
> mostly good luck with them, though I did get a flat on that bike's maiden
> voyage. That was a special treat because it was my first experience with
> rims designed for going tubeless and I didn't know how hard it would be to
> get the beads off the shelves (and back on again). I'm going to experiment
> with superlight tubes on my Riv Road, where I think I'll benefit from them.
> Not sure I'll use them elsewhere.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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>


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Re: [RBW] Riv-rafting

[Patrick Moore]

Tom Lutz seems to have accommodated himself and his Brompton to the mass of
his Fliptail. I'd guess that with the wheels (or is it a minimalist
trailer?) and flat terrain that even a weighty boat is less of a problem
than, say, the inflatable 2-person kayaks that my next door neighbors have
(fun fact: he was a brazer for Serrotta back when Serrotta did lugged steel
bikes) which take a while to deflate, dry, and roll up.

John: what do you think: is your boat easier to manipulate between bike
packing and floating and back again than this Fliptail with tailer?

I've no dog in this fight*; I think any bike-cum-boat travel incident looks
like great fun and ought to be illustrated on this list with a great number
of photos.


[*Ill disciplined imagination: recall the Economist cover with drawing of
Ozarks or Appalachian front porch during Clinton I vs Lewinsky, with
slogan: "He's a hard dog to keep on the porch." Nothing beats Southern
syntax.]



On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:07 PM Wesley  wrote:

> That’s a fliptail: https://duckworks.com/fliptail-7-plans-pdf/
>
> I built its ancestor the origami from the same designer about six years
> ago to be a compact tender for the boat we were living aboard. It turned
> out very heavy so we never used it, preferring our inflatable kayaks.
>
> The fliptail is probably a bit lighter but I don’t think it’s really a
> great combo with a bike. Would love to be wrong, though!
> -Wes
>
> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 11:28:47 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Now that has to be one of the most interesting commutes I've heard about;
>> thanks for sharing.
>>
>> I'd love to know more about his boat and what it's made from and its
>> features.
>>
>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 11:22 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> This guy did a bike/boat commute from Jersey into NYC. Pretty unique
>>> setup!
>>>
>>> [image: maxresdefault.jpg]
>>>
>>> A bike commute you wont believe - Tom Lutz
>>> <https://youtu.be/k-DLqc9Vplg?si=R3KNhdfn5-IZzuEK>
>>> youtu.be <https://youtu.be/k-DLqc9Vplg?si=R3KNhdfn5-IZzuEK>
>>> <https://youtu.be/k-DLqc9Vplg?si=R3KNhdfn5-IZzuEK>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Front derailleur options for 38/24 front, 11-36 rear?

[Patrick Moore]

It just occurred to me that I can use a good FD that still has the outer
throw limit arm -- the extension of the parallelogram that contacts the
bottom of the outer limit screw; I cut off that on my 7400 when using it
with a Silver triple -- the throw was just right sans stop to get the chain
onto the 46 t ring -- and ditto for the 7402, to get *that* one to work
with a wide-Q (172 mm IIRC) Bontrager Race Lite pipe spindle external
bearing triple. That too serendipitously worked perfectly without any
except design limit to its outer throw. But I should replace the 7402 with
the 7400 on the Matthews because with 158 mm Logic (triple converted to
double) there is far more throw on the 7402 than needed -- whence a
"manual" stop when I shift -- while the design limit on the 7400 ought to
be just right for this Logic.



On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:15 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I don't see the latter listing (auction had closed when I looked) but I'll
> honor my commitment; the various other DA FDs that popped up were in tht
> $40 to $60 range, which I don't mind paying. And I'm 9/10 convinced that
> yours will work fine.
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:08 PM Robert Calton  wrote:
>
>> That is extremely generous of you, Patrick, wow! I will then order this
>> derailleur <https://www.ebay.com/itm/256209530268?var=556202231378> with
>> delight (it's a little nicer condition than the other one). I plan to have
>> my local, independent bike shop assemble the bike when all the parts arrive
>> -- just waiting on this then and the wheels. They've got the right ethos
>> for this community (they only sell steel, normal folk's bikes and mostly
>> older "rescue" bikes they recondition), so I trust that they are experts on
>> installation. I'll keep in touch after the build, hopefully with a
>> successful report and some glamor shots :)
>>
>> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 4:54:47 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Robert: If you will be using a 9 speed cassette, I'll go out on a limb
>>> and predict that the first-gen DA will work fine. I'll go so far as to
>>> offer: If after trying it and getting expert advice if it * does not* work,
>>> and as long as the FD is in the same condition as when you bought it, I'll
>>> buy the 1st gen DA from you for your full purchase price minus your
>>> shipping expense from the seller. (I'll pay *your* shipping cost *to
>>> me,* of course.)
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:45 PM Robert Calton  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the wealth of information Patrick :) I am excited to learn
>>>> more about bicycles in general and thrilled to build this Homer over the
>>>> next month. I will be running a 9-speed cassette, so I don't think that
>>>> I'll be trying to find a super narrow FD cage. I'll look into the DA 7402
>>>> and similar derailleurs. I like the all-silver look.
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 4:40:32 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Forgot to address one of your questions: * Does me running 11-36
>>>>> cassette have anything to do with the front derailleur choice?*
>>>>>
>>>>> It might, since with such a small outer cog the chain will be closer
>>>>> to the chainstay and bottom of the FD cage than with a bigger outer like a
>>>>> 13 or 14. Whether this makes a difference in your case, I cannot say for
>>>>> sure, but again I'd *guess* that, since you will be using the 11 only
>>>>> with the 38, this won't matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's also the matter of a wider cassette and chain rub on the
>>>>> derailleur cage. Is your cassette 11 speed or more? If so, I can't speak 
>>>>> to
>>>>> that, but the wider the change in chain angle and the narrower the FD cage
>>>>> (as, for a 1st-gen DA road FD for 5 o 6 speed freewheels) the more chance
>>>>> of chain rub on the extreme outside and inside cogs unless you trim the 
>>>>> FD.
>>>>> For me, I use my DA 7402 (I am pretty sure) FD with a 10 sp cassette and
>>>>> when I set the FD "in the middle" of its range there is no chain rub 
>>>>> either
>>>>> in small or big cogs, and I think there's still futher leeway for chain
>>>>> angle without rubbing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also affecting chain angle is chainstay length, but as this the RBW
>>>>> list and not rec.bicycles.tech or Cat.6.fredlist, I'd guess that will not
>>>>> be a problem for you.
>>>&g

Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, often after 6 months or a year or more of riding, after the sealant
has plugged, I guess very many wee little thorn holes, enough sealant will
have wept into the tire carcase and dried to glue the tube to the inside of
the tire.

I use very thin butyl tubes. Even so, I've never, ever had a problem or
even a worry about just yanking hard to peel the tube off the tire; and
again, when it sticks firmly this is generally after >12 months at least.

The real and big problem is a big hole that dumps most of 2 to 4 fl oz
(depending if 1" or 1/8" tube) all at once into the inside of the tire;
then you don't usually have a sticking problem but you've got a bloody
mess. I carry an old bandana in each tool kit to wipe up such messes,
though 99/100 times I use them instead to wipe my hands after messing with
the chain.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:16 PM Chris Fly  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> How is it to take a tube with sealant out of the tire after the sealant
> has fixed a hole? Do they stick to each other?
>
> Chris
>
> Make a space for people to come as they are and not have to just “fit in”
>
> On May 11, 2024, at 2:11 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of
> using ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks,
> Avocets) and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open
> tubular" Paris Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles.
> Stan's worked in my 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of
> years, Orange Seal worked even better.
>
> I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100
> gram actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X
> 20/559X1", as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and
> (IIRC) lightweight Vittoria ditto.
>
> OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as
> well as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.
>
> *OS Regular Formula!* OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, *does
> not work for me* in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.
>
> The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very
> occasional (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS
> Regular won't seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let
> me get home before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2
> spare tubes, either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer --
> dry + 4 fl oz bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have
> to stop mid ride for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture
> with a Rema once back home.
>
> You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the
> area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue,
> and patch as usual.
>
> Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12
> or 18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or
> less often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately --
> due, I think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very
> small amounts of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is
> no longer enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing
> OS Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate;
> in very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
> ---
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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---

*When 

Re: [RBW] Front derailleur options for 38/24 front, 11-36 rear?

[Patrick Moore]

I don't see the latter listing (auction had closed when I looked) but I'll
honor my commitment; the various other DA FDs that popped up were in tht
$40 to $60 range, which I don't mind paying. And I'm 9/10 convinced that
yours will work fine.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:08 PM Robert Calton  wrote:

> That is extremely generous of you, Patrick, wow! I will then order this
> derailleur <https://www.ebay.com/itm/256209530268?var=556202231378> with
> delight (it's a little nicer condition than the other one). I plan to have
> my local, independent bike shop assemble the bike when all the parts arrive
> -- just waiting on this then and the wheels. They've got the right ethos
> for this community (they only sell steel, normal folk's bikes and mostly
> older "rescue" bikes they recondition), so I trust that they are experts on
> installation. I'll keep in touch after the build, hopefully with a
> successful report and some glamor shots :)
>
> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 4:54:47 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Robert: If you will be using a 9 speed cassette, I'll go out on a limb
>> and predict that the first-gen DA will work fine. I'll go so far as to
>> offer: If after trying it and getting expert advice if it * does not* work,
>> and as long as the FD is in the same condition as when you bought it, I'll
>> buy the 1st gen DA from you for your full purchase price minus your
>> shipping expense from the seller. (I'll pay *your* shipping cost *to me,*
>> of course.)
>>
>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:45 PM Robert Calton  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the wealth of information Patrick :) I am excited to learn
>>> more about bicycles in general and thrilled to build this Homer over the
>>> next month. I will be running a 9-speed cassette, so I don't think that
>>> I'll be trying to find a super narrow FD cage. I'll look into the DA 7402
>>> and similar derailleurs. I like the all-silver look.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 4:40:32 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> Forgot to address one of your questions: * Does me running 11-36
>>>> cassette have anything to do with the front derailleur choice?*
>>>>
>>>> It might, since with such a small outer cog the chain will be closer to
>>>> the chainstay and bottom of the FD cage than with a bigger outer like a 13
>>>> or 14. Whether this makes a difference in your case, I cannot say for sure,
>>>> but again I'd *guess* that, since you will be using the 11 only with
>>>> the 38, this won't matter.
>>>>
>>>> There's also the matter of a wider cassette and chain rub on the
>>>> derailleur cage. Is your cassette 11 speed or more? If so, I can't speak to
>>>> that, but the wider the change in chain angle and the narrower the FD cage
>>>> (as, for a 1st-gen DA road FD for 5 o 6 speed freewheels) the more chance
>>>> of chain rub on the extreme outside and inside cogs unless you trim the FD.
>>>> For me, I use my DA 7402 (I am pretty sure) FD with a 10 sp cassette and
>>>> when I set the FD "in the middle" of its range there is no chain rub either
>>>> in small or big cogs, and I think there's still futher leeway for chain
>>>> angle without rubbing.
>>>>
>>>> Also affecting chain angle is chainstay length, but as this the RBW
>>>> list and not rec.bicycles.tech or Cat.6.fredlist, I'd guess that will not
>>>> be a problem for you.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:29 PM Patrick Moore 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've not used a first-gen DA FD, but I have used a 7400 and a 740n --
>>>>> either 01 or 02; I think it's the latter. Again, it shifts very well over 
>>>>> a
>>>>> 44/28 and also did so ove a 38/24.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I may simply be less demanding about FD performance; and I don't
>>>>> shift the front a great deal (my setups since the 2X9 on the Fargo are 1X 
>>>>> +
>>>>> granny) but when I do shift the front, I don't have any more problems than
>>>>> I had with more typical road doubles or old-time mtb tripls.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do have a chain catcher mounted to the chainstay just aft of the bb
>>>>> to prevent chain suck, but I first installed that on the Fargo with the
>>>>> 46/36/24 triple when I was having chainsuck problems; I've not had that
>>>>> problem with the 2Xs.
>>>>>
>>>>> To sum up and answer your question d

Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of
using ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks,
Avocets) and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open
tubular" Paris Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles.
Stan's worked in my 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of
years, Orange Seal worked even better.

I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100
gram actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X
20/559X1", as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and
(IIRC) lightweight Vittoria ditto.

OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as
well as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.

*OS Regular Formula!* OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, *does
not work for me* in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.

The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very
occasional (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS
Regular won't seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let
me get home before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2
spare tubes, either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer --
dry + 4 fl oz bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have
to stop mid ride for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture
with a Rema once back home.

You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the
area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue,
and patch as usual.

Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12 or
18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or less
often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately -- due,
I think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very small
amounts of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is no
longer enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing OS
Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate; in
very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:52 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

>
> >
> > On May 11, 2024, at 3:23 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> >
> > 'd love to use featherlight, more puncture-resistant TPUs in place of
> the extralight butyls I now use (with sealant, of course, since this is the
> land of goat heads; this for road tires;
>
> I’d like to hear more about your experience using sealant in butyl tubes.
> I tried that briefly. It seemed to make the tubes use-once-and-throw-away,
> as once it deflated the sealant stuck together so much that the tube
> wouldn’t inflate again.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Front derailleur options for 38/24 front, 11-36 rear?

[Patrick Moore]

Robert: If you will be using a 9 speed cassette, I'll go out on a limb and
predict that the first-gen DA will work fine. I'll go so far as to offer:
If after trying it and getting expert advice if it * does not* work, and as
long as the FD is in the same condition as when you bought it, I'll buy the
1st gen DA from you for your full purchase price minus your shipping
expense from the seller. (I'll pay *your* shipping cost *to me,* of course.)

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:45 PM Robert Calton  wrote:

> Thanks for the wealth of information Patrick :) I am excited to learn more
> about bicycles in general and thrilled to build this Homer over the next
> month. I will be running a 9-speed cassette, so I don't think that I'll be
> trying to find a super narrow FD cage. I'll look into the DA 7402 and
> similar derailleurs. I like the all-silver look.
>
> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 4:40:32 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Forgot to address one of your questions: * Does me running 11-36
>> cassette have anything to do with the front derailleur choice?*
>>
>> It might, since with such a small outer cog the chain will be closer to
>> the chainstay and bottom of the FD cage than with a bigger outer like a 13
>> or 14. Whether this makes a difference in your case, I cannot say for sure,
>> but again I'd *guess* that, since you will be using the 11 only with the
>> 38, this won't matter.
>>
>> There's also the matter of a wider cassette and chain rub on the
>> derailleur cage. Is your cassette 11 speed or more? If so, I can't speak to
>> that, but the wider the change in chain angle and the narrower the FD cage
>> (as, for a 1st-gen DA road FD for 5 o 6 speed freewheels) the more chance
>> of chain rub on the extreme outside and inside cogs unless you trim the FD.
>> For me, I use my DA 7402 (I am pretty sure) FD with a 10 sp cassette and
>> when I set the FD "in the middle" of its range there is no chain rub either
>> in small or big cogs, and I think there's still futher leeway for chain
>> angle without rubbing.
>>
>> Also affecting chain angle is chainstay length, but as this the RBW list
>> and not rec.bicycles.tech or Cat.6.fredlist, I'd guess that will not be a
>> problem for you.
>>
>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:29 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> I've not used a first-gen DA FD, but I have used a 7400 and a 740n --
>>> either 01 or 02; I think it's the latter. Again, it shifts very well over a
>>> 44/28 and also did so ove a 38/24.
>>>
>>> Now, I may simply be less demanding about FD performance; and I don't
>>> shift the front a great deal (my setups since the 2X9 on the Fargo are 1X +
>>> granny) but when I do shift the front, I don't have any more problems than
>>> I had with more typical road doubles or old-time mtb tripls.
>>>
>>> I do have a chain catcher mounted to the chainstay just aft of the bb to
>>> prevent chain suck, but I first installed that on the Fargo with the
>>> 46/36/24 triple when I was having chainsuck problems; I've not had that
>>> problem with the 2Xs.
>>>
>>> To sum up and answer your question directly re the 1st-gen DA FD: I
>>> guess it will work fine. But if you ask me in court, I'll deny everything.
>>>
>>> Good luck! And keep us informed.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 1:16 PM Robert Calton  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Patrick! I saw a really nice bottom pull DA front mech used on
>>>> eBay, first gen
>>>> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/156203422002?itmmeta=01HXMGZA1GWNBSX67S31YDQ76P=item245e731132:g:n34AAOSw~59licD5=enc%3AAQAJAAABEF1YcKCwhxvKTsO9pDaGLqEXCL0Zi0kr4wWrhnmkXjTQ2DnCoH2NdAhg7jvIOaNU%2BDO%2B1iOqOy1Mo%2FY0SQofRIqFYHaL9YHrRUAiJDD1GC0OvjtIe0ZVNzEUywGtzFUS5AN19PPQQM0iCrSseVeaxlRJ%2BH1NkJkLh4eT6Pe858pxyG92ZQmkqvsPbPmunr9Erlc40hS3bat4nMl1FFYG5Su3gSBAbk5YwwJj3681dYYD%2FKfndZlcixKY7m6bPtuHcIS9s3dVFNUnFrFam0E%2FFKWNxIDN%2F8Z31DgEyMDXRPQjXvJijx5FBXP4EtaA2hMWmnfebdUiI3Wy6whpTfUGDpFDixjJxbrYTgDIxWgNs%2F8D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-qg_ZDtYw>,
>>>> and it says it has a 16T capacity. Since I'm at 14T differential on my
>>>> front chainrings (38-24),  would this work? Does me running 11-36 cassette
>>>> have anything to do with the front derailleur choice?
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Robert: About 10 years ago I swapped out a 3X7 drivetrain on my 2010
>>>>> Fargo for a 2X9. The 3X7 consisted of 46/36/24 rings pulling (iirc) a 
>>>>> 15-24
>>>>> 7sp cassette, and I swapped that out for a 38/24 X somet

Re: [RBW] Front derailleur options for 38/24 front, 11-36 rear?

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot to address one of your questions: * Does me running 11-36 cassette
have anything to do with the front derailleur choice?*

It might, since with such a small outer cog the chain will be closer to the
chainstay and bottom of the FD cage than with a bigger outer like a 13 or
14. Whether this makes a difference in your case, I cannot say for sure,
but again I'd *guess* that, since you will be using the 11 only with the
38, this won't matter.

There's also the matter of a wider cassette and chain rub on the derailleur
cage. Is your cassette 11 speed or more? If so, I can't speak to that, but
the wider the change in chain angle and the narrower the FD cage (as, for a
1st-gen DA road FD for 5 o 6 speed freewheels) the more chance of chain rub
on the extreme outside and inside cogs unless you trim the FD. For me, I
use my DA 7402 (I am pretty sure) FD with a 10 sp cassette and when I set
the FD "in the middle" of its range there is no chain rub either in small
or big cogs, and I think there's still futher leeway for chain angle
without rubbing.

Also affecting chain angle is chainstay length, but as this the RBW list
and not rec.bicycles.tech or Cat.6.fredlist, I'd guess that will not be a
problem for you.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:29 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I've not used a first-gen DA FD, but I have used a 7400 and a 740n --
> either 01 or 02; I think it's the latter. Again, it shifts very well over a
> 44/28 and also did so ove a 38/24.
>
> Now, I may simply be less demanding about FD performance; and I don't
> shift the front a great deal (my setups since the 2X9 on the Fargo are 1X +
> granny) but when I do shift the front, I don't have any more problems than
> I had with more typical road doubles or old-time mtb tripls.
>
> I do have a chain catcher mounted to the chainstay just aft of the bb to
> prevent chain suck, but I first installed that on the Fargo with the
> 46/36/24 triple when I was having chainsuck problems; I've not had that
> problem with the 2Xs.
>
> To sum up and answer your question directly re the 1st-gen DA FD: I guess
> it will work fine. But if you ask me in court, I'll deny everything.
>
> Good luck! And keep us informed.
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 1:16 PM Robert Calton  wrote:
>
>> Thanks Patrick! I saw a really nice bottom pull DA front mech used on
>> eBay, first gen
>> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/156203422002?itmmeta=01HXMGZA1GWNBSX67S31YDQ76P=item245e731132:g:n34AAOSw~59licD5=enc%3AAQAJAAABEF1YcKCwhxvKTsO9pDaGLqEXCL0Zi0kr4wWrhnmkXjTQ2DnCoH2NdAhg7jvIOaNU%2BDO%2B1iOqOy1Mo%2FY0SQofRIqFYHaL9YHrRUAiJDD1GC0OvjtIe0ZVNzEUywGtzFUS5AN19PPQQM0iCrSseVeaxlRJ%2BH1NkJkLh4eT6Pe858pxyG92ZQmkqvsPbPmunr9Erlc40hS3bat4nMl1FFYG5Su3gSBAbk5YwwJj3681dYYD%2FKfndZlcixKY7m6bPtuHcIS9s3dVFNUnFrFam0E%2FFKWNxIDN%2F8Z31DgEyMDXRPQjXvJijx5FBXP4EtaA2hMWmnfebdUiI3Wy6whpTfUGDpFDixjJxbrYTgDIxWgNs%2F8D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-qg_ZDtYw>,
>> and it says it has a 16T capacity. Since I'm at 14T differential on my
>> front chainrings (38-24),  would this work? Does me running 11-36 cassette
>> have anything to do with the front derailleur choice?
>>
>> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Robert: About 10 years ago I swapped out a 3X7 drivetrain on my 2010
>>> Fargo for a 2X9. The 3X7 consisted of 46/36/24 rings pulling (iirc) a 15-24
>>> 7sp cassette, and I swapped that out for a 38/24 X something-like 13-26 9
>>> speed (29 1/2" Schwalbe Big Apples, then ditto Big Ones).
>>>
>>> The derailleurs were both LX of the period. When I converted the
>>> chainrings I simply swapped the 46 outer for a (BBG) bashguard, swapped the
>>> 36 for a 38, and adjusted the FD throw limit screw. I did *not* change
>>> the position of the FD on the seat tube. After all, the FD shifted the
>>> 36/24 properly in that position, and it's not surprising that it shifted
>>> the 38/24 properly in the same position.
>>>
>>> Later I swapped the LX FD for an ancient Dura Ace FD which I did mount a
>>> bit lower, but for the bottom of the cage to clear the chainstay as well as
>>> for the lower edge of the cage to clear the (IIRC, 48 t-size) bash guard,
>>> the FD had to be placed much where it would have been placed for a
>>> 46/36/24. The DA FD worked just as well as the LX. Again, 38/24 X 15-24 (or
>>> close) drivetrain.
>>>
>>> Nowadays, I have a 44/28 wide-range "subcompact" setup and the same DA
>>> FD positioned high enough above the 44 to clear the 48-t-equivalent
>>> bashguard; here too front shifts are just fine.
>>>
>>> FWIW.
>>>
>>> Matthews "road bike for dirt" with 42/28 (before I installed the 44) and
>>> Du

Re: [RBW] Front derailleur options for 38/24 front, 11-36 rear?

[Patrick Moore]

I've not used a first-gen DA FD, but I have used a 7400 and a 740n --
either 01 or 02; I think it's the latter. Again, it shifts very well over a
44/28 and also did so ove a 38/24.

Now, I may simply be less demanding about FD performance; and I don't shift
the front a great deal (my setups since the 2X9 on the Fargo are 1X +
granny) but when I do shift the front, I don't have any more problems than
I had with more typical road doubles or old-time mtb tripls.

I do have a chain catcher mounted to the chainstay just aft of the bb to
prevent chain suck, but I first installed that on the Fargo with the
46/36/24 triple when I was having chainsuck problems; I've not had that
problem with the 2Xs.

To sum up and answer your question directly re the 1st-gen DA FD: I guess
it will work fine. But if you ask me in court, I'll deny everything.

Good luck! And keep us informed.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 1:16 PM Robert Calton  wrote:

> Thanks Patrick! I saw a really nice bottom pull DA front mech used on
> eBay, first gen
> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/156203422002?itmmeta=01HXMGZA1GWNBSX67S31YDQ76P=item245e731132:g:n34AAOSw~59licD5=enc%3AAQAJAAABEF1YcKCwhxvKTsO9pDaGLqEXCL0Zi0kr4wWrhnmkXjTQ2DnCoH2NdAhg7jvIOaNU%2BDO%2B1iOqOy1Mo%2FY0SQofRIqFYHaL9YHrRUAiJDD1GC0OvjtIe0ZVNzEUywGtzFUS5AN19PPQQM0iCrSseVeaxlRJ%2BH1NkJkLh4eT6Pe858pxyG92ZQmkqvsPbPmunr9Erlc40hS3bat4nMl1FFYG5Su3gSBAbk5YwwJj3681dYYD%2FKfndZlcixKY7m6bPtuHcIS9s3dVFNUnFrFam0E%2FFKWNxIDN%2F8Z31DgEyMDXRPQjXvJijx5FBXP4EtaA2hMWmnfebdUiI3Wy6whpTfUGDpFDixjJxbrYTgDIxWgNs%2F8D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-qg_ZDtYw>,
> and it says it has a 16T capacity. Since I'm at 14T differential on my
> front chainrings (38-24),  would this work? Does me running 11-36 cassette
> have anything to do with the front derailleur choice?
>
> On Saturday, May 11, 2024 at 2:54:01 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Robert: About 10 years ago I swapped out a 3X7 drivetrain on my 2010
>> Fargo for a 2X9. The 3X7 consisted of 46/36/24 rings pulling (iirc) a 15-24
>> 7sp cassette, and I swapped that out for a 38/24 X something-like 13-26 9
>> speed (29 1/2" Schwalbe Big Apples, then ditto Big Ones).
>>
>> The derailleurs were both LX of the period. When I converted the
>> chainrings I simply swapped the 46 outer for a (BBG) bashguard, swapped the
>> 36 for a 38, and adjusted the FD throw limit screw. I did *not* change
>> the position of the FD on the seat tube. After all, the FD shifted the
>> 36/24 properly in that position, and it's not surprising that it shifted
>> the 38/24 properly in the same position.
>>
>> Later I swapped the LX FD for an ancient Dura Ace FD which I did mount a
>> bit lower, but for the bottom of the cage to clear the chainstay as well as
>> for the lower edge of the cage to clear the (IIRC, 48 t-size) bash guard,
>> the FD had to be placed much where it would have been placed for a
>> 46/36/24. The DA FD worked just as well as the LX. Again, 38/24 X 15-24 (or
>> close) drivetrain.
>>
>> Nowadays, I have a 44/28 wide-range "subcompact" setup and the same DA FD
>> positioned high enough above the 44 to clear the 48-t-equivalent bashguard;
>> here too front shifts are just fine.
>>
>> FWIW.
>>
>> Matthews "road bike for dirt" with 42/28 (before I installed the 44) and
>> Dura Ace 740-something FD. There must be close to an inch of gap between
>> the bottom of the outer FD cage plate and the top of the teeth of the 42 t
>> ring:
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 12:35 PM Robert Calton  wrote:
>>
>>> Good afternoon group! :) Hoping to tap into the collective wisdom here
>>> to pick a front derailleur for my Homer build, it's the last piece!
>>>
>>> I'll be using the Silver 38/24 crankset, 11-36 cassette with the Shimano
>>> Deore XT M761 rear derailleur. I saw that the matching XT front says it's
>>> for a triple chainring, so I need to find something that's for a double.
>>>
>>> What would folks recommend?
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c50dbf4b-e953-4239-bc7a-72d746aeebfcn%40googlegroups.com
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquer

Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Ted: thanks for being an early guinea pig for TPUs, RH TPUs in particular.
Your travails have probably saved others much $$ and grief.

I'd love to use featherlight, more puncture-resistant TPUs in place of the
extralight butyls I now use (with sealant, of course, since this is the
land of goat heads; this for road tires; I use tubeless for fat, very lp
off road tires) but until RH or someone else markets a sealant proven over
time to protect TPUs from thorns and other small penetrants, I'll hold off
to wait and see.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:06 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> Update here. I went for a couple of rides, total of 100km, on my new
> 584x48's. They certainly feel nice, and at that volume you really are
> dropping noticeable weight from each wheel. By the end of the second ride I
> was thinking the rear felt a little too cushy. A pinch test said there was
> still plenty of pressure. The next morning, though, the tire was completely
> flat. I removed the tube (quite easily, no issues), inflated it a bit, and
> it seemed to be holding air just fine. I thought that for sure I'd be able
> to see a hole in the clear tubing. I swept the inside of the tire and found
> nothing. So, mounted it back up (easy, no issues), inflated it carefully,
> and set the bike aside. A few hours later I checked and it had lost a lot
> of pressure. So, took it out again (easy, no issues), inflated it and
> started running it through a sink full of water. I finally found a very
> tiny leak. Checking the tire in that location I found a tiny bit of wire in
> the outer tread of the tire but couldn't feel it on the inside. Removed the
> wire, marked the leak location on the tube, wiped with alcohol (removing my
> mark in the process, of course), and after it dried put on a Park glueless
> (I like that my Mac autocorrected that to clueless) patch, praying I put it
> in the right location. I put on the patch with air in the tire, figuring
> it's best not to stretch the patch area too much. Installed again (easy, no
> issues), inflated, and set the bike aside. We'll see if the patch is
> successful. Even if it is, though, I think the "TPU tubes are less prone to
> flats" argument seems to be debunked. Which is too bad. I really want to
> like these, but the rationale is dwindling in my experience.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
> --
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> .
>


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[RBW] Bike commuting, Rivendells, coffee, music, food, etc.

[Patrick Moore]

Is this the Rivendell Seoul commuter video that someone posted recently, or
another one? -- This one is dated 05/11/2024, so perhaps a different one.
In case it's the latter, I post it here and now. Either the same or another
very fun watch.

https://youtu.be/IzYSqKLosEo

I'd love to hear of others' commutes:

- How far?
- -What environment (urban, suburban, inner city, bleak industrial exurbs,
rural), terrain (flat, hilly, rolling; windy, still, rainy, dry, humid) and
vegetation (concrete, desert, tropical, temperate, savannah) and traffic
(urban danger, suburban feeder, rural solitude, lucky bike path).
- What bike? Photos and excruciating detail about build.
- Photos!

I used to commute across town (~Coors + Montano NW to ~Central + Juan Tabo
NW, or, earlier, Corrales Road + 528 to Carlisle + Indian School NE or
Unser + Ladera to University + Indian School NE), about 15 to 16 miles
1-way, but stopped June 2008 when I started working at home. But I too
found that a morning commute transformed a dreary day of work drudgery into
a "mini-epic" and "micro-vacation," and I had a local builder (Dave Porter
of long-ago time trial and racing bike fame) convert my "nice" 2003 Riv
Road Custom, that had been largely hanging on the wall while I commuted by
(nice) fixed gear beaters into a *very nice* fixed gear commuter; a
decision I never, ever regretted.

As I said, I now work at home but I use a bike for most of my
transportation, putting 3X the miles on my bike as the 600 miles per year
on my old car (mechanicals in top shape but body rather dented thanks to
daughter's 3-year appropriation during high school), with car continuing
the bike theme with stickers including "Old Man Petersen's Ferrous
Velocipedes & Canvas Curios" and the usual Rivendell favorite, "I Like
Eddy."

I just had a very nice time turning a 6/10 mile RT shopping errand into a
13-mile detour with some modest hills and 4 miles of headwind in the hooks;
that's pretty typical nowadays, with errand distances ranging from 11 to 25
miles and "fun" rides -- paved trails, sandy acequia trails and access
roads -- up to 30 miles on 3 bikes, Rivendell or Rivendell-as-model
customs. (Hope this summer God willing to assemble nice drop bar fixed
gear, 1X or S3X, beater to extend errand riding to places where I have to
lock bike up outside; I've been lucky for so long, being able to park my
bike in my office and wheel it through stores in place of a shopping cart).

I think that (at my age at least, 69)  20 to 25 miles RT would be the ideal
commuting distance, as long as the environment is relatively flat and not
too windy for most of the year. I used to commute 20 to 40 miles RT; 30 to
40 rt even as a young 40- and 50-something became a bit wearing, at least
trying to break 60 minutes clock running on a 67" to 70" fixed gear with
luggage and a 7-mile inbound gradual climb.

Hope to see photos and information about your (all y'all's) commute.

Oh: and your coffee, music, snack food.

Coffee: old man taste: strong, rich, black, no sugar. As a tutor long ago
pronounced, "Coffee is not a sugarable beverage." But generally I drink
English Breakfast with milk and a tsp of sugar.

Music: Bach and Handel, post-psychedelic Jerry Garcia, bluegrass.

Food: New Mexico and Italian.





-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Droptube Rivendell Custom 54cm

[Patrick Moore]

List master willing, I'd love to hear more about Rivendell listers'
motorcycles. I've toyed with the idea of getting one but always decided
that for the price of a decent secondary-road motorbike I could buy a Clem
or buy a new (used) car.

The only "motor-cycle" I ever rode was a 50 cc (? -- I'm guessing; it
wasn't powerful*) Vespa circa 1973, belonging to a girl in my class -- she
commuted to school on it; she on back giggling while I flubbed the
twist-shifts.

* The road to our school was a ~1 mile prepared dirt road ending in a very,
very steep, curving 1/4-mile long hill. I'd always gag myself honking up it
on my bike in the lowest gear after a fast ride to school. I recall the
Vespa with 2 passengers (friend was not exactly svelte) almost stalling as
I frantically tried to find 1st; I did manage to do so and thus avoided
falling over.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 6:05 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Just so's y'all know, I rode the motorbikes for decades. I got a refresher
> course and decided to give it another whirl. It will be a used bike, maybe
> a Harley Sportster, this is HOG country up here. The point of the thread is
> to sell a bicycle! 
>
> On Thursday, May 9, 2024 at 3:00:14 PM UTC-7 Mark R. wrote:
>
>>
>> Motorcycles are addicting. I’ve been riding street since 1989 to get
>> around town, it was safer to commute at night than
>> my bicycle.  My opinion is to buy a used smaller bike, see how it feels,
>> before you sink money into it
>>
>> I got rid of one bike because it was too slow and loud. The next because
>> it was too tall and I had trouble reaching the
>> ground at lights. Then I found the Perfect fit for me and put 40k miles
>> on that Moto.
>> As it stands , I hardly ever use my car (about 2k miles since 2019) . I
>> put 22k one bike and 2k on another till last year.
>> This year I’m on track to 10k, this bike is new and fresh with all the
>> latest safety features.
>> Mark R
>> SDCA
>>
>>
>> --
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] Riv-rafting

[Patrick Moore]

Got it; again, sounds very interesting. I see that Alpacka boats retail
basically for the price of an entry-level Clem.

I should probably buy an entry level Clem first, though.

On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 4:27 PM John Rinker  wrote:

> Hello Patrick. No trailer needed as, you guessed it, the raft rolls into a
> tidy little 5lb burrito and fits very nicely on the rack. In addition to
> the photos of the raft with the bike, I should have taken a photo of the
> bike with the raft on it!
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Thursday, May 9, 2024 at 3:05:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That looks very tempting. I can't make out a trailer; does the boat fold
>> up small enought to be carried on a rack?
>>
>> I'm 1/4 mile crow-directly west through bosque scrub from the Rio Grande
>> and it's an easy and pleasant ride north on a paved recreation trail to
>> various possible insertion points. In fact, my next door neighbors have a
>> couple of inflatable canoes which they generally drive north to entry
>> points, float back south, then drive the other car to pick up the first
>> one; tho' husband Chris some years ago did drive north, float south, then
>> rode his bike back north to get his car.
>>
>> On Thu, May 9, 2024 at 12:07 PM John Rinker  wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Sue,
>>>
>>> I haven't tried my boat without a bike yet, but I did paddle one a few
>>> years back *sans bicyclette *and I remember it being like any other
>>> raft without a keel- kind of squirreley.
>>> With the bike, however, it handles very nicely indeed. Alpacka makes
>>> other such rafts for use without a bicycle, and I imagine these track much
>>> better.
>>>
>>> Yes, the bicycle is attached at 4 lashing points with Voile-type straps,
>>> and the wheels with bungee cords. It's all very solid and stable. If there
>>> was a chance that my bike would end up at the bottom of the river, I'd
>>> think twice.
>>>
>>> Maybe this photo shows it a bit better:
>>> [image: IMG_3267 (1).jpeg]
>>> Cheers, John
>>>
>>> On Thursday, May 9, 2024 at 8:13:40 AM UTC-7 Sue J wrote:
>>>
>>>> John, I am curious to know how this craft behaves if there is no bike
>>>> in the bow. Did you give that a try?
>>>> Also, do you secure the bike in the bow, or if you capsize would it
>>>> sink to the bottom of the waterway?
>>>>
>>>> Sue
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, May 9, 2024 at 7:19:46 AM UTC-7 Curtis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like a great adventure.  Enjoy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Curtis
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2024, 7:18 PM John Rinker  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> After several months in a box, I finally took my pack raft for its
>>>>>> maiden voyage down the Salt River.
>>>>>> [image: IMG_3282.jpeg]
>>>>>> I rode 20k out to the put-in, and in about 30 minutes was ready to
>>>>>> shove off. The Alpacka raft is a fine design that has exceeded my
>>>>>> expectations for comfort, stability, and maneuverability. My tall bike 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> body fit just fine. It's a super fun boat!
>>>>>> [image: IMG_3271.jpeg]
>>>>>> If you love riding and rivers, this is the way to go!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: IMG_3308.jpeg]
>>>>>> Cheers, John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Snake-in-a-bike

[Patrick Moore]

He wanted to examine the YG's lugwork up close.

I often come across snakes on paved recreational trails in the bosque at
this time of year, as the pavement warms up but while the thicket is still
cool. I don't stop to see how they're doing, so I don't determine the type,
but rattlesnakes are common here, and I've heard the buzz of rattles before
as I skimmed past a snake's nose.

Lizards too: I barely missed a few tails recently of lizards sunning
themselves in the middle of the asphalt.

On Wed, May 8, 2024 at 7:36 AM Allan McLane  wrote:

> Here's a tale from the “Well, I never thought I’d see that” department…
>
> This afternoon I was out on the Yvez Gomez, exercising the dog, when we
> encountered a smooth green snake (Opheodrys vernalis), sunning itself in
> the middle of the road. I stopped next to the snake to maneuver it to the
> side but it decided to climb up my back wheel spokes and inspect the
> interior of the cassette instead. After several failed attempts to nudge it
> along, it exited the cassette, went forward along the chainstay, and
> completely entered the fender, going up.
>
> To extract it from the inside of the fender I slowly rolled the bike
> backwards until the snake popped out the rear and onto the ground. At this
> point it had gotten the message well and slithered off into the stone wall.
>
> For the curious, full photo documentation here:
> https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBpqQB
> <https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBpqQB>
>
> Allan in Marlboro, Vt
>
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] FD shifters and why not friction

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to add that the one summer I worked in a bike shop, a great deal
of my work was tuneups for low-end '90s mtbs that had been sitting in
garages or sheds for years. Many came with Grip Shift. I don't recall ever
one of these systems being unrepairable, tho' I did occasionally find
unrepairable Shimano trigger shifters. Cheap plastic, not the most precise
shifters, but apparently pretty indestructible. Still, I too prefer
friction.

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Re: [RBW] FD shifters and why not friction

[Patrick Moore]

Pics of the Ridge Searcher? (And who comes up with these names? It's as bad
as pharmaceuticals.)

As to why bike mfrs complicate what is really a very simple and easily
learned action -- shifting a chain to different cogs or rings -- I think
it's largely marketing: #1: make it idiot-proof (*) so that you don't scare
away neophytes and therefore can sell more bikes, and #2: make it more
"techie" so that you attract more buyers interested in "latest and
greatest" who after purchase will leave the bike in the garage for 15 years
until a relative posts it on Craigslist.

I'm exaggerating, but I do think that these 2 motives drive much innovation
-- some of which, I grant, ends up being very, very useful indeed --
clipless pedals, modern LED lighting, plastic-base saddles (sorry, tho'
just bought B17N, love the original Flite), aero levers, close ratio fixed
IGHs. (Wait ...)

Really, to fully inoculate yourself against all this sort of thing, reduce
your entire bike stable to fixed gears.

Patrick Moore, who fondly remembers hot-rodding a 1992 XO-1 with purple
anodized 370 gram Sun M14As, Specialized 26X1" Turbos, a 12-19 7-sp with
Topline SL triple, and Twist Grip (tm) drop bar shifters (they worked --
not badly; you did have to very slightly overshift for best performance).

On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 3:43 PM George Schick  wrote:

> I recently finished rehabbing a '95 Schwinn "Ridge Searcher" that was in
> very neglected condition.  It was given to a lady who has little or no
> money by someone who had "stored the bike away in the basement" for many
> years without any maintenance.  Bad a shape as it was in - and it was
> pretty darn bad - I only had to replace two major components, the BB and
> the chain.  Having cleaned everything up (which included two hours in an
> ultrasonic tank to get the cassette knocked loose of all the built up grime
> and lots and lots of elbow grease on other parts) I finally began to
> reassemble everything last week.  And although the cleaned and lubed RD
> worked just fine, I had a devil of a time getting the FD to work properly
> over the three chainrings.
>
> And, of course, this was one of those bikes with upright bars and those
> accursed "twist lock" shifters.  The RD shifter on the right side of the
> bar worked OK with little adjustment necessary of the RD.  But the FD was a
> nightmare which included multiple tightenings of the shift cable,
> penetrating lube on the FD pivoting points, etc. in order to get it dialed
> in properly.  And, also of course, it too was a three-position twist lock
> shifter on the left side of the bar.
>
> The main reason I'm bringing this rant to this forum is to agree with
> Grant's recent Blahg about the over-the-top work that some bike manf's are
> doing with something along the lines of AI in order to insure that the FD
> gets positioned properly in relationship with the cassette cog in which the
> rear is positioned.  Grant's premise is that nothing could be simpler than
> shifting the FD back and forth and manually "trimming" it to accommodate
> whatever gear the rear happens to be in at the moment.  I couldn't agree
> more.  This "twist shift" business is bad enough in some respects for the
> RD, but couldn't be more of a of a disaster for the FD.  Why bring about
> yet another costly intervention that would be completely unnecessary if
> riders would just take the time to learn how to "feel an adjustment" into
> place instead of relying on some next generation gadget to do their work
> for them!  Could be DT shifters, barcons, stem shifters - doesn't matter as
> long as they require a bit of manual adjustment on the part of the rider.
>
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[RBW] Re: Searching for the National Collegiate cycling championships

[Patrick Moore]

Sheesh. Clock *running.*

On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 3:21 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... 18.14 miles averaging 13.21 mph with clock very much stopped for all
> the lollygagging and backtracking at the Balloon Park and elsewhere.
>

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[RBW] Re: Searching for the National Collegiate cycling championships

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and Leah: you really must give a good quality, light, and well set up
drop-bar road bike a try. Really, for modestly energetic riding there is,
IMO, nothing like a well designed drop bar (ie: Maes Parallel). If your new
road bike fit you as well as this bike fits me, you'd be twice as fast as I.

On Sun, May 5, 2024 at 3:21 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> A local news station reported yesterday (
> https://www.kob.com/new-mexico/new-mexico-to-host-usa-cycling-collegiate-road-national-championships-this-weekend/)
>   that,
> after the road race this morning there would be criteriums at the
> International Balloon Park, a nice ride on good paved trails easily
> accessible from my house. So early afternoon I rode out to see what I could
> find, which was no sign at all of any competitive cycling; only other
> Sunday recreational cyclists like me.
>
> But it was a nice ride. Warm -- about 80* -- partly cloudy (you
> flatlanders don't know how strong the sun feels at mid day at 5K+ feet --
> oven; with the shaded thermometer at the front door showing an air temp of
> 40*, I can sit outside on my back patio in the morning winter sun in a
> t-shirt if it's not windy), and I rode everyone's acknowledged best bicycle
> of all time, the '99 Joe Starck etc. Strong tailwind outbound so I could
> spin to warm up, then 9 miles home against the strong Southerly at 21 gusts
> to 32; 6+ of those in the hooks pushing the 76" gear (because we hard men
> don't bother to stop and move the chain to the 68' granny).
>
> But seriously, altogether a very nice ride: 18.14 miles averaging 13.21
> mph with clock very much stopped for all the lollygagging and backtracking
> at the Balloon Park and elsewhere. Cyclemeter recorded 27.31 mph as my
> fastest speed, which with a 76" gear would be 121 r's pee em, but on the
> return much slogging in the hooks at 30-40 r's pm.
>
> But even more seriously: I like riding into winds and up hills on fixed
> gears -- as long as the hills aren't too long or the headwind stretches too
> extended; 6-7 miles against the wind today was good; when it gusted, my
> left knee started to twinge as it has since 1970 when in complete and full
> ignorance I geared my very first from-scratch bike at 90". But thank God,
> the left (and right) knee remains healthy at 69. As for hills, I am too old
> to grunt a 70" (I've done 75") gear up 7 miles of Tramway, but I hope to
> get onto that hill again this year with the SA TF hub -- 75% underdrive for
> a 57" climbing gear and a direct *with no last* for comfortable spinning
> back downhill.
>
> Pictures show it happened or that I'm very good at Photoshop. Pic 1: I
> meandered my way toward some tents hoping that they would contain
> criteriums but, nope. Pic 2: the main building and exhibit hall.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
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>
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> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


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Re: [RBW] Sonoma Wine Country Century tomorrow! Anyone else?

[Patrick Moore]

Please post photos, of bike and bikes, route, countryside, and vintages,
and describe all in excessive detail.

The nearby delightfully libertarian (as to HOA-type building standards*;
the libertarian social and political philosophy is false) "horsey suburb,"
Corrales, hosts an annual wine tour, tho' only for NM and not for the far
more numerous and I daresay worthy CA wines. I've been tempted, but the
thought of riding a fixed gear home south against a strong afternoon
headwind while pleasantly lethargic under the influence of many, many
samples has made me hesitate; not to mention the traffic. How does one deal
with this?

*$2M "estates" with ancient, crumbling, 600 sq foot adobes and singlewides,
locally top-rated restaurants and burrito shacks, rich Anglo incomers and
Hispano farmers resident since the 17th century, ancient acequia trails and
Loma Largo blvd where one winter circa 2010 I saw a Euro pro team training
in prep for the Tour at 5K feet in cool, sunny weather.

On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 10:11 AM Pancake  wrote:

> The Charlie H Gallop prototype is heading out for 100 miles tomorrow in
> Santa Rosa, basket and rain and all. Anyone else going to be on the ride
> tomorrow?
> https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29272184
> I’ve done this once before (my only prior Century) and it was wonderful …
> but it didn’t include tomorrow’s predicted 1” of rain peaking just before
> the ride begins.
>
> Related to rain: I have a light rain resistant jacket, partial fenders
> (MudX in front and Portland folding in back), and wool socks … any other
> suggestions for how to keep a bit dry and to dry out while riding? There’s
> a gear drop off point about 1/3rd of the way through which is when the rain
> should be receding, so I can ditch some gear. I’m just curious how the bits
> under my shorts will fair, I’m optimistic a bit of wind and time will dry
> me out when possible. Definitely time to get out the Brooks seat cover too!
>
> Finally, I’ve never really “carb loaded” beyond having rice or pasta
> before a ride. But I bonked last weekend on a 50 mile ride (albeit without
> really eating much of anything before). Anyone have a preferred liquid carb
> filled drink so I don’t fill my body with just rice and corn flakes?
>
> Hope everyone gets a great ride in this weekend!
> Abe
>
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Re: [RBW] WTB/ Rear Rack Advice

[Patrick Moore]

Until I started getting customs made I always chose the Tubus Fly (it comes
in ss and titanium as well as in black powdercoat) because (1) it is rated
for 20 kg, (2) is it minimalist and very light (sub 15 grams, about the
weight of the chromo Matthews custom on the RBFD), and it fits frames
without  chainstay braze ons (uses a bracket that bolts to the brake pivot
bolt or to a bolt through the b-p-b hole in the brake bridge).

I've carried many 40 lb loads and up to ~50 lb on many Fys on flexy 531 and
alum frames with no problems, tho' short shopping trips and not global
tours on bad dirt roads. For that I'd choose the Tubus Cargo Evo rack,
which I also once used, only for my purposes it was grossly overbuilt.
Rated to 26 kg but *tested* to 40 kg -- I'll let others parse the
difference. Or perhas the Cargo Classic? I think Tubus have down-rated
their racks by a few kg since I last bought one.

The Ultima Thule and Ne Plus Ultra and entirely Sic Itur Ad Astra rack of
all of them bar none at all is the Tubus Airy that is made of shiny
titanium, weighs 360 grams, and is mfr rated to 26 kg; I think the
*deustche* means, "tested to 30 kg."


   - 26 kg | 57.3 lbs (getestet mit 30 kg*)
   <https://www.tubus.com/en/company#c424>


$375 on everyone's favorite, vendor-squeezing, discount retail platform.

If my "road bike for errands" were 700C I'd be sorely tempted, but in fact
it uses 559 wheels and sports a stainless steel Fly shortened by a frame
builder.



On Fri, May 3, 2024 at 10:34 AM Stephen Durfee  wrote:

> Looking for a rear rack for my trusty All Rounder, something that will
> support panniers for some summer excursions...perhaps something like the
> Shiny Rear Rack. Does anyone have an extra they would be looking to
> offload? Or, suggestion for something more appropriate?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Eric M.'s new video: Shop tour, favorite workshops, tool organization and my next bicycle build

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and I forwarded the video link to Jeremiah; he will appreciate it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Eric M.'s new video: Shop tour, favorite workshops, tool organization and my next bicycle build

[Patrick Moore]

Lovely garden, lovely shed, lovely workshop. Noted the trellises; will keep
in mind to support my trumpet vines.

I recall trying to start a garden -- various hot peppers, tomatoes -- in my
first summer, 2004, at my present house. Xeriscaped -- water is expensive!
-- but dug up sandy soil and fertilized and mulched in SE corner of yard
against typical cinderblock wall. No good; backyard is south, blasted by
violent summer 5K feet altitude summer sun; even covering the ~6'X6' garden
didn't help. This even tho' I'm literally 100' from the cottonwood bosque.
Next year tried big pots on porch; got a few stunted habaneros; gave up.
(OTOH, trumpet vines do just fine backed up against cinderblock walls in
blast-furnace sun, as long as you give them a bit of water 2X per week.)

I envy all y'all's moist, green landscapes -- until I go for a pleasant
ride at 2 pm in July at 102*F at 4% humidity.

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 8:41 PM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Wow, thanks for the kind words, Jim! Always a pleasure, sorry this one's
> so long. The uncut version was like 2 hours.
>
> On Sunday, April 28, 2024 at 11:32:09 AM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> So good, a pleasure to watch. Thanks for the great work, Eric!
>>
>> Check it out here:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMf-7Kq-g8k
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Favorite clip-in/flat pedal combo?

[Patrick Moore]

Corwin: tangent, but related: will you please post a photo or photos of
your Hon Solo?

I bought, modified, and rode one for several years back before my daughter
had her license (and took over my car), and when I had to chauffeur her
around. I'd put the HS in the boot of the compact, drive her to her
piano/drawing/skating lesson, and then go take a ride for the hour or so
wait.

I first set the HS up with a (Ritchey, IIRC) bullhorn, then with an
original-edition Moustache bar; neither were comfortable for more than a
few miles, but then I didn't ride the HS more than a few miles.

I geared it at about 70", and I fondly recall Catie's skating lessons at
the top of the long Tramway hill: I'd spin-out the HS downhill about 4
miles to the Sandia Indian casino, then stand and grunt it back up. Or I'd
take it down the adjacent neighborhoods and get my climbing in going up and
down steep residential streets.

But it was never a fully "comfortable" setup and I sold it on once Catie
could drive herself in my car.

On Sun, Apr 28, 2024 at 2:34 PM Corwin Zechar  wrote:

> Hi Glen -
>
> I have MKS Ezy pedals on my Dahon Hon Solo. Have not tried clipless. I
> imagine it would work well. The Ezys come off easy once you know the trick.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Corwin
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 1:42:16 PM UTC-7 Glen wrote:
>
>> Following on to this; has anyone here used the MKS ezy pedal system to
>> easily swap between flats and clipless?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 1:41:02 PM UTC-6 John Bokman wrote:
>>
>>> Rivsters:
>>>
>>> I've ridden many many years on Speedplay Frogs with great enjoyment.
>>> I've also ridden for years on flat pedals (MKS Sylvan Touring are my
>>> favorite) with great enjoyment.
>>>
>>> I'm now curious about trying something I thought I'd never try: A
>>> clipless-flat combo pedal.  Because there are times  - especially on longer
>>> rides - when I want more foot support than my flat pedals provide. (Yes,
>>> I've used larger flat pedals - VP Vice - and found no effective difference
>>> to my MKS Sylvan in this regard.)
>>>
>>> So for those of you who still ride clipless, and who in fact use a combo
>>> pedal: What's your favorite?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell (Roadini) Geometry

[Patrick Moore]

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 8:23 PM Jay  wrote:

> ... I measure setback on both bikes and the Fargo is coming out as saddle
> 5.5cm setback from BB, 7cm on the Roadini.
>

There's the reason for the difference. I've always (well, since Grant
taught me to do this 30 years ago) started assembly and fit with saddle
height, setback, and angle, then, after getting the saddle in place, put
the bar a more or less standard distance from and height below the saddle
nose. I do modify  bar reach and height for bikes used off road but my body
position is much the same on all my bikes even if my bar is higher but
further forward.

Sometimes a more reward position can be *more comfortable* because it takes
weight off your shoulders, etc, because when butt-back and bent forward
sufficiently your torso muscles carry more of the weight.

Of course, you have to decide what a good setback is for comfort (including
weight off your shoulders, arms, and hands) and power and handling -- also,
how you'll use the bike: see below -- but in my case bb setback is about
the same for all my bikes.

Peter Jon White has an excellent article on bike setup starting with saddle
setback: https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.php

... Now we get to what I think is the most important part of fitting a
bicycle, the fore-aft position of the saddle. Once you get this right,
everything else is easy. This position is determined more by how you intend
to use your bike than by anything else. If you look at a typical bike, the
saddle is behind the crank center, or bottom bracket. There's a frame tube
(the seat tube) running from the cranks to the saddle, and it's at an
angle. That angle partly determines the fore-aft position of the saddle
relative to the cranks and pedals. That fore-aft position determines how
your body is balanced on the bicycle. Your balance determines how
comfortable you are, and how efficiently you can pedal the bike.

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Re: [RBW] The 3x1 road bike. Anticipating some of your RoadUNO builds

[Patrick Moore]

On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 11:40 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... With horizontals or track ends and a good steel internal cam QR you
> could have yourself a very good time without the need for a lousy (and FWIW
> considerably less that I paid for my TF hub). A  44 X 17/20/24 would give
> you 70", 60", and 50", a good spread with relatively unobtrusive hardware
> and bulk.
>

Well, not quite, as you'd need very long dropouts/track ends indeed to
accommodate 7 teeth: almost a good *usable* Inch of axle travel -- usable
travel is not at all the same as theoretical travel. And as for a chain
tensioner: with a single rear cog and 3 rings your tensioner would not have
to move laterally as the chain was shifted, while 2 or 3 cogs would require
chain tensioner re-alignment. So I've argued myself into agreeing with the
3X1 idea. Only, the ideal system for 3 wide ratio gears is the IGH.

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Re: [RBW] The 3x1 road bike. Anticipating some of your RoadUNO builds

[Patrick Moore]

We had a similar conversation back in February and, among the topic
discussed was, why 3X1 instead of 1X3? Bill pointed out that commercially
available 3 speed fws of good quality with huge tooth gaps are hard to
find, whereas anyone can find a triple crank.

But I keep coming back to theoretical efficiencies: IIRC, the gearing
effect of tooth jumps in back are more or less double what they are in
front. So the question is, how to get just 2 or 3 big jumps in back without
a IGH.

Question: I've never followed BMX, but IIRC I've read of 2-speed BMX
freehubs; was that really a thing? If so, perhaps that would be the ideal
low-cog-count/big-ratio-jump system. And then there are those packages of
spacers and ss HG-freehub-compatible kits that allow you to use just 1 --
or a few -- cogs on your 7-8-9-etc.-speed freehub.

Long ago I asked Phil Wood & Co. if they'd build me a fixed hub that would
accept 3 sprockets. They replied, "Sure! Figure on about $400" -- this in
circa 2000 dollars which per the DoL Inflation Calculator is ~$740 in 2024
monopoly money. With horizontals or track ends and a good steel internal
cam QR you could have yourself a very good time without the need for a
lousy (and FWIW considerably less that I paid for my TF hub). A  44 X
17/20/24 would give you 70", 60", and 50", a good spread with relatively
unobtrusive hardware and bulk.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Used but good ASC hub for $139 shipped from England, with usable shifter

[Patrick Moore]

And sorry for the upside-down shell; trigger is rightside-up.

On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 3:25 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 3:11 PM Ian A  wrote:
>
>> 1) Thank you for the correct use of "could not care less", instead of the
>> incorrect "could care less".
>
>
> I confess that I caught myself using the wrong phrase, but catch it I did.
>
>
>> 2) We are still awaiting closure, from the original thread about this
>> exact hub, whether it is the genuine article.
>>
>
> It is genuine; at least, this is the genuine shell, driver, and cog and
> indicator spindle. Might have AW innards, but again seller has vg rating.
>
>
>> 3) Wil this hub be rebuilt and reconditioned and if so, who will do
>> rebuild?
>>
>
> Right now it is meant as a backup to the NOS ASC in use on the Matthews
> Riv clone.
>
> I plan to open it up and clean and re-assemble, after practicing on a
> donated AW hub and on my long-unused S3X hub. By that time it might be too
> late to catch a crook, but I think I'll chance it. I've got until the end
> of May to send it to Seattle to get Aaron's review.
>
>
>> 4) Pictures or it didn't happen (even if it did).
>>
>
> Attached, with a photo of the NDS and DS of the NOS one currently in use.
>
>>
>> IanA Alberta Canada
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 1:33:36 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> I know that this list could not care less about hub gears, but I'm
>>> chuffed, as they say. I got a  used but still vg (per the seller with high
>>> rating; must disassemble and see for myself; has 50 or 60 years of dried
>>> lubricant inside) Holy Grail of hub gears, a 1950 ASC, missing proprietary
>>> shifter, but with the sole other SA shifter that can be modified (and may
>>> have been modified already; have question in to seller) for the peculiar
>>> cable pull required by this hub.
>>>
>>> It is a backup/eventual parts donor for the NOS one currently in use in
>>> the Matthews Riv Road errand clone that was modified by Aaron in Seattle
>>> with a modern, 32-hole aluminum shell (with properly modern thick flanges!)
>>> and threaded driver (instead of proprietary 12-spline driver for very rare
>>> 1/8" proprietary SA cogs) for either Surly fixed cog (currently 17 t 3/32")
>>> or ss freewheel. I've been riding this hub instead of the earlier AM
>>> because it has better ratios: direct/high/3rd, 90%/underdrive/2nd, and
>>> 75%/underdrive/1st, for 72"/65"/54" instead of the AM's freewheel 75"/115%
>>> overdrive/third, 65" direct/second, and 56" 86.54%/underdrive/first. The
>>> 3rd-2nd gap is better on the ASC.
>>>
>>> And it's all silver! With aluminum shell.
>>>
>>> Just made a short but very pleasant detoured grocery run, carrying home
>>> 39 lb in front and rear Ortlieb roll-tops.
>>>
>>> I know you don't care, but I do and I had to crow.
>>>
>>> Over and out.
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Used but good ASC hub for $139 shipped from England, with usable shifter

[Patrick Moore]

I know that this list could not care less about hub gears, but I'm chuffed,
as they say. I got a  used but still vg (per the seller with high rating;
must disassemble and see for myself; has 50 or 60 years of dried lubricant
inside) Holy Grail of hub gears, a 1950 ASC, missing proprietary shifter,
but with the sole other SA shifter that can be modified (and may have been
modified already; have question in to seller) for the peculiar cable pull
required by this hub.

It is a backup/eventual parts donor for the NOS one currently in use in the
Matthews Riv Road errand clone that was modified by Aaron in Seattle with a
modern, 32-hole aluminum shell (with properly modern thick flanges!) and
threaded driver (instead of proprietary 12-spline driver for very rare 1/8"
proprietary SA cogs) for either Surly fixed cog (currently 17 t 3/32") or
ss freewheel. I've been riding this hub instead of the earlier AM because
it has better ratios: direct/high/3rd, 90%/underdrive/2nd, and
75%/underdrive/1st, for 72"/65"/54" instead of the AM's freewheel 75"/115%
overdrive/third, 65" direct/second, and 56" 86.54%/underdrive/first. The
3rd-2nd gap is better on the ASC.

And it's all silver! With aluminum shell.

Just made a short but very pleasant detoured grocery run, carrying home 39
lb in front and rear Ortlieb roll-tops.

I know you don't care, but I do and I had to crow.

Over and out.

-- 

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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services

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*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

tem. I rarely get into the drops. With the
>>> Albastache and Mustache, I find I have more riding positions.
>>>
>>> Have fun on your road bike, whatever you get.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>> Corwin
>>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:07:47 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way
>>>> here - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered.
>>>>
>>>> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says
>>>> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands
>>>> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions?
>>>>
>>>> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of
>>>> the bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar
>>>> offers?
>>>>
>>>> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars.
>>>> It felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or
>>>> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of
>>>> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large
>>>> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>>>>
>>>> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right
>>>> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that
>>>> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a
>>>> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up
>>>> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find
>>>> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative
>>>> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is
>>>> *more* comfortable, *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic
>>>> riding than other setups; at least, I've always found it so, and there's a
>>>> reason why the traditional road bike was developed so quickly after the
>>>> chain-driven safety was invented and why it has remained largely the same
>>>> for going on for 150 years.
>>>>
>>>> Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have
>>>> a road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give
>>>> one a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit"
>>>> like that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently
>>>> spec'd and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, *I don't,* --
>>>> get with any other sort of bike.
>>>>
>>>> Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out
>>>> for a used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final
>>>> and perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am
>>>> guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning
>>>> cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite
>>>> bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned
>>>> 2 other Riv Road customs plus a Ram (and the Sam) not to mention many other
>>>> road bikes, and I've sold them all on to finally get what for me is belated
>>>> perfection in the 2 Matthews customs  -- tho' these used the Rivs as
>>>> general design templates.
>>>>
>>>> I rode the gofast Riv fixie road bike to and from church today with the
>>>> usual annoying NE winds while inbound N and E and the usual SW winds on
>>>> return N and W. For the umpteen millionth time I remarked to myself at how
>>>> pleasant it was to be able to drop "intuitively" into the hooks when
>>>> turning into a wind, or to grab the long (Maes Parallel) ramps when
>>>> pushing, butt-back and elbows bent, up an incline, or sitting up and
>>>> holding the flats or the flat/ramp transition and spinning when the wind
>>>> became a tailwind.
>>>>
>>>> I've certainly passed my speed demon days, bu

Re: [RBW] Re: TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

I'm watching TPUs, RH TPUs in particular, for possible use if they find a
workable sealant, and this fails to inspire confidence, particularly as RH
claims strong metal valves as a competitive advantage. But presumably RH
will replace or refund for the defective tubes?

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 10:51 AM Ted Durant  wrote:

> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 7:02:25 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>
> FYI - The RH instructions say to inflate slowly and immediately deflate
> the tubes completely after the tire pops into position, then reinflate.
>
>
> Well, I put them on my Riv Road today, was very careful with the
> installation, and had the same result. One of the tubes broke at the valve
> stem immediately on inflation in the tire. The rims are narrow Fir, and the
> tires are a pretty tight fit. I used levers to remove the tire but was able
> to reinstall without levers. New tires with only a few rides on them.
>
> So, I've needed 6 tubes to get 4 tires going. That makes the economics a
> little harder to justify. It also makes carrying a new one as a spare a bit
> of Russian roulette.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Rivendells in South Korea

[Patrick Moore]

It is very definitely permitted to post such interesting videos here;
thanks for doing so. I particularly enjoyed (out of the 2 I've watched) the
grocery shopping one. + 1 for riding a Riv to make mundane chores into
modest and wholly appealing adventures.

Please tell us where you are from, what you do, and why you are living in
Seoul?

Also, please tell us who makes your panniers and what the model is.

I do almost all my errands and commuting by bike (not that there's a great
deal to do, but =/< 600 miles per year on my car for the last many years),
but while these rides traverse pleasant routes they're not the sort that
merits videotaping. If I were say in Old Town Albuquerque it might be
different.

Others in interesting locales, please post videos of your own errand rides.

Patrick Moore, who lived in Old Town Quebec and remembers Empress
(Victoria!) market in Karachi where flies outnumbered (the thousands of)
people by many orders of magnitude..


On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:10 AM Marcus Gomersall <
probablyridingmyb...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,
>
> I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of my
> Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some people
> on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks of my
> Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly
> showcasing what cycling in Korea is like.
>
> I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - YouTube
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQEDB9BVgbMKF8gaOW75WGQ>
>
> Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!
>
> Marcus
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Evening Spring Ride on the Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Welcome back, congratulations on the Clem, and thanks for the binocular
suggestion. I lean toward the Carson since its price is more in line with
my very occasional and casual use, and because it's so compact.

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 11:09 AM Gordon Stam  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Gordon Stam here. I used to post on this forum, or one like it (I
> recognize a few names) back in the mid 00s after I bought my Romulus. In
> the intervening years I drifted away from cycling (I developed a motorcycle
> habit) but I'm back with the purchase of a 59cm Clem Smith Jr frame which
> I've built into a parts bin special. I've been lurking for a month or so
> but this thread has three touchstones for me: the Clem, the Central Coast,
> and binoculars. Nice shots of your Clem in the trees Chris. I went to
> school at Cal Poly many years ago,
>
> ...
>
> Regarding binoculars check out the Maven C2 7x28. Maven makes good binos
> but a wee bit more expensive than those Carson. A better bino though. As
> far as taking them on a ride I just loop mine over my shoulder bandolier
> style (see below). With these upright bikes they ride against your chest,
> or side, pretty unobtrusively and are ready for viewing at a moments
> notice. I use paracord for a strap with a couple of slip knots for length
> adustment. This is the Maven B3 6x30. A step up from the C series but a
> right dandy unit. Costs less than a high end wheelset though!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Chris, good to know that I can probably ride a size that takes 700C
wheels. This information goes to the archive. Yes, if I get a Clem it would
be to use it with sweep-back or "tourist" bars of some sort.


On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:45 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> If Grant can ride a 64cm with an 85cm PBH
> <https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/staff-bikes/grants-64cm-clem-l-85cm-pbh>,
> you should be fine on a 59cm frame (assuming you can do so without drop
> bars).
>
> I'm happily on the 64cm with an 89cm PBH; I used to ride a 62cm Rivendell
> Road Standard, a 61 Bleriot, and a 60cm Bombadil.
>
> - Chris
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 2:55:36 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Dave. I think I might fall between sizes, between the 52 and the
>> 59 and, inclined to go small, the 52 alas is spec'd for 650B instead of my
>> preferred 700C. But perhaps a 59 would be alright as long as I don't want a
>> drop bar.* I don't know my PBH but a 60 X 56 c-c fits perfectly with 9 cm
>> stem and fistful of seatpost -- 4/3 scale Asian build with more of height
>> in torso.
>>
>> But if the 52 and 650B, good to know that it can take ~58s with fenders.
>>
>> * And my daydreams of a Clem have it built with some sort of sweepback
>> bar, but that too is a question as every bar I've used except standard
>> drops hurts my left palm.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:25 AM DavidP  wrote:
>>
>>> ... Patrick, the Clem can do tires up to 2.6 or ~2.25 fendered. The
>>> Platypus can do ~2.1-2.2"; mine's running VO 63mm fenders over those 2"
>>> GravelKings.
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

As someone else said, skip the scruples and just try drop bars. They're
*comfortable*, which is (I assert) the reason why they've been used for
well over 100 years.

Riders don't use drops because their bars are positioned far too low; the
hoods position on modern bikes is like the hooks position on "traditional"
road bikes.

I've not used Albastaches but I've used many, many, Moustache bars and
nope, not like drops. You might end up hating drops, but please try a few.

Patrick "38 cm Maes Parallel road, 42 cm Maes Parallel dirt" Moore

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 3:07 PM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> I promise not to be offended by a great wave of advice coming my way here
> - I have asked for it and you all have kindly delivered.
>
> Ok, ok….I really will consider drop bars. But I do wonder…everyone says
> they offer so many hand positions; but I only see people with their hands
> on the hoods. Are riders really utilizing different hand positions?
>
> Also, I saw a pic of an albastache with brake levers in the middle of the
> bar. Would this mimic the freedom of hand position changes a drop bar
> offers?
>
> I practiced tonight on my ride by grabbing the front of my Billie bars. It
> felt nice to be stretched out like that, but with no access to brakes or
> shifters from there I didn’t like to stay long. Unnerving.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 21, 2024, at 4:54 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of
> advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large
> amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.
>
> I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right
> road bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that
> you enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a
> perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up
> traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find
> with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative
> positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is *more* 
> comfortable,
> *more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic riding than other setups;
> at least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason why the traditional
> road bike was developed so quickly after the chain-driven safety was
> invented and why it has remained largely the same for going on for 150
> years.
>
> Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a
> road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one
> a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like
> that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd
> and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, *I don't,* -- get
> with any other sort of bike.
>
> Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for
> a used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and
> perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am
> guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning
> cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite
> bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned
> 2 other Riv Road customs plus a Ram (and the Sam) not to mention many other
> road bikes, and I've sold them all on to finally get what for me is belated
> perfection in the 2 Matthews customs  -- tho' these used the Rivs as
> general design templates.
>
> I rode the gofast Riv fixie road bike to and from church today with the
> usual annoying NE winds while inbound N and E and the usual SW winds on
> return N and W. For the umpteen millionth time I remarked to myself at how
> pleasant it was to be able to drop "intuitively" into the hooks when
> turning into a wind, or to grab the long (Maes Parallel) ramps when
> pushing, butt-back and elbows bent, up an incline, or sitting up and
> holding the flats or the flat/ramp transition and spinning when the wind
> became a tailwind.
>
> I've certainly passed my speed demon days, but there remains a very
> distinct pleasure in riding energetically -- for me, particularly on hills
> and against winds -- on the perfectly set up road bike, and I have enough
> experience to know that I would not enjoy this nearly as much on anything
> else.
>
> *Bon chance!*
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 1:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell
>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the
&

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

+1 for this advice. Also, +1 for Bill as docent and road bike purchase
middleman.

On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 1:23 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:12:20 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
> I am, right now, leaning toward a Gallup bike but will keep reading and
> learning. And right now, I’m heading out to do Tabatas training. I had to
> look it up. Promises to be the most miserable 4 minutes of my day.
>
> Wow, first we hear you are road bike curious, now you are doing tabata
> workouts. Leah is going super hard core on us.
>
> My 2 cents worth ... "road bike", as opposed to what you currently ride
> and love, is first and foremost about riding position. FWIW, my
> recommendation is to skip past Albastache and Mustache and go straight to
> drop bars. Start with them relatively high and close, so when your hands
> are on the tops you feel like your back is relaxed and comfy. Bernard
> Hinault, I think, said you should feel like you're playing piano on the
> tops. You then have the curves on top, where your hands are a bit wider
> apart and slightly forward, and your back should still be comfy. Then you
> go forward to the brake hoods. Now you should feel like you're more forward
> than you would be on your current bikes. But, if you're riding at a hard
> enough effort (we're not talking super hard here), the force on the pedals
> should be carrying enough of your weight that you're not having to hold
> yourself up on your hands. Next you go below the brake hoods to the
> farthest forward part of the drops. This is the speedy aero position. You
> won't have a low, flat back here until you've lowered your stem/bars quite
> a bit. But you should have a flat back and you should be putting a fair
> amount of force into the pedals. Finally, there are the flat parts of the
> drops, with your hands back a bit closer to you, which are a "cruising"
> location for me (and right next to my bar end shifters), low enough to be
> efficient but not fully stretched out. I've recently read comments from
> "racers" that if you spend any amount of time down there your bars are too
> high. Well, my bars are certainly too high by their standards, but mine are
> set up for me to be comfortable in every spot. Very important: in EVERY
> position you should not be gripping the bar or brake hood tightly, you
> should have a very loose grip and not be bearing too much weight there. I
> typically am very slightly pulling up on the brake hoods or drops to
> counteract the pedaling force of the opposite leg. Also, you should ALWAYS
> have at least a slight bend in your elbows in every position. If you are
> locking your elbows something is wrong with the position and you're doing
> bad things to your wrist and shoulders and neck.
>
> General rule of thumb for starting out, have the tops of the bars maybe an
> inch above saddle height or, if you're already pretty flexible in the heaps
> and low back, level with the saddle. Put the back of an elbow at the front
> of the saddle and stretch your finger tips toward the handlebars. They
> should just touch the back of the handlebars at the stem. Maybe a little
> closer if you're tight, a little farther if you're flexible. Somebody
> recommended Noodle bars, which I heartily endorse, as that's what I have on
> most of my bikes. I like them because 1) the curves are generous 2) there's
> a little rise in the top curve, making them very comfy in that area) and 3)
> there's a fair amount of reach and drop, so you have a good range of
> positions. That last part is key for me on long rides. Sometimes I'm riding
> hard and need the long and low positions. Sometimes I'm taking it easy and
> need the high and near positions.
>
> I won't opine much on "which bike", because once you figure out your fit
> criteria, any bike that allows you to have that position will work fine. I
> have my Sam Hillbornes set up almost identically to my custom Waterford ST
> and Rivendell Road, except on the Riv Road the handlebars are a bit farther
> away and lower.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for road bikes and cataract surgery.

Patrick Moore, who has (has had?) both and now rides without glasses or
contacts with implanted plastic lenses.

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 7:15 PM Leah Peterson 
wrote:

> Yes, George, 81cm , and here’s where I have to put a plug in for the
> cataract surgery. I prep those patients and they are my favorite surgeries
> because they are SO EASY and the results SO immediate that if you have been
> putting it off, run, don’t walk to the ophthalmologist. An IV is not
> required, you don’t even get undressed, there is no pain, it is 15 minutes
> and BOOM, you’re done.
>
> Ok, back to bikes…
>
> On Apr 20, 2024, at 5:12 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> Ryan - sorry.  I don't always see things as clearly with my aged
> ready-for-cataract surgery eyeballs.  Nevertheless, it bears repeating.
>
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:06:11 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>
>> 81 PBH was mentioned
>>
>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:04:52 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> There ya go Leah!...Put yourself in Bill's more-than-capable hands and
>>> you won't go wrong!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>> Leah
>>>>
>>>> My previous Roadeo was set up as a straight-ahead stripped down road
>>>> bike, and I would have used that anyplace anybody rides a road bike.  After
>>>> selling that, and while I was waiting for my new pink Roadeo, I used my
>>>> Black Mountain Road in that stripped down road bike slot, and that bike was
>>>> the deal of the century, IMO.  The RoadeoRosa revealed itself to be more
>>>> than just a stripped down road bike: It has insisted to become my 700c
>>>> randonneuse.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I did a very fast build on a Leo Roadini, last batch, and my
>>>> best-ever brevet time was on that bike.  So I think it's doable.  The newer
>>>> batch with its long reach brakes feels less "roadie".
>>>>
>>>> I can sympathize with the desire to run a Riv, but I'd also recommend
>>>> casting a wider net, because smaller frame sized used road bikes can be had
>>>> at a really good price.  Maybe if you start trolling Michigan craigslist
>>>> and the next time I'm out in Wayne County for work I can come be your
>>>> personal shopper.  :)
>>>>
>>>> Anything that can be set up with drop bars can probably also be set up
>>>> with an albastache build, which may ease you in.  Also, having a
>>>> placeholder road bike could free you up to put a deposit on a Roadeo and
>>>> then you'll have both!
>>>>
>>>> Do let me know if you want more advice
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding
>>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell
>>>>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the
>>>>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is
>>>>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great
>>>>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be
>>>>> ideal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a
>>>>> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what
>>>>> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before.
>>>>> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does
>>>>> take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach
>>>>> stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out
>>>>> of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate
>>>>> was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed
>>>>> it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m
>>>>> the youngest and probably the most fit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Leah
>>>>>
>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

I generally look up to Garth's advice, but I'll contradict him here: the
point is not level or sloping top tube but saddle to bar relationship. My
"ideal" level tt/fist of sp size is 60X56 c-c but the most perfectest fit
of all is on that too-much described '99 Riv custom that has a 57 c-c st,
upsloping 57 cm tt with modestly extended ht, since this lets me get the
saddle in the right place and then wrt to the saddle, get the bar in the
right place. I've gotten near-perfect drop bar setups on miniscule 46 cm
frames with massive 58+ cm tts (mtb frames) tho' 46 and 58 are hardly ideal.

Second, yes, less air resistance is a great benefit of a lower and drop
bar, but there is another that IME is equally great, that you bring into
play additional muscles when you bend over. I find this every time I "slip"
into the hooks when turning into a headwind or slide way back on the saddle
when reaching an incline.



On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:38 PM Garth  wrote:

> Hooray for you Leah ! :-)
>
> I think a level top tube would suit you better in the long run as given a
> good fit, you'll be able to have a good starting point for bar height. Not
> too high, not too low. You're obliviously fit and flexible, so for road
> riding use that to your advantage, so to speak. Less air resistance, which
> is what you're running into, literally. From experience,  sloping TT's are
> fine if you want to the bars quite high, but if you want them at a more
> saddle level or below you may not be able to go low enough. It depends on
> the frame of course.
>
> A Homer before the TT's were sloped would also work as road bike in
> addition to the Roadeo. They were technically 1.5 degrees, not enough to
> care about given a proper fit.  Also Ramboullett frames would work.
>
> You have such a good level of fitness and sensibilities that you'll be
> fine, it'll work out as it comes.
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

This is going to be a fun thread. Please don't take a great volume of
advice as condescending; I think that this thread will elicit a very large
amount of love for road bikes as a distinct genus of bicycle.

I think you very particularly will benefit a great deal from the right road
bike and that once you get things basically sorted you will find that you
enjoy it immensely for the kind of riding you describe. There is a
perfection of fit and feel and a real pleasure in riding a well set up
traditional road bike -- I don't mean racing bike -- that you don't find
with other combinations of frame, saddle, bar, and their relative
positions. Really, this sort of setup on the right sort of frame is
*more* comfortable,
*more* natural, *more* pleasant for energetic riding than other setups; at
least, I've always found it so, and there's a reason why the traditional
road bike was developed so quickly after the chain-driven safety was
invented and why it has remained largely the same for going on for 150
years.

Note: I don't say that *everyone* who rides energetically should have a
road bike, but everyone who does so and can try ought at least to give one
a try. Again, there is an efficiency and comfort -- really, a "fit" like
that of a custom suit or perfect tool -- offered by an intelligently spec'd
and set up road bike that, you don't -- or at least, *I don't,* -- get with
any other sort of bike.

Me, based on my experience, I'd certainly start by keeping my eye out for a
used Roadeo or Riv Road or LongLow or Ram or Heron. But for the final and
perfect version, I'd not close my mind a priori to other makes. I am
guessing, but I would not be surprised if, after your usual rapid learning
cycle, this time with a road bike, you end up with a custom. My favorite
bike of all time out of several scores is a custom Riv Road, but I've owned
2 other Riv Road customs plus a Ram (and the Sam) not to mention many other
road bikes, and I've sold them all on to finally get what for me is belated
perfection in the 2 Matthews customs  -- tho' these used the Rivs as
general design templates.

I rode the gofast Riv fixie road bike to and from church today with the
usual annoying NE winds while inbound N and E and the usual SW winds on
return N and W. For the umpteen millionth time I remarked to myself at how
pleasant it was to be able to drop "intuitively" into the hooks when
turning into a wind, or to grab the long (Maes Parallel) ramps when
pushing, butt-back and elbows bent, up an incline, or sitting up and
holding the flats or the flat/ramp transition and spinning when the wind
became a tailwind.

I've certainly passed my speed demon days, but there remains a very
distinct pleasure in riding energetically -- for me, particularly on hills
and against winds -- on the perfectly set up road bike, and I have enough
experience to know that I would not enjoy this nearly as much on anything
else.

*Bon chance!*


On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 1:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell
> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the
> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is
> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great
> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be
> ideal.
>
> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a
> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what
> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before.
> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>
> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does take
> a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach stem
> which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out of me.
> I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate was in
> the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed it was a
> hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m the
> youngest and probably the most fit.
>
> Leah
>
> --
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> .
>


-- 

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Rene Herse makes their TPU tubes very slightly thicker -- adding ~3 grams
per IIRC -- to ensure resistance to heat from rim brakes. $33 per tube,
tho'.

Me, I'm going to wait until RH come up with a suitable sealant, apparently
Orange Seal does not work with them, and be they more flat resistant than
butyl, they'll certainly not be goathead-proof.

As for patches, someone recently describe successfully using standard
glueless patches on TPU tubes.

While my extralight RH tires (Elk Pass, Naches Pass) ride superbly with
ultra-thin butyl (plus Orange Seal regular formula), I'd not pass up even
better ride quality with TPUs once the goathead problem is solved.

FWIW, I recently saw an Amazon offer of a pair of 700C TPUs *with metal
valve stems* that, says RH, avoid the frustrating leaks of plastic valves,
plus 4 patches for IIRC $25 but I could not find that page just now.



On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 5:25 AM Brian Turner  wrote:

> Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the
> impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume
> due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t
> really have the right application for them in my stable.
>
> Brian
> Lex KY
>
> On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm
> knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up
> with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes
> I've ever used.
>
> Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route,
> bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My
> first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a
> tubeless setup.
>
> Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given
> the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them
> (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch
> satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality?
>
>  I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels -
> but that wasn't my main objective.
>
> Steve
>
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---

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Re: [RBW] Rack(s) for Clem

[Patrick Moore]

I've used various Tubus racks on wide-stayed frames and, because they are
tubular steel, they can be spread without fear of damage. Also, Tubus makes
various little fitments that allow you to attach a rack to frames that
might otherwise interfere with ordinary attachment hardware and methods.

As a plus, Tubus racks have very high load ratings; for years I carried
very heavy rear loads on very light Flys.

Patrick "owned very many Tubus racks; currently Tubus stainless steel Fly
modified by S Bilenky for 26"-wheel Matthews commuter/errand custom" Moore

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 6:16 AM Igor  wrote:

> What racks do folks like for their Clem? I am selling my campee racks
> because they are not a good fit on the wider-dropouts of a Clem, and I'd
> like something simpler for rear.
>
> 1 for my wife, 1 for me (We both will have a Clem soon...orange one coming
> for me :D )
>
> I am looking at the RB14 and also the Rivendell Big Rack. I'm probably OK
> with just a saddle bag, and she may want panniers, so I figure the Big Rack
> for her, but maybe some other options out there to consider?
>
> Thanks!
>
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[RBW] AliExpress 10 sp spacers -- individually wrapped! [Was: 10 speed spacers: source found, but now confusion and question]

[Patrick Moore]

Update on this for anyone who cares. I ordered 10 each (1 extra in case of
loss) of 2mm, 2.18mm, and 2.35 mm spacers from AliExpress per Garth's
suggestion; thanks again, Garth.

The upshot after much soul (and web) searching is that *Shimano* 10sp cogs
are 1.6mm thick and take 2.35mm spacers, but *Miche* 10sp cogs are 1.8 mm
thick in the body -- 1.6 mm in the teeth -- and take 2mm spacers.

I had built my #2-wheel for the Matthews "road bike for dirt" of Shimano
cogs but used Miche spacers and, for the most part, it all works very well
-- 11 sp chain on 10 sp cassette -- but when the chain is on the 18 t cog,
a very much used cruising cog, precise chain adjustment is more finicky and
requires more attention to trimming.

So I will replace the 2.0s with, probably the proper Shimano-width 2.35s,
but I might try the 2.18s which I guess    are for 11 sp
Shimano cassettes? -- simply because the 2.0s have worked so well except
for that 18 to cog.

Finally, I placed the order on 4/05 and exactly 2 weeks later the passle of
cogs appeared in my mailbox.

$30 US and change for 30 spacers + shipping + NM or ABQ tax.

The cogs are all aluminum and a very pretty scarlet, and they are very
minimally cut and make the stock 2.0 Shimano (I think) silver aluminum
spacers look big and clumsy. And each of the 30 received was individually
wrapped; I guess for ease of sorting.

In case you were anxiously fretting about all this 

I had earlier ordered a passle of 10 sp Shimano cogs to build up 14-28 10
sp cassettes, and with these spacers, I'm a convert to AliExpress for
cheap, decent small parts.




On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:49 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Re-threading this:
>
> Thanks, Garth; you're fingers are obviously more deft than mine.
>
> But a question, because now I'm confused (per other thread): how wide are
> Shimano 10 sp spacers?
>
> You say 2.35, Sheldon says 2.35mm, mine measure consistent 2.04 mm -- the
> red plastic ones I ordered from Cycle Clinic (expressly for 10 sp
> cassettes) in 2020. *And * I found a half-dozen alum spacers in my bin
> that measure a consistent 2.0 mm.
>
> So: is 2.04 -- 2.0 the 11 speed spacer?
>
> The 14-28 10 sp cassette, as well as the 13-25, both use the red 2.04 mm
> spacers with an 11 sp chain and it all shifts wonderfully.
>
> *SO:* please tell me what I want!
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 11:28 AM Garth  wrote:
>
>> I case you come up empty here Patrick, there's aliexpress wholesale
>> website. I've ordered from the website from various companies without any
>> issues.
>> https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-10-speed-cassette-spacers-2.35mm.html.
>> You can also get spare cogs there.
>> https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-10-speed-cassette-cogs.html
>>
>> If anyone made an 7-speed freehub, and it didn't make noise, I'd buy some
>> and make my own cassettes.
>>
>
>

-- 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Evening Spring Ride on the Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Dave, I've looked up the Carson and it appears readily available
for $33. It's on my "To Buy" list.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 5:08 PM DavidP  wrote:

> "Palm sized" is how I'd describe the Carson MiniScout 7x18 I take along on
> trail rides and other rides when I don't expect to be using them much or
> are too rough to bring more expensive binoculars. Tiny, expendable, very
> small eye relief, but surprisingly decent handling for the size.
>
> A 6x18 monocular is smaller but the bins give a better view.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 6:35:55 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Yes; please keep them coming.
>>
>> Aside, to all: suggestions for a usable but inexpensive, small, and
>> easily stowable binocular or monocular for very casual sightings while
>> riding around? For some reason I lost or tossed a nice palm-size binocular
>> and I'd like to replace with with something that easily fits into a rear
>> jersey pocket.
>>
>>
>> Patrick "I see a Clem in my future, but only after fettling the new M 1:1
>> knobby wheelset and the beater Libertas build" Moore
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 8:42 AM DavidP  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Chris - very much enjoyed your ride report and always great to
>>> see photos!
>>>
>>> I also like to bring binos on bike rides, and find a stem bag is a great
>>> way to have them easily accessible (requires folding/pocket bins - I use a
>>> pair of Bushnell Legend 10x25 for this).
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 1:51:56 AM UTC-4 Chris Halasz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I took advantage of the intermission in rains here on California’s
>>>> Central Coast for a short and easy trail ride this evening.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd started running again and enjoying something like a 10k loop along
>>>> this trail for the past year, and recently wondered why I never bother to
>>>> take a bike here: it's a quicker way to grab the binos and do some
>>>> occasional birding. A Clem seemed like a good candidate for stepping off in
>>>> sketchy sections, and for portaging with its low top tube.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This was its first ride into the trees!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The trees seemed to be enjoying the frogs making happy noise in the
>>>> creek, the air was cool, not much breeze, and the (new to me) Clem cruised
>>>> nicely over the winter’s leaves, the drying trails, and lots of exposed
>>>> rock from a generously wet winter. Shall I ride the bike when I go
>>>> hear Suzanne Simard speak in a couple weeks?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_1128.jpeg]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_1132.jpeg]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_1137.jpeg]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope you enjoy the photos as much as I enjoyed the (short) ride,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>> --
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>


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Re: [RBW] Rivendells with tubulars

[Patrick Moore]

Yeah, Bill is always mean to me; I'm used to it.

Bill: Idle curiosity, that's all. I read Jan Heine somewhere saying that
very good modern clinchers are actually faster than good tubulars and I
wondered if anyone has ridden both and can compare them from personal
experience. There was a time when I toyed with the idea of trying tubulars,
perhaps on that very Libertas, but I'm so happy with the great clinchers
from Schwalbe and RH and Soma that I really don't have much motivation to
do that.

Libertas: Still need to take it to my brother's house to get a better idea
of how fat a tire it will take in the different diameters.The frame is no
good to me for the use I'd last planned for it -- an allrounder beater that
can ride on the firmer (= shallower sand) ditchbank roads, which requires a
minimum of 38 mm and better 42. The frame cannot take 622X38s in front or
rear; it won't take 559 X 50s, and I have to figure out if it will take 584
X 42s or even 38s.

I may do a little impromptu vise-work on the inside of the rear stays 
 we'll see.

On Fri, Apr 19, 2024 at 9:26 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I don't think it's cynical or aggressive, I'm just trying to get the
> context of Patrick Moore's tubular-curiosity.
>
> Lots of people read the RBW group because it's something to read that
> generates interesting stuff.  The majority of the users are lurkers and
> that's perfectly OK
> Lots of people pick up info on one Google Group board and then insert it
> into another where they think it can be helpful.  That's also perfectly OK
> Some people are just lifelong learners and want to learn everything there
> is to know about bicycles, even the stuff they'd never buy.  That's also
> fine.
> Some people want to gather info about a specific project on the horizon,
> and having that target in mind can help focus the exchange
> Finally, Patrick Moore has been sitting on a frame set, with a 5-year-long
> narrative of intents to build it.  That's the only machine in his
> possession that I know of that could feasibly "take" sew-ups.  I excitedly
> asked about that.
>
> I think those are five very different and perfectly reasonable motives,
> and could help generate responses that get the asker what they want.  Maybe
> you picked up cynicism or aggressiveness because you suspect Patrick Moore
> and I are strangers.  That is not the case.  We go back over a decade.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 8:23:55 PM UTC-7 exliontamer wrote:
>
>> That's a very cynical & aggressive response to that question.
>>
>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 7:26:27 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> "interested to hear how..."  to what end?  Just so you have something to
>>> read?  So you can pick up a smart comment to re-use in another forum
>>> later?  Just as an academic consideration about "Bicycle"?  Or for some
>>> practical application that you are personally considering?  Are you
>>> thinking about setting up *"that Libertas" * with tubulars?
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 2:58:29 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll be interested to hear how users of both compare the ride and
>>>> "feel" of tubulars to clinchers with tubes and tubeless clinchers.* Is it
>>>> true that modern supple clinchers can roll better than equivalent tubulars?
>>>> With tubes or only tubeless?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * I realize that "wired on" is the correct term but this isn't the CR
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:42 AM Bill Lindsay 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A discussion a while back touched on a couple people revealing that
>>>>> they run sew-ups on their Rivendell.  Show a photo of your Rivendell with
>>>>> sew-ups!
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my 57cm Legolas.  I briefly reconfigured it as a 2x road bike,
>>>>> but it's in-process getting switched back to a cyclocross racing set up.
>>>>> No, I will not be racing cyclocross any time soon, but I will be using it
>>>>> for rides of that kind.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53661740502/in/dateposted/
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop 

[RBW] Easily pocket-able, decent but cheap binocular or monocular

[Patrick Moore]

New thread to avoid egregious thread highjacking.

Thanks, David, that's what I'd hope to find. The one I lost/sold/gave away
was of a similar size and had what I think was at one point was a reputable
name, Bushnell; tho' these days, with selling brand assets, who the hell
knows. But it worked fine and was only a wee bit big to slide easily into a
jersey pocket.

To all: Monococular: suggestions? If one wants to put a premium on
portability at the expense of visual experience -- tho' one wants the
device to be useful for casual bird, person, or object observance. I also,
long ago, and a cheap monocular, about the size of a test tube, and it did
sort of work.

Thanks again.


On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 5:08 PM DavidP  wrote:

> "Palm sized" is how I'd describe the Carson MiniScout 7x18 I take along on
> trail rides and other rides when I don't expect to be using them much or
> are too rough to bring more expensive binoculars. Tiny, expendable, very
> small eye relief, but surprisingly decent handling for the size.
>
> A 6x18 monocular is smaller but the bins give a better view.
>
> -Dave
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 6:35:55 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Yes; please keep them coming.
>>
>> Aside, to all: suggestions for a usable but inexpensive, small, and
>> easily stowable binocular or monocular for very casual sightings while
>> riding around? For some reason I lost or tossed a nice palm-size binocular
>> and I'd like to replace with with something that easily fits into a rear
>> jersey pocket.
>>
>>
>> Patrick "I see a Clem in my future, but only after fettling the new M 1:1
>> knobby wheelset and the beater Libertas build" Moore
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 8:42 AM DavidP  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Chris - very much enjoyed your ride report and always great to
>>> see photos!
>>>
>>> I also like to bring binos on bike rides, and find a stem bag is a great
>>> way to have them easily accessible (requires folding/pocket bins - I use a
>>> pair of Bushnell Legend 10x25 for this).
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 1:51:56 AM UTC-4 Chris Halasz wrote:
>>>
>>>> I took advantage of the intermission in rains here on California’s
>>>> Central Coast for a short and easy trail ride this evening.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'd started running again and enjoying something like a 10k loop along
>>>> this trail for the past year, and recently wondered why I never bother to
>>>> take a bike here: it's a quicker way to grab the binos and do some
>>>> occasional birding. A Clem seemed like a good candidate for stepping off in
>>>> sketchy sections, and for portaging with its low top tube.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This was its first ride into the trees!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The trees seemed to be enjoying the frogs making happy noise in the
>>>> creek, the air was cool, not much breeze, and the (new to me) Clem cruised
>>>> nicely over the winter’s leaves, the drying trails, and lots of exposed
>>>> rock from a generously wet winter. Shall I ride the bike when I go
>>>> hear Suzanne Simard speak in a couple weeks?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_1128.jpeg]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_1132.jpeg]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [image: IMG_1137.jpeg]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hope you enjoy the photos as much as I enjoyed the (short) ride,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Evening Spring Ride on the Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Yes; please keep them coming.

Aside, to all: suggestions for a usable but inexpensive, small, and easily
stowable binocular or monocular for very casual sightings while riding
around? For some reason I lost or tossed a nice palm-size binocular and I'd
like to replace with with something that easily fits into a rear jersey
pocket.


Patrick "I see a Clem in my future, but only after fettling the new M 1:1
knobby wheelset and the beater Libertas build" Moore


On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 8:42 AM DavidP  wrote:

> Thanks, Chris - very much enjoyed your ride report and always great to see
> photos!
>
> I also like to bring binos on bike rides, and find a stem bag is a great
> way to have them easily accessible (requires folding/pocket bins - I use a
> pair of Bushnell Legend 10x25 for this).
>
> -Dave
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2024 at 1:51:56 AM UTC-4 Chris Halasz wrote:
>
>> I took advantage of the intermission in rains here on California’s
>> Central Coast for a short and easy trail ride this evening.
>>
>>
>> I'd started running again and enjoying something like a 10k loop along
>> this trail for the past year, and recently wondered why I never bother to
>> take a bike here: it's a quicker way to grab the binos and do some
>> occasional birding. A Clem seemed like a good candidate for stepping off in
>> sketchy sections, and for portaging with its low top tube.
>>
>>
>> This was its first ride into the trees!
>>
>>
>> The trees seemed to be enjoying the frogs making happy noise in the
>> creek, the air was cool, not much breeze, and the (new to me) Clem cruised
>> nicely over the winter’s leaves, the drying trails, and lots of exposed
>> rock from a generously wet winter. Shall I ride the bike when I go hear
>> Suzanne Simard speak in a couple weeks?
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_1128.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_1132.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> [image: IMG_1137.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> Hope you enjoy the photos as much as I enjoyed the (short) ride,
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendells with tubulars

[Patrick Moore]

I'll be interested to hear how users of both compare the ride and "feel" of
tubulars to clinchers with tubes and tubeless clinchers.* Is it true that
modern supple clinchers can roll better than equivalent tubulars? With
tubes or only tubeless?


* I realize that "wired on" is the correct term but this isn't the CR list.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:42 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> A discussion a while back touched on a couple people revealing that they
> run sew-ups on their Rivendell.  Show a photo of your Rivendell with
> sew-ups!
>
> Here's my 57cm Legolas.  I briefly reconfigured it as a 2x road bike, but
> it's in-process getting switched back to a cyclocross racing set up.  No, I
> will not be racing cyclocross any time soon, but I will be using it for
> rides of that kind.
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53661740502/in/dateposted/
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> --
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Dave. I think I might fall between sizes, between the 52 and the 59
and, inclined to go small, the 52 alas is spec'd for 650B instead of my
preferred 700C. But perhaps a 59 would be alright as long as I don't want a
drop bar.* I don't know my PBH but a 60 X 56 c-c fits perfectly with 9 cm
stem and fistful of seatpost -- 4/3 scale Asian build with more of height
in torso.

But if the 52 and 650B, good to know that it can take ~58s with fenders.

* And my daydreams of a Clem have it built with some sort of sweepback bar,
but that too is a question as every bar I've used except standard drops
hurts my left palm.




On Thu, Apr 18, 2024 at 11:25 AM DavidP  wrote:

> ... Patrick, the Clem can do tires up to 2.6 or ~2.25 fendered. The
> Platypus can do ~2.1-2.2"; mine's running VO 63mm fenders over those 2"
> GravelKings.
>
> -Dave

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the clarifications and precisions. I'm more auditory than visual
so I do appreciate the apercus of someone who is visual about the Clem's
appearance. Also, can the Clem take wider tires than the Platypus? At any
rate, if I ever get a Clem, it will be for dawdling about on pavement and
on sandy roads and trails so I'd need a minimum width of 48.

Please do post more offroad photos of the Clem.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 11:32 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:

> Patrick
>
>
> I almost, and probably should have, refrained from comparing the Clem with
> the Platypus.
>
>
> I built the 60cm Platypus with 42mm Graveling SS tires and Crust Juan
> Martin bars, front rack, often with a beloved little dog in the front
> basket rack. The Clem is a 64cm with Tosco bars, 48mm Oracle Ridge tires,
> and no racks. Surely all of that is part of the change.
>
>
> It feels a little more sure - to me - with the type of riding I’m doing
> now: a little less road, a few more rocky trails (images to follow in
> another thread).
>
>
> I’m highly visual, and while I couldn’t argue that the Platypus is the
> more objectively beautifully built frame, there’s something downright
> compelling to me about the largest Clem and the way the top and down tubes
> diverge at the steerer tube, and the way my somewhat dyslexic brain works,
> that translate to *me* finding myself more at home on this build; it feels
> a bit more like an extension of me, or maybe I just feel more sure with the
> Clem in the type of riding I’m doing now. I’ve grown more accustomed to
> riding upright, and maybe that extra inch or so of chainstay suits the
> riding I’m doing now.
>
>
> - Chris
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

OTOH: I recall a practically new Schwinn Collegiate bought at Goodwill that
had a 5 speed square-tooth wide range freewheel shifted by a second-gen
Alvit rear derailleur pulled by a massive, chromed steel lever clamped to
the stem quill; possibly Suntour ratcheting? I don't recall.

At any rate, I was struck at how well it shifted, if you moved the lever
confidently and with authority. The chain would move promptly to the next
cog with a loud "thump" without any rattling afterward and the need to trim
the derailleur. Again, the system seemed to be in new condition.

On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 11:15 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> FWIW, I read a few years ago that using a chain 1 generation more advanced
> than one's cassette improved shifting because the later and narrower chain
> avoids rubbing on adjacent cogs a wee but noticeable bit better than the
> earlier chain. I've been using 11 sp chains on my 10 sp cassettes, and
> while the difference isn't striking, I think it does keep the chain quieter
> while not in any way compromising shifting precision or speed.
>
> In any event, the best friction shifting I've enjoyed is 10 cogs with
> cassettes built using not only 10 sp spacers but real 10 sp cogs, with both
> 10 sp and 11 sp chains. The 9 and 8 sp cassettes I used had proper spacers
> but cogs of all ages and generations including 7s and Uniglides, but even
> those shifted fine -- I never complained, even tho' my 10s shift better.
>
> I said yesterday and someone else also pointed out that a great deal of
> friction shifting precision results from a happy match of shifter with
> derailleur. The 9 speed drivetrain that shifted in friction almost as well
> as the "proper" 10 sp systems was a bastard cassette shifted by a
> Microshift rd pulled by a first-gen Silver BES. Lovely, tho' due to the
> mismatch of the cogs, not quite as lovely as the current Barcon + 7402 + 10
> sp cassette build from proper 10 sp cogs carrying 11 sp chain.
>
> Patrick Moore, who also found that small-barrel Retrofriction dt shifters
> shifted 10 sp Am Classic close ratio cassettes very, very well, back circa
> 2003-2005.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:08 AM Hoch in ut  wrote:
>
>> I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok
>> But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes.
>>
>
>

-- 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I read a few years ago that using a chain 1 generation more advanced
than one's cassette improved shifting because the later and narrower chain
avoids rubbing on adjacent cogs a wee but noticeable bit better than the
earlier chain. I've been using 11 sp chains on my 10 sp cassettes, and
while the difference isn't striking, I think it does keep the chain quieter
while not in any way compromising shifting precision or speed.

In any event, the best friction shifting I've enjoyed is 10 cogs with
cassettes built using not only 10 sp spacers but real 10 sp cogs, with both
10 sp and 11 sp chains. The 9 and 8 sp cassettes I used had proper spacers
but cogs of all ages and generations including 7s and Uniglides, but even
those shifted fine -- I never complained, even tho' my 10s shift better.

I said yesterday and someone else also pointed out that a great deal of
friction shifting precision results from a happy match of shifter with
derailleur. The 9 speed drivetrain that shifted in friction almost as well
as the "proper" 10 sp systems was a bastard cassette shifted by a
Microshift rd pulled by a first-gen Silver BES. Lovely, tho' due to the
mismatch of the cogs, not quite as lovely as the current Barcon + 7402 + 10
sp cassette build from proper 10 sp cogs carrying 11 sp chain.

Patrick Moore, who also found that small-barrel Retrofriction dt shifters
shifted 10 sp Am Classic close ratio cassettes very, very well, back circa
2003-2005.



On Wed, Apr 17, 2024 at 8:08 AM Hoch in ut  wrote:

> I’ve tried 8,9,10 speeds with friction shifting. 10 speed, nope. 9 was ok
> But settled on 8-speed for pretty much all friction shift bikes.
>

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[RBW] Re: Long shot: Seeking information about a Sturmey Archer AR-8 hub: IGH + drum brake

[Patrick Moore]

I'm amazed at what arcana comes up from a request for obscure information.
I cannot be 100% certain without disassembling the hub in question, but
various inputs from several lists indicate that this "AR-8" hub is not an
ultra-close ratio racing 3 speed hub from 1938 ("AR-8") inexplicably
attached to a drum brake but a A*B*-8, an AW (133/100/75) wide ratio hub
very expectedly attached to a drum brake made in 1938 for very reasonable
use on an upright roadsters. Someone thought that the stamping read
"AB-*3"* but
I see an 8 when I look closely.

I Googled some more and found a couple of old FS ads for old roadsters with
AB-8 hubs as well as these SA links for the AB and the AB3, which both are
also on Sheldon's SA IGH crib chart:

AB: 1930s wide ratio with drum brake:
http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/index.php?page=history-detail=54

*And* the AB3: a modern (at least per Sheldon in 2010) iteration:
https://web.archive.org/web/20121029092003/http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/hubs/cid/3/id/18/specs/1

But I think that the stamping reads "8" and not "3" -- again, AB hub, wide
ratio, plus drum brake, 1938.

So, over and out.

On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 3:03 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Someone wants to trade for one of my AMs and I want to know what ratios it
> has.
>
> I realize that this is a long shot (and yes, I first asked on the IGH
> list) but does anyone know what the ratios are?
>
> >>> Is this in fact an ultra-close ratio AR hub* (made for time trialers)
> mated for some reason to a drum brake? Perhaps for tandem time trialers? <<<
>
> I'd love to have an AR with or without drum, but I don't want to end up
> with another AW-type epicyclic.
>
>
> * Direct, 107.24% overdrive, 93.24% underdrive; say 75/70/66 gi.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


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Re: [RBW] Friction 9 V 10 speed

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for the old Suntours.

OTOH, I got wonderful friction shifting with gen-1 Silvers, a Microshift
road rear derailleur, and a home-brew 9-speed cogset (used 9 sp spacers but
cogs were probably mix of 9, 8, 7, and possibly Uniglde). So a great deal
depends on the match between shifter and derailleur. In fact, I think that
this shifter/derailleur combination may have been an ideal pairing given
the cog mismatches, tho' the Barcon + DA 7402 combo today (shifting 10) is
as good if not even better, but now using proper 10 sp cogs and an 11 sp
chain, and I do prefer the action, the absence of slipping, and the
durability (broke 2 Silvers when bike fell over) of the Barcons.

OTOH again, I recall back about 2000 doing some mountain bike day tours
around Aspen and using the current mid-level Shimano indexed trigger
shifting of the time, both front and rear. I remember being very glad at
how well it all worked -- shove, snick, new gear -- when oxygen deprived
climbing a steep hill at 13K feet. And certainly the 7 speed indexed dt
rear shifting on my Sante equipped Falcon was absolutely flawless.



On Mon, Apr 15, 2024 at 11:59 PM exliontamer  wrote:

> ... When pedaling hard, I've had ghost shifting on every Riv/Dia Compe
> Shifter I've had unless they're tightened to the point of negating the
> feel. Very much prefer the older Suntour ratcheting which just feel more
> solid/sure and the Shimanos that are switchable.

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Re: [RBW] Snapped Clem seat binder bolt

[Patrick Moore]

 13, 2024 at 7:22:14 PM UTC-7 Danny wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ve had that happen on a new Riv before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is from a Riv newsletter last year:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Also, make sure to grease the binder bolts before you tighten
>>>>>>>>>>>> them down. They ship to us dry and they have a tendency to gall 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and not
>>>>>>>>>>>> tighten down enough unless they're greased up.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Danny
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2024 at 9:07 PM i  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was installing the seatpost on my wife’s new Clem, and could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not get the seatpost to stop turning. Eventually I broke the bolt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I remember I had this occur on an old Clem I had as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAL988QstY_0yqs-07nqZMTDKBoTvmqT6RUPGC8zkGWnW_GJhkg%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAL988QstY_0yqs-07nqZMTDKBoTvmqT6RUPGC8zkGWnW_GJhkg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Hard Miles

[Patrick Moore]

That might be worth watching; thanks for the link. (Yes, I too find most
movies too slow and only watch them with my daughter, a film major;
otherwise I fast-forward a lot.)*

I can't help but thinking that if there were riding Rivendells they might
have been more comfortable.

Lastly, when I read the header, "Hard Miles," I saw "Hard Men."
https://www.velominati.com/racing/flahute-the-hardest-of-the-hardmen/
You're welcome.

*Actually, discovered some old BBC or Brit TV movies that I actually like;
one is the 2-part condensation of E Waugh's already condensed Sword of
Honor, starring (of all people) Daniel Craig. I dislike Craig, but he does
a wonderful job in this early 2000s movie. Four thumbs up.

Oh: Another wonderful one: Run, Boy, Run -- a 9 year old Jewish boy from
the shtetl runs away into the woods as Nazis round up his family and shoot
his father; the movie describes his survival. Based on true story.


On Fri, Apr 12, 2024 at 11:37 AM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There’s a new movie premiering next week called Hard Miles, and I think it
> will delight us. It’s based on a true story about some youth in the justice
> system riding their bikes from CO to the Grand Canyon, a 750+ mile venture.
> There are some big names in the movie, notably Sean Astin, who played
> Samwise Gamgee in LOTR, AND THERE’S YOUR RIVENDELL CONNECTION YOU’RE
> WELCOME.
>
> I never see movies anymore (I can’t sit still that long) but I plan to see
> this one.
> Here’s the trailer:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxwcSaXXAZE
>
> Leah
>
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[RBW] Spacer / shifting performance: Correction [AliExpress].

[Patrick Moore]

Re: 1.6 mm Shimano cogs spaced with 2.04 mm Miche 10 sp spacers instead of
stock Shimano 2.35 mm 10 sp spacers (Miche's 10 sp cogs have a 1.8 mm body
-- but not teeth, which are also 1.6 mm -- and thus take the narrower
spacers):

Slight change to judgment: while the 11 sp chain does shift and track
wonderfully with the skinnier Shimano cogs spaced with the skinnier Miche
spacers on 8 of the 10 gears (the 14 t outer cog has a built in
Shimano-9-sp spec spacer), it rattles very, very slightly on the remaining
cog, requiring finicky trimming to eliminate all sound; and alas this cog
is the 18 t, #5 from outermost, which is tje most-used 70" flatland
cruising gear.

So, once the Ali Express spacers order arrives I'll bump at least that cog
out with 2.35s or perhaps 2.18s.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 1:45 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> For the new 14-25 knobby cassette I bought 3 14-25 9 speeds from Peter
> White ($28 each, not bad) and disassembled them to replace the spacers and
> swap the 21 for a 20 and the 23 for a 22 and add a 28 after the 25. So the
> 14 outer is a proper Shimano outer with its own spacer (I guess that this
> spacer is 2.5 mm? I used Miche 2 mm spacers for the rest of the cassette;
> it all shifts perfectly ...
>

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Re: [RBW] The excellent old GP Sheldon/bikesite/mudsluts interview

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for posting this link; old times. I do miss the Reader; I expect
Rivendell could turn that into a modest new revenue stream, but Grant did
talk about the wear and tear writing it imposed on his psyche. But it was
always fun and quirky and sometimes silly, but genially -- and *interestingly!
--* so and to me one of the best-ever bike reads. The Blahg is a good
second best and there otta be a law that Grant write a new one every 2
weeks.

Also, Grant was the one person who brought Brooks saddles (or leather
suspension saddles generally) and transverse saddlebags back to the US
market.

Patrick Moore, who sourced a NOS Campy Valentino FD from Rivendell for his
first custom 26" wheel Riv road bike in 1995 -- and who still has 3/4 of
that lump of beeswax that he bought from Rivendell not much later; fun
fact: beeswax kept for 30 years hardens into a solid bulk that no fire will
melt. Or so it seems.

[And who just now got back from a very pleasant early Spring, sunny, breezy
ride on his 1999 Joe Starck Riv Road Custom gofast 76" fixed gear -- the
truly best bicycle I've owned out of scores and the ultimate keeper.]



*bikesite: And finallyIf Eddy Mercyx and Miguel Indurain were able to
race each other in their prime, if they were to ride technologically
identical bikes, if they each had the exact same amount of rest, each had
abstained from sex for a full week before the race and each had their
friends, family and countrymen there to cheer them on, who would get the
most flats?Grant Petersen: Indurain, but they'd be pinch flats.*



On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 8:12 AM  wrote:

> I’m sure this has been revived and discussed many times in the past thirty
> odd years, but I’m reading the Mudsluts (Sheldon Brown/bikesite?) interview
> with Grant Petersen and well if you haven’t read it you should. It’s mostly
> Grant trying not to make the whole interview about the internet and its
> future as a tool for bicycle businesses and customers.
> I got here unironically via Google search so I can’t tell you when it’s
> from but early in the Rivendell days, maybe 1994 or 1995.
> Someone more saavy can tell. Hopefully this link will work:
> Https://sheldonbrown.com/bridgestone/mudslutsinterview.html
>
> Liz in Sacramento
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: 58cm Appaloosa Double Top Tube Disc Brake

[Patrick Moore]

Nice. I find disc-brake retro-equipped Rivendells rather interesting; I
know another person retrofitted them to a very nice Atlantis.

Who else has done this, and why?

Me, I like discs for dirt riding tho' they don't add anything for my
pavement riding.

On Mon, Apr 8, 2024 at 4:56 PM eric swain  wrote:

> And here is a full list of parts.
>
> Frame & fork: 58cm Joe Appaloosa with double top tubes AND disc brake tabs
> added by Walt Works.
> Headset: Tange Levin CDS
> Stem:  Crust/Nitto, 31.8mm, 75mm, silver
> Handlebars: Tumbleweed Persuader, steel, cut to 760mm
> Grips: DMR Deathgrip
> Brake levers: Shimano BL-M600
> Brakes: Paul Klampers, long pull, Paul brake adapters. Avid Clean Sweep G2
> 160mm Rotors
> Shifters: Shimano XT SL-M750
> Rear Derailleur: Shimano Deore RD-M591
> Front Derailleur: Shimano Deore XT Triple
> Cassette: Sram PG-950 9 speed, 11-34
> Chain: Sram PC-951
> Cranks: Shimano Deore FC-MT60, 175mm, 110/74 bcd, Shimano chain rings
> 46t/30t(46 mounted in the middle position, 30 in the small ring position)
> Bottom Bracket: Shimano UN55 68 x 118mm
> Pedals: No pedals, I'm keeping the Speedplay platforms currently
> installed.
> Hubs: Profile Racing Elite 6 bolt disc, 32h, black, QR, HG 11 speed road
> freehub body, Shimano XT skewers. I'll also include the end caps and
> hardware to convert hubs to bolt on.
> Rims: Sun Ringle Rhyno Lites, 32h, black with machined sidewalls
> Spokes/nipples, DT Swiss Competition, black, DT Swiss silver brass nipples
> Tires: Schwalbe Marathon 700 x 50, regular inner tubes
> Seat Post: Thomson Elite, silver. I'll include the Nitto post as well.
> Saddle: Brooks Cambium C17
> Front rack: Nitto Mark's Rack, silver with Wald 137 Basket
> Fenders: Planet Bike Cascadia 29 x 65mm, Black
>
> On Monday, April 8, 2024 at 3:55:05 PM UTC-7 eric swain wrote:
>
>> Hey folks,
>>
>> Some of you may remember I tried selling my Appaloosa back in 2020. Well
>> at that time I decided to keep it, change a few parts, and have really
>> enjoyed it since then. Fun bike to ride, great set up for commuting,
>> running errands, dawdling around the neighborhood, and general bicycle
>> shenanigans. Fast forward to present times: my quiver has grown to a
>> ridiculous amount of bikes, my personal riding focus has shifted, I have a
>> new bike on the way, and I may be moving soon. I do not have room for every
>> bike and with a potential move I need scale back on large items, like
>> bikes. So this one is back up for sale!
>>
>> I am asking $2000 as pictured(minus pedals). Including the Outershell
>> Wald 137 basket bag, Makeshifter Snackhole stem bag, Zefal frame pump, Paul
>> Gino light mount, and King cages. Bike is located in Portland OR. Test
>> rides are welcome. Boxing and shipping is no problem. Here is a link to
>> more pics and the geo.
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/119mQzJCLMtSAMxge007HSiDUI9lv76W4?usp=sharing
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eric
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: AliExpress

[Patrick Moore]

For the 13-25 (Soma slick wheelset) I bought about 3 cassettes' worth of
 Miche cogs with extras for the high-use gears, and the outer/small is a
dedicated outer/small with its own spacer.

For the new 14-25 knobby cassette I bought 3 14-25 9 speeds from Peter
White ($28 each, not bad) and disassembled them to replace the spacers and
swap the 21 for a 20 and the 23 for a 22 and add a 28 after the 25. So the
14 outer is a proper Shimano outer with its own spacer (I guess that this
spacer is 2.5 mm? I used Miche 2 mm spacers for the rest of the cassette;
it all shifts perfectly [and the 7402 short cage climbs onto the 28 with no
fuss at all, with capacity to spare].

For a some-time-ago Ram I built a 15-25 9 speed cassette out of Miche
cogs*, and Miche made 15 and 14 t outers for Shimano with built-in spacers;
I think these are used among other places for junior racing.

But I've used all sorts of cogs for the outer position, sometimes just
cramming a regular inner-position cog into first place and just squeezing
it tightly in place with a lot of torque on the lockring. I've never had
one of these skip, but then I rarely use the outer and certainly not under
high torque.

*I got a lovely DA 7410 crank and wanted to use it in place of the TA 46/28
13-something, so I swapped out the 53/39 for a very compact 52/38 and built
the 15-25 to give me very similar gears with the much bigger rings.

On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 11:57 AM Garth  wrote:

> I ordered some things on Mar. 27th Patrick and they arrived April 3rd. The
> USPS label had a NJ address, but it said "not for returns". Then I noticed
> that label was placed over another label, so I peeled it back as best I
> could and sure enough, I saw an all Chinese printed label, the only English
> I saw was my name. So they must send these via air from China to NJ and
> relabel them with a USPS label. You being in NM they'll likely come from a
> West coast location upon arrival from China. I didn't pay anything extra
> for shipping either.
>
> When you make your own cassettes Patrick, what do you use for the small
> cog next to the lockring ? I see only the 11t and 12t serrated cogs are
> sold, but I know Miche and Shimano sell cassettes with 13,14 and 15t
> smallest cogs. Do you just tighten up against a regular cog without the
> serrations ?
> On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano
>> spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my
>> clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and
>> making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and
>> paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and
>> order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where
>> shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.
>>
>> Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get
>> 2 dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you
>> click "yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price
>> skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.
>>
>> I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small
>> packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't
>> have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?
>>
>> At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted
>> for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp
>> Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm
>> for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2
>> mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either
>> case.
>>
>> But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm
>> spacers shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted
>> made from 10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur
>> adjustment; so who knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>&g

[RBW] AliExpress

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano
spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my
clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and
making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and
paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and
order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where
shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.

Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get 2
dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you click
"yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price
skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.

I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small
packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't
have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?

At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted
for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp
Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm
for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2
mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either
case.

But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm spacers
shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted made from
10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur adjustment; so who
knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Rivendell style

[Patrick Moore]

For those of you too refined to read Bike Snob regularly, you might want to
make an exception for today's (Thursday's) post for Rivendell build canons
and style rules. Video included of new Riv owner anxious about acceptance
in the Rivendell World. [35-year-old narrator needs training in public
speaking.] [Recall when a schtick about Calvin's ~35-year-old father was
his mid-30s decrepitude and the absurdity of a middle-aged man riding a
bicycle in the wind, rain, and snow. "Time just gets away from us."]

This was fun:

And finally, your Rivendell bicycle should feature a highly improvisational
handlebar treatment:

Basically it’s like the Velominati on acid.

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[RBW] ISO Carradice Zip Roll or similar in size and quality, black, red, green

[Patrick Moore]

The black and green are $59+ change at Carradice but now it costs over $21
for shipping such a small item.

Looking for a good quality Zip Roll, *not tweed!!!* -- for sale or trade.
Any color but no damned tweed.

Open to similar design and similar size bags by other makers.

Please reply offlist.

Thanks, Patrick

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Re: [RBW] Re: Long Chainstays - What Problem/Deficiency Do They Solve?

[Patrick Moore]

Here's one benefit of very long chainstays:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xXRjXv_4v0

You couldn't do that on any of my road Rivs or my Sam.

Patrick Moore, who used to use his right foot to brake the 24" front wheel
in 28"-wheel fork on his very first build when riding the fw bike without
other brakes in heavy traffic and down steep, winding hills on traffic
arteries.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing Choices

[Patrick Moore]

Piaw: It's easy and, thanks to AliExpress, relatively cheap to build your
own cassettes from loose parts -- at least, perhaps not for really huge
cogs. But a half step + granny could give me, anyway, nice close cruising
gears in the 75" to 60" range plus a downhill gear or two and some low
bailout gears.

I did this long ago for a commuter with 48/45 or 47/44 rings and a 7 speed
cassette, something like 13-32, half-stepping (more or less) the middle 5
cogs with cruising gears in the middle, and using the small for a downhill
gear and the big for a bailout gear:

25" wheel:
48 45
12 100
13 92 87
15 80 75
17 71 66
20 60 56
24 50 47
32 35

BTW, this shifted very nicely from hoods, ramps, and hooks with Kelley
Take-Offs, on pavement; would not want KTOs on bumpy dirt.


Generally speaking, though, with 9 cogs or more I prefer crossover, and
 I'll trade top high and bottom low for close middle ratios; with a 10
speed cassette giving many more possibilities and the new knobby 50 mm
Oracle Ridges requiring slightly lower sandy dirt gearing,  my Matthews
"road bike for (sandy) dirt" has a sub-compact plus granny:

28 1/2" wheel:
44 28
14 90
15 84
16 78
17 74
18 70
19 66
20 63 40
22 57 36
25 50 32
28 45 29




On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 10:54 AM Piaw Na  wrote:

> I'm a big fan of half-step + granny for 7-speed rear cassettes and
> freewheels. I think I even wrote an article about it for the Rivendell
> Reader at one point (good luck digging it up!). What killed it for me was
> once cassettes got to the point where constructing your cassette was no
> longer supported or too much work, it was no longer practical

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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

As a matter of fact, I've never used my Miche 10 sp cassettes with a 10 sp
chain but I suppose those must also work. (Since I built those Miche 10 sp
cassettes, I've used a chain "1 generation later" than the cassette because
web scuttlebutt says that this promotes crisper shifting. At least, I have
found no evidence to the contrary -- shifting is wonderful, as it is with
the same chain and the cassette made from 1.6 mm Shimano cogs and the same
2 mm spacers.)

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:58 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ...  At any rate, an 11 speed chain works fine on those 10 sp Miche cogs.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: Bump! ISO: 10-speed spacers. And question.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Ted. I reviewed Sheldon's chart and saw these measurements for 7
thru 10; where did you find the 11 sp measurements?

I'll be interested in you related post.

The 10 sp Miche cogs are odd. The Shimano 10 speeds measure 1.6 mm wide
across the cog, the Miche ones measure 1.6 mm at the teeth but ~1.8 mm or
so below tooth level; thus the 2 mm spacers, I guess. At any rate, an 11
speed chain works fine on those 10 sp Miche cogs.

Yes, someone please assemble a complete chart for at least Shimano
cassettes, freehub bodies, cogs, spaces, and chains.

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:05 AM Ted Durant  wrote:

> FWIW, the center-center spacing for Shimano cogs is:
>
> 7sp 5.00
> 8sp 4.80
> 9sp 4.35
> 10sp 3.95
> 11sp Road 3.69
> 11sp MTB 3.90
>
> Sorry, I don’t have 12 and 13.
>
> Cog + spacer widths need to add to those numbers. Theoretically you can
> use thinner cogs than spec with wider spacers, but you would run into
> trouble with chain fit using thicker cogs with thinner spacers. If somebody
> finds or assembles a complete table of cog and spacer thickness spec’s,
> that would be a significant contribution to humankind.
>
> I’ll be posting on a related topic, soon.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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>


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