Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sun, Feb 07, 2021 at 03:54:53PM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 05:41:13PM -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > The image has been synced to
> > https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/official-respins/ and the future
> > images will be available in the same location. If in case you need to
> > provide the image to your users, they can verify the image by the signed
> > checksum available in the above link as well.
> 
> Hey Mohan, I notice the CHECKSUM file here is not readable.

Fixed. 

kevin


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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 05:41:13PM -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> The image has been synced to
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/official-respins/ and the future
> images will be available in the same location. If in case you need to
> provide the image to your users, they can verify the image by the signed
> checksum available in the above link as well.

Hey Mohan, I notice the CHECKSUM file here is not readable.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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RE: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark RH Pearson]

> From: Mohan Boddu  
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
> The image has been synced to 
> https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/official-respins/ and the future images 
> will be available in the same location. If in case you need to provide the 
> image to your users, they can verify the image by the signed checksum 
> available in the above link as well.

Perfect - thanks Mohan!
Mark

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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mohan Boddu]

Hi Mark,

The image has been synced to
https://dl.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/official-respins/ and the future
images will be available in the same location. If in case you need to
provide the image to your users, they can verify the image by the signed
checksum available in the above link as well.

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 11:26 AM Mark RH Pearson 
wrote:

> Hi Mohan,
>
>
> From my point of view - yes please. The image is off to the test team, and
> I don’t have any feedback yet but fingers crossed for a smooth passage 
> All the fundamentals are looking good from what we’ve tried
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> *From:* Mohan Boddu 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2021 11:24 AM
> *To:* For testing and quality assurance of Fedora releases <
> test@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads
>
>
>
> Just checking, should I push the image to /pub/alt/official-respins/ or
> should I wait?
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:48 AM Mark RH Pearson 
> wrote:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Adam Williamson 
> > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 7:57 PM
> > To: For testing and quality assurance of Fedora releases <
> test@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> > Subject: Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads
> >
> > On Fri, 2021-01-22 at 11:12 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So the image is built now:
> > > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> > > >
> > > > I ran the openQA tests on it:
> > > >
> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-
> > NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> > > >
> > > > there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> > > > bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> > > > download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> > >
> > > Please let me know what you find, I can re-run the build again if
> > > needed (provided the fixes are in the updates repo). And once the
> > > testing is done, I will push the iso to /pub/alt/offical-respins/ for
> > > future consumption and also with signed checksums as the scratch
> > > builds only live for 14 days in the build system.
> >
> > Well the openQA failures are still happening and I'm damned if I can
> > figure out why, but Lukas said they test out fine in manual testing, so
> > it's probably just some very weird glitch. Unless anyone can reproduce
> > the top bar just...not responding...after the system has been up for a
> > while, we can probably call the image good.
>
> So far we've not seen that issue either - it's looking good. We have one
> minor issue with the mic mute LED not working on this version where it did
> before and we'll need to dig into, but it isn't a blocker (assuming we
> figure out what the issue is and how to make the fix available before the
> release).
>
> Thanks for doing all this - very much appreciated. Happy weekend all 
> Mark
>
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RE: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark RH Pearson]

Hi Mohan,

From my point of view - yes please. The image is off to the test team, and I 
don’t have any feedback yet but fingers crossed for a smooth passage  All the 
fundamentals are looking good from what we’ve tried

Mark

From: Mohan Boddu 
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2021 11:24 AM
To: For testing and quality assurance of Fedora releases 

Subject: Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

Just checking, should I push the image to /pub/alt/official-respins/ or should 
I wait?

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:48 AM Mark RH Pearson 
mailto:markpear...@lenovo.com>> wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Williamson 
> mailto:adamw...@fedoraproject.org>>
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 7:57 PM
> To: For testing and quality assurance of Fedora releases 
> mailto:test@lists.fedoraproject.org>>
> Subject: Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads
>
> On Fri, 2021-01-22 at 11:12 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > >
> > > So the image is built now:
> > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> > >
> > > I ran the openQA tests on it:
> > > https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-
> NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> > >
> > > there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> > > bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> > > download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> >
> > Please let me know what you find, I can re-run the build again if
> > needed (provided the fixes are in the updates repo). And once the
> > testing is done, I will push the iso to /pub/alt/offical-respins/ for
> > future consumption and also with signed checksums as the scratch
> > builds only live for 14 days in the build system.
>
> Well the openQA failures are still happening and I'm damned if I can
> figure out why, but Lukas said they test out fine in manual testing, so
> it's probably just some very weird glitch. Unless anyone can reproduce
> the top bar just...not responding...after the system has been up for a
> while, we can probably call the image good.

So far we've not seen that issue either - it's looking good. We have one minor 
issue with the mic mute LED not working on this version where it did before and 
we'll need to dig into, but it isn't a blocker (assuming we figure out what the 
issue is and how to make the fix available before the release).

Thanks for doing all this - very much appreciated. Happy weekend all 
Mark

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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mohan Boddu]

Just checking, should I push the image to /pub/alt/official-respins/ or
should I wait?

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021 at 10:48 AM Mark RH Pearson 
wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: Adam Williamson 
> > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 7:57 PM
> > To: For testing and quality assurance of Fedora releases <
> test@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> > Subject: Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads
> >
> > On Fri, 2021-01-22 at 11:12 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So the image is built now:
> > > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> > > >
> > > > I ran the openQA tests on it:
> > > >
> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-
> > NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> > > >
> > > > there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> > > > bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> > > > download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> > >
> > > Please let me know what you find, I can re-run the build again if
> > > needed (provided the fixes are in the updates repo). And once the
> > > testing is done, I will push the iso to /pub/alt/offical-respins/ for
> > > future consumption and also with signed checksums as the scratch
> > > builds only live for 14 days in the build system.
> >
> > Well the openQA failures are still happening and I'm damned if I can
> > figure out why, but Lukas said they test out fine in manual testing, so
> > it's probably just some very weird glitch. Unless anyone can reproduce
> > the top bar just...not responding...after the system has been up for a
> > while, we can probably call the image good.
>
> So far we've not seen that issue either - it's looking good. We have one
> minor issue with the mic mute LED not working on this version where it did
> before and we'll need to dig into, but it isn't a blocker (assuming we
> figure out what the issue is and how to make the fix available before the
> release).
>
> Thanks for doing all this - very much appreciated. Happy weekend all 
> Mark
>
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RE: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark RH Pearson]

> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Williamson 
> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 7:57 PM
> To: For testing and quality assurance of Fedora releases 
> 
> Subject: Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads
> 
> On Fri, 2021-01-22 at 11:12 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > >
> > > So the image is built now:
> > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> > >
> > > I ran the openQA tests on it:
> > > https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-
> NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> > >
> > > there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> > > bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> > > download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> >
> > Please let me know what you find, I can re-run the build again if
> > needed (provided the fixes are in the updates repo). And once the
> > testing is done, I will push the iso to /pub/alt/offical-respins/ for
> > future consumption and also with signed checksums as the scratch
> > builds only live for 14 days in the build system.
> 
> Well the openQA failures are still happening and I'm damned if I can
> figure out why, but Lukas said they test out fine in manual testing, so
> it's probably just some very weird glitch. Unless anyone can reproduce
> the top bar just...not responding...after the system has been up for a
> while, we can probably call the image good.

So far we've not seen that issue either - it's looking good. We have one minor 
issue with the mic mute LED not working on this version where it did before and 
we'll need to dig into, but it isn't a blocker (assuming we figure out what the 
issue is and how to make the fix available before the release).

Thanks for doing all this - very much appreciated. Happy weekend all 
Mark
 
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2021-01-22 at 11:12 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > 
> > So the image is built now:
> > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> > 
> > I ran the openQA tests on it:
> > https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> > 
> > there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> > bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> > download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> 
> Please let me know what you find, I can re-run the build again if
> needed (provided the fixes are in the updates repo). And once the
> testing is done, I will push the iso to /pub/alt/offical-respins/ for
> future consumption and also with signed checksums as the scratch
> builds only live for 14 days in the build system.

Well the openQA failures are still happening and I'm damned if I can
figure out why, but Lukas said they test out fine in manual testing, so
it's probably just some very weird glitch. Unless anyone can reproduce
the top bar just...not responding...after the system has been up for a
while, we can probably call the image good.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net


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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mohan Boddu]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 2:32 PM Adam Williamson
 wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2021-01-21 at 11:42 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM Mark Pearson  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 21/01/2021 10:46, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
> > > > > suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
> > > > > candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
> > > > > be hard for releng to run that,
> > > >
> > > > Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included, it
> > > > wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually making it
> > > > official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized yet, I
> > > > would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run this, I
> > > > understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule really
> > > > helps.
> > > >
> > > From Lenovo perspective we'd like the image now (or next week) ready for
> > > the 2021 Carbon. If there was a blocker issue then running it again
> > > would be useful (but so far test results are good and I'll know in the
> > > next couple week(ish) if there are any red flags.
> >
> > I will start building an image asap, expect something by the end of
> > the day today (hopefully).
>
> So the image is built now:
> https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
>
> I ran the openQA tests on it:
> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
>
> there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.

Please let me know what you find, I can re-run the build again if
needed (provided the fixes are in the updates repo). And once the
testing is done, I will push the iso to /pub/alt/offical-respins/ for
future consumption and also with signed checksums as the scratch
builds only live for 14 days in the build system.

> --
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA
> IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
> https://www.happyassassin.net
>
>
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Lukas Ruzicka]

Today I performed the Desktop tests on the above mentioned respin and I
believe there are no big flaws in it. Going through the usual testing
stuff, I have not stumbled on anything.
The combination Alt-N in the Intro still does not work, but since this was
not blocking for F33, I consider this to be a cosmetic issue.

The list of tests I went through:

PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_browser
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - terminal emulator
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_login
PASS QA:Testcase_audio_basic
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_panel_basic
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_automount
PASS QA:Testcase_workstation_core_applications
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_update_graphical
PASS QA:Testcase_Printing_New_Printer - real printer
PASS QA:Testcase_Printing_New_Printer - virtual printer
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_update_notification
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_error_checks
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_panel_advanced
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_keyring
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_user_switching
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - file manager
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - package manager
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - image viewer
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - document viewer
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - text editor
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - archive manager
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - problem reporter
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - help viewer
PASS QA:Testcase_desktop_app_basic - system settings

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 10:27 PM Adam Williamson 
wrote:

> On Thu, 2021-01-21 at 15:41 -0500, Mark Pearson wrote:
> >
> > On 21/01/2021 14:31, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > On Thu, 2021-01-21 at 11:42 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM Mark Pearson <
> markpear...@lenovo.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 21/01/2021 10:46, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
> > > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone.
> I'd
> > > > > > > suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose
> rather than a
> > > > > > > candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think
> it should
> > > > > > > be hard for releng to run that,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included,
> it
> > > > > > wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually
> making it
> > > > > > official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized
> yet, I
> > > > > > would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run
> this, I
> > > > > > understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule
> really
> > > > > > helps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > From Lenovo perspective we'd like the image now (or next week)
> ready for
> > > > > the 2021 Carbon. If there was a blocker issue then running it again
> > > > > would be useful (but so far test results are good and I'll know in
> the
> > > > > next couple week(ish) if there are any red flags.
> > > >
> > > > I will start building an image asap, expect something by the end of
> > > > the day today (hopefully).
> > >
> > > So the image is built now:
> > > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> > >
> > > I ran the openQA tests on it:
> > >
> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> > >
> > > there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> > > bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> > > download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> > >
> > Wow - thank you!
> >
> > I've grabbed it and it looks good so far, we'll start kicking the tires
> > on it and let you know if we find any issues.
>
> The failures are...odd. This is what they seem to have in common:
> they're all in tests where we try to open something from the top bar
> after a while. For the desktop notifications tests we click where the
> time is, to open the notifications panel. For the switch_user test
> we're trying to click the top-right menu.
>
> In all three cases, it seems like the click just doesn't do anything.
> I've re-run all the tests and they failed again the same way second
> time, so it doesn't *just* seem like a blip.
>
> I'm currently downloading the ISO to test locally and see if I can
> reproduce this sort of behaviour...
> --
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA
> IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
> https://www.happyassassin.net
>
>
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Lukas Ruzicka]

> I'm currently downloading the ISO to test locally and see if I can
> reproduce this sort of behaviour...
>

I could not reproduce it locally on this respin.




> --
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> Fedora QA
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> https://www.happyassassin.net
>
>
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2021-01-21 at 15:41 -0500, Mark Pearson wrote:
> 
> On 21/01/2021 14:31, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > On Thu, 2021-01-21 at 11:42 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM Mark Pearson  
> > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On 21/01/2021 10:46, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
> > > > > > suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather 
> > > > > > than a
> > > > > > candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it 
> > > > > > should
> > > > > > be hard for releng to run that,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included, it
> > > > > wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually making it
> > > > > official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized yet, I
> > > > > would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run this, I
> > > > > understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule really
> > > > > helps.
> > > > > 
> > > > From Lenovo perspective we'd like the image now (or next week) ready for
> > > > the 2021 Carbon. If there was a blocker issue then running it again
> > > > would be useful (but so far test results are good and I'll know in the
> > > > next couple week(ish) if there are any red flags.
> > > 
> > > I will start building an image asap, expect something by the end of
> > > the day today (hopefully).
> > 
> > So the image is built now:
> > https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> > 
> > I ran the openQA tests on it:
> > https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> > 
> > there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> > bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> > download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> > 
> Wow - thank you!
> 
> I've grabbed it and it looks good so far, we'll start kicking the tires
> on it and let you know if we find any issues.

The failures are...odd. This is what they seem to have in common:
they're all in tests where we try to open something from the top bar
after a while. For the desktop notifications tests we click where the
time is, to open the notifications panel. For the switch_user test
we're trying to click the top-right menu.

In all three cases, it seems like the click just doesn't do anything.
I've re-run all the tests and they failed again the same way second
time, so it doesn't *just* seem like a blip.

I'm currently downloading the ISO to test locally and see if I can
reproduce this sort of behaviour...
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net


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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark Pearson]

On 21/01/2021 14:31, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2021-01-21 at 11:42 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM Mark Pearson  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 21/01/2021 10:46, Mohan Boddu wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
  wrote:
>
> Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
> suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
> candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
> be hard for releng to run that,

 Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included, it
 wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually making it
 official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized yet, I
 would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run this, I
 understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule really
 helps.

>>> From Lenovo perspective we'd like the image now (or next week) ready for
>>> the 2021 Carbon. If there was a blocker issue then running it again
>>> would be useful (but so far test results are good and I'll know in the
>>> next couple week(ish) if there are any red flags.
>>
>> I will start building an image asap, expect something by the end of
>> the day today (hopefully).
> 
> So the image is built now:
> https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482
> 
> I ran the openQA tests on it:
> https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-NOREPORT=33=fedora=1
> 
> there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
> bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
> download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
> 
Wow - thank you!

I've grabbed it and it looks good so far, we'll start kicking the tires
on it and let you know if we find any issues.

Mark
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Adam Williamson]

On Thu, 2021-01-21 at 11:42 -0500, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM Mark Pearson  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On 21/01/2021 10:46, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
> > >  wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
> > > > suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
> > > > candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
> > > > be hard for releng to run that,
> > > 
> > > Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included, it
> > > wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually making it
> > > official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized yet, I
> > > would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run this, I
> > > understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule really
> > > helps.
> > > 
> > From Lenovo perspective we'd like the image now (or next week) ready for
> > the 2021 Carbon. If there was a blocker issue then running it again
> > would be useful (but so far test results are good and I'll know in the
> > next couple week(ish) if there are any red flags.
> 
> I will start building an image asap, expect something by the end of
> the day today (hopefully).

So the image is built now:
https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=60156482

I ran the openQA tests on it:
https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?build=Fedora-33-Lenovo-20210121.n.0-NOREPORT=33=fedora=1

there were a few failures that all basically related to the GNOME top
bar and/or notifications. I'm re-running the tests, and will also
download the ISO and poke it a bit locally.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net


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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mohan Boddu]

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 11:06 AM Mark Pearson  wrote:
>
>
> On 21/01/2021 10:46, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
> >> suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
> >> candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
> >> be hard for releng to run that,
> >
> > Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included, it
> > wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually making it
> > official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized yet, I
> > would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run this, I
> > understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule really
> > helps.
> >
> From Lenovo perspective we'd like the image now (or next week) ready for
> the 2021 Carbon. If there was a blocker issue then running it again
> would be useful (but so far test results are good and I'll know in the
> next couple week(ish) if there are any red flags.

I will start building an image asap, expect something by the end of
the day today (hopefully).

>
> We have some other platforms that come out later in the year with Fedora
> - around the end of the summer. Last year because of various things it
> worked out really well that we were ready for testing just as F33
> released so we of course used that. I'm focusing right now on improving
> how we get our releases out much more quickly (now I know where many of
> the issues lie) so I'm not sure everything will line up quite as well,
> and that's probably worthy of discussion. Is it better to have the new
> Fedora out but a later release of a platform? Or earlier HW with older
> Fedora? Generally the biggest criticisms I get are cost (whether I have
> no control over) and release dates after Windows (where we have sucked
> and I have lots of scope for improvement).
>
> Sorry - long answer to say "once or at worst twice a year"

Thank you very much Mark, once or twice a year is gonna be fine for us.

>
> >> and I should be able to run openQA
> >> tests and even create a validation event if necessary, I might need to
> >> metaphorically whang a few things with a hammer because it won't quite
> >> fit the normal flows but it shouldn't be a big deal.
> >>
> >> Also, I forgot to mention it'll obviously be completely impossible for
> >> this to work without Lenovo shipping me some hardware for,
> >> uh...testing. Yup. That's definitely non-negotiable. Two of everything.
> >> :D
> >
> > I hope one of them is for RelEng or else it will be three of everything :D
> I have noted the request ;)

Hehe :)

>
> Mark
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark Pearson]

On 21/01/2021 10:46, Mohan Boddu wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
>  wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
>> suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
>> candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
>> be hard for releng to run that,
> 
> Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included, it
> wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually making it
> official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized yet, I
> would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run this, I
> understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule really
> helps.
> 
From Lenovo perspective we'd like the image now (or next week) ready for
the 2021 Carbon. If there was a blocker issue then running it again
would be useful (but so far test results are good and I'll know in the
next couple week(ish) if there are any red flags.

We have some other platforms that come out later in the year with Fedora
- around the end of the summer. Last year because of various things it
worked out really well that we were ready for testing just as F33
released so we of course used that. I'm focusing right now on improving
how we get our releases out much more quickly (now I know where many of
the issues lie) so I'm not sure everything will line up quite as well,
and that's probably worthy of discussion. Is it better to have the new
Fedora out but a later release of a platform? Or earlier HW with older
Fedora? Generally the biggest criticisms I get are cost (whether I have
no control over) and release dates after Windows (where we have sucked
and I have lots of scope for improvement).

Sorry - long answer to say "once or at worst twice a year"

>> and I should be able to run openQA
>> tests and even create a validation event if necessary, I might need to
>> metaphorically whang a few things with a hammer because it won't quite
>> fit the normal flows but it shouldn't be a big deal.
>>
>> Also, I forgot to mention it'll obviously be completely impossible for
>> this to work without Lenovo shipping me some hardware for,
>> uh...testing. Yup. That's definitely non-negotiable. Two of everything.
>> :D
> 
> I hope one of them is for RelEng or else it will be three of everything :D
I have noted the request ;)

Mark
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mohan Boddu]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 3:30 PM Adam Williamson
 wrote:
>
> Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
> suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
> candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
> be hard for releng to run that,

Yes, RelEng can create a live media with updates repo included, it
wont be a huge deal and we can sign the checksums manually making it
official. But I notice that the cadence hasn't been finalized yet, I
would really appreciate if we know how often do we have to run this, I
understand it is subjected to change, but having a schedule really
helps.

> and I should be able to run openQA
> tests and even create a validation event if necessary, I might need to
> metaphorically whang a few things with a hammer because it won't quite
> fit the normal flows but it shouldn't be a big deal.
>
> Also, I forgot to mention it'll obviously be completely impossible for
> this to work without Lenovo shipping me some hardware for,
> uh...testing. Yup. That's definitely non-negotiable. Two of everything.
> :D

I hope one of them is for RelEng or else it will be three of everything :D

> --
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA
> IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
> https://www.happyassassin.net
>
>
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark Pearson]

Hi Chris

On 20/01/2021 17:06, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 10:43 AM Mark Pearson  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Some background: We need the latest kernel/alsa/pulse/libfprint and
>> their dependencies for supporting the new 2021 HW - and as we'll be
>> (hopefully) releasing before F34 is available we're looking for
>> F33+updates and the best way to provide that in a way that works for the
>> community and our preload process.
> 
> We need to coordinate a shim update, one that's signed with new world
> keys (post-BootHole) which doesn't yet exist.
> 
> Specifically, if the new hardware will come with UEFI Secure Boot
> enabled, it will need a preloaded image containing either pre-BootHole
> revocation database. Shim needs to be updated before the revocation
> database or the system will not boot.
> 
> If this preload image is also going to form the basis for a recovery
> partition, this is a bigger concern because it'd be rendered
> unbootable once the revocation database is pushed. Fedora hasn't
> decided to push the revocation database automatically, but other
> distros do so aggressively. Microsoft has thus far delayed pushing the
> post-BootHole revocation db, but eventually they will sometime this
> year.
> 
> 
We still have secure boot disabled by default for Linux systems - it's
something I want to turn on but every time we look at it there are a few
headaches and there's some process in manufacturing too to resolve and
it just never quite makes it high enough in the list to become a priority.

I'm not going to get that solved for this round so I don't think it has
to block this effort. Something I'm happy to look at for platforms later
in the year with F34/F35?

Let me know if I'm missing something important.

Mark
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Chris Murphy]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 10:43 AM Mark Pearson  wrote:
>
>
> Some background: We need the latest kernel/alsa/pulse/libfprint and
> their dependencies for supporting the new 2021 HW - and as we'll be
> (hopefully) releasing before F34 is available we're looking for
> F33+updates and the best way to provide that in a way that works for the
> community and our preload process.

We need to coordinate a shim update, one that's signed with new world
keys (post-BootHole) which doesn't yet exist.

Specifically, if the new hardware will come with UEFI Secure Boot
enabled, it will need a preloaded image containing either pre-BootHole
revocation database. Shim needs to be updated before the revocation
database or the system will not boot.

If this preload image is also going to form the basis for a recovery
partition, this is a bigger concern because it'd be rendered
unbootable once the revocation database is pushed. Fedora hasn't
decided to push the revocation database automatically, but other
distros do so aggressively. Microsoft has thus far delayed pushing the
post-BootHole revocation db, but eventually they will sometime this
year.


-- 
Chris Murphy
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark Pearson]

On 20/01/2021 15:30, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Wed, 2021-01-20 at 17:11 +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:44 PM Mark Pearson  wrote:
>>
>>> Release cadence is once. We just can't update our preload images that
>>> often - there's a long test cycle, and energy certification that goes
>>> with that image. It's one of the reasons the X1C8 is still shipping with
>>> Fedora32, and P1G3 and P15 (soon!) will be with F33 for a long time. The
>>> only reason to update would be a critical bug that couldn't be fixed
>>> with an update once the platform was received.
>>>
>>
>> If the cadence is once in a long time (related to new hardware
>> introductions, so possibly once a year or similar), I think the best
>> approach here is to have releng manually trigger an F33 Workstation Live
>> image compose using the current updates repo. Assuming it's not a problem
>> for them. We (the QA) can then trigger an OpenQA test run on it, create the
>> release validation test matrices for it, and even ask the community in
>> large to perform some manual tests if they have time. I believe some of us
>> would devote some time to make sure at least the basics work correctly. I'm
>> not sure if all the plumbing for this one-off compose is ready (in fedfind,
>> relval, openqa and wherever else needed), but Adam will know more.
> 
> Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
> suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
> candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
> be hard for releng to run that, and I should be able to run openQA
> tests and even create a validation event if necessary, I might need to
> metaphorically whang a few things with a hammer because it won't quite
> fit the normal flows but it shouldn't be a big deal.
> 
That would be awesome and very much appreciated :) Let me know anything
we can do to help

Mark
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Adam Williamson]

On Wed, 2021-01-20 at 17:11 +0100, Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:44 PM Mark Pearson  wrote:
> 
> > Release cadence is once. We just can't update our preload images that
> > often - there's a long test cycle, and energy certification that goes
> > with that image. It's one of the reasons the X1C8 is still shipping with
> > Fedora32, and P1G3 and P15 (soon!) will be with F33 for a long time. The
> > only reason to update would be a critical bug that couldn't be fixed
> > with an update once the platform was received.
> > 
> 
> If the cadence is once in a long time (related to new hardware
> introductions, so possibly once a year or similar), I think the best
> approach here is to have releng manually trigger an F33 Workstation Live
> image compose using the current updates repo. Assuming it's not a problem
> for them. We (the QA) can then trigger an OpenQA test run on it, create the
> release validation test matrices for it, and even ask the community in
> large to perform some manual tests if they have time. I believe some of us
> would devote some time to make sure at least the basics work correctly. I'm
> not sure if all the plumbing for this one-off compose is ready (in fedfind,
> relval, openqa and wherever else needed), but Adam will know more.

Yeah, I don't think that should be really tricky for anyone. I'd
suggest we just run it as a post-release nightly compose rather than a
candidate and don't give it any kind of label. I don't think it should
be hard for releng to run that, and I should be able to run openQA
tests and even create a validation event if necessary, I might need to
metaphorically whang a few things with a hammer because it won't quite
fit the normal flows but it shouldn't be a big deal.

Also, I forgot to mention it'll obviously be completely impossible for
this to work without Lenovo shipping me some hardware for,
uh...testing. Yup. That's definitely non-negotiable. Two of everything.
:D
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net


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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark Pearson]

On 20/01/2021 13:05, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 1:04 PM Mark Pearson 
> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> As Matthew mentioned - 5.10.8 is coming out soon and whether that
>> ties into this too? Any recommendations from the community as to
>> which fixes are important etc happy to take on board. The HW
>> testing we've done so far looks good - but that's not the whole
>> story.
>> 
> 
> While there are hardware fixes, the main reason for 5.10.8 being 
> important is that the Btrfs performance regression introduced in 
> 5.10.0 was fixed in that release. With this release, Btrfs I/O 
> performance is at least 50% higher than 5.9 across virtually all 
> workloads.
> 
Nice! Looks like it's already landed in stable (and it's now running on
my P15...)

Picking that up sounds good to me

Mark
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Neal Gompa]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 1:04 PM Mark Pearson  wrote:
>
>
> On 20/01/2021 11:11, Kamil Paral wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:44 PM Mark Pearson  > > wrote:
> >
> > Release cadence is once. We just can't update our preload images that
> > often - there's a long test cycle, and energy certification that goes
> > with that image. It's one of the reasons the X1C8 is still shipping with
> > Fedora32, and P1G3 and P15 (soon!) will be with F33 for a long time. The
> > only reason to update would be a critical bug that couldn't be fixed
> > with an update once the platform was received.
> >
> >
> > If the cadence is once in a long time (related to new hardware
> > introductions, so possibly once a year or similar), I think the best
> > approach here is to have releng manually trigger an F33 Workstation Live
> > image compose using the current updates repo. Assuming it's not a
> > problem for them. We (the QA) can then trigger an OpenQA test run on it,
> > create the release validation test matrices for it, and even ask the
> > community in large to perform some manual tests if they have time. I
> > believe some of us would devote some time to make sure at least the
> > basics work correctly. I'm not sure if all the plumbing for this one-off
> > compose is ready (in fedfind, relval, openqa and wherever else needed),
> > but Adam will know more.
> >
> > I don't want to just repeat Adam's words, but I'd like to stress out
> > that from the security perspective, such a compose should really be
> > created using the proper Fedora Infra tooling (or Lenovo itself using
> > official Fedora bits). I don't want to belittle the people standing
> > behind the unofficial Live respins, they are doing a great and useful
> > work, but if this is going to be shipped preinstalled to thousands of
> > customers, the whole process should be as verifiable as with our
> > official releases.
> >
>
> Thanks Kamil,
>
> My preference would be to have a build that comes from Fedora with
> Fedora's blessing rather than something we put together :) Partly so we
> don't screw it up but also as part of the "we don't mess with the Fedora
> image" thing - if we get the image from you then it reinforces that.
>
> I know our timelines right now are quite tight - I'd like to get the
> image into test before Chinese New Year happens - though I'm looking at
> the calendar and wondering how optimistic I'm being How big a deal
> is creating an official compose? Is it days/weeks/months? At the moment
> I'd like it by start of Feb (with a bit of wriggle room)
>
> As Matthew mentioned - 5.10.8 is coming out soon and whether that ties
> into this too? Any recommendations from the community as to which fixes
> are important etc happy to take on board. The HW testing we've done so
> far looks good - but that's not the whole story.
>

While there are hardware fixes, the main reason for 5.10.8 being
important is that the Btrfs performance regression introduced in
5.10.0 was fixed in that release. With this release, Btrfs I/O
performance is at least 50% higher than 5.9 across virtually all
workloads.



-- 
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: [External] Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark Pearson]

On 20/01/2021 11:11, Kamil Paral wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:44 PM Mark Pearson  > wrote:
> 
> Release cadence is once. We just can't update our preload images that
> often - there's a long test cycle, and energy certification that goes
> with that image. It's one of the reasons the X1C8 is still shipping with
> Fedora32, and P1G3 and P15 (soon!) will be with F33 for a long time. The
> only reason to update would be a critical bug that couldn't be fixed
> with an update once the platform was received.
> 
> 
> If the cadence is once in a long time (related to new hardware
> introductions, so possibly once a year or similar), I think the best
> approach here is to have releng manually trigger an F33 Workstation Live
> image compose using the current updates repo. Assuming it's not a
> problem for them. We (the QA) can then trigger an OpenQA test run on it,
> create the release validation test matrices for it, and even ask the
> community in large to perform some manual tests if they have time. I
> believe some of us would devote some time to make sure at least the
> basics work correctly. I'm not sure if all the plumbing for this one-off
> compose is ready (in fedfind, relval, openqa and wherever else needed),
> but Adam will know more.
> 
> I don't want to just repeat Adam's words, but I'd like to stress out
> that from the security perspective, such a compose should really be
> created using the proper Fedora Infra tooling (or Lenovo itself using
> official Fedora bits). I don't want to belittle the people standing
> behind the unofficial Live respins, they are doing a great and useful
> work, but if this is going to be shipped preinstalled to thousands of
> customers, the whole process should be as verifiable as with our
> official releases.
> 

Thanks Kamil,

My preference would be to have a build that comes from Fedora with
Fedora's blessing rather than something we put together :) Partly so we
don't screw it up but also as part of the "we don't mess with the Fedora
image" thing - if we get the image from you then it reinforces that.

I know our timelines right now are quite tight - I'd like to get the
image into test before Chinese New Year happens - though I'm looking at
the calendar and wondering how optimistic I'm being How big a deal
is creating an official compose? Is it days/weeks/months? At the moment
I'd like it by start of Feb (with a bit of wriggle room)

As Matthew mentioned - 5.10.8 is coming out soon and whether that ties
into this too? Any recommendations from the community as to which fixes
are important etc happy to take on board. The HW testing we've done so
far looks good - but that's not the whole story.

Thanks!
Mark
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Kamil Paral]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 6:44 PM Mark Pearson  wrote:

> Release cadence is once. We just can't update our preload images that
> often - there's a long test cycle, and energy certification that goes
> with that image. It's one of the reasons the X1C8 is still shipping with
> Fedora32, and P1G3 and P15 (soon!) will be with F33 for a long time. The
> only reason to update would be a critical bug that couldn't be fixed
> with an update once the platform was received.
>

If the cadence is once in a long time (related to new hardware
introductions, so possibly once a year or similar), I think the best
approach here is to have releng manually trigger an F33 Workstation Live
image compose using the current updates repo. Assuming it's not a problem
for them. We (the QA) can then trigger an OpenQA test run on it, create the
release validation test matrices for it, and even ask the community in
large to perform some manual tests if they have time. I believe some of us
would devote some time to make sure at least the basics work correctly. I'm
not sure if all the plumbing for this one-off compose is ready (in fedfind,
relval, openqa and wherever else needed), but Adam will know more.

I don't want to just repeat Adam's words, but I'd like to stress out that
from the security perspective, such a compose should really be created
using the proper Fedora Infra tooling (or Lenovo itself using official
Fedora bits). I don't want to belittle the people standing behind the
unofficial Live respins, they are doing a great and useful work, but if
this is going to be shipped preinstalled to thousands of customers, the
whole process should be as verifiable as with our official releases.
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 09:20:54AM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> we do. If it's just a once-per-cycle thing, we could maybe just have
> releng manually fire a post-release compose with a live image profile
> in it, and I can manually schedule openQA tests for that compose.

I actually have an unrelated use-case: we're getting some higher-end USB
sticks for swag and I'd love to also put an updated image on those.

If we can use the same one, that'd be super-extra bonus. It'd be kind of
nice to wait for 5.8.10 to exit updates-testing but I'm not sure how that
works with Mark's timeline.

-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Julen Landa Alustiza]

Good morning,

21/1/19 16:52(e)an, Peter Robinson igorleak idatzi zuen:

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 3:50 PM Matthew Miller  wrote:


A large computer vendor with whom we have a friendly relationship would like
to update the image they're shipping on their systems so that 1) new users
don't have quite so many updates immediately and 2) auiu newer kernel helps
with some upcoming things *vague vague handwavy vague*.

I can think of four possibilities:

1. Sure, use the live-respins!

2. The live-respins are unofficial, but we have run [this specific
workstation iso] through our standard validation tests and we
recommend it for your use.

3. Use the netinstall and choose "apply updates" (or whatever that option is
called) when making your distribution image.

4. Uh, sorry, we got nothin'.


In all cases, they will run through their own internal testing and
validation. And, because of calendar things, they'd really love an answer
before the 26th of this month, which I know is short notice.

Of the above, I think #2 is the best, but requires someone other than me to
do significant work. So, I'm raising it here. :)


If they're doing the QE the #2 option isn't too hard, what artifact do
they need, the iso installer or the live image, something else?


Actually we already test the respins: 
https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/tests/overview?distri=fedora=33=FedoraRespin-33-updates-20210114.0=1

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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Mark Pearson]

On 19/01/2021 12:20, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Tue, 2021-01-19 at 10:50 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
>> A large computer vendor with whom we have a friendly relationship would like
>> to update the image they're shipping on their systems so that 1) new users
>> don't have quite so many updates immediately and 2) auiu newer kernel helps
>> with some upcoming things *vague vague handwavy vague*.
>>
>> I can think of four possibilities:
>>
>> 1. Sure, use the live-respins!
>>
>> 2. The live-respins are unofficial, but we have run [this specific
>>    workstation iso] through our standard validation tests and we 
>>    recommend it for your use.
>>
>> 3. Use the netinstall and choose "apply updates" (or whatever that option is
>>    called) when making your distribution image.
>>
>> 4. Uh, sorry, we got nothin'.
>>
>>
>> In all cases, they will run through their own internal testing and
>> validation. And, because of calendar things, they'd really love an answer
>> before the 26th of this month, which I know is short notice.
>>
>> Of the above, I think #2 is the best, but requires someone other than me to
>> do significant work. So, I'm raising it here. :)
> 
> So we kicked this around in the internal team meeting today, and we
> have a thought and a question:
> 
> 1. We're not too keen on just using the respins as-is. They're really
> pretty unofficial: they're not built by infra, and they're not built
> the same way we build 'official' images. That's fine for something we
> just kinda let sit there and say "hey use it if you want to", but it's
> not really appropriate for something a Large Computer Vendor would be
> deploying on thousands of boxes sold to the public. It seems better to
> be deploying actually-official Fedora bits on those.
> 
> 2. What's the expected cadence, here? Are they wanting a respin every
> week or maybe one per cycle? Because that seems likely to affect what
> we do. If it's just a once-per-cycle thing, we could maybe just have
> releng manually fire a post-release compose with a live image profile
> in it, and I can manually schedule openQA tests for that compose.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
I think it's fine to note that this request is from Lenovo...and
guessing which platform it's for shouldn't be a stretch of the imagination.

Some background: We need the latest kernel/alsa/pulse/libfprint and
their dependencies for supporting the new 2021 HW - and as we'll be
(hopefully) releasing before F34 is available we're looking for
F33+updates and the best way to provide that in a way that works for the
community and our preload process.

We'll definitely be doing testing on it - from my experience rather a
lot of testing. We've been doing a bunch of that already (and as an
aside so far it's looking good - still some issues to resolve but
they're more in the firmware space).

I'm confirming with the team (I don't do much myself with preloads) but
I think the Live image gives us everything we need so is a good
candidate - but of course thumbs up from the Fedora community would be
great and recommendations are appreciated.

My aim is to keep the image as "Fedora official" as possible. We stand
by the fact that we don't release modified Fedora - there aren't Lenovo
add-ins. Everything must come from the Fedora repository - but it's just
we need the most recent updates and hope to deliver that cleanly.

Release cadence is once. We just can't update our preload images that
often - there's a long test cycle, and energy certification that goes
with that image. It's one of the reasons the X1C8 is still shipping with
Fedora32, and P1G3 and P15 (soon!) will be with F33 for a long time. The
only reason to update would be a critical bug that couldn't be fixed
with an update once the platform was received.

We're happy to go with whatever the community recommends - and my
apologies for the short time frame. It's always going to be a little bit
of a balancing act as fixes come in upstream at the last minute and I
want the release that goes on the HW to be as good as it can possibly be.

Hope that makes sense. Holler if I've missed anything - my aim is not to
dump more work on you guys either :)

Mark
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Adam Williamson]

On Tue, 2021-01-19 at 10:50 -0500, Matthew Miller wrote:
> A large computer vendor with whom we have a friendly relationship would like
> to update the image they're shipping on their systems so that 1) new users
> don't have quite so many updates immediately and 2) auiu newer kernel helps
> with some upcoming things *vague vague handwavy vague*.
> 
> I can think of four possibilities:
> 
> 1. Sure, use the live-respins!
> 
> 2. The live-respins are unofficial, but we have run [this specific
>    workstation iso] through our standard validation tests and we 
>    recommend it for your use.
> 
> 3. Use the netinstall and choose "apply updates" (or whatever that option is
>    called) when making your distribution image.
> 
> 4. Uh, sorry, we got nothin'.
> 
> 
> In all cases, they will run through their own internal testing and
> validation. And, because of calendar things, they'd really love an answer
> before the 26th of this month, which I know is short notice.
> 
> Of the above, I think #2 is the best, but requires someone other than me to
> do significant work. So, I'm raising it here. :)

So we kicked this around in the internal team meeting today, and we
have a thought and a question:

1. We're not too keen on just using the respins as-is. They're really
pretty unofficial: they're not built by infra, and they're not built
the same way we build 'official' images. That's fine for something we
just kinda let sit there and say "hey use it if you want to", but it's
not really appropriate for something a Large Computer Vendor would be
deploying on thousands of boxes sold to the public. It seems better to
be deploying actually-official Fedora bits on those.

2. What's the expected cadence, here? Are they wanting a respin every
week or maybe one per cycle? Because that seems likely to affect what
we do. If it's just a once-per-cycle thing, we could maybe just have
releng manually fire a post-release compose with a live image profile
in it, and I can manually schedule openQA tests for that compose.

Thanks!
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA
IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha
https://www.happyassassin.net


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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Ben Cotton]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 11:14 AM Neal Gompa  wrote:
>
> Is there a reason we can't make option 4 to be: officially create OEM
> images and create an OEM preload guide?

Timeline mostly. It's certainly something we could do in the future.

-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 11:12:29AM -0500, Neal Gompa wrote:
> Is there a reason we can't make option 4 to be: officially create OEM
> images and create an OEM preload guide? I don't personally know how
> preloads work, even though I'm trying to figure out how to improve
> "preloaded Fedora" experience over the next couple of cycles for
> Fedora KDE.
> 
> It might also make sense to make either monthly or quarterly
> full recomposes with updates for downstreams with all the artifacts,
> similar to how Microsoft used to do "rollup images" to support OEM
> preloads.

We totally _could_, if someone is willing to add that commitment to their
workload. Depending on the scope (x86_64 Workstation only, say) it isn't
*gigantic* but it's not like it's trivial.


-- 
Matthew Miller

Fedora Project Leader
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Neal Gompa]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 10:50 AM Matthew Miller
 wrote:
>
> A large computer vendor with whom we have a friendly relationship would like
> to update the image they're shipping on their systems so that 1) new users
> don't have quite so many updates immediately and 2) auiu newer kernel helps
> with some upcoming things *vague vague handwavy vague*.
>
> I can think of four possibilities:
>
> 1. Sure, use the live-respins!
>
> 2. The live-respins are unofficial, but we have run [this specific
>workstation iso] through our standard validation tests and we
>recommend it for your use.
>
> 3. Use the netinstall and choose "apply updates" (or whatever that option is
>called) when making your distribution image.
>
> 4. Uh, sorry, we got nothin'.
>

Is there a reason we can't make option 4 to be: officially create OEM
images and create an OEM preload guide? I don't personally know how
preloads work, even though I'm trying to figure out how to improve
"preloaded Fedora" experience over the next couple of cycles for
Fedora KDE.

It might also make sense to make either monthly or quarterly
full recomposes with updates for downstreams with all the artifacts,
similar to how Microsoft used to do "rollup images" to support OEM
preloads.




--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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Re: Respins for OEM preloads

[Peter Robinson]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021 at 3:50 PM Matthew Miller  wrote:
>
> A large computer vendor with whom we have a friendly relationship would like
> to update the image they're shipping on their systems so that 1) new users
> don't have quite so many updates immediately and 2) auiu newer kernel helps
> with some upcoming things *vague vague handwavy vague*.
>
> I can think of four possibilities:
>
> 1. Sure, use the live-respins!
>
> 2. The live-respins are unofficial, but we have run [this specific
>workstation iso] through our standard validation tests and we
>recommend it for your use.
>
> 3. Use the netinstall and choose "apply updates" (or whatever that option is
>called) when making your distribution image.
>
> 4. Uh, sorry, we got nothin'.
>
>
> In all cases, they will run through their own internal testing and
> validation. And, because of calendar things, they'd really love an answer
> before the 26th of this month, which I know is short notice.
>
> Of the above, I think #2 is the best, but requires someone other than me to
> do significant work. So, I'm raising it here. :)

If they're doing the QE the #2 option isn't too hard, what artifact do
they need, the iso installer or the live image, something else?
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