Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Apropos Bob Goldman's observation, I will mention that my paper on Bhīṣma, the MBh's instantiation of Dyaus, discussed the irreonciliable conflict between Bhīṣma and Ambā as some kind of shadow of the earlier juxtaposition of Dyaus and Pṛthivī. Things were better for this God in heaven, before he

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Thanks for the very useful replies. On Thursday, June 2, 2022at 09:19:28 PM GMT+5:30, Caley Smith wrote: >Thanks! Parenthoodhas been amazing so far. >It's not lost on methat as a new father I am making a lot of >claims about heavenlyfatherhood.   Yes, I noticed thatcoincidence too.

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Prof. Hock is of course quite right. However, perhaps one should add that although figure of Dyaus is already obviously going out of worship even in the RV, his function as sky/storm divinity has been largely transferred to Indra in particular, as the latter's worship becomes more central to

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Dear Dean, Thanks! Parenthood has been amazing so far. It's not lost on me that as a new father I am making a lot of claims about heavenly fatherhood. Regarding the claim that "the importance of a dyaus pitar can't even really be reconstructed to the Indo-Iranian level," what I mean is that

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

First, congratulations to Caley on the newborn! Thanks to everyone for the useful and insightful comments.Thanks to Hans Henrich for giving me some valuable pointers to look further into the situation regarding Dyaus, Zeus, Jupiter, and the sadly mysterious Germanic Tiu.Thanks to Caley and

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

d Asuras and Devas', in the Fritz Staal FS *On > Meaning and Mantras*, 2016. > Best wishes > John > -- > *From:* INDOLOGY on behalf of Caley > Smith via INDOLOGY > *Sent:* 31 May 2022 20:19 > *To:* Hock, Hans Henrich > *Cc:* Indology &g

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Smith via INDOLOGY Sent: 31 May 2022 20:19 To: Hock, Hans Henrich Cc: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater? I understand, but it nevertheless seems relevant to the notion of "origin and fate" of a collocation if it's importance and u

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

On Meaning and Mantras, 2016. Best wishes John From: INDOLOGY on behalf of Caley Smith via INDOLOGY Sent: 31 May 2022 20:19 To: Hock, Hans Henrich Cc: Indology Subject: Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater? I understand

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

I understand, but it nevertheless seems relevant to the notion of "origin and fate" of a collocation if it's importance and use in most branches of PIE is vastly different than 2 branches taken, perhaps ad hoc, as representing some original or default state. That's all I wished to express. Best,

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

What Dean was talking about is the specific word dyau.h and the collocation dyau.s pitā, the latter of which is compared to Greek zeus patēr and Lat. iuppiter. Obviously there are many other deities connected with the sky, but that was not the point of the query and the response All the best

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

I agree with Caley. Best wishes for the newborn! Joanna --- Prof. dr hab. Joanna Jurewicz Katedra Azji Południowej /Chair of South Asia Studies Wydział Orientalistyczny / Faculty of Oriental Studies Uniwersytet Warszawski /University of Warsaw ul. Krakowskie Przedmieście 26/28 00-927

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

It seems to me speaking of an Indic diminishing of a dyaus pitar as maybe jumping the gun. There are plenty of heavenly figures (tvastr and savitar are often characterized as deva/divya) but the importance of a dyaus pitar can't even really be reconstructed to the indo-Iranian level. Important

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Thanks, Dean. This is not something that I have actively worked on. My impression is that there may be a fair amount of disagreements. But checking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_mythology#Sky_Father yields several references to well-known scholars: * West, Martin

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Thanks Hans Henrich, I was aware that he was not widely mentioned in RV but I hadn't thought of the ramifications of that until your post. I realize this may be the wrong place to ask this, but are you aware of any studies on the origin and fate of Dyaus/Zeus/Tiu across or within the other

Re: [INDOLOGY] the late fate of the the Rig Vedic Dyaus Pater?

Dear Dean, Even in the RigVeda dyauṣ pitṛ appears only six times; dyauḥ by itself, of course, occurs frequently, but often in feminine gender. In addition, there is the compound dyāvāpṛthivī. So, while dyauṣ pitṛ (and his relation to pṛthivī mātṛ) may be important from the perspective of