OK- Lets take a look at basically the biggest, most well paid, most recognized electronic artists today.
trance: oakenfold, sasha digweed (white) techno: carl cox? (black) jungle: goldie (black) its not a black / white thing its a geographic thing (uk/usa) and that's because the uk has the mechanisms in place to promote their artsit more than america does. or maybe a genre thing, ppl just like trance better. and you can't have a superstar black trance dj, well...i can't think of any black trance djs. enough with your whining. enough with your late 80's/early 90's nostalgia if i read the story of the bellvue 3 one more time, i'll puke. there is an entire decade of detroit history since them, but it never gets told because every major article on techno is weighed down by that story (valuble inch space) you want to support detroit, support recloose (his new album is deep, innventive and thought provoking.) support tadd mullinex (amazing IDM that has more Detroit soul than you can imagine.) quit hacking away at the old shit. i like it. i like listening to it. but i am so sick of hearing about it. On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, laura gavoor wrote: > More appropriately a study of the RECURRING and cyclical pattern of > de-evolution and propaganda with regard to Black American artists. The past > is over and can never be repeated....or can it......?? > > What has been discussed has been due to the fact THAT THERE ARE NO black > American DANCE artists of any number nowadays, sporting the same opportune > major label distribution or recognition as their white counterparts...of > whatever aspect of dance music they represent. If they are producing > electronically driven dance music, are known and American...chances are > they've got a pretty good situation with a major American label. > > What came before has set today's climate in this industry. There are NO > BLACK Rock n'Roll artists today...FOR A VERY GOOD REASON. They were > eliminated from the playing field a long time ago,but once upon a time the > music was THEIRS alone born and bred. No one could tell me that all Black > American rock n' roll musicians/bands...just disappeared. There are probably > still black rock bands trying to get signed that will NEVER be afforded the > opportunity in today's America. Why?? Because they aren't smart enough or > talented enough? Please someone factually contradict this phenome with even > the smallest example....Alan? > > The game is old...competition...dirty pool...whatever you wish to call > it....but it/the past solidly outlines what is to come--if we let it. > > Okay, Carl Craig's with Caroline...King Britt has made it to radio...anybody > else??? Anybody? Kool Keith??? He's frustrated as hell and gits no > marketing support (or radio play) from his label and therefore will remain > right where he is. Who else? Let's update this to present day and back up > our discussion/argument with facts. > > My tirade was in response to lack of respect for those 313 trail-blazing > artists, business peeps, record store owners and promoters that came before > affording a way for the young and inexperienced types on this list to > presume expertise about garnering success in this country. Most of you have > no clue of what these artists/peeps have gone through or what they are faced > with TODAY in order to sell product. > > I'll wager that, just within the dance music arena, that there are even LESS > black artists with major label deals/ties TODAY then there were back in the > "dusty" (according to Josh) days of Juan Atkins/Lil Louis. Just within > electronic dance musics' major categories (House, Techno, Dn'B...) Let's > keep this mainstream american labels/mainstream subs only, K? > > How is this relevant to the so-called underground?...again microcosm to the > macroeconomics of the entertainment industry at large in this country. If > artists like Blaze, (is this recent enuff?) once signed to Motown failed at > getting exposure and radio play for their product even while housed in a > major....what chance, then, do the independents have to facilitate/develop > market base or penetration to sell their product to potential fans in > America? > > Whether you accept this or not...that is their goal--SALES and market > penetration...not just ot be coolly exclusive for y'all to selfishly > consume. > > Answering that, begs further questioning...do some of you presume that their > product WOULDN'T be taken to or enjoyed by said potential audience? Cuz the > success that we independents have garnered (as well as this thread) have > proven that a fallacy. > > Independent (mostly public and college) radio actively play our products > which gives a little hope and exposure for new sales/market penetration. > But again, opportunities afforded us are the result of 20 or 30 TIMES the > work of our counter-parts and non-ethnic competition. > > Roll call....for dance music artists either signed to or with major label > distribution....everyone submit/post those that you know. While I have > preference for good music of any color..I'm rather certain this discussion > will still break out skewed in favor of non-ethnic (politically correct > enuff?) artists, both good..mostly bad, based in this country. > > Because of the severe lack of support and active dis-interest, our mission > in establishing a base of potential buyers and fans has always been two-fold > in educating people about 'who is Juan Atkins?..' (yes, we still need to do > that Josh). Marketing against the machine/grain with unknown artists who > happened to be highly celebrated elsewhere.......makes for a looooong day's > work that most of you have GROSSLY taken for granted here. > > Moreover, here's a challenge to those listees who claim expertise having > accomplished VERY little. When this 'dusty 'discussion was actually an > everyday existence (even though it still is current), there were no second > hand stories/books or american media coverage of these artists and this > movement to substantiate any "interest". Since the early-mid 90's this has > certainly turned around dramatically affording people like Dan Sicko, Simon > Reynold's, Hobey Eichlin and Mike Rubin and various others the opportunity > to cover or relate interesting stories and get paid. Most did so most > graciously, (some not) respectfully listening and were true to a mission. > > Same with most of the club owners..promoters, etc. Face it, you're not > unique, you're following a trend ESTABLISHED BY OTHERS and making a good > living at it...so try to be a BIT gracious. Black promoters in Detroit are > becoming a thing of the past forced out by more well-heeled, mostly white > competition, as are the indie mom/pop record stores. Thank goodness for the > Record Times, Vibes, Somewhere in Detroit and now fewer and fewer black and > indie owned record stores in the city. > > Is there no audience interested in an in-depth study (of all that we've > discussed here) and frank discussion with current black american artists > (perhaps like Blaze) to see what the challenges are for independent artists > and labels producing and trying to sell their product in America? Or are > the American trade mags simply full of fluff and payola coverage for their > major advertisers...much like U.S. radio?? > > Maybe I'm the only one(?) But it would appear that Lil Kim, Yoko Ono (talk > about dusty...much less undeserving) and gigantic S&D rave-o-rama's and > fashion dance are more important to Mixer's (a good example).....machine > driven audience. > > Dollar for dollar, I'm still more interested in what Billboard's got to say > in print than most of the other American trade mags put together because it > is relevant to my business...not merely a reporting of who's hot and who's > not or who's on tour. This loyalty stems from the very first Billboard > disco conventions back in the 70's and they have always kept us abreast of > SOME aspect of our business. > > I understand the need for fluff, but I also need veritable business > information relevant to the cause of growth and progress in our business. > We started the game and are increasingly under represented now it seems. > Generally speaking..under-representation via communication vehicles means > WAY more work. > > People...report the facts. We need to address this issue intelligently and > soberly (apparently passion is only for those now fleeting dancefloor > moments??) There are still huge barriers to overcome which can only be > accomplished in communing and joining mental and informative forces. > > Please PROVE this to be incorrect!!! Most of you are too quick to criticize > and hair-split semantics...where FACTual debating should occur. > > set it out. > > > >All I'm trying to address is the fact that this entire debate (and all the > >threads that started with Laura's original tirade) have almost exclusivly > >addressed older artist (Juan Atkins, Lil Louis...)and what 'could' have > >been. > > WELL THEN, WHAT WILL BE? > > > >There are plenty of good underground artist who have had prosperous and > >creative careers since the first wave hit its peak. > > PLENTY?? WHO AND TO WHAT DEGREE?? > ARE THEIR RECORD SALES PENETRATING IN AMERICA AND DRAMATICALLY IMPROVING > EACH YEAR?? > > > >A great example would be Felix Da Housecat. Here's a guy who released his > >first record (Phantasy Girl) in 1987. His carer went up and down, and he > >is just now 'breaking-out' with his current record. And he's doing it on > >an indie label 'Emperor Norton' > > > > >The point is, there are ways for artist to prosper, parallel to the same > > WHICH WAYS ARE THOSE?? > > >industry that supports 'mainstream' acts like Sasha and Digweed (who still > >aren't that mainstream- my dave matthews listening brother has never heard > >of them) > > > >that is all. AND IT WASN'T MUCH. > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
