It is unfortunate that the present progressive and rights based exam writing guidelines are being tinkered with. Instead of modifications, it should have been uniformly implemented all over the country.
If some problems were being observed, arrangements should have been made for stronger invigilation. May be a complete video + audio recording of each blind candidate with scribe could be done. It is not so expensive and I think cost is anyway not the reason for the changes being proposed. The videos of successful candidates could then be evaluated and compared with the answer sheets. The fear of being in complete CCTV surveillance would deter much of the wrong practices. These days the election voting, some court hearings, interrogations etc. are being video graphed. why can't the same government agree for video graphy of exams? If not this, why cant the government appoint invigilator for each blind candidate or at least one invigilator for 2 blind candidates. Accessibility of the question paper and method of evaluation is a separate issue which needs to be pursued with each examining body in parallel. Imagine the government appointed pool of scribes offering the blind candidates additional service on some payment. If blind candidates are being accused of malpractices, the scribe pool can also become corrupt with time. Who wants to give a guarantee that knowledge is related to academic qualifications only? Why can't a less qualified person be capable of solving questions of a higher exam? and in the same way are all post graduates capable of doing well in the class 12 exams even now? Fixing scribe qualifications is not a good idea, it will not solve the problem. thanks, Prashant -----Original Message----- From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of Sudeshna Bhattacharya Sent: 27 June 2018 15:05 To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues concerning the disabled. <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines Hi Friends, On reading this very interesting and extremely useful discussion, I could not stop from expressing my observations and view there of. Firstly in a country like India where there is a huge number of unemployed youth, it will not be that easy to curb malpractices of various types in writing exams. We are thinking of malpractices that can be caused by using scribes by VI candidates only, but it can happen with any other candidates as well by any other type of wrong attitude.. So why to stop VI candidates from choosing scribe of their own as it was before? Is it the only malpractice going on while writing any exam?Here I’d like to mention that I don’t support malpractices by VI but when finding a scribe itself is a great challenge- particularly in semi urban or rural areas, putting even more restriction will make the chance of getting a scribe even more limited.. Secondly I feel, even if the exam authority can build up a pool of scribes and provides scribe mandatorily to the candidates who are to use their services,is there any guarantee that every one of them will be of same qualification or merit? Moreover if a VI candidate finds a scribe provided by the authority not suitable for him / her to write the exam only two days before the exam, how the authority will provide him / her a suitable one within that very short time?won’t it be an extreme injustice towards him / her and don’t you feel it will create a tremendous mental pressure on the candidate? Thirdly, if we think the case of any exam for any other people, aren’t there any differences amongst the candidates in regard to qualification and merit? E. g. in any clerical exam do all the candidates hold the same HS qualification? Still lots of HS candidates are appearing the exam knowing fully well that there is very high possibility of many candidates with much higher degree and efficiency being his / her competitor. isn’t it? Fourthly, if we talk about professional scribes and malpractices caused by them, lowering educational qualification doesn’t seem to be a viable solution because in that case, persons interested to be a scribe in profession, will learn the subjects of competitive exams only irrespective of their qualification and master it. Hence putting restriction on scribe selection can neither rule out the possibility of malpractice, nor the use of professional scribes’ service. Fifth, digital media like EVM, audio recorder for submitting exam papers is a time taken process in Indian Infrastructural scenario and its efficiency is also debatable. Finally, when our objective is to see the well being of the VI community as a whole, and at the same time getting a suitable scribe is really tough task,just in an attempt to eliminate malpractice and use of professional scribes, I think, instead of putting restriction on scribe selection process and blaming our own community for using unethical means, we should rely on the basic ethics of our own community and prepare for the exams to come. the scribe selection should be with the candidates only to ensure availability and prior exam interaction. The responsibility to curb the malpractice should lie with the exam authority’s stringent invigilation as well. For providing Independent writing experience to the candidates, the online exam platform should be fully accessible and the specified computers should be equipped with open source assistive softwares. All your criticisms against my view are most welcome. Thanks and regards, Sudeshna Bhattacharya On 6/27/18, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > In reply to your 2.At the harshest level I can suggest that you ask > the Examining Authorities to get you a writer. Also there is a rule of > not less than matriculation. So 9th standard is not required. > As far as 3 is concerned yes your brother will have different level > of writer. > This is to prevent your brother from having a overqualified scribe. > Please understand that this matter has been going on for 12 years. We > are reviewing the 2013 guidelines only because some of us decided to > circumvent the law .. ----- Kanchan -----Original Message----- > From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On > Behalf Of Yogesh Chhabra > Sent: 26 June 2018 19:23 > To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues > concerning the disabled. > Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines > > respected members and kanchan mam, > after reading the proposed guidelines I have some queries and > situations which I am unable to see the solutions, 1, according to the > proposed guidelines, the scribe should be one class below the > candidates qualification then suppose if I am a language student like > German and I am appearing for my first year exam. At this time who > will be my scribe? whom should I take as a scribe for my first year > examination? I am asking this because no one can read german or any > other language and according to this situation I need to take one > class lower scribe, that means in my case the 12th standard or below > 12th class student. similarly, there are many courses in JNU and other > universities like French, Spanish, ETC. who will be the scribe for such > students in their first year course? > 2. If I am a student of 11th standard and I have taken maths as one of > my subject then I have to take 10th standard student as my scribe, but > at the time of my examinations, the 10th standard students are also > having their examination so I have no choice and I have to take 9th > standard student to write my math examination. here the situation is > that the 11th standard math and 9th standard's math is totally > different and most of the things will be new for the scribe and he > will find it difficult to read it for me. so in this situation, who will be > my scribe? > 3. suppose me and my brother are appearing for the railway examination > and we both are visually impaired. my qualification is post graduate > and my brother's qualification is 12th standard and both are eligible > for this examination. according to the proposed scribe guidelines, I > can take the scribe who is pursuing post graduation and my brother can > take the 11th standard scribe only. > This situation will occur in the SSC 12th standard higher secondary > level examination also. > > so friends, what are the solutions for these situations? > > On 6/26/18, Siva Suresh <sivasureshka...@gmail.com> wrote: >> waw! amazing discussion. it was very helpful and people will be >> greatly benifited if we have a strong guidelines for getting scribes. >> at the same time we should support the people who are talking on our >> behalf. I thank Kanchan for your great effort to support every >> visually impaired friends across india. it was a very helpful >> discussion for every one. >> >> Thank you. Shivasuresh >> >> >> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Shweta please don’t say you cant get a scribe because the >>> Authorities are saying that they will provide and we don’t have to worry. >>> All my effort will go to nought. >>> K >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On >>> Behalf Of Shweta Mishra >>> Sent: 26 June 2018 16:30 >>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues >>> concerning the disabled. >>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines >>> >>> but bhawani sir, it'll be very difficult for many candidates to get >>> a good studying scribe,because these days, students are very busy in >>> their own assignments. then how will they be able to give their >>> precious time to some one? >>> >>> On 6/26/18, bhawani shankar verma <bsvermad...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> the qualification of the scribe should be one standard less what >>>> the post requires not the qualification of candidate. if a clerk >>>> exam requires minimum 12th pass then the scribe should be at 11th standard. >>>> no matter the education of candidate whether is PHD or 12th. this >>>> means a PHD qualified candidate can bring 11th pass person for scribe. >>>> only the regular students or studying candidates should be allowed >>>> as scribe. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Shweta Mishra >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 3:34 PM >>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues >>>> concerning the disabled. >>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines >>>> >>>> right Kanchan mam. >>>> but according to me, if a PHD candidate is allow to bring a >>>> graduate scribe, then the twelfth passed candidate should also be >>>> allowed to bring graduate scribe. >>>> >>>> On 6/26/18, Kanchan Pamnani <kanchanpamn...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> No Harish. Shweta was more right than you. >>>>> So lets go with the clerk example. >>>>> >>>>> There are 2 candidates-one has a PHD and one is a12th pass. >>>>> The12th pass can get a scribe who is not a 12th pass. The PHD can >>>>> get a scribe who is not a PhD but definitely more than a 12 pass. >>>>> Sounds unfair but actually it might solve this problem of >>>>> professional writers. >>>>> Kanchan >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] >>>>> On Behalf Of Kotian, H P >>>>> Sent: 26 June 2018 14:44 >>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues >>>>> concerning the disabled. >>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines >>>>> >>>>> Hi >>>>> If I understand the scenario correct for example the post is for a >>>>> clerk for which the minimum qualification is HSC, there are 2 >>>>> candidates one a post graduate and another a HSC. The >>>>> qualification to consider for the job is HSC and not the >>>>> qualification of the candidate. >>>>> Therefore the qualification for a scribe should not be HSC passed >>>>> in this case. >>>>> >>>>> I am aware the minimum qualification for clerk is no more HSC. >>>>> Mentioned it for illustration purpose. >>>>> >>>>> Harish. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] >>>>> On Behalf Of Shweta Mishra >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2018 1:51 PM >>>>> To: AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues >>>>> concerning the disabled. <accessindia@accessindia.org.in> >>>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Scribe guidelines >>>>> >>>>> hi friends! >>>>> it means, scribe criteria will be different for for candidates >>>>> with different qualification. >>>>> for example, a post graduate and a twelfth passed candidate is >>>>> appearing for the same competitive exam, then what will be scribe >>>>> criteria for both candidates? >>>>> if a post graduate candidate will bring graduate scribe, then >>>>> won't it be injustice to the twelfth passed candidate? because >>>>> twelfth passed candidate will be allowed to bring maximum eleventh >>>>> passed scribe. >>>>> >>>>> On 6/26/18, Lyngdoh <cornelyng...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> Can someone help me out with scribe for SBI PO 2018 exams... I >>>>>> mean what qualification shall I ask for from my to be scribe then? >>>>>> In the past I have always looked for graduates. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/26/18, Asudani, Rajesh <rajeshasud...@rbi.org.in> wrote: >>>>>>> Congrats! >>>>>>> Retention of capacity to choose own scribe, though less in >>>>>>> qualification than oneself, along with freedom to use devices, >>>>>>> and meet the scribe two days in advance is a superb victory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At least folks now at least, stop using professional scribes. >>>>>>> Accessible exams, if online or computerized, is the ultimate dream. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> सादर / With thanks & Regards >>>>>>> राजेश आसुदानी Rajesh Asudani >>>>>>> सहायक महाप्रबन्धक AGM >>>>>>> बाजार आसूचना ईकाई MIU >>>>>>> भारतीय रिजर्व बैंक Reserve Bank of India नागपुर Nagpur >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 0712 2806846 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> President >>>>>>> VIBEWA >>>>>>> Co-Moderator >>>>>>> VIB-India >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A-pilll = Action coupled with Positivity, Interest, Love, Logic >>>>>>> and laughter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: AccessIndia >>>>>>> [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Kanchan Pamnani >>>>>>> Sent: 25 June 2018 16:18 >>>>>>> To: 'AccessIndia: a list for discussing accessibility and issues >>>>>>> concerning the disabled.' >>>>>>> Subject: [AI] Scribe guidelines >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sorry folks for not reporting for 2 days. A lot of you have >>>>>>> already heard what happened but let me explain a few issues >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. You all know that in 2013 we got new guidelines for the use >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> scribes. This was far and beyond what had been given by Courts >>>>>>> and definitely more than what we had demanded at different times. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. So far about one year there was not too much of a problem >>>>>>> because >>>>>>> no one really implemented the guidelines. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3. Then the penny dropped-U PS C and others started saying that >>>>>>> these >>>>>>> guidelines were unfair. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 4. Some of our own VI candidates decided that these guidelines >>>>>>> gave >>>>>>> them the right to have overqualified or should I say coached writers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 5. Our other VI who suffered because of the special writers >>>>>>> complained >>>>>>> to U P S C and to the Courts-Bombay and Eranakulam I am told. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 6. Then the Government set up our committee. We met about 3 >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> could not agree so the MSJE set up a sub-committee. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 7. This subcommittee gave a report which we had to discuss at >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> meeting on 20th June. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 8. I had shared the sub-committee's report and the comments of >>>>>>> U >>>>>>> PS >>>>>>> C >>>>>>> and SSC. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 9. Our meeting started an hour and half late because the >>>>>>> Secretary >>>>>>> had >>>>>>> gone to meet the Minister. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 10. Before she came in the other committee members gave >>>>>>> theiropinion >>>>>>> on >>>>>>> the subcommittees report. Only Mr. Rungta and I were left to >>>>>>> give our comments when the Secretary arrived and we started the >>>>>>> formal meeting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 11. It was quite a hot debate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 12. The problem with govt agencies is that they don't send the same >>>>>>> person >>>>>>> to the followup meetings. This includes U P S C and our own NIVH. >>>>>>> This hampers progressive discussion and we cannot pin the >>>>>>> representative down. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 13. There was no problem with compensatory time etc. The >>>>>>> recommendations >>>>>>> of the Sub-committee were accepted. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 14. So what have we won or should I say retained-the first right of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> candidate to choose his scribe. If not available then the >>>>>>> Examining body can provide not less than a matriculate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 15. Further you can meet your scribe 2 days in advance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 16. Some other devices etc for other disabilities that can be >>>>>>> used.Our >>>>>>> committee added to Sub committee recommendations. This added to >>>>>>> the original guidelines. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 17. The only problem with the subcommittee's suggestion is that >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> not allowing you to use your own laptop. I however feel that >>>>>>> this should not be in the guidelines. I know atleast 2 members >>>>>>> on this list who have used their own laptops and didn't have a >>>>>>> problem after explanations. This may be considered to be a loss >>>>>>> and squarely attributable to the subcommittee. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 18. Now the loss that will bother us some day-the scribe has to be >>>>>>> less >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> qualification than the candidate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 19. So this guideline has got nothing to do with the exam but only >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> the candidate. Keeping in mind that the minimum educational >>>>>>> qualification for a scribe is matriculation. This does not sound >>>>>>> too bad but ground realities will tell. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 20. So the meeting ended about three and half hours later with 2 >>>>>>> cups >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> tea and 4 biscuits thrown in. The Secretary will have to report >>>>>>> to the courts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 21. The fact that we have the right to choose our own scribe is >>>>>>> going >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> be debated over and over again until we stop the malpractises >>>>>>> and each of you reading my email or whatsapp need to take care >>>>>>> of the situation. You are responsible for what lies ahead. I >>>>>>> know the argument about supervision. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 22. It is not an easy task to take the whole room on by just 2 >>>>>>> people. >>>>>>> We >>>>>>> did it because you gave us strength. We were prepared and many >>>>>>> weren't. >>>>>>> However it has taken lots of persuasion, anger, raised voices >>>>>>> and a lot of diplomacy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 23. What will let us down is the continuous use of professional >>>>>>> scribes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 24. Please help by giving me the reference to the Bombay High Court >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> Eranakulam cases. We will have to intervene. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 25. Thanks to each of you who respond to my urgent requests and >>>>>>> give >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> input on these crucial issues. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 26. It has been 12 years battling this menace. I wish I dint have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> face >>>>>>> a meetingwhere I am told that my people are cheating. I further >>>>>>> wish that none of my people suffer because of bad scribes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kanchan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >>>>>>> https://www.avg.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Search for old postings at: >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send a message to >>>>>>> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in >>>>>>> with the subject unsubscribe. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other >>>>>>> changes, please visit the list home page at >>>>>>> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia. >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> g.in >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Disclaimer: >>>>>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the >>>>>>> thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates >>>>>>> itself to its veracity; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. 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AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >>> mails sent through this mailing list.. >>> >> >> >> -- >> thank you and warm regards. >> shivasuresh. >> reach me through the following means >> mobile no. 9550437181. >> e- mail I D sivasureshka...@gmail.com skype I D sivasuresh.katta >> hyderabad >> >> >> >> >> Search for old postings at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ >> >> To unsubscribe send a message to >> accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in >> with the subject unsubscribe. >> >> To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, >> please visit the list home page at >> http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.or >> g >> .in >> >> >> Disclaimer: >> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking >> of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its >> veracity; >> >> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the >> mails sent through this mailing list.. >> > > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org > .in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking > of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its > veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > mails sent through this mailing list.. > > > > > > Search for old postings at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ > > To unsubscribe send a message to > accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in > with the subject unsubscribe. > > To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, > please visit the list home page at > http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org > .in > > > Disclaimer: > 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking > of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its > veracity; > > 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the > mails sent through this mailing list.. > Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list.. Search for old postings at: http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/ To unsubscribe send a message to accessindia-requ...@accessindia.org.in with the subject unsubscribe. To change your subscription to digest mode or make any other changes, please visit the list home page at http://accessindia.org.in/mailman/listinfo/accessindia_accessindia.org.in Disclaimer: 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity; 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent through this mailing list..
