On 11/16/2016 9:08 AM, Kepeng Li wrote:
Hello all,
We had a long discussion about group communication security topic
since the previous F2F meeting.
Hannes and I have tried to make a summary about the discussion as follows:
· The solution needs to define both, symmetric and an asymmetric
group key solution.
There is no case (absent hardware mitigation) in which a symmetric group
key solution can be made secure/safe and no one has made an offer of
proof that they can make it secure. I've asked repeatedly - no one
has come forward with more than "oh we can lock the symmetric key stuff
in a corner and make sure it isn't used for anything important".
Given the recent attacks on the internet by IOT botnets, there is a
further consideration that should be undertaken - whether the symmetric
group key solution applied to 10s of 1000s of IOT devices is an active
threat to the rest of the internet (e.g. enabling DDOS, cyber physical
issues, etc)?
The multiparty (group) symmetric key solution is only wanted for a
single corner of the solution space - low latency, no cost systems. E.g.
lightbulbs. Given there is a worked example of the insecurity of
multiparty symmetric key systems (e.g. the attack on the symmetric
signing key of the HUE lights), I'm unclear why anyone at all would
think that pursuing a known bad solution in the IETF is a good idea.
· The security consideration section needs to explain under what
circumstances what solution is appropriate.
Security consideration sections generally only address the threat *to*
the system from security choices. In this case, symmetric key group
comms reduces down to the same security analysis you would use with
shared default passwords across 1000s of devices. An IOT security
consideration section in the future probably needs to address the threat
*FROM* the IOT solution to the broader internet.
Mike
If this is not accurate, please let us know.
Kind Regards
Kepeng & Hannes
BTW: it is a pity that I can't attend this meeting due to personal
reasons, and hope you all have a nice meeting in Seoul!
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