Laura,
It doesn't matter what the boot order is. Most servers have an
internal Raid configuration that doesn't kick in until after the machine
goes through it's start up and by them it has found the USB and not the
hard disks.
And yes I have this on two of my servers.
Bob Anderson
IT Guy
Kent Sporting Goods
433 Park Ave. S
New London OH 44851
419-929-7021 x315
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laura A.
Robinson
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:52 AM
To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies
What's the boot order in the BIOS on those machines?
Laura
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Albert Duro
> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:54 AM
> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies
>
> Ah, that brings up another interesting point. I use USB external hard
> drives too, and I've found that some WinXP and
> Server2003 machines will not boot if a USB hard drive is attached--I
> have to remember to turn it off while booting.
> Anyone else seen this?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies (was) Exchange Log files
> --Disk
> Full--
>
>
> > No tape drives here. If it has a USB connection we are in business.
> >
> >
> > Albert Duro wrote:
> >> Yes, BE does do disk backup. But I have some objections:
> >> A. They don't make it easy, infact they make an unnecessarily
> >> complicated production of it.
> >> B. I started doing NTBackup to disk while (and because)
> I was still
> >> troubleshooting BE. When I gave up on BE and its
> brethren, NTBackup
> >> was a natural segway, and already in place and working.
> >> C. I discovered one great advantage that
> NTBackup-to-disk has over
> >> any other backup system: with a bit of planning, it is
> proof against
> >> almost any combination of crash and burn. You have a
> backup file on
> >> two or more disks/machines. Things go bad, you can do
> recovery from
> >> any Windows machine; you can move or copy the backup
> disks/files to
> >> any machine. Try doing that with a sophisticated tape-based or
> >> SAN-based system. Imagine having to replace the tape
> >> drive/autoloader with the exact same type, while rebuilding a
> >> same-hardware three-year old server to the exact same
> configuration,
> >> same SPs, same backup software, same drivers. I can
> guarantee that
> >> at least one of those necessary replacement elements will be
> >> impossible to find, even under leisurely conditions. [1]
> Yes, there
> >> are strategies to deal with that, but if you could spend
> that kind of
> >> money, you would have gotten a double-redundant
> bullet-proof system in the first place.
> >> I truly hope that I'm wrong out of lack of knowledge and
> pessimism.
> >> I am open to being corrected and encouraged.
> >> [1] Naturally, the tape drive drivers will be on the same
> tape that
> >> you can't access nohow. Download the drivers from the
> OEM, you say?
> >> Chances are excellent that the OEM has gone out of
> business, or sold
> >> out to a giant who prunes out what they don't like (and what you
> >> need), or changed the name or version number on it out of sheer
> >> orneryness. If you do get to what looks like the right drivers,
> >> you're likely to find that the last minor upgrade version
> that really
> >> worked well for you has been dropped, or tweaked into your trouble
> >> zone. I can testify to ALL these experiences. I think
> others can too.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:27 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies (was)
> Exchange Log
> >> files --Disk Full--
> >>
> >> Trying to remember exactly, but doesn't BE have an
> option to use
> >> disk vs. tape drives?
> >>
> >> You *could* run a test to help simplify and rule out
> some of the
> >> complexity. Could take a while, but might be worth it.
> >>
> >> Al
> >>
> >> On 11/2/06, *Albert Duro* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Why does NTBackup work for me and BE not, when they are at
> >> core the same product?
> >> I wondered about that too. Here are my thoughts.
> >> First, NTBackup is a simpler product that doesn't
> get tangled
> >> up with the complexities of scheduling and a GUI.
> >> But the real reason, I think, is that I've been doing
> >> NTBackups to disk, while BE was to tape.
> >> I've always suspected that most, if not all of my
> difficulties
> >> with BE had to do with the drivers for the tape drives and
> >> autoloaders, and with the SCSI interface to other devices
> >> ('other' being anything beyond the normal HD and CD
> >> complement)
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:11 AM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk
> >> Full--
> >>
> >> Well put Albert. Thanks for that feedback.
> >> What still has me curious is why BE wouldn't
> work in your
> >> environment and why ntbackup does (partially
> at least).
> >> ntbackup as written by the same exact people and has a lot
> >> of the same code (it's licensed by Microsoft
> from Seagate
> >> last I checked). Ntbackup is the less featured version
> >> designed for single host backups and extended
> to act like
> >> it does more.
> >>
> >> So that said, I agree that the goal is that
> your client's
> >> data is backed up. I have to say that I disagree that
> >> jury-rigs, mickey mouse and by the seat of
> your pants is
> >> the long term solution though. That's an
> infrastructure
> >> component that will come back to haunt at some
> point down
> >> the road. As an interim fix, of course it can
> work. I'm
> >> not blinded by the big vendors to the point
> that I think
> >> they have the only solution. Far from it.
> But I like to
> >> think that I can at least share some perspective and
> >> experience related to where it leads and I definitely
> >> favor technology over layer8 processes. Why? Because
> >> layer8 changes and grows out of current positions and
> >> foundational solutions should not have to be decimated
> >> when that happens. I've seen that way too
> often to care
> >> to see it continue where possible.
> >>
> >> Basically, I hate to see a foundational
> solution such as
> >> backup, rely on such complexity and human
> intervention. I
> >> completely understand that you have to do what
> you have to
> >> do. When you wrote it in your original email,
> it sounded
> >> like you approved of that method. Reading
> this last one,
> >> I can you don't. I was just trying to point out where
> >> that leads and trying to understand how you go
> there. I
> >> bet I would have gotten there the same way you did ;)
> >>
> >> Best of luck getting that worked out.
> >> If you need anything from me, please don't hesitate. I
> >> have been known to make some backup solutions work :)
> >> Feel free to ping off-line if I can be of any help.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/31/06, *Albert Duro* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Al, since you ask, no I don't see it
> differently, at
> >> least not at the oratorical level. But where the
> >> rubber meets the road, things can look
> very different.
> >> Like the military say, the best laid plan
> falls apart
> >> the moment it meets the enemy. You assume that I
> >> monkey around with Ntbackup and balky media for
> >> economic reasons. In fact, we spared no expense
> >> (relative to our small size) to put in
> >> industrial-strength backup systems, both
> software and
> >> hardware. Even paid consultants to set it up and
> >> manage it.
> >> It blew up in our faces. Primarily because Backup
> >> Exec just wouldn't work right in our environment.
> >> (I'm not saying that BE isn't a fine product, it would
> >> just never work for us). Why not? Don't know -- I
> >> couldn't figure it out. Our consultants couldn't
> >> figure it out. Veritas support couldn't
> either, nor
> >> the autoloader manufacturer. For more
> than two years,
> >> nobody could figure it out, until I decided to stop
> >> throwing good money after bad.
> >> Did I try alternative products? In the same class,
> >> yes -- more tales of woe, but different
> reasons. We
> >> did not nor are we going to buy the
> high-end systems,
> >> which cost more than our whole network is worth.
> >> So I was left with NTBackup, and admittedly a
> >> little more gun-shyness about brand-name backup
> >> products than is strictly rational. That's what I
> >> have to work with, and I try to make the
> best of it.
> >> That's the 'real world' in my little corner of it.
> >> Believe me, when you and joe and others on
> this list
> >> urge us to 'make the best', I listen, I
> learn, and I
> >> applaud. And it does push me in that
> direction. But
> >> the only path there goes through 'make the best of
> >> what you've got'. It's bumpy and often barricaded.
> >> But after all is said and done, the REAL
> point is that
> >> I am preserving my clients' data and keeping them
> >> happy. Jury-rigs, mickey mouse, and
> by-the-pants not
> >> withstanding.
> >>
> >> -- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:30 AM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files
> >> --Disk Full--
> >>
> >> sub-optimal media are part of the real world?
> >> Wow, thanks :)
> >> Truth be told, that's a rant of mine.
> I've heard
> >> a lot (lately especially) about how we
> want to do
> >> things cheap and inexpensive and we'll fix it
> >> later and so on. I've also spent a
> great deal of
> >> time cleaning up that kind of stuff.
> >> Unfortunately, once it escapes into the "real
> >> world" then it becomes more difficult
> to clean up
> >> because you have to do so in front of
> >> customers/clients.
> >> Interesting approach though. Usually a less
> >> disciplined from what I've seen and
> often results
> >> in more expense related to downtime and
> >> troubleshooting and lack of service. I'm
> >> interested if you see differently though.
> >> This area of the business fascinates me....
> >>
> >> On 10/28/06, *Albert Duro*
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm sure you and Susan are right. All I'm
> >> saying is that it *can* happen, and for me,
> >> why take the chance when
> one-job/one-task is
> >> easy to do.
> >> Good point about the media, and that may
> >> explain my case, but, hey,
> sub-optimal media
> >> situations are part of the real world.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Al Mulnick
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28,
> 2006 6:33 AM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log
> >> files --Disk Full--
> >>
> >> I've not had that same experience.
> >> Granted, it's a limited feature utility
> >> (note the use of the word
> utility vs. tool
> >> as requested) but it's still capable of
> >> doing more. There were some fixes to
> >> ntbackup in service packs and
> such. You
> >> might want to verify you're using the
> >> latest version of that's what you see.
> >> Also, check the media it's headed to.
> >> It's error handling is not very elegant,
> >> but I've found it to be useful
> and strong
> >> enough to stand up to some
> complex tasks
> >> in the past. I've got several
> running now
> >> via cli that have been in
> place for more
> >> than half a year without issue
> (I know, I
> >> know, spend all that money on an
> >> enterprise backup system only to backup
> >> some machines locally. But there are
> >> times when it makes more
> sense, trust me.)
> >> -ajm
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/27/06, *Albert Duro*
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've found, with NTbackup,
> that if you
> >> cram two or more tasks
> into a backup
> >> job, it's very likely to fail. For
> >> example, if you do a
> System State and
> >> a file backup and an
> Exchange backup
> >> in the same job. It's best to
> >> separate each task into
> its own job,
> >> and sort it out in the scheduling.
> >> A mixed job will also work
> for a while
> >> and then fail, which
> sounds like what
> >> happened to OP.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> *From:* Wells, James Arthur
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> *To:*
> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >>
> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Cc:* Technical Support
> >>
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> *Sent:* Thursday,
> October 26, 2006
> >> 2:21 PM
> >> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir]
> >> Exchange Log files
> --Disk Full--
> >>
> >> Do you have multiple
> information
> >> stores on this storage group?
> >> (If using Exchange Enterprise
> >> edition)...the logs can't flush
> >> until all stores have a full
> >> backup, because the logs are
> >> shared...
> >> --James
> >>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >> *From:*
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> [mailto:
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> >> *On Behalf Of
> *Technical Support
> >> *Sent:* Thursday,
> October 26, 2006
> >> 3:16 PM
> >> *To:*
> >> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >>
> >> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>;
> >> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >>
> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir]
> >> Exchange Log files
> --Disk Full--
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> I am running Normal
> Backup. Using
> >> NTBackup Utility. Backing up
> >> Information store.
> >>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >> *From:*
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> on behalf of Missy Koslosky
> >> *Sent:* Thu 10/26/2006 12:49 PM
> >> *To:*
> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >>
> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir]
> >> Exchange Log files
> --Disk Full--
> >>
> >> Are you running full
> (AKA normal)
> >> backups every night?
> It seems not.
> >> Use NTBackup to backup to disk
> >> (obviously, you'll need a disk
> >> with over 120GB of available
> >> space) and then use whatever
> >> normal program you use to back
> >> that backup onto tape.
> This will
> >> keep you running until you sort
> >> out why your normal backup
> >> software isn't
> flushing the logs
> >> when the backup completes.
> >> How are you currently running
> >> backups? What software
> is in use?
> >> Are you sure it's
> Exchange aware?
> >> Are you doing brick
> level backups
> >> or copy backups
> instead of a full
> >> backup? Neither will
> flush the logs.
> >> I'd resolve this as quickly as
> >> possible, because if
> you are in a
> >> situation where you
> have to replay
> >> the logs, you're NOT
> going to be a
> >> happy camper.
> >>
> >>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >> *From:*
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> [mailto:
> >>
> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
> >> *On Behalf Of
> *Technical Support
> >> *Sent:* Thursday,
> October 26, 2006
> >> 11:09 AM
> >> *To:*
> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org
> >>
> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>
> >> *Subject:* [ActiveDir] Exchange
> >> Log files --Disk Full--
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >> Kindly suggest, what i can do
> >> about my Exchange Log files?
> >> I have about 120 GB
> Log files for
> >> past 4 months. I have
> a few doubts:-
> >> Do i really need all
> those log
> >> files?
> >> If yes, Then how is it
> possible to
> >> manage with this as i
> have a very
> >> limited space left.
> >> Can i delete these log files?
> >> Backup doesnt remove
> these log files?
> >> i am really running
> out of space
> >> on my Exchange log
> storage drive.
> >> *Thanks!!!*
> >> Ravi
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx
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> > List archive:
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>
>
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