Susan, How did you do that I would love to be able to reboot with a worry.
Bob IT Guy -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP] Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 3:04 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies And on my DC I removed the USB drive as a boot device. So now I can be at home in my jammies and remotely reboot the server with no issues and it will reboot just fine. Bob Anderson wrote: > Laura, > Yea that on bit me big time. Had our Domain Controller running and > added a USB Drive all was fine. Along came Microsoft with the darned > Updates and there 'Computer Must be restarted' Well it restarted > alright and would not reboot. Talked to IBM Server Support for 4 > hours be for I finally figured it out myself. That was the only time > I ever taught something to them and not the other way around. > > I have since update the restart procedure to say 'Power off the USB > drive before the system restarts.' > > > Bob > IT Guy > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laura A. > Robinson > Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:41 AM > To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org > Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies > > Umm, that was kinda the point I was trying to make, Bob. :-) > > Laura > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Anderson >> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:09 AM >> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies >> >> Laura, >> It doesn't matter what the boot order is. Most servers have an >> internal Raid configuration that doesn't kick in until after the >> machine goes through it's start up and by them it has found the USB >> and not the hard disks. >> >> And yes I have this on two of my servers. >> >> Bob Anderson >> IT Guy >> Kent Sporting Goods >> 433 Park Ave. S >> New London OH 44851 >> 419-929-7021 x315 >> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Laura A. >> Robinson >> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:52 AM >> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >> Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies >> >> What's the boot order in the BIOS on those machines? >> >> Laura >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Albert Duro >>> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:54 AM >>> To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies >>> >>> Ah, that brings up another interesting point. I use USB >>> >> external hard >> >> >>> drives too, and I've found that some WinXP and >>> Server2003 machines will not boot if a USB hard drive is >>> >> attached--I >> >>> have to remember to turn it off while booting. >>> Anyone else seen this? >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Susan Bradley, CPA aka Ebitz - SBS Rocks [MVP]" >>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: <ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:02 PM >>> Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies (was) Exchange >>> >> Log files >> >>> --Disk >>> Full-- >>> >>> >>> >>>> No tape drives here. If it has a USB connection we are >>>> >> in business. >> >>>> Albert Duro wrote: >>>> >>>>> Yes, BE does do disk backup. But I have some objections: >>>>> A. They don't make it easy, infact they make an unnecessarily >>>>> complicated production of it. >>>>> B. I started doing NTBackup to disk while (and because) >>>>> >>> I was still >>> >>>>> troubleshooting BE. When I gave up on BE and its >>>>> >>> brethren, NTBackup >>> >>>>> was a natural segway, and already in place and working. >>>>> C. I discovered one great advantage that >>>>> >>> NTBackup-to-disk has over >>> >>>>> any other backup system: with a bit of planning, it is >>>>> >>> proof against >>> >>>>> almost any combination of crash and burn. You have a >>>>> >>> backup file on >>> >>>>> two or more disks/machines. Things go bad, you can do >>>>> >>> recovery from >>> >>>>> any Windows machine; you can move or copy the backup >>>>> >>> disks/files to >>> >>>>> any machine. Try doing that with a sophisticated tape-based or >>>>> SAN-based system. Imagine having to replace the tape >>>>> drive/autoloader with the exact same type, while rebuilding a >>>>> same-hardware three-year old server to the exact same >>>>> >>> configuration, >>> >>>>> same SPs, same backup software, same drivers. I can >>>>> >>> guarantee that >>> >>>>> at least one of those necessary replacement elements will be >>>>> impossible to find, even under leisurely conditions. [1] >>>>> >>> Yes, there >>> >>>>> are strategies to deal with that, but if you could spend >>>>> >>> that kind of >>> >>>>> money, you would have gotten a double-redundant >>>>> >>> bullet-proof system in the first place. >>> >>>>> I truly hope that I'm wrong out of lack of knowledge and >>>>> >>> pessimism. >>> >>>>> I am open to being corrected and encouraged. >>>>> [1] Naturally, the tape drive drivers will be on the same >>>>> >>> tape that >>> >>>>> you can't access nohow. Download the drivers from the >>>>> >>> OEM, you say? >>> >>>>> Chances are excellent that the OEM has gone out of >>>>> >>> business, or sold >>> >>>>> out to a giant who prunes out what they don't like (and >>>>> >> what you >> >>>>> need), or changed the name or version number on it out of sheer >>>>> orneryness. If you do get to what looks like the right drivers, >>>>> you're likely to find that the last minor upgrade version >>>>> >>> that really >>> >>>>> worked well for you has been dropped, or tweaked into >>>>> >> your trouble >> >>>>> zone. I can testify to ALL these experiences. I think >>>>> >>> others can too. >>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 02, 2006 3:27 PM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] OT - Backup Follies (was) >>>>> >>> Exchange Log >>> >>>>> files --Disk Full-- >>>>> >>>>> Trying to remember exactly, but doesn't BE have an >>>>> >>> option to use >>> >>>>> disk vs. tape drives? >>>>> >>>>> You *could* run a test to help simplify and rule out >>>>> >>> some of the >>> >>>>> complexity. Could take a while, but might be worth it. >>>>> >>>>> Al >>>>> >>>>> On 11/2/06, *Albert Duro* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Why does NTBackup work for me and BE not, when >>>>> >> they are at >> >>>>> core the same product? >>>>> I wondered about that too. Here are my thoughts. >>>>> First, NTBackup is a simpler product that doesn't >>>>> >>> get tangled >>> >>>>> up with the complexities of scheduling and a GUI. >>>>> But the real reason, I think, is that I've been doing >>>>> NTBackups to disk, while BE was to tape. >>>>> I've always suspected that most, if not all of my >>>>> >>> difficulties >>> >>>>> with BE had to do with the drivers for the tape >>>>> >> drives and >> >>>>> autoloaders, and with the SCSI interface to other devices >>>>> ('other' being anything beyond the normal HD and CD >>>>> complement) >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* Al Mulnick <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 01, 2006 6:11 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files --Disk >>>>> Full-- >>>>> >>>>> Well put Albert. Thanks for that feedback. >>>>> What still has me curious is why BE wouldn't >>>>> >>> work in your >>> >>>>> environment and why ntbackup does (partially >>>>> >>> at least). >>> >>>>> ntbackup as written by the same exact people and has a lot >>>>> of the same code (it's licensed by Microsoft >>>>> >>> from Seagate >>> >>>>> last I checked). Ntbackup is the less >>>>> >> featured version >> >>>>> designed for single host backups and extended >>>>> >>> to act like >>> >>>>> it does more. >>>>> >>>>> So that said, I agree that the goal is that >>>>> >>> your client's >>> >>>>> data is backed up. I have to say that I >>>>> >> disagree that >> >>>>> jury-rigs, mickey mouse and by the seat of >>>>> >>> your pants is >>> >>>>> the long term solution though. That's an >>>>> >>> infrastructure >>> >>>>> component that will come back to haunt at some >>>>> >>> point down >>> >>>>> the road. As an interim fix, of course it can >>>>> >>> work. I'm >>> >>>>> not blinded by the big vendors to the point >>>>> >>> that I think >>> >>>>> they have the only solution. Far from it. >>>>> >>> But I like to >>> >>>>> think that I can at least share some perspective and >>>>> experience related to where it leads and I definitely >>>>> favor technology over layer8 processes. Why? Because >>>>> layer8 changes and grows out of current positions and >>>>> foundational solutions should not have to be >>>>> >> decimated >> >>>>> when that happens. I've seen that way too >>>>> >>> often to care >>> >>>>> to see it continue where possible. >>>>> >>>>> Basically, I hate to see a foundational >>>>> >>> solution such as >>> >>>>> backup, rely on such complexity and human >>>>> >>> intervention. I >>> >>>>> completely understand that you have to do what >>>>> >>> you have to >>> >>>>> do. When you wrote it in your original email, >>>>> >>> it sounded >>> >>>>> like you approved of that method. Reading >>>>> >>> this last one, >>> >>>>> I can you don't. I was just trying to point >>>>> >> out where >> >>>>> that leads and trying to understand how you go >>>>> >>> there. I >>> >>>>> bet I would have gotten there the same way you did ;) >>>>> >>>>> Best of luck getting that worked out. >>>>> If you need anything from me, please don't >>>>> >> hesitate. I >> >>>>> have been known to make some backup >>>>> >> solutions work :) >> >>>>> Feel free to ping off-line if I can be of any help. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/31/06, *Albert Duro* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Al, since you ask, no I don't see it >>>>> >>> differently, at >>> >>>>> least not at the oratorical level. But where the >>>>> rubber meets the road, things can look >>>>> >>> very different. >>> >>>>> Like the military say, the best laid plan >>>>> >>> falls apart >>> >>>>> the moment it meets the enemy. You assume that I >>>>> monkey around with Ntbackup and balky media for >>>>> economic reasons. In fact, we spared no expense >>>>> (relative to our small size) to put in >>>>> industrial-strength backup systems, both >>>>> >>> software and >>> >>>>> hardware. Even paid consultants to set it up and >>>>> manage it. >>>>> It blew up in our faces. Primarily >>>>> >> because Backup >> >>>>> Exec just wouldn't work right in our >>>>> >> environment. >> >>>>> (I'm not saying that BE isn't a fine product, it would >>>>> just never work for us). Why not? >>>>> >> Don't know -- I >> >>>>> couldn't figure it out. Our consultants couldn't >>>>> figure it out. Veritas support couldn't >>>>> >>> either, nor >>> >>>>> the autoloader manufacturer. For more >>>>> >>> than two years, >>> >>>>> nobody could figure it out, until I >>>>> >> decided to stop >> >>>>> throwing good money after bad. >>>>> Did I try alternative products? In the >>>>> >> same class, >> >>>>> yes -- more tales of woe, but different >>>>> >>> reasons. We >>> >>>>> did not nor are we going to buy the >>>>> >>> high-end systems, >>> >>>>> which cost more than our whole network is worth. >>>>> So I was left with NTBackup, and admittedly a >>>>> little more gun-shyness about brand-name backup >>>>> products than is strictly rational. >>>>> >> That's what I >> >>>>> have to work with, and I try to make the >>>>> >>> best of it. >>> >>>>> That's the 'real world' in my little corner of it. >>>>> Believe me, when you and joe and others on >>>>> >>> this list >>> >>>>> urge us to 'make the best', I listen, I >>>>> >>> learn, and I >>> >>>>> applaud. And it does push me in that >>>>> >>> direction. But >>> >>>>> the only path there goes through 'make >>>>> >> the best of >> >>>>> what you've got'. It's bumpy and often >>>>> >> barricaded. >> >>>>> But after all is said and done, the REAL >>>>> >>> point is that >>> >>>>> I am preserving my clients' data and keeping them >>>>> happy. Jury-rigs, mickey mouse, and >>>>> >>> by-the-pants not >>> >>>>> withstanding. >>>>> >>>>> -- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Al Mulnick >>>>> >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >>>>> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 29, 2006 4:30 AM >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] Exchange Log files >>>>> --Disk Full-- >>>>> >>>>> sub-optimal media are part of the real world? >>>>> Wow, thanks :) >>>>> Truth be told, that's a rant of mine. >>>>> >>> I've heard >>> >>>>> a lot (lately especially) about how we >>>>> >>> want to do >>> >>>>> things cheap and inexpensive and we'll fix it >>>>> later and so on. I've also spent a >>>>> >>> great deal of >>> >>>>> time cleaning up that kind of stuff. >>>>> Unfortunately, once it escapes into the "real >>>>> world" then it becomes more difficult >>>>> >>> to clean up >>> >>>>> because you have to do so in front of >>>>> customers/clients. >>>>> Interesting approach though. Usually a less >>>>> disciplined from what I've seen and >>>>> >>> often results >>> >>>>> in more expense related to downtime and >>>>> troubleshooting and lack of service. I'm >>>>> interested if you see differently though. >>>>> This area of the business fascinates me.... >>>>> >>>>> On 10/28/06, *Albert Duro* >>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I'm sure you and Susan are >>>>> >> right. All I'm >> >>>>> saying is that it *can* happen, >>>>> >> and for me, >> >>>>> why take the chance when >>>>> >>> one-job/one-task is >>> >>>>> easy to do. >>>>> Good point about the media, and that may >>>>> explain my case, but, hey, >>>>> >>> sub-optimal media >>> >>>>> situations are part of the real world. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* Al Mulnick >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> *To:* ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 28, >>>>> >>> 2006 6:33 AM >>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [ActiveDir] >>>>> >> Exchange Log >> >>>>> files --Disk Full-- >>>>> >>>>> I've not had that same experience. >>>>> Granted, it's a limited feature utility >>>>> (note the use of the word >>>>> >>> utility vs. tool >>> >>>>> as requested) but it's still >>>>> >> capable of >> >>>>> doing more. There were some fixes to >>>>> ntbackup in service packs and >>>>> >>> such. You >>> >>>>> might want to verify you're using the >>>>> latest version of that's >>>>> >> what you see. >> >>>>> Also, check the media it's >>>>> >> headed to. >> >>>>> It's error handling is not very elegant, >>>>> but I've found it to be useful >>>>> >>> and strong >>> >>>>> enough to stand up to some >>>>> >>> complex tasks >>> >>>>> in the past. I've got several >>>>> >>> running now >>> >>>>> via cli that have been in >>>>> >>> place for more >>> >>>>> than half a year without issue >>>>> >>> (I know, I >>> >>>>> know, spend all that money on an >>>>> enterprise backup system >>>>> >> only to backup >> >>>>> some machines locally. But there are >>>>> times when it makes more >>>>> >>> sense, trust me.) >>> >>>>> -ajm >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/27/06, *Albert Duro* >>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>> >>>>> I've found, with NTbackup, >>>>> >>> that if you >>> >>>>> cram two or more tasks >>>>> >>> into a backup >>> >>>>> job, it's very likely to >>>>> >> fail. For >> >>>>> example, if you do a >>>>> >>> System State and >>> >>>>> a file backup and an >>>>> >>> Exchange backup >>> >>>>> in the same job. It's best to >>>>> separate each task into >>>>> >>> its own job, >>> >>>>> and sort it out in the >>>>> >> scheduling. >> >>>>> A mixed job will also work >>>>> >>> for a while >>> >>>>> and then fail, which >>>>> >>> sounds like what >>> >>>>> happened to OP. >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> *From:* Wells, James Arthur >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> *To:* >>>>> >>> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>> >>>>> *Cc:* Technical Support >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, >>>>> >>> October 26, 2006 >>> >>>>> 2:21 PM >>>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] >>>>> Exchange Log files >>>>> >>> --Disk Full-- >>> >>>>> Do you have multiple >>>>> >>> information >>> >>>>> stores on this >>>>> >> storage group? >> >>>>> (If using Exchange Enterprise >>>>> edition)...the logs >>>>> >> can't flush >> >>>>> until all stores have a full >>>>> backup, because the logs are >>>>> shared... >>>>> --James >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>>>> *From:* >>>>> >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> [mailto: >>>>> >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] >>>>> *On Behalf Of >>>>> >>> *Technical Support >>> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, >>>>> >>> October 26, 2006 >>> >>>>> 3:16 PM >>>>> *To:* >>>>> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org>; >>>>> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>> >>>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] >>>>> Exchange Log files >>>>> >>> --Disk Full-- >>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> I am running Normal >>>>> >>> Backup. Using >>> >>>>> NTBackup Utility. Backing up >>>>> Information store. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>>>> *From:* >>>>> >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> on behalf of Missy Koslosky >>>>> *Sent:* Thu >>>>> >> 10/26/2006 12:49 PM >> >>>>> *To:* >>>>> >>> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>> >>>>> *Subject:* RE: [ActiveDir] >>>>> Exchange Log files >>>>> >>> --Disk Full-- >>> >>>>> Are you running full >>>>> >>> (AKA normal) >>> >>>>> backups every night? >>>>> >>> It seems not. >>> >>>>> Use NTBackup to >>>>> >> backup to disk >> >>>>> (obviously, you'll >>>>> >> need a disk >> >>>>> with over 120GB of available >>>>> space) and then use whatever >>>>> normal program you >>>>> >> use to back >> >>>>> that backup onto tape. >>>>> >>> This will >>> >>>>> keep you running >>>>> >> until you sort >> >>>>> out why your normal backup >>>>> software isn't >>>>> >>> flushing the logs >>> >>>>> when the backup completes. >>>>> How are you >>>>> >> currently running >> >>>>> backups? What software >>>>> >>> is in use? >>> >>>>> Are you sure it's >>>>> >>> Exchange aware? >>> >>>>> Are you doing brick >>>>> >>> level backups >>> >>>>> or copy backups >>>>> >>> instead of a full >>> >>>>> backup? Neither will >>>>> >>> flush the logs. >>> >>>>> I'd resolve this as >>>>> >> quickly as >> >>>>> possible, because if >>>>> >>> you are in a >>> >>>>> situation where you >>>>> >>> have to replay >>> >>>>> the logs, you're NOT >>>>> >>> going to be a >>> >>>>> happy camper. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---------- >>> >>>>> *From:* >>>>> >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> [mailto: >>>>> >>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>> >>>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] >>>>> *On Behalf Of >>>>> >>> *Technical Support >>> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, >>>>> >>> October 26, 2006 >>> >>>>> 11:09 AM >>>>> *To:* >>>>> >>> ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> <mailto:ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org> >>> >>>>> *Subject:* >>>>> >> [ActiveDir] Exchange >> >>>>> Log files --Disk Full-- >>>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> Kindly suggest, >>>>> >> what i can do >> >>>>> about my Exchange Log files? >>>>> I have about 120 GB >>>>> >>> Log files for >>> >>>>> past 4 months. I have >>>>> >>> a few doubts:- >>> >>>>> Do i really need all >>>>> >>> those log >>> >>>>> files? >>>>> If yes, Then how is it >>>>> >>> possible to >>> >>>>> manage with this as i >>>>> >>> have a very >>> >>>>> limited space left. >>>>> Can i delete these log files? >>>>> Backup doesnt remove >>>>> >>> these log files? >>> >>>>> i am really running >>>>> >>> out of space >>> >>>>> on my Exchange log >>>>> >>> storage drive. >>> >>>>> *Thanks!!!* >>>>> Ravi >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>>> List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>>> List archive: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ >>>> >>> List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >>> List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >>> List archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ >>> >> List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >> List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >> List archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ >> List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx >> List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx >> List archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ >> > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx > List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx > List archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ > > List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/ List info : http://www.activedir.org/List.aspx List FAQ : http://www.activedir.org/ListFAQ.aspx List archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/activedir@mail.activedir.org/