"those who can do
those who can't Duchamp'
so I"m told.
John Cage does like you and me.
You do color form and space
I do color form and space
Cage does silent space and sound
Without material an process
both of us would be out of business
mando
On Sep 30, 2009, at 3:34 PM, William Conger wrote:
Enter John Cage, enter Duchamp. Mando just won't permit himself to
see that art does not reside in material or its process. So the
conversation is closed, inside his head.
wc
________________________________
From: armando baeza <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: armando baeza <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:19:44 PM
Subject: Re: Facture
Chris.
There are machines in every large city is the US and in every
industrial
Country on earth at present, that operate machines that give you an
exact duplicate of any object, in "any size" of one's choice.
Choice is the
only demand needed. A child can choose anything and have it enlarged
to monumental sizes, in any material, bronze ,stone, etc,, just by
choice and the means to pay for it, that is all. And claim it as
his original.
If that is ok for sculpture,would it be ok for Music, painting,
poetry?
That way , every Tom Dick and Mando can be creators of all the arts.
I will soon make use of that machine to enlarge one of "my"
sculptures.
The Difference will be that it will be a choice from my own
experiences,
not a choice of someone else's experience. I feel uniqueness can be
maintain, that way, for what ever reason of aesthetic value is
preserved.
mando
On Sep 30, 2009, at 6:40 AM, Chris Miller wrote:
If , as William says, "A claim is a claim and in the case of art,
all claims
are equal", then no claims are " universally validated by history,
art, or
practice", and the absence of such validation is irrelevant.
If you disagree with Mando's claim, all you can do is offer
examples of
"machine made art" (as Mando defines it) which you would call good
art.
But unfortunately, Mando's definition is "those who do very
realistic work
without any skill in the doing of it"
And how do you determine the presence or absence of skill, if
not by the
appearance of the results?
Which makes the discussion of "machine made" -- or really any
other kind of
"facture" --- just another art-talk attempt to make a personal
judgment sound
more important.
Mando doesn't like certain paintings and sculptures -- and since
he's spent
fifty years designing things, it can be important to know what
those are.
But his attempt to generalize those judgments with reference to
"machine made"
has gone nowhere.
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