On Nov 20, 2019, at 8:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net
<mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
Uh, yeah.
$10k doesn’t buy me enough functionality.
Would need 10 of those.
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Josh Baird
*Sent:*Wednesday, November 20, 2019 6:54 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] MPLS
Why? Price?
On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 7:53 PM Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>> wrote:
No thanks.
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Gino A. Villarini
*Sent:*Wednesday, November 20, 2019 5:12 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] MPLS
Time to grow up… Juniper ACX or Cisco ASR920
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> on behalf of Sterling Jacobson
<sterl...@avative.net <mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
*Reply-To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Date:*Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 4:10 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] MPLS
Well put.
Capacity/speed is an issue with me, so I think I introduced some
possible bottlenecks above 4.5Gbps using MPLS/VPLS in my own
network which is Mikrotik.
VPLS endpoints I don’t think were/are hardware offloaded, so
required some great CPU capacity at the edge and core for large
transport.
I also think I had MTU issues with so many layers of “layer2”
stuff going on inside and outside of MPLS tunnels, native
interfaces, VPLS endpoints, bridges and VRRP interfaces along
with VLAN at some endpoints.
However, with the right equipment (not Mikrotik) MPLS is fully
capable and large networks use them to diversely traverse
redundant paths back to a central core.
My problem also was geo-diverse BGP cores to different providers
as stated below.
I was running EVERYTHING on a Mikrotik 1072 CCR, lol!
It still drives me crazy hunting down issues where I still have
MPLS/OSPF/BGP/VRRP/VLAN on one device across multiple interfaces,
lol!
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Dennis Burgess via AF
*Sent:*Wednesday, November 20, 2019 12:56 PM
*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:*Dennis Burgess <dmburg...@linktechs.net
<mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net>>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] MPLS
You can, its up to you.
*Is routing faster on MikroTik by using MPLS/VPLS?*No
*Do you gain extra capacity by reducing the router load per
packet by using MPLS?* Yes, think looking at 4-bytes of data vs
40. Is it 10 fold increase, no but you get the point.
*What is the big deal about MPLS without VPLS? *Just that it does
get you a bit of extra capacity. Bout it.
*Why does everyone want to run VPLS?* VPLS gets you the IP and
subnet savings. You do need to design your core network
correctly to handle this. If you have a single core router and
all of your tunnels go to that, then yes if it goes down yes your
tunnels are down, but may of our customers have to have
redundancy, so multiple edges, connected to multiple cores,
connected to multiple VPLS termination boxes, connected to
multiple PPPoE servers. Etc. The core is VERY robust, but the
general network is not. This also does not work very well if
your have multiple geographically diverse BGP feeds, i.e.
everything goes back to the datacenter and that’s where it is,
great, but otherwise, it gets to the point that it not worth the
effort.
*L2VPNs? *Weill there are a few customers that prefer them, but
in all honestly there is better, more secure, and faster
protocols out there. Keep in mind that L2VPNs are fine if all of
the customers are on your network, but they seldom are, so you
will need a plan for those guys as well. My questions is why do
you build your network to deliver something that people don’t
want, a layer 2 network connection. If you are delivering Pipes
then sure, but you have to have the capacity and availability to
do so. Most Wisps, not all, don’t have this figured out. 99% of
the time, they can make more money by providing a managed L3
solution than L2 anyways.
**
*<image001.png>*
*Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium
ePMP Certified*
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
*Office*: 314-735-0270 Website:http://www.linktechs.net
<http://www.linktechs.net/>
Create Wireless Coverage’s withwww.towercoverage.com
<http://www.towercoverage.com/>
*From:*AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*Adam Moffett
*Sent:*Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:17 PM
*To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] MPLS
So do you tunnel everything back to the core and then do "router
on a stick" ?
On 11/20/2019 2:14 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
Yeap VPLS is where is at…
VPLS tunnels to the towers, CORE routing + L2VPN to
customers( Enterprise, Wholesale)
*Gino**Villarini**
*Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
m:
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
_www.aeronetpr.com_ | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304
Guaynabo, PR 00968<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
*From:AF_<af-boun...@af.afmug.com>_on behalf of Josh
Baird_<joshba...@gmail.com>_
Reply-To:AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group_<af@af.afmug.com>_
Date:Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 3:09 PM
To:AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group_<af@af.afmug.com>_
Subject:Re: [AFMUG] MPLS<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>*
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
It seems like lots of people in the WISP-world are running
MPLS just to use VPLS. Reasons for doing this are typically
to achieve better IPv4 utilization (not having to route a
block of IP's to each POP and maybe wasting IPv4,
etc).<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
Another common use-case is providing L2VPN services for
customers (connecting multiple locations together,
etc).<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 2:03 PM Adam Moffett
<_dmmoffett@gmail.com_> wrote:<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
I think I don't fully understand what the advantages are
of MPLS.<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
I mean I've been reading the white-papers and such, and I
see it brings some features to the table, but when are we
going to use them?<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
Routing speed:<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
* MPLS can make forwarding decisions faster. When they
made this in the 1990's I'm sure that was a big deal,
but I'm doubting whether there is really measurably
better latency on modern hardware. Is
there?<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
Traffic Engineering:<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
* It can do redundancy, but it seems to rely on the
routing protocol (eg OSPF) to know which paths are
up. I don't understand what that buys us.
<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
* It can do load sharing on unequal paths. Admittedly
that's very hard to do with L3 routing protocols, and
that would have been extremely useful at one point in
time. But how often does that happen now that we're
in a world of gigabit and 10gigabit
connections?<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
L2 tunneling<http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
* It can transport L2 traffic over an L3 network. It
does it with less overhead (8 bytes) than any other
method I can think of. I don't really see a downside
to this. <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
So are people running MPLS just to get VPLS tunnels, or
do you find that the other tools in the MPLS toolbox
matter in today's world? <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>
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