I think I have a use case, but its really only for a project and implementing an entirely new structure probably isnt worth it to save some prefix management. We have two upstreams in different town and use powercode. We have a BMU and each upstream location. We are migrating toward mikrotik BMUs at each site. as we peel away a site and its prefixes to move them, we have to bypass the upstream BMU with that traffic. we can static route around them, but that defeats the purpose of the OSPF, and if we have an upstream down, those static routes will cause ttl loops. we can tunnel from the sites to the two core routers as well but thats still all voiding automagic
On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 12:56 PM Cassidy B. Larson <c...@infowest.com> wrote: > I get RF from Cisco. > > > On Nov 21, 2019, at 7:54 AM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Are those pre-owned / refurb? > On 11/21/2019 12:57 AM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote: > > I’m able to get 10 Cisco ASR920s for under 10k from Cisco. Just depends > on who your account team is, and how much business you do. Just like > Streakwave, Winncom, etc. > > > On Nov 20, 2019, at 8:10 PM, Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> > wrote: > > Uh, yeah. > > $10k doesn’t buy me enough functionality. > Would need 10 of those. > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Josh Baird > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 20, 2019 6:54 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MPLS > > Why? Price? > > On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 7:53 PM Sterling Jacobson <sterl...@avative.net> > wrote: > > No thanks. > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Gino A. Villarini > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 20, 2019 5:12 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MPLS > > Time to grow up… Juniper ACX or Cisco ASR920 > > *From: *AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Sterling Jacobson < > sterl...@avative.net> > *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 4:10 PM > *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] MPLS > > Well put. > > Capacity/speed is an issue with me, so I think I introduced some possible > bottlenecks above 4.5Gbps using MPLS/VPLS in my own network which is > Mikrotik. > VPLS endpoints I don’t think were/are hardware offloaded, so required some > great CPU capacity at the edge and core for large transport. > I also think I had MTU issues with so many layers of “layer2” stuff going > on inside and outside of MPLS tunnels, native interfaces, VPLS endpoints, > bridges and VRRP interfaces along with VLAN at some endpoints. > > However, with the right equipment (not Mikrotik) MPLS is fully capable and > large networks use them to diversely traverse redundant paths back to a > central core. > > My problem also was geo-diverse BGP cores to different providers as stated > below. > I was running EVERYTHING on a Mikrotik 1072 CCR, lol! > It still drives me crazy hunting down issues where I still have > MPLS/OSPF/BGP/VRRP/VLAN on one device across multiple interfaces, lol! > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via AF > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 20, 2019 12:56 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> > *Cc:* Dennis Burgess <dmburg...@linktechs.net> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MPLS > > You can, its up to you. > > *Is routing faster on MikroTik by using MPLS/VPLS?* No > *Do you gain extra capacity by reducing the router load per packet by > using MPLS? * Yes, think looking at 4-bytes of data vs 40. Is it 10 fold > increase, no but you get the point. > *What is the big deal about MPLS without VPLS? *Just that it does get > you a bit of extra capacity. Bout it. > *Why does everyone want to run VPLS? * VPLS gets you the IP and subnet > savings. You do need to design your core network correctly to handle > this. If you have a single core router and all of your tunnels go to that, > then yes if it goes down yes your tunnels are down, but may of our > customers have to have redundancy, so multiple edges, connected to multiple > cores, connected to multiple VPLS termination boxes, connected to multiple > PPPoE servers. Etc. The core is VERY robust, but the general network is > not. This also does not work very well if your have multiple > geographically diverse BGP feeds, i.e. everything goes back to the > datacenter and that’s where it is, great, but otherwise, it gets to the > point that it not worth the effort. > *L2VPNs? *Weill there are a few customers that prefer them, but in all > honestly there is better, more secure, and faster protocols out there. > Keep in mind that L2VPNs are fine if all of the customers are on your > network, but they seldom are, so you will need a plan for those guys as > well. My questions is why do you build your network to deliver something > that people don’t want, a layer 2 network connection. If you are > delivering Pipes then sure, but you have to have the capacity and > availability to do so. Most Wisps, not all, don’t have this figured out. > 99% of the time, they can make more money by providing a managed L3 > solution than L2 anyways. > > > > *<image001.png>* > > *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, > MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified * > Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition” > *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services > *Office*: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net > Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com > > *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 20, 2019 1:17 PM > *To:* af@af.afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] MPLS > > > So do you tunnel everything back to the core and then do "router on a > stick" ? > On 11/20/2019 2:14 PM, Gino A. Villarini wrote: > > Yeap VPLS is where is at… > > VPLS tunnels to the towers, CORE routing + L2VPN to customers( Enterprise, > Wholesale) > > > > > *Gino** Villarini * > Founder/President > @gvillarini > t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 > m: > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > *www.aeronetpr.com* | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > > > > *From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> on behalf of Josh > Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users > Group <af@af.afmug.com> Date: Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 3:09 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] > MPLS <http://www.aeronetpr.com/>* > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > It seems like lots of people in the WISP-world are running MPLS just to > use VPLS. Reasons for doing this are typically to achieve better IPv4 > utilization (not having to route a block of IP's to each POP and maybe > wasting IPv4, etc). <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > Another common use-case is providing L2VPN services for customers > (connecting multiple locations together, etc). <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 2:03 PM Adam Moffett <*dmmoff...@gmail.com*> > wrote: <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > I think I don't fully understand what the advantages are of MPLS. > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > I mean I've been reading the white-papers and such, and I see it brings > some features to the table, but when are we going to use them? > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > Routing speed: <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > - MPLS can make forwarding decisions faster. When they made this in > the 1990's I'm sure that was a big deal, but I'm doubting whether there is > really measurably better latency on modern hardware. Is there? > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > Traffic Engineering: <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > - It can do redundancy, but it seems to rely on the routing protocol > (eg OSPF) to know which paths are up. I don't understand what that buys > us. <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > - It can do load sharing on unequal paths. Admittedly that's very > hard to do with L3 routing protocols, and that would have been extremely > useful at one point in time. But how often does that happen now that we're > in a world of gigabit and 10gigabit connections? > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > L2 tunneling <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > - It can transport L2 traffic over an L3 network. It does it with > less overhead (8 bytes) than any other method I can think of. I don't > really see a downside to this. <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > So are people running MPLS just to get VPLS tunnels, or do you find that > the other tools in the MPLS toolbox matter in today's world? > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > -- > AF mailing list > *AF@af.afmug.com* > *http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com* > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > -- > AF mailing list > *AF@af.afmug.com* > *http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com* > <http://www.aeronetpr.com/> > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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