in ohio BTW
On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 5:34 PM Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> i have a couple 3 mile AF24 links (non-hd) that have been up for 6
> months never dropped once and we have had some decent rainstorms
>
> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 1:22 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In this area, 24 GHz works reliably at 2 to 2-1/2 miles. We have several
>> links at these distances for years now, and they just stay up. One of them
>> faded out this year; not from rain, but when one end of the link had the
>> radome covered with a couple inches of snow/ice. The snow/ice would have
>> killed other frequencies as well. Thankfully, this doesn't happen very
>> often; it's the first time it happened in over 5 years.
>>
>> We also, for some time, had a 24 GHz link at 9+ miles. It did fade, but
>> was surprisingly reliable. I'm not advocating for such a link (and we
>> replaced this one some time ago), but rain is widely variable in different
>> regions. I would advise differently for someone in Illinois (for example).
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>> On 2/26/2020 10:14 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
>>
>> Anything that's more than ~1 mile is going to drop (at least
>> occasionally, unless it never rains) with either 80ghz or 24ghz, and
>> realistically, if a storm takes down an 80ghz link it's going to take down
>> a 24ghz link to... it might only be down 5 minutes instead of 6 minutes,
>> but it's still going to go down.
>>
>> If we ignore rain fade, then 80ghz actually should have significantly
>> better range than 24ghz, because the allowed EIRP is so much higher.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 11:27 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> My recollection is that WISPs who have tried 24 GHz even at 2 miles have
>>> been frustrated with the performance when it rains. Maybe it depends on
>>> your definition of moderate rain zone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think part of the problem with rain fade is that it doesn’t get 6 dB
>>> worse at twice the distance, it doubles (unless the link is long enough
>>> that it never rains over the entire linke).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So if you have 40 dB fades at 1 mile, you’ll have 80 dB fades at 2
>>> miles. You’re not going to make that up with xmt power or antenna size.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But speaking of transmit power, that’s another problem at 24 GHz, the
>>> regulatory EIRP limit is quite low.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We tend to talk like it’s all about which equipment vendor is better.
>>> Is Ubiquiti better than Aviat? But a lot of it is physics and regulatory.
>>> And maybe climate change. It reminds me of winter tires. You can pay
>>> twice as much, but the performance on ice might only be 10% better.
>>> There’s only so much you can do vs. laws of physics. And states outlawing
>>> studded tires because they tear up the roads.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 11:12 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think so. In moderate rain zones the AF24HD can go 2 miles, and
>>> maybe some change. I'm not sure how far you can go on 80 GHz, but I'm
>>> pretty sure it isn't that far.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/26/2020 9:08 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Is the range equivalent?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Kurt Fankhauser
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 26, 2020 9:59 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> for $5,000 the Aviat 80ghz solution is actually cheaper than AF24HD and
>>> 10x the throughput!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good to know. That's an incredibly good deal... definitely what I'd go
>>> with. You'll probably be paying at least that for a 1Gbps link from any of
>>> the other manufacturers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 9:20 AM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes I ran into the same thing with the web store showing a higher cost.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just reach out to Ken and he'll quote you the pricing I'm talking about.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020, 9:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It may be WISPA member pricing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 10:02 AM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is there some kind of special pricing or something? I logged into my
>>> Aviat account, and it's looking more like $7k for a link to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:05 AM Josh Baird <joshba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes - this is the WTM4800.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2020 at 8:53 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> That is an insane value proposition over the AF24HD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Which specific radio, the 10G single band 4800?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From: *"Darin Steffl" <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com>
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 25, 2020 9:29:10 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] .6 KM shot with 1G Full Duplex
>>>
>>> The best deal right now is Aviat 10Gbps full duplex for about $5k with
>>> dishes and everything.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 8:24 PM Sean Heskett <af...@zirkel.us> wrote:
>>>
>>> Good choice Lewis!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have a dozen of them and they are rock solid and fast! Been really
>>> amazed during rain events (heavy mountain downpours) that they keep on
>>> keepin on!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 6:27 PM Lewis Bergman <lewis.berg...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks everyone. I think we'll give the 80G Siklu a shot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> At that distance, rain fade shouldn't be a problem with 60ghz, so it
>>> really comes down to hardware reliability, and budget, and specific
>>> requirements.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If the project isn't cost sensitive, and you want the best you can get,
>>> then just go with 80ghz... there basically is no cheap junk for that band,
>>> so just pick your favorite vendor and buy what they have.
>>>
>>> If you do want to go cheap, then there are a few things to consider.
>>> Ignitenet an Ubiquiti (although I don't think their radios are actually
>>> shipping yet), have an extra channel at the top end of the band that can
>>> get a bit better range, which the Mikrotiks can't (legally) use... but
>>> that's not really going to make a lot of difference at that distance
>>> anyway. Ignitenet is the only one with an SFP port, if that matters, and
>>> they also have a radio that's capable of 2.5gbps, instead of only 1gpbs...
>>> they're also the most expensive of the cheap options. Mikrotik uses a beam
>>> forming antenna, so they're about 100000x easier to aim then the Ignitenets
>>> (I believe Ubiquiti does as well, but I haven't used their radios yet).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> None of the cheap 60ghz radios are true full duplex radios, but I think
>>> they're all capable of delivering a full gig in each direction at the same
>>> time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you don't want cheap, but don't want to deal with 80ghz licensing
>>> (which is pretty cheap and simple, but it is another thing that has to be
>>> done), then Siklu 60ghz would probably be a good option. Or you could just
>>> stick with AF24HD, which will certainly do the job, but considering what
>>> they cost, it makes more sense to me to just go with 80ghz at that
>>> distance. You could also go with Mimosa B24 for 24ghz, but they're half
>>> duplex radios, and I don't think that they can handle a full 2gbps
>>> aggregate.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 11:09 AM dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess it depends on the 9s you want.
>>> Cheaper is not always better for consistency.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:36 AM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>>
>>> No way I would consider AF24HD for this. You can get 80ghz links for
>>> less that do MUCH more throughput (10Gbps).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Vendors in this space include Bridgewave, Siklu and Aviat. Aviat
>>> probably gives you the best bang for your buck. Cambium has a new mmWave
>>> product, but I don't know anything about it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 9:31 AM dave <dmilho...@wletc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure which product mentioned but the PTP550 unlicensed will take all
>>> of your 5g spectrum and
>>> there is the ptp850E
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/24/20 8:27 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>>
>>> What are the current recommendations for something like this. I see
>>> Cambium has something that looks like it will work but their product
>>> selector returns no matches .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ubiquiti has the 24HD.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anything else I should be aware of?
>>> --
>>>
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Lewis Bergman
>>>
>>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>>
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