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Most of the people saying "do your own research" are really just googling for the answer they wanted and then reading blogs they already agreed with. Watching live streams of current events as they unfold would be on a whole other level, but I definitely do not have time in my day for that. I don't know how you manage it. One problem with that approach though is you can't cite any of it. I have to take your word for what you saw and how you interpreted it, and that's not actually different from choosing to believe in whatever any given news agency presents me with.
I'd 95% agree with premise A, with the 5% being that there are always grey areas. You could always imagine scenarios where we must choose to infringe one person's rights over another's (The Trolley Problem, or any of 10,000 variations). Definitely protesters blocking traffic without a permit is not ok.
Covid or not, screaming in someone's face will instigate or escalate violence. Yes that's not ok.
Destruction of property, also not ok.
But the conclusion: "That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"". Huh? There are still several orders of magnitude more people marching than there are people damaging property, blocking traffic, etc.
I won't go point by point in the characterization of what deputized federal agents are or aren't doing in Portland.....I think you are largely correct in what they're doing and that they have the authority to do it. The question is whether they should be exercising that authority in this time and place, especially when local authorities are asking them not to. I'm not saying I have all the answers, but I have trouble accepting this hardline interpretation.
On 7/20/2020 3:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
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Watch the skateboards.
I dont watch news footage, or much released video of the happenings, because its all edited for predetermined context. I watch live streams as things happen from the ground.
A. stopping anyones freedom of movement without permit is not peaceful, period. That makes every instance of blocking traffic non peaceful. Your rights end where mine begin, mine end where yours begin, there is no grey area, no overlap and nothing to discuss, it is simply fact. I mention permit because as a civilized society we have accepted the fact that we will occasionally give up some liberty for sanctioned events following an agreed upon protocol, hence permits. Whether that be a protest, fair, carnival, concert, road show.
B. Given the covid nonsense, screaming in someones face is in fact violence (in illinois if spiddle hits, its aggravated battery right now). Once again, not non violent.
C. Destruction/defacement of public property is not nonviolent. public property belongs to all people, not just those who belive that they are the only ones in "We the People". "street art" is not an acceptable form of protest as it is defacement of public property.
That eliminates the vast majority of these "protests"
Now, back to the skateboards. If you watch livestreams, the skateboads are new this riot season/election year. I couldnt figure out when this season started where all the usual occupy mob was at. Then I realized they brought about new tactics. The skateboards. They offer mobility, they are an excellent cudgel weapon, they can be handled even when jumping fences without losing transport. And best yet, there is no surface that holds fingerprints well.
If you watch livestreams, or can find unedited footage (good luck with that) youll see the skateboards present when the violence starts. In almost all instances, the first broken window is a hooded gimp in the periphery smashing a window and slinking off. The mob instinctively follows. By design.
The first tagging, skateboard gimp tags and drops cans of paint, then slinks off. (but you have to ask where the rest of the cans come from. you dont bring spray paint to a "peaceful" protest.
Tow straps are part of a peaceful protest? I didnt realize, but theyre all there ready to pull statues down, regardless of the history of the statues.
CHAZ/CHOP/CHUMP was a summer of love, remember? remember the locals loved it. totally peaceful. Except for the fact the locals were held hostage and have actually filed lawsuit as such.... not peaceful, we wont even discuss the murders, rapes, and theft.
When local governments dont protect their citizens from lawless "protesters" infringing on their liberties, the federal government has the responsibility to liberate the citizens under siege. Or the citizen has the right to aptly address those who would infringe. You dont get to decide the level of threat another person feels by your choice to infringe. period, its not up for discussion. If you think it is, you are the epitome of a fascist, that is not how liberty works.
As for these "jackboots" being unidentified, that is a lie, they are identified as police, and nowhere in the constitution does it say the government is mandated to tell you anything about what they are doing to others. The use of "unmarked vehicles" is also a lie A. those vehicles have license plates. B. Nowhere does it say transportation must be identified as law enforcement. As a matter of fact existing caselaw specifically states otherwise.
These "peaceful protesters" being snatched up and whisked away to locations are having their minds wiped? nope. They know where they went, who took them and why. Just because they give a media interview stating otherwise doesnt make it so. If thatat is the case in isolated incidents, that will ultimately be handled as an egregious violation of rights... wanna bet CNN doesnt do any follow ups with these "victims" though?
so to anyone calling this bullshit "peaceful" I say ROTFLMAO, because there is no way to have any real discussion with anyone not operating in reality.
Fact of the matter is, local and state government inept response and their actively condoning the infringement of citizens personal liberties by one group over another in an enlightened 2020 is what is going to lead to bloodshed, much sooner than later. It wont have anything to do with skin tone or who lays with who either.
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:52 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
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People can disagree. If we can do it politely then we won't need lent rules. Instead of laughing, tell me what the fault in my reasoning is and explain yours. Or tell me what my incorrect fact is with a citation showing what the correct fact is. We'd be in better shape if we could do that without lashing out.
I feel like we (the country) can't even talk about this stuff anymore. We've removed all nuance from discussing complex topics and reduced it to meme politics. We express an opinion with a picture and a one liner, and whether you agree or disagree puts you on one team or another. Then we angrily shriek at each other about it. THAT fatigues me more than ongoing protests ever could. No vote we can make will change any of that, but maybe we can all change that part of ourselves.
On 7/20/2020 11:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
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ROTFLMAO
On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 10:26 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
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Oh I don't know about that. If a bunch of angry people assemble peacefully, it wouldn't take much for them to stop being peaceful.
There are accelerationists who absolutely want to start a civil war, but they're a fringe movement and giving them too much credit is the same mistake as giving "Antifa" too much credit. IMO.
On 7/20/2020 10:57 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
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The BLM protestors are almost completely peaceful. It's groups like boogaloo who are creating all the ruckus.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 7/20/2020 7:49 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
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Federal Hitler tactics are just a recent thing, these kids have been going nuts for a couple of months.
I respect anyone’s right to PEACEFULLY assemble and to protest.
(Between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm M-F, holidays excluded, not on streets, must provide porta potties)
I don’t respect defacing or harming anyone’s property, public or not. Burning, occupying etc.
I really don’t know what their cause is. Other than against police brutality. That is a good cause.
Will setting fire to the police building help their cause?
I wonder if you can buy those rubber bullet claymore mines they tested out on Jackass?
Perhaps install a fire suppression system under the awning of your store but plumb it up to pepper spray.
From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT - political
Hitler tactics by Bunker Boy...there , I said it.
On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 2:49 PM <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
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Not trying to break lent, but I am lacking understanding.
What are the young white kids rioting about in Portland?
I am from Oregon, I remember protests in the 60s and 70s over Vietnam.
I also remember a line of State Police walking through a park downtown and busting heads of those that did not clear out. Actually one of my first telco bosses had been one of those State Bull Cops.
Are young white kids just aching for a chance at anarchy? I don’t get it.
Misbehaving while trying to wrap some kind of noble cause around you is pretty childish.
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