I never said corps should get to vote. Just that they are treated as
people in most aspects of the law.
*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 1:10 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
So if Joe Corp sits on the boards of 5 corporations, he gets a voice
as a citizen, and also 5 more times as a member of those boards? Does
that seem fair or right?
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 11/20/2020 11:29 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote:
As a matter of semantics and law. Corporations are people. They
pay taxes, they have rights, essentially all the constitutional
rights. Other than having a heartbeat, in a lawsuit or contract
if you did not already know, the other party could be human or a
paper entity and you would never know.
I agree that corporations should not be able to fund politics
without limit. But I remember the days of aggregating dozens of
individual doner checks and delivering them all to a congressman
in on envelope.
Moreover PACs can do whatever they want with money, so what
difference does it make if PACs have such liberty?
*From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 12:17 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
I agree with that. I do not in any way see how a corporation can
be considered "people". Doesn't that give the constituents behind
a corporation outsized influence (because corporations are made of
people who theoretically represent themselves)?
The way it is now (partly or largely because of Citizens United),
money equals speech. Except that if you don't have money, you get
no voice. That is fundamentally broken, and I don't see how we get
out of that.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 11/20/2020 11:11 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Citizens United created a problem.
Primaries also create a big problem, whether for “safe” or
contested seats. Candidates must cater to the extreme wing of
their party or get “primaried” from the fringe. So if each
party is 50%, and the extreme left and right are 50% of that,
you get the candidate that appealed to the 25%. Even if
center-right plus center-left is 50%, they don’t matter,
because of the 2 party system and the primary system.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Chuck Macenski
*Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 1:01 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
I believe that many (most?) of them do care. I think they are
caught in a system where they are forced to play their tribal
roles or risk having no impact. I think that the influence of
money in the political system is one of the factors that has
led us here.
That said, some of them have more integrity than others, some
are driven by the need to amass power (I consider that a
character flaw), and many (most?) voters are driven by emotion.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies
<m...@mailmt.com <mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> wrote:
Darin,
And yet here we sit harassing each other while they sit up
there in Washington collecting their nice large paychecks,
pocketing some lobbying money, having the best healthcare
one can get, patting each other on the back and not really
doing anything productive.
We are at the point where people from either side are
willing to destroy their lives over their party
affiliation. Do you really think any of them up there
give a shit about us? Things will never get fixed.
Because if they fix it, there will be nothing to rile up
the sheep.
This is equivalent to the obnoxious guy at the sports bar
rooting for "his" team. When they win he'll be yelling in
your face "WE, did it". "WE", unless you ordering your
10th beer and and downing your 20th chicken wing had a
bearing on the game, "YOU" had nothing to do with it.
These aren't OUR parties anymore. They no longer
represent the people. As long as they keep the people
arguing among themselves, we won't notice them
accomplishing nothing.
Until we re-align the US and THEM from RED and BLUE back
to the people and OUR representatives we are doomed to
relive this every two years.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Friday, November 20, 2020, 12:46:23 PM, you wrote:
Every politician SHOULD break from their party if they
feel a different way about an issue. I don't believe in
"falling in line" for everything.
Good people think for themselves, not what their party's
platform is.
I'm fiscally a Republican but for human rights and
equality, I'm a Democrat.
Republicans have a very hard time showing they care about
anyone other than white men. They need to stop treating
women, blacks, gays, trans, different people as anything
less than. And for gosh sake, stop trying to bring
religion into Government. Have they not heard of
separation of church and state?!?! Abortion should not be
a federal government issue.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 11:32 AM Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Mitt Romney is apparently willing to split from his party
when he feels strongly about something. Whether that
means he's a "RINO" or it means he has personal integrity
seems to be a matter of opinion. I'm trying to think of a
Democratic legislator who would break with party lines to
agree with a Republican position on something.....coming
up blank. Is Romney a Unicorn in that respect?
On 11/20/2020 12:22 PM, Robert wrote:
It would have been a really tough choice between Mitt and
Biden for me. Probably would have crossed to Mitt. Not
that I am necessarily a democrat but I really don't like
what the republican congress has become besides Mitt.
On 11/20/20 9:15 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I don't think anyone really knows for sure what he's
worth, and that's part of how it's so easy to build
different narratives about it.
He seems to have received around $400 million from his
parents. About a million from a trust fund and the rest
from a variety of revenue streams they set up for him. If
he's worth $2.5 billion today, that would imply something
like 5% annual growth. That's not an epic failure, but
it's pretty modest. Except guesses about his net worth
range from $700mil to $7billion, and even he is
inconsistent in what he says about it. He's somewhere
from terrible, to ok, to really good and everyone gets to
fill in the blanks with their own version.
I don't hate him, but I am embarrassed of him. Every time
I hear him speak, something unbelievable comes out. His
behavior before and during his presidency demonstrates
deep moral failings. His messaging seems to be about
symbolic emotional cues without any regard to factuality
(aka bullshitting). I don't blame anybody for voting for
him in 2016. When it was Hillary Clinton against an
unknown outsider, it's easy to say "let's give this
outsider a shot." I think at this point he's made it very
clear that he doesn't know what to do with his office.
I don't think Biden was anybody's first choice either, but
if it comes to the lesser of evils then Biden seems the
lesser.
-Adam
On 11/20/2020 10:47 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
Robert,
You guys are right. He is the Jacques Clouseau of the
business world. Just fumbling and bumbling his way for
the past 40 years. No one has caught on to his secret.
He is just an idiot that luckily is able to get bigger
idiots to back him. He has been cheating the IRS for years
and years. Luckily for the IRS, his tax returns will be
released and all the armchair accounts will be able to
help the IRS do a proper audit.
I understand your pure hatred of him. He is not the most
likable person. But, please he is a business man. We have
no idea what his books look like or where his loans are.
He has undertaken some risky investments and deals over
the years. Some work, some don't, it is business. I guess
successful is a relative term.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Friday, November 20, 2020, 10:00:21 AM, you wrote:
Which would be the perfect example of the propaganda that
has propped him up for the last 40 years. Well now the
chickens will come home to roost. He has a billion
dollars of loans to renegotiate ( gee guess why he wants
to be in charge of the party, access to truckloads of cash
) and the IRS to convince that his write offs were real
now that they are going to go under public review.. Could
be interesting...
On 11/20/20 6:25 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
Trump was never a successful businessman, that is a myth.
Mitt yes, Donald no.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Mark -
Myakka Technologies
*Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 8:03 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
Darin,
Trump was not presidential material, that is a fact. He
is a businessman not a politician. He had no idea on how
government worked. He was going in to the job with an
outsiders view of politics. He crashed the Washington
wedding and they didn't like it. He brought his friends
and family. The man didn't stand a chance. The left
started calling for impeachment before he was inaugurated.
Hell some of them even made a big stink that they weren't
even going to show for his inauguration being he was
illegitimate.
Frankly the right was no help at the beginning either,
they didn't support him. He surrounded himself with a
bunch of outsiders that didn't know the unwritten rules of
Washington.
The media does lean left. They were embarrassed, they told
us for months Hillary was going to be the next President.
They hate Trump and Trump hates them. Once the media
figured out how to push his buttons, it was just a big
game for them.
He was a lone wolf with no support at all. Seemed like
everyone was against him, except for the people that voted
for him.
Let's assume he was the worst president ever, one soul
away from being the devil himself. Seems like we survived.
Almost 75M people voted to keep him in office. You can
dismiss that as cult or a bunch of uneducated rednecks,
but is is still 75M people. Contrary to popular belief, he
did do some good things. HBC got multi-year funding. He
didn't start any new wars.
I was listening to a Obama doing an interview yesterday.
He was talking about the hard time he had in office with
the birther stuff. He made a very interesting comment.
He said that some people didn't know him. If they only
listened to FOX news, they only knew a caricature of him.
The exact same thing can be said about Trump.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Thursday, November 19, 2020, 11:58:10 PM, you wrote:
The only reason the media ripped on trump is because he
was a disgrace to the high office of President. He made a
joke of our country. He bullied, tweeted, and lied for his
entire term.
If a Democrat acted the same way trump did, I would fully
expect all news to rip on them too. Trump further divided
our country, shit on our allies, and shared hateful
conspiracy theories.
He craves attention, refuses to lose, and any time he
tried to do something good he would ruin it with some
tweet. He fired more staff than any other president in
history. He's paranoid, rude, and holds grudges.
He shows no empathy for anyone. He doesn't show
compassion. He doesn't show love. He doesn't forgive. He
doesn't forget. He doesn't lead.
He never talks about his family. He expects loyalty and
for people to bend the knee.
I've never been more embarrassed for our country when he
was elected. We needed a politician in office, not a
celebrity. He rocked the boat but not in a good way.
Give me a stable republican and I may vote for them if
they care about every American, not just their base.
Sidenote: I was grocery shopping tonight and someone was
wearing a shirt that said: Trump 2020. FUCK YOUR FEELINGS
Real classy trump supporter. Wearing a shirt like that at
our local Hyvee with kids and families shopping. I'm
embarrassed people think it's ok to wear things like that.
1st amendment allows them to but it's still disrespectful.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 10:20 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies
<m...@mailmt.com <mailto:m...@mailmt.com>> wrote:
It doesn't matter who won, the outcome is the same. All
of us should have been intelligent enough to predict this.
The only way this would have ended well for the country
would have been a landslide for Biden. Not saying Biden
is good for the country, but it was the only chance we may
have had not to deal with this bullshit.
If Trump won in a landslide, mainstream media would just
continue with the non-stop bashing for another four
years. He would have been declared an illegitimate
president again. The story would be the same as last time
"look at the polls, no way he could have won, must of
cheated". We would be watching cities burn right now.
If roles were reversed and Trump had the slim lead, the
Biden camp would be doing the same thing the Trump camp is
doing now. Do you really think Biden would have conceded.
The only difference, is the mainstream media would have
been digging deep to find each and every "fake" vote for
Trump. They would be working overtime. Every story would
be assumed true and not debated. No winner would be
declared yet.
When the counting is done, Trump will end up with almost
75M votes. That is more that 10M more than Hillary got in
2016. About 12M more people voted for Trump this time
around. More minorities voted for Trump this time around.
Did you really think Trump's base would just accept the
losing outcome? Did you really think Biden's base would
have accepted a losing outcome? On the plus side the
scales tipped to the left, so at least we aren't seeing
the riots.
This election will never be accepted by half the country,
just like the last election was never accepted by half the
country. Only difference is at least on the nightly news
I won't have to listen to 100% Trump bashing day in and
day out trying to scare me straight. It was getting
depressing. Everything was bad news. I swear if Trump
found the cure for cancer, it would have been spun as bad
news.
Come February, everything will be reported as unicorns and
rainbows. Life in the old USA will be great. There will be
no issues. Fox News will move right center, I don't think
they will be as hard on Biden as CNN was on Trump. Social
media will be where all the Trump supports go. But they
will be banned form the main sites and live on the fringe.
The left has the ball. All these problems that have been
drilled into our heads for the past 4 years are now their
issue to fix. They have 2 years to convince us they can
do a better job. Both the house and senate majorities are
so thin, either one can flip in two years.
Finally, it really doesn't matter. Our daily lives will
not change that much. Sure we'll probably have to deal
with Net Neutrality again. Maybe some type of national
tax on Internet service is in the future. Maybe another
healthcare shake up. Maybe there will be some half-assed
legislation on gun control or immigration, but no real
fix. The precedent was set in the last 4 years, every
executive action will be taken to court.
But we'll adapt and continue moving on. We always do.
--
Best regards,
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com
Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com <http://www.Myakka.com>
------
Thursday, November 19, 2020, 10:23:07 PM, you wrote:
Steve,
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/wayne-circuit-judge-dismisses-lawsuit-against-city-of-detroit-alleging-election-fraud
Please read this article and the judge's 13 page ruling on
what you claim is fraud. You and trump have been shot down
again.
Judge's are denying these suits left and right, some of
them getting quite heated in their opinions suggesting
they shouldn't even be wasting their breath on these
baseless claims.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:01 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
not going to play your game. I watched the mutt put up the
cardboard and stand there like a gimp. everyone watched
when they tried to serve the judges order and were still
denied access, facts are simply that, facts.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/05/media/detroit-windows-covered-ballots-vote-center/index.html
except the "protesters" were poll watcher, your team cant
even lie well
https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/11/05/philadelphia-court-decision-poll-watchers-now-allowed-within-6-feet-of-ballot-counting-at-pennsylvania-convention-center/
your kind will say that binoculars are good enough. odd
that judges ruled on something that didnt happen, are you
saying the judges lied?
just because you dont want it to be true doesnt make
something "debunked". Just admit there were issues,
present solutions. 4 years spent pushing a russian
narrative that was literally debunked and always offered
without evidence (hint, there was none). pick a single
narrative and run with said narrative, across the board.
much like the elder cruelty of putting rudy and joe in the
spotlight
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 8:21 PM Darin Steffl
<darin.ste...@mnwifi.com <mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>>
wrote:
Steve,
Cite your sources that poll watchers weren't allowed to
observe. You won't be able to because in every case so
far, there have been poll watchers inside watching the
count in every precinct.
You only saw some angry trump supporters standing outside
in Detroit trying to get in when there were already 200+
republic poll watchers already inside. They put up
cardboard because the people outside were being distracting.
Every court filing that has been filed so far has proven
that poll watchers were not kept out. Only "extras" that
showed up were blocked because you don't need any more
inside a building than already existed.
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 8:12 PM Bill Prince
<part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Oh sure. We are now using some schmoe in a stocking cap
for "news"?
Part of the reason we are in the situation we are in is
that we pay more attention to clowns than they deserve.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 4:21 PM justsumname
<unixday...@gmail.com <mailto:unixday...@gmail.com>> wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBdfxJdlvcE
It is getting interesting, and this election thing is
still far from over.
--
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steve Jones
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
lol, they just elected a guy president with the same
cruelty, so thats not really much of a thing anymore
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 1:43 PM Ken Hohhof
<af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
It’s cruel of people to keep putting Rudy in the public
eye when clearly he’s not all there anymore, I don’t know
if it’s dementia or what, but he needs to be sitting on a
porch somewhere playing checkers, not making a fool of
himself for the world to see. Of course he’s always been
a little off, look at his marriage history. I assume
since he was a lawyer and mayor he wasn’t always like
this. Or maybe he was. Again, the marriage history.
*From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:46 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
I dont know what happened to that guy. hopefully when this
is said and done we go the way of canada on electronic
voting. then we put cameras recording the count tables.
Golden and no need for recounts or weird people like this
team of lunatics having crazy press conferences. I think
the media sent their interns instead of reporters
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:35 PM Adam Moffett
<dmmoff...@gmail.com <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Guliani told me I could Google Dominion and find out that
it's owned by Venezuelans. My Google seems to work
differently from his.
On 11/19/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
jesus christ this broad just referred to themselves as an
"elite strikeforce team"
On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:00 PM Bill Prince
<part15...@gmail.com <mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Sorry Steve. You lost me at the bakery.
bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
On 11/19/2020 9:51 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
While id like my guy to come out on top magically, this
press conference presents more like a bad SNL skit
--
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