You are aware that gridlock was the design specification. If all parties
cannot come to an amicable arrangement, nothing changes, as designed, keeps
the field level.
It had little to do with slavery, much like the civil war. It had to do
with the experimental government that's designed to capsize and right
itself eventually. The extremes we see now were by design, brought to
equilibrium. Games suffer consequence. One president wants to push agenda
so they dont appoint judges and rock the boat, expecting the agenda to push
their party into another term. The agenda was too extreme and the party
loses so the next party appoints those judges and their own. Tips the boat
the other way. The next extremist comes along to push an agenda but cant
get a majority, so the minority has the courts to overturn that extreme
agenda. So on and so forth.
Thank god the founders were smart enough to know democracy leads to
different flavors of enslavement and didnt choose democracy.
On Fri, Nov 20, 2020, 5:17 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
> An opinion I've seen popping up here and there is that gridlock is the
> natural state of the US government. The president can veto the
> legislature, the senate can override the president. The president can
> issue orders to executive branch agencies, but only within the framework
> created by the legislature. The court can override everybody, but the
> court is appointed by the president, but only if the senate lets him.
> That's without getting into procedural crap like the filibuster.
>
> You've got a lot of ways to shut something down, so unless you have broad
> consensus on something it won't happen. It's a side effect of compromises
> originally made to create a stalemate between slave holding states and
> non-slave holding states. I don't think Trump accomplished any big
> permanent wins. EO's and Court appointments, sure. I expect Biden to also
> not accomplish much, and I expect stalemate to continue, except maybe on
> specific issues that have broad appeal. Is this actually a problem, or is
> it a useful feature? That's a serious question. I'm not 100% sure on
> this.
>
>
> On 11/20/2020 2:10 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>
> Something that's become painfully obvious to me is that there are a huge
> number of "norms" in the way that our government works, or pretends to
> work. When someone steps outside of the "norms" and starts doing what's not
> explicitly spelled out, a bunch of observers comment about how that's not
> normal. Maybe we should codify what we think are norms unless we somehow
> think it's going to make things worse?
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
> On 11/20/2020 11:01 AM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>
> I believe that many (most?) of them do care. I think they are caught in a
> system where they are forced to play their tribal roles or risk having no
> impact. I think that the influence of money in the political system is one
> of the factors that has led us here.
>
> That said, some of them have more integrity than others, some are driven
> by the need to amass power (I consider that a character flaw), and many
> (most?) voters are driven by emotion.
>
> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 12:41 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
>> Darin,
>>
>> And yet here we sit harassing each other while they sit up there in
>> Washington collecting their nice large paychecks, pocketing some lobbying
>> money, having the best healthcare one can get, patting each other on the
>> back and not really doing anything productive.
>>
>> We are at the point where people from either side are willing to destroy
>> their lives over their party affiliation. Do you really think any of them
>> up there give a shit about us? Things will never get fixed. Because if
>> they fix it, there will be nothing to rile up the sheep.
>>
>>
>> This is equivalent to the obnoxious guy at the sports bar rooting for
>> "his" team. When they win he'll be yelling in your face "WE, did it".
>> "WE", unless you ordering your 10th beer and and downing your 20th chicken
>> wing had a bearing on the game, "YOU" had nothing to do with it.
>>
>> These aren't OUR parties anymore. They no longer represent the people.
>> As long as they keep the people arguing among themselves, we won't notice
>> them accomplishing nothing.
>>
>> Until we re-align the US and THEM from RED and BLUE back to the people
>> and OUR representatives we are doomed to relive this every two years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com <m...@mailmt.com>
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> ------
>>
>> Friday, November 20, 2020, 12:46:23 PM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Every politician SHOULD break from their party if they feel a different
>> way about an issue. I don't believe in "falling in line" for everything.
>>
>> Good people think for themselves, not what their party's platform is.
>>
>> I'm fiscally a Republican but for human rights and equality, I'm a
>> Democrat.
>>
>> Republicans have a very hard time showing they care about anyone other
>> than white men. They need to stop treating women, blacks, gays, trans,
>> different people as anything less than. And for gosh sake, stop trying to
>> bring religion into Government. Have they not heard of separation of church
>> and state?!?! Abortion should not be a federal government issue.
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2020 at 11:32 AM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Mitt Romney is apparently willing to split from his party when he feels
>> strongly about something. Whether that means he's a "RINO" or it means he
>> has personal integrity seems to be a matter of opinion. I'm trying to
>> think of a Democratic legislator who would break with party lines to agree
>> with a Republican position on something.....coming up blank. Is Romney a
>> Unicorn in that respect?
>>
>> On 11/20/2020 12:22 PM, Robert wrote:
>>
>> It would have been a really tough choice between Mitt and Biden for me.
>> Probably would have crossed to Mitt. Not that I am necessarily a democrat
>> but I really don't like what the republican congress has become besides
>> Mitt.
>>
>> On 11/20/20 9:15 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>
>> I don't think anyone really knows for sure what he's worth, and that's
>> part of how it's so easy to build different narratives about it.
>> He seems to have received around $400 million from his parents. About a
>> million from a trust fund and the rest from a variety of revenue streams
>> they set up for him. If he's worth $2.5 billion today, that would imply
>> something like 5% annual growth. That's not an epic failure, but it's
>> pretty modest. Except guesses about his net worth range from $700mil to
>> $7billion, and even he is inconsistent in what he says about it. He's
>> somewhere from terrible, to ok, to really good and everyone gets to fill in
>> the blanks with their own version.
>> I don't hate him, but I am embarrassed of him. Every time I hear him
>> speak, something unbelievable comes out. His behavior before and during
>> his presidency demonstrates deep moral failings. His messaging seems to be
>> about symbolic emotional cues without any regard to factuality (aka
>> bullshitting). I don't blame anybody for voting for him in 2016. When it
>> was Hillary Clinton against an unknown outsider, it's easy to say "let's
>> give this outsider a shot." I think at this point he's made it very clear
>> that he doesn't know what to do with his office.
>> I don't think Biden was anybody's first choice either, but if it comes to
>> the lesser of evils then Biden seems the lesser.
>> -Adam
>>
>>
>> On 11/20/2020 10:47 AM, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
>>
>> Robert,
>>
>> You guys are right. He is the Jacques Clouseau of the business world.
>> Just fumbling and bumbling his way for the past 40 years. No one has
>> caught on to his secret. He is just an idiot that luckily is able to get
>> bigger idiots to back him. He has been cheating the IRS for years and
>> years. Luckily for the IRS, his tax returns will be released and all the
>> armchair accounts will be able to help the IRS do a proper audit.
>>
>> I understand your pure hatred of him. He is not the most likable
>> person. But, please he is a business man. We have no idea what his books
>> look like or where his loans are. He has undertaken some risky investments
>> and deals over the years. Some work, some don't, it is business. I guess
>> successful is a relative term.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com <m...@mailmt.com>
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> ------
>>
>> Friday, November 20, 2020, 10:00:21 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>> Which would be the perfect example of the propaganda that has propped him
>> up for the last 40 years. Well now the chickens will come home to roost.
>> He has a billion dollars of loans to renegotiate ( gee guess why he wants
>> to be in charge of the party, access to truckloads of cash ) and the IRS to
>> convince that his write offs were real now that they are going to go under
>> public review.. Could be interesting...
>>
>> On 11/20/20 6:25 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>>
>> Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
>> Trump was never a successful businessman, that is a myth. Mitt yes,
>> Donald no.
>>
>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On
>> Behalf Of *Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 20, 2020 8:03 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
>> <af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
>>
>> Darin,
>>
>> Trump was not presidential material, that is a fact. He is a businessman
>> not a politician. He had no idea on how government worked. He was going in
>> to the job with an outsiders view of politics. He crashed the Washington
>> wedding and they didn't like it. He brought his friends and family. The
>> man didn't stand a chance. The left started calling for impeachment before
>> he was inaugurated. Hell some of them even made a big stink that they
>> weren't even going to show for his inauguration being he was illegitimate.
>>
>> Frankly the right was no help at the beginning either, they didn't
>> support him. He surrounded himself with a bunch of outsiders that didn't
>> know the unwritten rules of Washington.
>>
>> The media does lean left. They were embarrassed, they told us for months
>> Hillary was going to be the next President. They hate Trump and Trump
>> hates them. Once the media figured out how to push his buttons, it was just
>> a big game for them.
>>
>> He was a lone wolf with no support at all. Seemed like everyone was
>> against him, except for the people that voted for him.
>>
>> Let's assume he was the worst president ever, one soul away from being
>> the devil himself. Seems like we survived. Almost 75M people voted to
>> keep him in office. You can dismiss that as cult or a bunch of uneducated
>> rednecks, but is is still 75M people. Contrary to popular belief, he did
>> do some good things. HBC got multi-year funding. He didn't start any new
>> wars.
>>
>> I was listening to a Obama doing an interview yesterday. He was talking
>> about the hard time he had in office with the birther stuff. He made a
>> very interesting comment. He said that some people didn't know him. If
>> they only listened to FOX news, they only knew a caricature of him. The
>> exact same thing can be said about Trump.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com <m...@mailmt.com>
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> ------
>>
>> Thursday, November 19, 2020, 11:58:10 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> The only reason the media ripped on trump is because he was a disgrace to
>> the high office of President. He made a joke of our country. He bullied,
>> tweeted, and lied for his entire term.
>>
>> If a Democrat acted the same way trump did, I would fully expect all news
>> to rip on them too. Trump further divided our country, shit on our allies,
>> and shared hateful conspiracy theories.
>>
>> He craves attention, refuses to lose, and any time he tried to do
>> something good he would ruin it with some tweet. He fired more staff than
>> any other president in history. He's paranoid, rude, and holds grudges.
>>
>> He shows no empathy for anyone. He doesn't show compassion. He doesn't
>> show love. He doesn't forgive. He doesn't forget. He doesn't lead.
>>
>> He never talks about his family. He expects loyalty and for people to
>> bend the knee.
>>
>> I've never been more embarrassed for our country when he was elected. We
>> needed a politician in office, not a celebrity. He rocked the boat but not
>> in a good way.
>>
>> Give me a stable republican and I may vote for them if they care about
>> every American, not just their base.
>>
>> Sidenote: I was grocery shopping tonight and someone was wearing a shirt
>> that said: Trump 2020. FUCK YOUR FEELINGS
>>
>> Real classy trump supporter. Wearing a shirt like that at our local Hyvee
>> with kids and families shopping. I'm embarrassed people think it's ok to
>> wear things like that. 1st amendment allows them to but it's still
>> disrespectful.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 10:20 PM Mark - Myakka Technologies <
>> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter who won, the outcome is the same. All of us should
>> have been intelligent enough to predict this. The only way this would have
>> ended well for the country would have been a landslide for Biden. Not
>> saying Biden is good for the country, but it was the only chance we may
>> have had not to deal with this bullshit.
>>
>> If Trump won in a landslide, mainstream media would just continue with
>> the non-stop bashing for another four years. He would have been declared
>> an illegitimate president again. The story would be the same as last time
>> "look at the polls, no way he could have won, must of cheated". We would
>> be watching cities burn right now.
>>
>> If roles were reversed and Trump had the slim lead, the Biden camp would
>> be doing the same thing the Trump camp is doing now. Do you really think
>> Biden would have conceded. The only difference, is the mainstream media
>> would have been digging deep to find each and every "fake" vote for Trump.
>> They would be working overtime. Every story would be assumed true and not
>> debated. No winner would be declared yet.
>>
>> When the counting is done, Trump will end up with almost 75M votes. That
>> is more that 10M more than Hillary got in 2016. About 12M more people
>> voted for Trump this time around. More minorities voted for Trump this
>> time around.
>>
>> Did you really think Trump's base would just accept the losing outcome?
>> Did you really think Biden's base would have accepted a losing outcome? On
>> the plus side the scales tipped to the left, so at least we aren't seeing
>> the riots.
>>
>> This election will never be accepted by half the country, just like the
>> last election was never accepted by half the country. Only difference is
>> at least on the nightly news I won't have to listen to 100% Trump bashing
>> day in and day out trying to scare me straight. It was getting
>> depressing. Everything was bad news. I swear if Trump found the cure for
>> cancer, it would have been spun as bad news.
>>
>> Come February, everything will be reported as unicorns and rainbows.
>> Life in the old USA will be great. There will be no issues. Fox News will
>> move right center, I don't think they will be as hard on Biden as CNN was
>> on Trump. Social media will be where all the Trump supports go. But they
>> will be banned form the main sites and live on the fringe.
>>
>> The left has the ball. All these problems that have been drilled into
>> our heads for the past 4 years are now their issue to fix. They have 2
>> years to convince us they can do a better job. Both the house and senate
>> majorities are so thin, either one can flip in two years.
>>
>> Finally, it really doesn't matter. Our daily lives will not change that
>> much. Sure we'll probably have to deal with Net Neutrality again. Maybe
>> some type of national tax on Internet service is in the future. Maybe
>> another healthcare shake up. Maybe there will be some half-assed
>> legislation on gun control or immigration, but no real fix. The precedent
>> was set in the last 4 years, every executive action will be taken to court.
>>
>>
>> But we'll adapt and continue moving on. We always do.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com <m...@mailmt.com>
>>
>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> www.Myakka.com
>>
>> ------
>>
>> Thursday, November 19, 2020, 10:23:07 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>>
>> https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/wayne-circuit-judge-dismisses-lawsuit-against-city-of-detroit-alleging-election-fraud
>>
>> Please read this article and the judge's 13 page ruling on what you claim
>> is fraud. You and trump have been shot down again.
>>
>> Judge's are denying these suits left and right, some of them getting
>> quite heated in their opinions suggesting they shouldn't even be wasting
>> their breath on these baseless claims.
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 9:01 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> not going to play your game. I watched the mutt put up the cardboard and
>> stand there like a gimp. everyone watched when they tried to serve the
>> judges order and were still denied access, facts are simply that, facts.
>>
>> https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/05/media/detroit-windows-covered-ballots-vote-center/index.html
>> except the "protesters" were poll watcher, your team cant even lie well
>>
>> https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2020/11/05/philadelphia-court-decision-poll-watchers-now-allowed-within-6-feet-of-ballot-counting-at-pennsylvania-convention-center/
>> your kind will say that binoculars are good enough. odd that judges ruled
>> on something that didnt happen, are you saying the judges lied?
>>
>> just because you dont want it to be true doesnt make something
>> "debunked". Just admit there were issues, present solutions. 4 years spent
>> pushing a russian narrative that was literally debunked and always offered
>> without evidence (hint, there was none). pick a single narrative and run
>> with said narrative, across the board. much like the elder cruelty of
>> putting rudy and joe in the spotlight
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 8:21 PM Darin Steffl <darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Cite your sources that poll watchers weren't allowed to observe. You
>> won't be able to because in every case so far, there have been poll
>> watchers inside watching the count in every precinct.
>>
>> You only saw some angry trump supporters standing outside in Detroit
>> trying to get in when there were already 200+ republic poll watchers
>> already inside. They put up cardboard because the people outside were being
>> distracting.
>>
>> Every court filing that has been filed so far has proven that poll
>> watchers were not kept out. Only "extras" that showed up were blocked
>> because you don't need any more inside a building than already existed.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020, 8:12 PM Bill Prince <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oh sure. We are now using some schmoe in a stocking cap for "news"?
>>
>> Part of the reason we are in the situation we are in is that we pay more
>> attention to clowns than they deserve.
>>
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 4:21 PM justsumname <unixday...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBdfxJdlvcE
>>
>> It is getting interesting, and this election thing is still far from over.
>> --
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 2:45 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> lol, they just elected a guy president with the same cruelty, so thats
>> not really much of a thing anymore
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 1:43 PM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> It’s cruel of people to keep putting Rudy in the public eye when clearly
>> he’s not all there anymore, I don’t know if it’s dementia or what, but he
>> needs to be sitting on a porch somewhere playing checkers, not making a
>> fool of himself for the world to see. Of course he’s always been a little
>> off, look at his marriage history. I assume since he was a lawyer and
>> mayor he wasn’t always like this. Or maybe he was. Again, the marriage
>> history.
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:46 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: this press conference
>>
>> I dont know what happened to that guy. hopefully when this is said and
>> done we go the way of canada on electronic voting. then we put cameras
>> recording the count tables. Golden and no need for recounts or weird people
>> like this team of lunatics having crazy press conferences. I think the
>> media sent their interns instead of reporters
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2020 at 12:35 PM Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Guliani told me I could Google Dominion and find out that it's owned by
>> Venezuelans. My Google seems to work differently from his.
>>
>
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