Don't enable the root user.
A lot of the new ways of doing things would have happened in the CentOS world at some point. ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jones" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com> Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 8:03:15 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? I just rebuilt our librenms server on ubuntu. It doesnt seem bad, lots of google answers. Webmin looks cool, dont knownifnits the new webmin or because it's on ubuntu. I dont care for the weird adapter naming and this yaml thing for configuring them. Commands arent that different. Not sure if theres a way to enable root user or not. I like that a lot of google advice is nano centric and not vi, I never could figure out vi On Thu, Dec 17, 2020, 7:11 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: Cool. I hope they change the name though. This is reminding me of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer’s Apprentice in Fantasia, when he tries to stop the broom with an ax, only to have the splinters turn into a multitude of brooms. From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 6:23 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? More options: https://www.zdnet.com/article/cloudlinux-to-invest-more-than-a-million-dollar-a-year-into-centos-clone/ bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 12/13/2020 12:42 PM, Josh Baird wrote: <blockquote> RHEL pricing is highly dependent on volume. Nobody typically pays advertised pricing. But, it's still not cheap, especially at scale. You can buy per instance (or guest) or license an entire hypervisor for unlimited instances of RHEL. Your subscription basically allows you to access their repository of updates (think yum/dnf update), knowledge base, and ability to open cases (with some levels of subscription). On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 2:47 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: <blockquote> Just to cover all the bases, what does it cost to use RHEL? I find their web page a little confusing. Is it $350 or $800? And that’s per server per year, right? Does it turn into a pumpkin if you don’t renew the license every year? That seems pretty expensive especially if you don’t need support and are basically just getting a distribution and repositories for open source software. Actually I’m still a little confused about their pricing. The $350 version says no VMs and not intended for production use. Does that mean you are violating the terms of the license if you use it in production, or just their way of saying you can’t open support tickets? And are there add-ons that would be cost yet more for a basic server application? For the first few years I actually used RHEL, I forget if I had to pay upfront or every year. That just does not sound feasible. From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Lincs Chel Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2020 1:27 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? Hi Josh; OK. Thanks for expanding your thoughts and info on the Oracle Linux distro and Oracle. It allows one to appreciate the context. This will certainly educate and assist an inexperienced Linux user who is information gathering to make some sound judgements about the CentOS and Oracle Linux distros and where to go. Yeah, I concur with your view that the majority of users that is currently using the free CentOS distro, is most likely going to be seeking the same in any alternative they elect to use as a replacement for CentOS. Also Oracle's past history on acquisitions and Open Source projects certainly makes one really think hard about going into their camp; Java, MySQL, ZFS etc. comes to mind. Most of the Linux training I have come across so far also seems to use CentOS as a start. So this will be interesting as well. Lincoln On 13/12/2020 10:02 AM, Josh Baird wrote: <blockquote> Lincs, One could also say that Stream is also a "direct binary replacement" for CentOS. In fact, to switch a CentOS system to Steam, all you need to do is modify your repo definitions. You are correct, OL isn't meant to be only used for Oracle software and appliances, but it usually is. I didn't mean to insinuate otherwise. You will very rarely find a shop running OL just because they want to. Bottom line - Oracle is a monster that I don't want to get in bed with. I was in the enterprise sector for many years and saw first hand how terrible Oracle's products and software really is. I have watched companies spend *millions* of dollars on Oracle products that are barely functional and could have been replaced with other working solutions at a fraction of the cost. Nothing you say will convince me otherwise :) To each his own, though! Ultimately, I don't believe the majority of CentOS users will want to pay for RHEL/OL. They will just switch to Steam/Rocky/etc or make the move to Debian (which can be a massive undertaking in itself depending on how much time/effort/money you have invested in tooling, etc for EL based distros). Cheers, Josh On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 8:44 AM Lincs Chel < lhan...@enc-tech.com > wrote: <blockquote> Hi Josh; An interesting 'emotional' response to the CentOS dilemma . It seems to miss the objective of finding an immediate, short-term and/or possible long-term solution for a CentOS replacement for the community. If you look at the Oracle Linux information, it is a direct binary replacement for CentOS right out of the box; usable right-away. Nor does it appear to be just an appliance based product and only meant for Oracle software. That would be a misleading characterization of their product and to an inexperienced Linux end-user. It's almost suggesting to a person, that you can't run other software on top of Microsoft Windows unless it came from Microsoft itself, or iOS, unless it's from Apple and so on. It does however appear that they (Oracle) are suggesting that you will get a really great experience with their software running on top of Oracle Linux rather than RedHat's version or CentOS or some other Linux distro. I also think Oracle Linux is being positioned for the cloud based network in which all of the big-ones wants to compete head-to-head. Oracle Linux gives Oracle sort of control as to an OS you can readily and easily pick when on their cloud platform that is based on a well known Open Source Linux. Makes sense for them to keep it going. I suspect IBM is positioning itself like that as well. They now have RedHat on their cloud platform and control its direction. They're all aiming for AWS and Microsoft (which has Azure and Windows). Oracle Linux code and/or OS runs without any contortions for the end-user, both experienced and inexperienced Linux users can benefit from this. Essentially one can basically continue running a CentOS environment right now if they wish and/or choose to do so using the Oracle Linux software. And, more importantly without any subscription fees, i.e. for free. I think their subscription pricing looks very reasonable as well for what its worth especially if you're rookie and on a budget. Nothing like hand holding from a single source, than Googling the entire net and wading through tons of blogs and different ideas when you're stuck. Yes, Oracle doesn't appear to always play well with the Open Source community products. But that can be perception. But I would say most of the big companies who use and/or own Open Source software as their business, don't do things the free and Open Source users like all the time. All trying to protect their turf, products and revenue. Oracle can be seen as the 'evil' one, don't trust them with a 10-ft pole. Likewise Microsoft, RedHat, IBM, Amazon, Google, Apple and all those crazy new free-software licensing terms and models software companies. CloudLinux is also an option for a direct replacement. But this appears to be only by subscription only for right now. When I had last checked on it, it was not free and required a subscription that didn't appear inexpensive. But more expensive for someone that is usually accustomed to paying $0.00 for their server software. Lincoln On 13/12/2020 12:16 AM, Josh Baird wrote: <blockquote> Sorry, but nobody in their right mind runs Oracle Linux unless you're using Oracle software and appliances that require you to run OL for support. On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 10:22 PM Lincs Chel < lhan...@enc-tech.com > wrote: <blockquote> Hi; I think another option to consider would be Oracle Linux. Consider the following from their blog, news and website:- <blockquote> * If you are reading this blog, you are probably a CentOS user and are in the position where you need to look at alternatives going forward. Switching to Oracle Linux is easy. * https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable%2c-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux <blockquote> * Need a stable, RHEL compatible alternative to CentOS? </blockquote> * https://www.oracle.com/linux/ Another option if you're using cPanel & WHM is to most likely use them as a good guide:- * cPanel Support For CentOS 8 And More * https://blog.cpanel.com/centos-8-end-of-life-announcement/ And, if you're coming from the old Cobalt Networks RaQ server era days and/or BlueOnyx, they have a good blog, news & comments. Probably their posture may be the best position to take when looking and/or want to "marry" with a particular distro which had various roadmaps during their history. <blockquote> * BlueOnyx has been available on CentOS since CentOS 5, but as the CentOS project never was without issues and unpredictability. Therefore we've never been fully "married" to it. It's always been more of a matter of convenience than one of choice. We even departed briefly from CentOS during the CentOS 6 days and favored Scientific Linux 6 instead. Since then we kept our eyes and ears open for alternatives and also contemplated contingencies. </blockquote> * You are here: Welcome to BlueOnyx» News CentOS Project shifts focus to CentOS Stream * https://www.blueonyx.it/news/280/54/CentOS-Project-shifts-focus-to-CentOS-Stream/d,Simplex%20News%20Detail Based on BlueOnyx website news, they have indicated the original founder of CentOS is considering a possible return:- <blockquote> <blockquote> And like mentioned above: We're not the only ones whom RedHat pulled the rug out from under our feet. In fact Gregory Kurtzer (co-founder of CentOS) had this to say : <blockquote> I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org ). Greg (original founder of CentOS) </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote> If you've installed and use cnMaestro and Cambium's software on CentOS, then the impact may even be more on your operations. I am guessing Cambium's cnMaestro may drop support for CentOS eventually. Lincoln On 12/12/2020 11:39 AM, Bill Prince wrote: <blockquote> Mostly. IBM charges quite a bit for it, but they're big blue. Not sure what they're getting out of their multi-billion dollar purchase, but we would have to sit in their board room to understand their thinking. I wouldn't be surprised to see that they are saving money by getting all those community developers do the work for next to nothing. Sure cuts down on the expenses in the development department. The only real issue is which version of linux you want hook your wagon to. I used Centos for quite a long time; mainly because it was "enterprise". Then it go too "enterprise" for my taste, and have since switched to Debian. It's the same, but different. Same enough for my taste, and down-homey enough for the small operation we are. NBD. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 12/12/2020 8:14 AM, Chuck McCown via AF wrote: <blockquote> Linux... linux is free... right? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2020 8:39 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? I guess it would have been naïve of us all to expect no change when IBM acquired RedHat. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of Steve Jones Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 11:58 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? Holy shit, I just took a cursory look at redhat pricing. Starts at 350 a year per server, physical server only, and not intended for production use. 2500 a year for the data center if I read it right I run webmin to manage package updates and BIND. If I'm reading correctly ubuntu isnt terrible, just less security patched since it's all opensource and not subsidized by a big dog like red hat. Probably doable, but no yum. Has something like this happenned with centos historically? I assume the linux community will bring about a comparable solution or resolution. This just stinks, I had my centos process down. Is this end of life like a microst end of life where they just keep patching and saying they mean it this time for years? On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 11:28 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: <blockquote> Supposedly there will be CentOS Stream? Kind of like RHEL beta instead of RHEL day old bread. I guess their answer would be if you are using it in a production environment you could always pay for RHEL. Or there’s Fedora. I believe Preseem runs on Fedora. From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 10:19 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? Debian is like Ubuntu ,only better. ;-) ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2020 5:12:13 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Centos is dead? I've been a peasant my whole life, is there any other way? I think powercode is ubuntu now, so I'll probably go that route, are there major differences to it? I dont like saying ubuntu, too much like ubnt On Fri, Dec 11, 2020, 3:47 PM Seth Mattinen < se...@rollernet.us > wrote: <blockquote> On 12/11/20 13:21, Steve Jones wrote: > Am I reading all this right? Redhat officially killed centos and its > tombstoned in 2021? > > Everything I run is centos. It's not like I know centos but I have my > resource sets on where to go to resolve anything that pops up. > > Is this just a normal thing in the linux world where something is ended > but actually just rebrands and keeps going or is it a legit end of the OS? It happens. Someone will probably fork it and make up a new distro if that hasn't happened already. IMO the main reason to use CentOS was because it was rebuilt RHEL. I gave up on Red Hat about two releases into Fedora Core when it became obvious it was just rapidly changing garbage for testing on the peasants before bringing fixes into their commercial version. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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