I wouldn’t say it’s a wasted effort on cars. I can warm up to the idea. Think of it like you being a contractor building a house and you only having one battery pack for your cordless drill. You have to stop production and wait until the battery is charged if you don’t have a swappable battery. If however you have spare swappable battery packs, well then you can keep moving by just swapping the battery and recharge the other at the same time.
If the battery pack power density gets to the point where you just have all the cars allocate the space(s) to fit a more universal battery pack or packs, then you can just pull up to a chagrining/swap station, do the swap thing and be on your way. That concept is one part of the workable solution that I could get behind. That would also allow to use off peak grid time to build up capacity for the transportation needs at peak times by recharging the depleted packs that have been put back in to the recharging ports. Kind of like the same freedom we enjoy with the storage of energy using fossil fuels. They do something similar with the 20 pound propane bottle exchanges at many convenience stores these days. Heck it would even allow you to set up energy points where there isn’t grid capacity enough or even available at all. Put a good amount of solar panels at the charge/exchange stations and I like the idea even better. But the huge problem with that is getting all of the car manufacturers to agree to do so and standardize on the battery size, form factor…. I could see a pickup truck having slots to put more than one battery pack under the bed and really give great range. Thank you, Brian Webster From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hammett Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 4:34 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers Tesla was planning for their semi trucks to. Not sure if that remains or not. It seems like a lot of wasted effort for mainstream cars. ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Jan-GAMs" <j.vank...@grnacres.net> To: af@af.afmug.com Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 3:28:58 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers It seems pretty obvious that EVs need a swap-able battery so re-charging can be as quick as a gas fill-up. On 2/14/22 11:46, Robert Andrews wrote: > If you are doing a 300 mile trip, your stop at a supercharger for a > Model Y would be about 10 minutes to add another 150 miles, so that's > not bad when you would be stopping at a gas station for 10 minutes as > well. ( I haven't ever gotten out and put even 10 gallons in in less > that 7 minutes with using the card and all that, you don't do any of > that at a supercharger ) As far as towing is going, I think you will > see more and more of the Electric Airstream campers coming down the > road that have electric assist, to remove the range losses. There > are used EV's on the market and the only reason the prices are high is > because the demand is there, the prices will drop as more used ones > hit the market, but they will come with reduced range, which is a loss > and a gain because the rest of the drivetrain will have a lot more use > than a 60K+ ICE vehicle... So the only takeaway is that it's still a > rapidly evolving market, but the ICE builders already see the writing > on the wall.... New teslas come with integrated battery packs which I > think is going to be a problem in the future, but I am not going to be > the one dealing with that... > > On 2/14/22 11:15, Brian Webster wrote: >> Living in rural America I am not a fan of the range limitations. For >> me it's not uncommon to have to take a trip 60 to 90 miles in one >> direction and then back in the same day. It's also not uncommon to >> want to take a trip and covers 300 or more miles in that day on the >> long trip. I do not want to be limited to 250 miles before I have to >> stop for an extended period to recharge. Personally that is a serious >> limit on my personal freedom of movement. For instance it's not >> uncommon for spring or winter breaks to drive from upstate NY to >> Florida in a single 24 hour period. When you only have a week for >> vacation tag team driving to get there with a carload of people is >> still cheaper than try to fly everyone. Also the restriction of being >> able to haul larger loads similarly are a big limitation. Having a 27 >> foot camper to load the family up and take a vacation is not possible >> with the current availability of EV's out there. >> >> Let's also consider the other elephant in the roof, the actual cost >> of the vehicles. New car prices are outrageous. Personally I like to >> buy used vehicles with higher mileage and typically pay less than 10 >> grand(usually a lot less) and pay cash for them. I haven't had a car >> payment in over 15 years and do not want to be forced in to having to >> do so. With getting closer to retirement age every year, I do not >> want to be forced in to incurring debt. For me the goal is to be debt >> free, not have to fork over 30 grand or more just to be able to >> continue to transport myself around. People making decisions like no >> more gas engines for lawn mowers and such, they tend to live in some >> sort of state of constant debt, if they are in government they have >> no concept of not being in debt. Most will think I am crazy for >> thinking this way because society just wants to accept that debt is a >> necessary way of life. That debt for purchasing and converting to >> EV's and getting away from fossil fuels is in my mind not being >> fairly considered in the process. >> >> Thank you, >> Brian Webster >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Robert Andrews >> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 1:49 PM >> To: af@af.afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >> >> There are also a bunch of real life tests published on Youtube. Seems >> like everyone in the cold wanted to either brag or complain... >> >> On 2/14/22 09:56, li...@gogebicrange.net wrote: >>> Since a lot of you guys seem to have first hand experience with the >>> EV’s >>> Ill ask. How do they do on range in cold environments? We have often >>> wondered how they heat the inside of the vehicle in -10F and how it >>> affects the range of the vehicle. Those temps are common for us in >>> January and February. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Brandon >>> >>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 14, 2022 11:15 AM >>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>> >>> It's not thye electric motors that are at fault. Once the battery tech >>> gets sorted out, there will be no good reason to use dino-fuel. >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 2/14/2022 9:11 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>> Sure, but efficiency isn't everything. Fortunately, EVs are also >>> better at torque than diesel and gasoline. >>> >>> Where they don't shine is range when actually working. >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> *From: *"Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> >>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 11:06:28 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>> >>> It's approximately 33 KWH of electricity is equivalent to 1 gallon >>> of gasoline (probably less for diesel), so EVs with 60-80 KWH >>> batteries are running a couple hundred miles (or more) on the >>> rough >>> equivalent of < 3 gallons of gas. >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 2/14/2022 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: >>> >>> The funny thing is that while diesel has superior >>> performance to >>> gasoline in many ways, EVs have superior performance to diesel >>> in many ways. >>> >>> Kinda ironic... >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> *From: *"Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> >>> <mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >>> *To: *af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >>> *Sent: *Monday, February 14, 2022 9:46:36 AM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Numbers >>> >>> It's called "rolling coal", and it is all the rage for people >>> who think EVs are the devil's spawn. >>> >>> bp >>> >>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>> >>> On 2/14/2022 6:38 AM, Jan-GAMs wrote: >>> >>> In the past year I've observed that agressive driving >>> seems >>> to be the norm now. More assholes, especially pickups >>> using >>> farm diesel (black-foul-smelling-smoke). I been >>> thinking of >>> investing in a stash of bumper stickers to stick on their >>> trucks that says "shoot me please". >>> >>> On 2/13/22 12:28, Steve Jones wrote: >>> >>> Its possible that with the lower threshold more folks >>> were able to be arrested before they couldgo fora >>> croaker cruise. >>> >>> Its more probable though that ride sharing grew during >>> that period and the generation of party drinkers >>> used it >>> more as a matter of trend. >>> >>> Drinking establishments being closed or otherwise >>> inaccessible due to the rona too probably playeda huge >>> role, like the seeming disappearance of flu. >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 1:33 PM Chuck McCown via AF >>> <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote: >>> >>> During Covid, in Utah, there have been the highest >>> rate of deaths ever recorded due to car crashes. >>> >>> Meanwhile, at approximately the same time another >>> experiment was running. >>> >>> Late 2018 Utah lowered the blood alcohol level for >>> driving from .08 to .05%. >>> >>> Many, including myself, figured that there >>> would not >>> be a significant difference. >>> >>> But I also commented at the time that this one >>> will >>> be easy to prove or disprove. >>> >>> Deaths and crashes linked to drunken driving >>> dropped >>> by 19.8% since the law took effect. I think one >>> could say that is statistically significant. >>> Glad I >>> was wrong. >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> <http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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