Circling back to this The D18 33kHz sonde worked great with the vSCAN. Even down to 15' which was the deepest duct we needed to trace. What surprised me was the 512 sewer sondes. They worked amazingly well. Not quite as accurate as the 33kHz sonde but no issue at all tracking them. They are also small enough that you could easily repackage them into a tube to screw on the end of a rodder. https://prototek.net/product/ftp-8-512-hz-flushable-transmitter/
We had some issues with getting our vScan delivered on time and ended up renting a Ridgid Scout Sonde locator to start with. If all I was doing was locating Sondes, I'd use that all day long. vScan works pretty well too but for tracking Sondes the scout is nice because you can pretty much aim it sideways when tracking through brush or through a duct that sweeps up into a building. On Fri, Dec 30, 2022 at 10:54 AM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> wrote: > Very anxious to hear the results. > > *From:* Carl Peterson > *Sent:* Friday, December 30, 2022 9:05 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units > > I ordered a smaller metrotech D18 33kHz sonde and a vSCAN locator which > says it supports 512 sondes (*- Sondes: 32.768kHz, 512Hz and 640Hz Sonde > modes). *I'll update with how it works with the D18 and the sewer > sondes. If we end up buying a longer sonde I'll do a side by side with > them. > > Thanks for everyone's input on this. I'm sure I will wish I bought a > RD7200 at some point but hopefully this will get the job done. > > On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 5:32 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> > wrote: > >> You might need a locator that matches the frequency of the flushable >> beacon. >> >> *From:* Carl Peterson >> *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2022 3:40 PM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >> >> Thanks Chuck. I ordered a few flushables for shits and giggles. We >> have a bunch of 4" ducts we need to trace ASAP. I'll look at ordering a >> 12" Leica one or the 17" D23 if it isn't too expensive. >> >> On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 4:27 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> >> wrote: >> >>> The flushable beacons I have played with are pretty wide for 1.25” >>> conduit. I am sure the longer sondes will transmit a greater distance. >>> >>> *From:* Carl Peterson >>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2022 2:42 PM >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>> >>> The leica duct sonde 33 (12") is $440. It obviously isn't the same as a >>> HDD sonde but I wonder if the longer antenna coil would help. There are >>> also sondes like the Metrotech D23 which is a flexible sonde: 0.9" x 17.3" >>> (23mm x 456mm). >>> >>> Am I flushing money down the toilet? Should I just buy a few $35 >>> flushable sondes and tie them to the end of my duct rod? >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2022 at 2:25 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Those systems start at $12K on up for new. And the sondes are pretty >>>> large. Yes they would work better if you are rodding 1.25” duct or >>>> larger. They also will not take corners like a shorter beacon. >>>> >>>> *From:* Carl Peterson >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 29, 2022 8:24 AM >>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>>> >>>> Thanks Chuck, Do you think a 12" duct sonde might work better? I am >>>> going to need to try to find an adapter to connect it to my rodder. >>>> https://shop.leica-geosystems.com/buy/accessories/duct-sonde-33 >>>> >>>> Steve, >>>> I've seen the flushable sondes and wondered why they cost $35 when the >>>> regular ones cost $400 to 1K+. Can't seem to find them in 30kHz or 640hz >>>> which is what our existing 150R locator says it supports. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 7:00 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> theres septic sondes you can use for rodding >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:55 PM Carl Peterson < >>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Speaking of Sondes... I am looking for something I can put on the >>>>>> end of my conduit rodder. Its a 5/16th Condux with 3/8 UNC male threads. >>>>>> Assuming I source a sonde / beacon first and then find an adapter? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:34 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Most boring uses a sonde transmitter. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 1:44 PM >>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The ViperMag is an underground cable locator. I used it for our >>>>>>> bore attachment on the SPX25. Metal is metal is metal. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2022 at 3:38 PM Chuck McCown via AF <af@af.afmug.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Drilling locators are a total different beast than underground >>>>>>>> cable locators. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 28, 2022 12:31 PM >>>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Carl, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our favorite locator is the ViperMag. I think it was ~3000 >>>>>>>> retail. As to its accuracy, based on my one time usage last week I >>>>>>>> spotted >>>>>>>> the drill sticks 100% and got the distance within inches. My locator >>>>>>>> tech >>>>>>>> says it's 100x better than the old one when there's noise (nearby other >>>>>>>> utilities). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 6:21 PM Carl Peterson < >>>>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How about this one? Not sure what the new price would be. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/225308461851?hash=item34756e4b1b:g:1Q4AAOSwsQpityvJ&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoGDhdpMkHwHcr%2BvCGwtdhgoKuhWkl29e3dky%2FBRCjSbcavCSO%2FxS%2FOj3ur8IMQrLU9nTSS5jxh1tGbzExnZkLl0ByukyENiu4m%2BjhsDyyBTYdqpHctfm3wplh6OljUR5p2r52f0ADK56LGN4R3c3XaKY8Jiv9Z0pQI4qClIVyOcGYD3Us3yHVvj3gtrWqqaeKNhiHdquQ9vLEuuTiiRWQvY%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-TFtduqYQ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:18 PM Chuck McCown via AF < >>>>>>>>> af@af.afmug.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/295441271797?hash=item44c9ac0bf5:g:FygAAOSwHUFjq0Fi&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA8EoM%2BACrrWy8doADxOvuYO6McooUnEQT32vIgmMCHxSNW7AFx45Ldlayxo1UF19OgeMhNeiXhx6aeua%2FVkOuaMh276DpXIFBRYOW6ZIHNDHI28906bMAomYZI8WsZJ%2Bze0pJtR1BsN7p7rVxkOUgvBwHQnbPRMW2etIqpj%2FAebmujtKv6pJsoyFexvukHQPKXGZDJB0OxJBapGnHc89pM7aeZtYBRxXE87946w1wr1Dl%2BoKiZI4mbQaCcAV%2FnOr8eRwqRkoApcPdjSO%2B%2FwYN%2FIqi%2BZnoXwN6jDfU420OM07xHxOsQBd0U4rkjQanZcsb0Q%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMovD-3aph >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *From:* Carl Peterson >>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2022 4:14 PM >>>>>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks Chuck, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That helps, I think. I'm at the point where I just need to make >>>>>>>>>> a decision but 4K isn't enough to make the decision I want to make. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 27, 2022 at 5:07 PM Chuck McCown via AF < >>>>>>>>>> af@af.afmug.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Most if not all of them locate the signal based on current >>>>>>>>>>> flowing on a conductor. So you put a signal on a trace wire or >>>>>>>>>>> cable >>>>>>>>>>> shield. Ground the far end. The transmitter is connected to the >>>>>>>>>>> cable and >>>>>>>>>>> a ground rod. That flow of signal sets up the magnetic field and >>>>>>>>>>> that is >>>>>>>>>>> what the locator works off of. If you have trace current then all >>>>>>>>>>> of them >>>>>>>>>>> will do a good job. The type of soil doesn’t make much difference. >>>>>>>>>>> The >>>>>>>>>>> super cheap ones will find it as easy and the super expensive units. >>>>>>>>>>> Finding a reliable depth is more difficult. The only brand I have >>>>>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>>>>> used where I could trust the depth was a Metrotel. But even the >>>>>>>>>>> cheapest >>>>>>>>>>> unit can find depth by locating a null, orienting the pick up coil >>>>>>>>>>> at 45 >>>>>>>>>>> degrees and then finding the null off to the side of the of the >>>>>>>>>>> cable. >>>>>>>>>>> Distance from the center null to the side null is the depth. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The higher the power the farther you can locate. But that just >>>>>>>>>>> means you don’t have to move the transmitter so much. In my >>>>>>>>>>> experience I >>>>>>>>>>> am generally within a quarter mile of the transmitter or less and >>>>>>>>>>> all of >>>>>>>>>>> them will do that distance. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Some of them will also passively locate 60 cycle power. Some of >>>>>>>>>>> them locate based on radio signals picked up by wires and pipes and >>>>>>>>>>> re-radiated. I have had limited success with that on high pressure >>>>>>>>>>> gas. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Many of them have an RF mode where you connect to some object to >>>>>>>>>>> track but the far end is not grounded. So you just have a >>>>>>>>>>> capacitive >>>>>>>>>>> coupling between the thing you want to locate and the earth. Not >>>>>>>>>>> much >>>>>>>>>>> current flows so you do not get much distance. For example a fish >>>>>>>>>>> tape >>>>>>>>>>> down a plastic duct is located this way. But you will only get >>>>>>>>>>> dozens or >>>>>>>>>>> perhaps hundreds of feed if you are lucky. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Multiple frequencies have their uses. Older units were down in >>>>>>>>>>> the audible range like 800 Hz. You can go a very long way with >>>>>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>>>>> frequecies. But they also bleed off to other cables and pipes. >>>>>>>>>>> Higher >>>>>>>>>>> frequencies are better to get finer resolution but they do not >>>>>>>>>>> transmit as >>>>>>>>>>> far. 82 or 84KHz is a popular frequency. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Some brands put a coded signal out so only their receiver can >>>>>>>>>>> pick up the signal. Rycom is one of those. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Carl Peterson >>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2022 3:30 PM >>>>>>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Underground Locating units >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts on a used R7200 off of ebay vs something like a new >>>>>>>>>>> Ridgid SR-24? Trying to do this with a 4K budget. Is a locator >>>>>>>>>>> either good >>>>>>>>>>> or bad or is there a middle ground where they don't work well. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 3:30 PM Steve Jones < >>>>>>>>>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> there is also the vermeer lin of locators. massive option set, >>>>>>>>>>>> LM42 is pretty efficient and can find most things in the ISP >>>>>>>>>>>> domain. SPX25 >>>>>>>>>>>> is good for locating shallower thing. stuff like the 10x15 or >>>>>>>>>>>> 20x22 utility >>>>>>>>>>>> locator are surprisingly accurate for it having to be pretty >>>>>>>>>>>> pinpoint. But >>>>>>>>>>>> if you really want to be certain about finding the utilities on a >>>>>>>>>>>> smaller >>>>>>>>>>>> ISP budget, youd want to look at Bobcat brand locators, those will >>>>>>>>>>>> find >>>>>>>>>>>> everything. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2022 at 3:17 PM Carl Peterson < >>>>>>>>>>>> cpeter...@portnetworks.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Any consensus on locators? We need to buy a new one too. The >>>>>>>>>>>>> only one I really know is the T5. We don't do a ton of locates >>>>>>>>>>>>> so it >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't need to be too high end. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 2:34 PM Jason McKemie < >>>>>>>>>>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm looking at getting one of these: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/sr-24-line-locator-with-bluetooth-and-gps >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2022 at 8:59 AM Nate Burke <n...@blastcomm.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm looking to pickup a 2nd locating unit. Without visiting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bunch of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> websites and wading through tech docs, does anyone have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recommendations? USIC around here uses a blue unit, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're always >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so covered with spray paint I can't see the name/model. We >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amprobe AT-3500 today. Looks like Amprobe has a newer model >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out, that's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cheaper than the AT-3500 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mainly need to locate either a tracer wire (alligator clips) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> traceable fiber (Clamp) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Carl Peterson >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> (410) 637-3707 >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Carl Peterson >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> (410) 637-3707 >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Carl Peterson >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> (410) 637-3707 >>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Carl Peterson >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (410) 637-3707 >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Carl Peterson >>>>>> >>>>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>>>>> >>>>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>>>>> >>>>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>>>>> >>>>>> (410) 637-3707 >>>>>> -- >>>>>> AF mailing list >>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Carl Peterson >>>> >>>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>>> >>>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>>> >>>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>>> >>>> (410) 637-3707 >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Carl Peterson >>> >>> *PORT NETWORKS* >>> >>> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >>> >>> Baltimore, MD 21202 >>> >>> (410) 637-3707 >>> ------------------------------ >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> Carl Peterson >> >> *PORT NETWORKS* >> >> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 >> >> Baltimore, MD 21202 >> >> (410) 637-3707 >> ------------------------------ >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> -- >> AF mailing list >> AF@af.afmug.com >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > > > -- > > Carl Peterson > > *PORT NETWORKS* > > 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 > > Baltimore, MD 21202 > > (410) 637-3707 > > ------------------------------ > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- Carl Peterson *PORT NETWORKS* 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553 Baltimore, MD 21202 (410) 637-3707
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