It seems to me a bit of a paradox that LEO both qualifies for BEAD funding, but doesn't disqualify areas that it already covers.
On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 12:13 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > I have no horse in the fiber race, but I’ve always accepted that IF > infrastructure is going to be built with taxpayer money, it should be > fiber. Or at least something that: > > > > 1) Will last forever or at least 20 years with minimal physical maintenance > > 2) Can be upgraded for higher bandwidths in the future without at most new > electronics at the ends > > 3) Can be taken over by another operator if the initial one goes out of > business > > > > So not intending to pick on LEO operators Starlink and Kuiper, but I will > be interested to see the specifics for the states that are awarding them > BEAD subsidies. > > > > What do they get for the money, and how long does it last? Free hardware > and/or installation for customer? Subsidized monthly price? Reserved > capacity? Launch more satellites? What if someone builds a new house in > the area, do they get any benefit? They would if fiber passed the > location. What if that customer moves and someone else buys the house, or > what if it’s a rental house with a succession of tenants? Is it paid based > on locations passed, or served? The devil, as they say, is in the details. > > > > If BEAD just subsidizes the customer’s cost for a limited period like 3-5 > years, I don’t see how it’s equivalent to fiber. I mean, I miss ACP too, > but BEAD is not intended to be ACP2. > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Mark Radabaugh > *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2025 11:44 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > > Like all subsidy programs - the support will never end, despite what the > program says. > > > > In theory all of the OPEX support dollars are supposed to go away. > > > > We are still paying for ACAM: > > > > Woohoo: https://www.usac.org/high-cost/funds/acam/ > > > > Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of > eligible locations equal to at least 90 percent of fully funded locations > by the end of year 9 (2025) > > Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of > eligible locations equal to at least 100 percent of fully funded locations, > in addition to meeting final deployment obligations to deploy 25/3 Mbps and > 4/1 Mbps by the end of year 10 (2026) > > > > Once we get done with BEAD there shouldn't be anything left that needs > 100/20. > > > > Next up - “We need operational support money”, We need Gigabit > everywhere!, We need to win the race to 7G (or maybe 9G for Nathan Stook). > > > > > Corporate welfare, it’s an industry! Now you can get an even bigger > piece of the taxpayer pie if you agree to give the dear leader a cut! > > > > I wonder how much AT&T is willing to pay to get monopoly carrier status > back? > > > > Mark > > > > On Aug 25, 2025, at 12:04 PM, Josh Luthman <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > CAF and RDOF are similar. The support is 10 years. Build requirement is > 5 years. > > > > Both are FCC programs and funded by USF. > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:34 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: > > Interesting. I've been in a private equity world since about 2017 , so > I'm not up to date on these programs. > > I recall CAF funded areas in NY State, but they only talked about support > for a certain number of years, and I was unclear what you're supposed to do > after that. Does RDOF keep the subsidy going indefinitely? > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Josh Luthman < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Monday, August 25, 2025 10:17 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > > >If we, as a society, feel that those properties need broadband then there > would have to be something that functions more like USF, where those rural > properties are subsidized by a fee paid by the city dwellers. > > > > This is literally RDOF. > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:08 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected]> wrote: > > Fifteen thousand per house at 1 house per mile would be pretty optimistic > for this area (NY State). The poles on those roads tend to be old, and the > telco attached at a time when nobody was too concerned about the clearance > rules. With make-ready on a rural road, you tend to get up to $50k/mile. > You can go underground, but we have a bunch of challenges with that too. > > > > Regardless, it would be hard to make a viable business out of that > scenario. It's all well and good if the government helps you get the > capital, but opex is your problem. If we, as a society, feel that those > properties need broadband then there would have to be something that > functions more like USF, where those rural properties are subsidized by a > fee paid by the city dwellers. > > > > Your description of old farms and farmhouses is very familiar. Family > farms still exist, but often in the form of a corporation owned by the > family. I think that's to avoid inheritance tax because the corporation > doesn't die. Give your shares to the next generation when you retire > rather than waiting until you die. The exception is dairy farms. With all > the dairy subsidies we still have lots of dairy farms with 100 cows or > less. Out of our >600,000 dairy cows in the state, the average herd size > is 1200ish. > > > > One thing that I don't know if you experience in other states is you get > the occasional "farm" around here that's actually just some millionaire's > tax shelter. Some of the expenses for their palatial estate can become > expenses for their struggling farm business. > > > > P.S.: One thing I do like about this group is nobody has ever asked me > where NY keeps the cows with all the buildings around. > > > > -Adam > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Ken Hohhof < > [email protected]> > *Sent:* Saturday, August 23, 2025 12:13 PM > *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > > In some areas we serve where houses are a mile apart and the nearest town > with a Walmart is 15 miles away, people tell me that when a homeowner dies > (many are in their 70’s and 80’s), they won’t even list the house because > nobody wants to live in the middle of nowhere. It will be abandoned, or > torn down to and turned back into farmland. We no longer have small family > farms with the farm family living in a house on the land, because you need > to farm so many acres to make a profit. If a farmhouse is near a town, it > may become a rental house, but not when it’s 10 miles from the nearest town > or school. > > > > But I expect some company will be awarded $15K+ each to pass these houses > with fiber. If it takes 4 years to complete, the house might not even be > occupied by then, and in any case, the 80 year old occupant probably > doesn’t care if they have gigabit Internet. > > > > So will fiber make these houses suddenly desirable, and work from home > people will move there from the cities, towns and suburbs? Reviving these > rural areas where the younger generation has moved away? I guess that’s > the vision, I’m not sure I buy it. Well and septic and propane, quarter > mile driveway to plow in winter, but blazing fast Internet, and you can > have horses and chickens. > > > > Will they start building subdivisions out there once fiber is available? > I’m not buying it. Am I wrong? > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
-- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
