I hear they need ISPs in Uganda. -----Original Message----- From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 2:17 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber
I’m going to be very disappointed if someone doesn’t mention the Russians. Or maybe Havana. Mark > On Aug 25, 2025, at 3:12 PM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > > In that order? > > > > > -- > Mike Hammett > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Radabaugh" <[email protected]> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 2:08:38 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > You couldn’t possibly be suggesting that it would be a big win if the head of > Commerce was able to say he clawed back $30B in Biden’s structure bill, > claims he solved Internet for all, and kick 10% of the money to Elon and > Jeff? > > > Hang on, somebody from the FBI wants to talk to me. > > > If you don’t hear from me in a while please send Lawyers, Guns, and Money. > > > Mark > > > > > > On Aug 25, 2025, at 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > It was already available, but we wanted to give Elon and Jeff some money to > thank them? > > > From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jason McKemie > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 1:01 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > It seems to me a bit of a paradox that LEO both qualifies for BEAD funding, > but doesn't disqualify areas that it already covers. > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 12:13 PM Ken Hohhof < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > > > I have no horse in the fiber race, but I’ve always accepted that IF > infrastructure is going to be built with taxpayer money, it should be fiber. > Or at least something that: > > > > 1) Will last forever or at least 20 years with minimal physical > maintenance > > 2) Can be upgraded for higher bandwidths in the future without at most > new electronics at the ends > > 3) Can be taken over by another operator if the initial one goes out > of business > > > > So not intending to pick on LEO operators Starlink and Kuiper, but I will be > interested to see the specifics for the states that are awarding them BEAD > subsidies. > > > > What do they get for the money, and how long does it last? Free hardware > and/or installation for customer? Subsidized monthly price? Reserved > capacity? Launch more satellites? What if someone builds a new house in the > area, do they get any benefit? They would if fiber passed the location. What > if that customer moves and someone else buys the house, or what if it’s a > rental house with a succession of tenants? Is it paid based on locations > passed, or served? The devil, as they say, is in the details. > > > > If BEAD just subsidizes the customer’s cost for a limited period like 3-5 > years, I don’t see how it’s equivalent to fiber. I mean, I miss ACP too, but > BEAD is not intended to be ACP2. > > > > > > From: AF < [email protected] > On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 11:44 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > > Like all subsidy programs - the support will never end, despite what the > program says. > > > > > > In theory all of the OPEX support dollars are supposed to go away. > > > > > > We are still paying for ACAM: > > > > > > Woohoo: https://www.usac.org/high-cost/funds/acam/ > > > > > > Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible locations > equal to at least 90 percent of fully funded locations by the end of > year 9 (2025) > > > Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible locations > equal to at least 100 percent of fully funded locations, in addition > to meeting final deployment obligations to deploy 25/3 Mbps and 4/1 > Mbps by the end of year 10 (2026) > > > > > > Once we get done with BEAD there shouldn't be anything left that needs > 100/20. > > > > > > Next up - “We need operational support money”, We need Gigabit everywhere!, > We need to win the race to 7G (or maybe 9G for Nathan Stook). > > > > > > Corporate welfare, it’s an industry! Now you can get an even bigger piece of > the taxpayer pie if you agree to give the dear leader a cut! > > > > > > I wonder how much AT&T is willing to pay to get monopoly carrier status back? > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > On Aug 25, 2025, at 12:04 PM, Josh Luthman < [email protected] > > wrote: > > > > > > CAF and RDOF are similar. The support is 10 years. Build requirement is 5 > years. > > > > > > Both are FCC programs and funded by USF. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:34 AM Adam Moffett < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > > > Interesting. I've been in a private equity world since about 2017 , so I'm > not up to date on these programs. > > > I recall CAF funded areas in NY State, but they only talked about support for > a certain number of years, and I was unclear what you're supposed to do after > that. Does RDOF keep the subsidy going indefinitely? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AF < [email protected] > on behalf of Josh Luthman < > [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 10:17 AM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > > > >> If we, as a society, feel that those properties need broadband then there >> would have to be something that functions more like USF, where those rural >> properties are subsidized by a fee paid by the city dwellers. > > > > > > This is literally RDOF. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:08 AM Adam Moffett < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > Fifteen thousand per house at 1 house per mile would be pretty optimistic for > this area (NY State). The poles on those roads tend to be old, and the telco > attached at a time when nobody was too concerned about the clearance rules. > With make-ready on a rural road, you tend to get up to $50k/mile. You can go > underground, but we have a bunch of challenges with that too. > > > > > > Regardless, it would be hard to make a viable business out of that scenario. > It's all well and good if the government helps you get the capital, but opex > is your problem. If we, as a society, feel that those properties need > broadband then there would have to be something that functions more like USF, > where those rural properties are subsidized by a fee paid by the city > dwellers. > > > > > > Your description of old farms and farmhouses is very familiar. Family farms > still exist, but often in the form of a corporation owned by the family. I > think that's to avoid inheritance tax because the corporation doesn't die. > Give your shares to the next generation when you retire rather than waiting > until you die. The exception is dairy farms. With all the dairy subsidies we > still have lots of dairy farms with 100 cows or less. Out of our >600,000 > dairy cows in the state, the average herd size is 1200ish. > > > > > > One thing that I don't know if you experience in other states is you get the > occasional "farm" around here that's actually just some millionaire's tax > shelter. Some of the expenses for their palatial estate can become expenses > for their struggling farm business. > > > > > > P.S.: One thing I do like about this group is nobody has ever asked me where > NY keeps the cows with all the buildings around. > > > > > > -Adam > > > > > > > > > > > > From: AF < [email protected] > on behalf of Ken Hohhof < > [email protected] > > Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2025 12:13 PM > To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' < [email protected] > > Subject: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > > > > In some areas we serve where houses are a mile apart and the nearest town > with a Walmart is 15 miles away, people tell me that when a homeowner dies > (many are in their 70’s and 80’s), they won’t even list the house because > nobody wants to live in the middle of nowhere. It will be abandoned, or torn > down to and turned back into farmland. We no longer have small family farms > with the farm family living in a house on the land, because you need to farm > so many acres to make a profit. If a farmhouse is near a town, it may become > a rental house, but not when it’s 10 miles from the nearest town or school. > > > > > But I expect some company will be awarded $15K+ each to pass these houses > with fiber. If it takes 4 years to complete, the house might not even be > occupied by then, and in any case, the 80 year old occupant probably doesn’t > care if they have gigabit Internet. > > > > > So will fiber make these houses suddenly desirable, and work from home people > will move there from the cities, towns and suburbs? Reviving these rural > areas where the younger generation has moved away? I guess that’s the vision, > I’m not sure I buy it. Well and septic and propane, quarter mile driveway to > plow in winter, but blazing fast Internet, and you can have horses and > chickens. > > > > > Will they start building subdivisions out there once fiber is available? I’m > not buying it. Am I wrong? > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing > list [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list [email protected] http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
