You couldn’t possibly be suggesting that it would be a big win if the head of Commerce was able to say he clawed back $30B in Biden’s structure bill, claims he solved Internet for all, and kick 10% of the money to Elon and Jeff?
Hang on, somebody from the FBI wants to talk to me. If you don’t hear from me in a while please send Lawyers, Guns, and Money. Mark > On Aug 25, 2025, at 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > > It was already available, but we wanted to give Elon and Jeff some money to > thank them? > > From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jason McKemie > Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 1:01 PM > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber > > It seems to me a bit of a paradox that LEO both qualifies for BEAD funding, > but doesn't disqualify areas that it already covers. > > On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 12:13 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> I have no horse in the fiber race, but I’ve always accepted that IF >> infrastructure is going to be built with taxpayer money, it should be fiber. >> Or at least something that: >> >> 1) Will last forever or at least 20 years with minimal physical maintenance >> 2) Can be upgraded for higher bandwidths in the future without at most new >> electronics at the ends >> 3) Can be taken over by another operator if the initial one goes out of >> business >> >> So not intending to pick on LEO operators Starlink and Kuiper, but I will be >> interested to see the specifics for the states that are awarding them BEAD >> subsidies. >> >> What do they get for the money, and how long does it last? Free hardware >> and/or installation for customer? Subsidized monthly price? Reserved >> capacity? Launch more satellites? What if someone builds a new house in >> the area, do they get any benefit? They would if fiber passed the location. >> What if that customer moves and someone else buys the house, or what if >> it’s a rental house with a succession of tenants? Is it paid based on >> locations passed, or served? The devil, as they say, is in the details. >> >> If BEAD just subsidizes the customer’s cost for a limited period like 3-5 >> years, I don’t see how it’s equivalent to fiber. I mean, I miss ACP too, >> but BEAD is not intended to be ACP2. >> >> From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On >> Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh >> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 11:44 AM >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber >> >> Like all subsidy programs - the support will never end, despite what the >> program says. >> >> In theory all of the OPEX support dollars are supposed to go away. >> >> We are still paying for ACAM: >> >> Woohoo: https://www.usac.org/high-cost/funds/acam/ >> >> Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible >> locations equal to at least 90 percent of fully funded locations by the end >> of year 9 (2025) >> Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible >> locations equal to at least 100 percent of fully funded locations, in >> addition to meeting final deployment obligations to deploy 25/3 Mbps and 4/1 >> Mbps by the end of year 10 (2026) >> >> >> Once we get done with BEAD there shouldn't be anything left that needs >> 100/20. >> >> >> Next up - “We need operational support money”, We need Gigabit everywhere!, >> We need to win the race to 7G (or maybe 9G for Nathan Stook). >> >> Corporate welfare, it’s an industry! Now you can get an even bigger piece >> of the taxpayer pie if you agree to give the dear leader a cut! >> >> I wonder how much AT&T is willing to pay to get monopoly carrier status back? >> >> Mark >> >> >>> On Aug 25, 2025, at 12:04 PM, Josh Luthman <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> CAF and RDOF are similar. The support is 10 years. Build requirement is 5 >>> years. >>> >>> Both are FCC programs and funded by USF. >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:34 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> Interesting. I've been in a private equity world since about 2017 , so >>>> I'm not up to date on these programs. >>>> I recall CAF funded areas in NY State, but they only talked about support >>>> for a certain number of years, and I was unclear what you're supposed to >>>> do after that. Does RDOF keep the subsidy going indefinitely? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> on >>>> behalf of Josh Luthman <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 10:17 AM >>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber >>>> >>>> >If we, as a society, feel that those properties need broadband then there >>>> >would have to be something that functions more like USF, where those >>>> >rural properties are subsidized by a fee paid by the city dwellers. >>>> >>>> This is literally RDOF. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:08 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> Fifteen thousand per house at 1 house per mile would be pretty optimistic >>>>> for this area (NY State). The poles on those roads tend to be old, and >>>>> the telco attached at a time when nobody was too concerned about the >>>>> clearance rules. With make-ready on a rural road, you tend to get up to >>>>> $50k/mile. You can go underground, but we have a bunch of challenges >>>>> with that too. >>>>> >>>>> Regardless, it would be hard to make a viable business out of that >>>>> scenario. It's all well and good if the government helps you get the >>>>> capital, but opex is your problem. If we, as a society, feel that those >>>>> properties need broadband then there would have to be something that >>>>> functions more like USF, where those rural properties are subsidized by a >>>>> fee paid by the city dwellers. >>>>> >>>>> Your description of old farms and farmhouses is very familiar. Family >>>>> farms still exist, but often in the form of a corporation owned by the >>>>> family. I think that's to avoid inheritance tax because the corporation >>>>> doesn't die. Give your shares to the next generation when you retire >>>>> rather than waiting until you die. The exception is dairy farms. With >>>>> all the dairy subsidies we still have lots of dairy farms with 100 cows >>>>> or less. Out of our >600,000 dairy cows in the state, the average herd >>>>> size is 1200ish. >>>>> >>>>> One thing that I don't know if you experience in other states is you get >>>>> the occasional "farm" around here that's actually just some millionaire's >>>>> tax shelter. Some of the expenses for their palatial estate can become >>>>> expenses for their struggling farm business. >>>>> >>>>> P.S.: One thing I do like about this group is nobody has ever asked me >>>>> where NY keeps the cows with all the buildings around. >>>>> >>>>> -Adam >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> on >>>>> behalf of Ken Hohhof <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2025 12:13 PM >>>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected] >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber >>>>> >>>>> In some areas we serve where houses are a mile apart and the nearest town >>>>> with a Walmart is 15 miles away, people tell me that when a homeowner >>>>> dies (many are in their 70’s and 80’s), they won’t even list the house >>>>> because nobody wants to live in the middle of nowhere. It will be >>>>> abandoned, or torn down to and turned back into farmland. We no longer >>>>> have small family farms with the farm family living in a house on the >>>>> land, because you need to farm so many acres to make a profit. If a >>>>> farmhouse is near a town, it may become a rental house, but not when it’s >>>>> 10 miles from the nearest town or school. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> But I expect some company will be awarded $15K+ each to pass these houses >>>>> with fiber. If it takes 4 years to complete, the house might not even be >>>>> occupied by then, and in any case, the 80 year old occupant probably >>>>> doesn’t care if they have gigabit Internet. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So will fiber make these houses suddenly desirable, and work from home >>>>> people will move there from the cities, towns and suburbs? Reviving >>>>> these rural areas where the younger generation has moved away? I guess >>>>> that’s the vision, I’m not sure I buy it. Well and septic and propane, >>>>> quarter mile driveway to plow in winter, but blazing fast Internet, and >>>>> you can have horses and chickens. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Will they start building subdivisions out there once fiber is available? >>>>> I’m not buying it. Am I wrong? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> AF mailing list >>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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