You couldn’t possibly be suggesting that it would be a big win if the head of 
Commerce was able to say he clawed back $30B in Biden’s structure bill, claims 
he solved Internet for all, and kick 10% of the money to Elon and Jeff?    

Hang on, somebody from the FBI wants to talk to me.   

If you don’t hear from me in a while please send Lawyers, Guns, and Money.

Mark

> On Aug 25, 2025, at 2:27 PM, Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> It was already available, but we wanted to give Elon and Jeff some money to 
> thank them?
>  
> From: AF <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Jason McKemie
> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 1:01 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber
>  
> It seems to me a bit of a paradox that LEO both qualifies for BEAD funding, 
> but doesn't disqualify areas that it already covers.
>  
> On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 12:13 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> I have no horse in the fiber race, but I’ve always accepted that IF 
>> infrastructure is going to be built with taxpayer money, it should be fiber. 
>>  Or at least something that:
>>  
>> 1) Will last forever or at least 20 years with minimal physical maintenance
>> 2) Can be upgraded for higher bandwidths in the future without at most new 
>> electronics at the ends
>> 3) Can be taken over by another operator if the initial one goes out of 
>> business
>>  
>> So not intending to pick on LEO operators Starlink and Kuiper, but I will be 
>> interested to see the specifics for the states that are awarding them BEAD 
>> subsidies.
>>  
>> What do they get for the money, and how long does it last?  Free hardware 
>> and/or installation for customer?  Subsidized monthly price?  Reserved 
>> capacity?  Launch more satellites?  What if someone builds a new house in 
>> the area, do they get any benefit?  They would if fiber passed the location. 
>>  What if that customer moves and someone else buys the house, or what if 
>> it’s a rental house with a succession of tenants?  Is it paid based on 
>> locations passed, or served?  The devil, as they say, is in the details.
>>  
>> If BEAD just subsidizes the customer’s cost for a limited period like 3-5 
>> years, I don’t see how it’s equivalent to fiber.  I mean, I miss ACP too, 
>> but BEAD is not intended to be ACP2.
>>  
>> From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> On 
>> Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 11:44 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber
>>  
>> Like all subsidy programs - the support will never end, despite what the 
>> program says.
>>  
>> In theory all of the OPEX support dollars are supposed to go away.   
>>  
>> We are still paying for ACAM:
>>  
>> Woohoo:  https://www.usac.org/high-cost/funds/acam/
>>  
>>                Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible 
>> locations equal to at least 90 percent of fully funded locations by the end 
>> of year 9 (2025)
>>                Deploy at least 10/1 Mbps service to the number of eligible 
>> locations equal to at least 100 percent of fully funded locations, in 
>> addition to meeting final deployment obligations to deploy 25/3 Mbps and 4/1 
>> Mbps by the end of year 10 (2026)
>>  
>> 
>> Once we get done with BEAD there shouldn't be anything left that needs 
>> 100/20. 
>>  
>> 
>> Next up - “We need operational support money”,  We need Gigabit everywhere!, 
>>  We need to win the race to 7G (or maybe 9G for Nathan Stook).  
>>  
>> Corporate welfare, it’s an industry!   Now you can get an even bigger piece 
>> of the taxpayer pie if you agree to give the dear leader a cut!   
>>  
>> I wonder how much AT&T is willing to pay to get monopoly carrier status back?
>>  
>> Mark
>>  
>> 
>>> On Aug 25, 2025, at 12:04 PM, Josh Luthman <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> CAF and RDOF are similar.  The support is 10 years.  Build requirement is 5 
>>> years.
>>>  
>>> Both are FCC programs and funded by USF.
>>>  
>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:34 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected] 
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> Interesting.  I've been in a private equity world since about 2017 , so 
>>>> I'm not up to date on these programs. 
>>>> I recall CAF funded areas in NY State, but they only talked about support 
>>>> for a certain number of years, and I was unclear what you're supposed to 
>>>> do after that.  Does RDOF keep the subsidy going indefinitely?  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> on 
>>>> behalf of Josh Luthman <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 10:17 AM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber
>>>>  
>>>> >If we, as a society, feel that those properties need broadband then there 
>>>> >would have to be something that functions more like USF, where those 
>>>> >rural properties are subsidized by a fee paid by the city dwellers.
>>>>  
>>>> This is literally RDOF.
>>>>  
>>>> On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:08 AM Adam Moffett <[email protected] 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>> Fifteen thousand per house at 1 house per mile would be pretty optimistic 
>>>>> for this area (NY State).  The poles on those roads tend to be old, and 
>>>>> the telco attached at a time when nobody was too concerned about the 
>>>>> clearance rules.  With make-ready on a rural road, you tend to get up to 
>>>>> $50k/mile.  You can go underground, but we have a bunch of challenges 
>>>>> with that too.
>>>>>  
>>>>> Regardless, it would be hard to make a viable business out of that 
>>>>> scenario.  It's all well and good if the government helps you get the 
>>>>> capital, but opex is your problem.  If we, as a society, feel that those 
>>>>> properties need broadband then there would have to be something that 
>>>>> functions more like USF, where those rural properties are subsidized by a 
>>>>> fee paid by the city dwellers. 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Your description of old farms and farmhouses is very familiar.  Family 
>>>>> farms still exist, but often in the form of a corporation owned by the 
>>>>> family.  I think that's to avoid inheritance tax because the corporation 
>>>>> doesn't die.  Give your shares to the next generation when you retire 
>>>>> rather than waiting until you die.  The exception is dairy farms.  With 
>>>>> all the dairy subsidies we still have lots of dairy farms with 100 cows 
>>>>> or less.  Out of our >600,000 dairy cows in the state, the average herd 
>>>>> size is 1200ish.  
>>>>>  
>>>>> One thing that I don't know if you experience in other states is you get 
>>>>> the occasional "farm" around here that's actually just some millionaire's 
>>>>> tax shelter.  Some of the expenses for their palatial estate can become 
>>>>> expenses for their struggling farm business.  
>>>>>  
>>>>> P.S.: One thing I do like about this group is nobody has ever asked me 
>>>>> where NY keeps the cows with all the buildings around.
>>>>>  
>>>>> -Adam
>>>>>  
>>>>>  
>>>>> From: AF <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> on 
>>>>> behalf of Ken Hohhof <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2025 12:13 PM
>>>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <[email protected] 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>>> Subject: [AFMUG] rural areas and fiber
>>>>>  
>>>>> In some areas we serve where houses are a mile apart and the nearest town 
>>>>> with a Walmart is 15 miles away, people tell me that when a homeowner 
>>>>> dies (many are in their 70’s and 80’s), they won’t even list the house 
>>>>> because nobody wants to live in the middle of nowhere.  It will be 
>>>>> abandoned, or torn down to and turned back into farmland.  We no longer 
>>>>> have small family farms with the farm family living in a house on the 
>>>>> land, because you need to farm so many acres to make a profit.  If a 
>>>>> farmhouse is near a town, it may become a rental house, but not when it’s 
>>>>> 10 miles from the nearest town or school.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> But I expect some company will be awarded $15K+ each to pass these houses 
>>>>> with fiber.  If it takes 4 years to complete, the house might not even be 
>>>>> occupied by then, and in any case, the 80 year old occupant probably 
>>>>> doesn’t care if they have gigabit Internet.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> So will fiber make these houses suddenly desirable, and work from home 
>>>>> people will move there from the cities, towns and suburbs?  Reviving 
>>>>> these rural areas where the younger generation has moved away?  I guess 
>>>>> that’s the vision, I’m not sure I buy it.  Well and septic and propane, 
>>>>> quarter mile driveway to plow in winter, but blazing fast Internet, and 
>>>>> you can have horses and chickens.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> Will they start building subdivisions out there once fiber is available?  
>>>>> I’m not buying it.  Am I wrong?
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> AF mailing list
>>>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> 
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