He's going to be making friends all over with stuff like this...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems to
be rammed full of overly entitled douches
----- Original Message -----
From: That One Guy /sarcasm
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS
I like this observium guy
On Apr 4, 2015 5:53 PM, "Jon Auer" <j...@tapodi.net> wrote:
Until I see evidence to the contrary (just did a svn up and no wisp gear
has been removed...) I'm treating that entire exchange as the internet
equivalent of some drunk (Smeg) walking up to you(Adam) in the bar and grabbing
your arm and saying have your wife dance with me. You're like, that's her
choice and she says no. Repeating as the night goes on. Eventually maybe you
snap, say some unkind things because you want the drunk to get lost and he just
isn't taking the hint.
That wasn't the first IRC exchange between them and others. Adam's
volatility is well known but in this case I believe he was sorely provoked.
We've all experienced the client from hell. Thing is, maybe some of us are
the client from hell.
What happened in IRC after may help understand where he is coming from...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:18:33] While I completely understand
that you're the author and shit, and what you say goes. period... wasn't that a
bit of an overreaction?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:18:56] BenA: you have no fucking
idea
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:05] I don't, it's true.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:06] these people will not take
no for an answer
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:07] they go on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:08] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:09] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:10] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:20] Couldn't you just, like, look
away from the screen?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:23] BUT MUH SUPPORT, MILLIONS OF
USERS, PLZ
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:32] couldn't you?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:38] Ask him if he wants to pay.
if he doesn't, ignore?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:46] oh, they all say they want
to pay
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:49] Ah.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:10] but when they realise it
costs more than $5...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:20:15] Right.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry seems
to be rammed full of overly entitled douches
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:48] whot hink it's totally
justified that we support evey bit of shitty kit they have
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:51] fucking wireless vendors
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:00] every new MODEL they release
has to come with an entirely new set of mibs
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:04] it's ridiculous
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:21:11] You're a victim of your own
success.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:23] and none of these people
will ever listen when you tell them
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:32] adn they just keep coming
back and coming back
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:35] he's asked here a few times
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:40] and we've had these
conversations on the mailing list
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:44] and god knows what else
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:02] and you'd think
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:03] when someone says
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:07] "fuck off, it's not going to
happen"
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:13] you'd realise that was,
well, that
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:22:53] I guess he really sees the
advantages of Observium, and is keen for you to have further market
penetration... over your express wishes (-:
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:06] no, he's keen to have his
own pet hardware supported
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:23:12] That too.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:21] we already support 4
different families of cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:28] but apparently that doesn't
include the devices he has
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:44] and i'm sure if i checked,
we'd only have like 2-3 users using cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:24:52] You could spend a few dozen
man months of eye-straining, back-breaking labour adding in some kind of
horribly complex and fucked up extensible API for 3rd party MIBs, and then
telling people they can add whatever the fuck support/devices they like, but
there's no support for it.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:06] or not
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:25:14] Party-pooper.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:25:39] And people said you were a
nice guy.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:46] rarely
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:55] and even more rarely in here
\o/
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:26:49] we have 3 cambium ptp400
devices and 5 cambium ptp800 devices
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:27:00] in our entire userbase
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:27:24] 1086 cambium canopy devices
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:27:31] but, ofc, he said they
weren't important and not to bother with them
On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 7:46 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
I had got the impression that he didn't even want user contributions.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Auer" <j...@tapodi.net>
To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 2:59:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS
It's more than just OIDs, adding device support involves a fair amount of
fiddly little things. Finding/cropping icon, regex to match the OS/device type
to handle it correctly, logic to handle the device-specific things, logic to
work around whatever they broke in the MIB (remember when Cambium returned
strings instead of ints for some counters?). Then more testing.
That's what makes Observium more useful out of the box than something
like Cacti where you're adding OIDs onesey twosey to device templates.
I think a big part of his reaction is, if you watch IRC, for the past few
months to years there have been people asking for WISP features and pretty much
nobody in a place to write code to do it. My guess is he is time constrained
and would rather work on other things (hence non-responsiveness to offers of
money) combined with not wanting to deal with what could be perceived as
self-entitled communication from some users.
The hostile reaction to WISP gear:
CMMMicro is a switch that doesn't even use the switch MIB -> Work done to
support WISP devices doesn't pay off in helping support other
Enterprise/Wireline devices.
Cambium is extra special because they version the PMP MIB against OS rev
instead of starting out with a well-designed MIB as spec and fixing OS to
match. The easy way out is to ignore that and use the latest but what happens
when Cambium updates something? Bug reports from users on new OS complaining
that something doesn't work. You update and now there's bug reports from the
users that want to stay on old OS for a while. The hard way? Handle every OS
rev differently/code gardening responsibility? You just can't win.
<I digress>
So, WISP gear, he doesn't need it and doesn't care. I need it and care so
I write what I need. I may not appreciate the politics of Observium but I'm
being pragmatic. I contributed what little Cambium PMP device support there is
in Observium currently and I have more devices I'd like to see supported. If
the time comes that my contributions are turned away I'll look for another
monitoring solution, not out of spite but because I need to monitor all the
things.
There may come a time when I move to LibreNMS. They seem to have openness
& saying yes down but I want to see how they handle saying no to extraneous
things/feature creep beyond monitoring metrics (e.g. if it were me, allow/keep
rancid integration but just say no to generalized IPAM).
You can't please everyone and who/how they choose to please will be
insightful.
</I digress>
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
Do we know why Adam blows up whenever people specify OIDs they want to
track? I've never bothered to figure it out myself. He made it seem like hte
OID was such a small part of everything that needed to be done.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Neil Lathwood" <neil.lathw...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:08:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS
On 31 March 2015 at 19:04, WaveDirect <li...@wavedirect.org> wrote:
Yeah you should accept at least equipment donations :) Some of us
may have spares we can part with and after you are done sell them to help buy
other products you want to support.
The donation of equipment is a huge ++++. It wouldn't be necessary to
send the kit anywhere just provide snmp access, that way we can see what data
is available and work on adding support.
Thanks,
Neil
