In related news, PRTG apparently is now free up to 100 sensors.
-----Original Message----- From: Paul Stewart
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 12:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS
So this guy doesn't realize that by complaining about a customer base
he clearly doesn't want, that he effects the opinion of folks who
already own his product or might be looking at his product?
Given his public "bitching" about a certain market share that he
clearly doesn't understand anything about, I will not be providing him
*anymore* business - that's for sure! Why would I want to associate
myself with an immature, unprofessional, "little kid" ?
-p
-----Original Message-----
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Observium Connoisseur
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 1:43 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS
He's making more friends over at the UBNT forum. Its an EPIC
meltdown. The guy has just literally lost his marbles.
https://community.ubnt.com/t5/The-Lounge/AFMUG-What-Adam-Armstrong-of-Observium-thinks-of-WISPS/td-p/1219320/page/3
Looks like some of it may have been taken down. But here's a nice
entry post by Adam. I guess we are irrelevant...
--------------
"Let me put this another way.
You guys wanted something from me, but you didn't get it. The ensuing
toys-from-pram tantrum has really done nothing to negatively effect
me, but it has pretty much ensured that Observium, as an organisation,
has lost all interest in catering to your requirements.
It doesn't matter to us financially, you guys are probably less than
1% of our user base. You're statistically irrelevant. We actually had
the best sales day today that we've had in the past 30 days.
At the end of the day, acting like petulent pre-schoolers and deciding
to inflict the stone-age horrors of Cacti or LibreNMS on yourselves
because you don't like me, well, that just makes me happy, since it
hurts you to a level of which I would be incable whilst having no
negative effects on those WISPs.
Also, this thread is so ram-packed with factual inaccuracies and basic
failures at comprehending words that I'm not at all surprised that
this nonsense happened.
Have fun cutting off your nose to spite your face!"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Waldrop" <gwl...@cngwireless.net>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2015 3:19:25 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS
He's going to be making friends all over with stuff like this...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless industry
seems to be rammed full of overly entitled douches
----- Original Message ----- From: That One Guy /sarcasm
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2015 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of WISPS
I like this observium guy
On Apr 4, 2015 5:53 PM, "Jon Auer" <j...@tapodi.net> wrote:
Until I see evidence to the contrary (just did a svn up and no wisp
gear has been removed...) I'm treating that entire exchange as the
internet equivalent of some drunk (Smeg) walking up to you(Adam) in
the bar and grabbing your arm and saying have your wife dance with me.
You're like, that's her choice and she says no. Repeating as the night
goes on. Eventually maybe you snap, say some unkind things because you
want the drunk to get lost and he just isn't taking the hint.
That wasn't the first IRC exchange between them and others. Adam's
volatility is well known but in this case I believe he was sorely
provoked.
We've all experienced the client from hell. Thing is, maybe some of
us are the client from hell.
What happened in IRC after may help understand where he is coming
from...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:18:33] While I completely
understand that you're the author and shit, and what you say goes.
period... wasn't that a bit of an overreaction?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:18:56] BenA: you have no
fucking idea
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:05] I don't, it's true.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:06] these people will
not take no for an answer
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:07] they go on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:08] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:09] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:10] and on
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:20] Couldn't you just,
like, look away from the screen?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:23] BUT MUH SUPPORT,
MILLIONS OF USERS, PLZ
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:32] couldn't you?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:38] Ask him if he wants to
pay. if he doesn't, ignore?
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:19:46] oh, they all say
they want to pay
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:19:49] Ah.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:10] but when they
realise it costs more than $5...
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:20:15] Right.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:31] the wireless
industry seems to be rammed full of overly entitled douches
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:48] whot hink it's
totally justified that we support evey bit of shitty kit they have
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:20:51] fucking wireless
vendors
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:00] every new MODEL they
release has to come with an entirely new set of mibs
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:04] it's ridiculous
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:21:11] You're a victim of
your own success.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:23] and none of these
people will ever listen when you tell them
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:32] adn they just keep
coming back and coming back
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:35] he's asked here a
few times
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:40] and we've had these
conversations on the mailing list
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:21:44] and god knows what else
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:02] and you'd think
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:03] when someone says
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:07] "fuck off, it's not
going to happen"
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:22:13] you'd realise that
was, well, that
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:22:53] I guess he really sees
the advantages of Observium, and is keen for you to have further
market penetration... over your express wishes (-:
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:06] no, he's keen to
have his own pet hardware supported
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:23:12] That too.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:21] we already support 4
different families of cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:28] but apparently that
doesn't include the devices he has
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:23:44] and i'm sure if i
checked, we'd only have like 2-3 users using cambium kit
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:24:52] You could spend a few
dozen man months of eye-straining, back-breaking labour adding in some
kind of horribly complex and fucked up extensible API for 3rd party
MIBs, and then telling people they can add whatever the fuck
support/devices they like, but there's no support for it.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:06] or not
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:25:14] Party-pooper.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <BenA> [09:25:39] And people said you
were a nice guy.
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:46] rarely
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:25:55] and even more rarely
in here \o/
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:26:49] we have 3 cambium
ptp400 devices and 5 cambium ptp800 devices
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:27:00] in our entire userbase
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:27:24] 1086 cambium canopy
devices
[2015-04-04T01:39:59-0500] <@adama> [09:27:31] but, ofc, he said
they weren't important and not to bother with them
On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 7:46 AM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
I had got the impression that he didn't even want user
contributions.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Auer" <j...@tapodi.net>
To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2015 2:59:53 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of
WISPS
It's more than just OIDs, adding device support involves a fair
amount of fiddly little things. Finding/cropping icon, regex to match
the OS/device type to handle it correctly, logic to handle the
device-specific things, logic to work around whatever they broke in
the MIB (remember when Cambium returned strings instead of ints for
some counters?). Then more testing.
That's what makes Observium more useful out of the box than
something like Cacti where you're adding OIDs onesey twosey to device
templates.
I think a big part of his reaction is, if you watch IRC, for the
past few months to years there have been people asking for WISP
features and pretty much nobody in a place to write code to do it. My
guess is he is time constrained and would rather work on other things
(hence non-responsiveness to offers of money) combined with not
wanting to deal with what could be perceived as self-entitled
communication from some users.
The hostile reaction to WISP gear:
CMMMicro is a switch that doesn't even use the switch MIB -> Work
done to support WISP devices doesn't pay off in helping support other
Enterprise/Wireline devices.
Cambium is extra special because they version the PMP MIB against
OS rev instead of starting out with a well-designed MIB as spec and
fixing OS to match. The easy way out is to ignore that and use the
latest but what happens when Cambium updates something? Bug reports
from users on new OS complaining that something doesn't work. You
update and now there's bug reports from the users that want to stay on
old OS for a while. The hard way? Handle every OS rev differently/code
gardening responsibility? You just can't win.
<I digress>
So, WISP gear, he doesn't need it and doesn't care. I need it and
care so I write what I need. I may not appreciate the politics of
Observium but I'm being pragmatic. I contributed what little Cambium
PMP device support there is in Observium currently and I have more
devices I'd like to see supported. If the time comes that my
contributions are turned away I'll look for another monitoring
solution, not out of spite but because I need to monitor all the things.
There may come a time when I move to LibreNMS. They seem to have
openness & saying yes down but I want to see how they handle saying no
to extraneous things/feature creep beyond monitoring metrics (e.g. if
it were me, allow/keep rancid integration but just say no to
generalized IPAM).
You can't please everyone and who/how they choose to please will
be insightful.
</I digress>
On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net>
wrote:
Do we know why Adam blows up whenever people specify OIDs they
want to track? I've never bothered to figure it out myself. He made it
seem like hte OID was such a small part of everything that needed to
be done.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Neil Lathwood" <neil.lathw...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 1:08:23 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] What Adam Armstrong of Observium thinks of
WISPS
On 31 March 2015 at 19:04, WaveDirect <li...@wavedirect.org>
wrote:
Yeah you should accept at least equipment donations :) Some
of us may have spares we can part with and after you are done sell
them to help buy other products you want to support.
The donation of equipment is a huge ++++. It wouldn't be
necessary to send the kit anywhere just provide snmp access, that way
we can see what data is available and work on adding support.
Thanks,
Neil