So I gather you are not the VOIP service provider ? but you sold them the phones ?
Additional out of the box suggestion... If you are / were the VOIP service provider, (i.e you have a revenue stream coming from it), and or you are responsible for maintaining them..... You could potentially consider, offering an upgrade / trade in or even replace so that you don't have to deal with the heartburn related to GrandStream firmware to a better phone.... e.g some of the better quality phones polycom's, snom, linksys, cisco etc go for a song on the secondary markets.. Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- > From: "George Skorup" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 4:26:22 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP VoIP QoS > Nope, nothing personal. Discussion is great, new ideas can come from it. > As far as the Grandstream phones, we can't tell the customer, sorry, these > won't work, you have to buy 10-20 new ones, Polycom, Snom, whatever it may > be. If I was the customer, I'd be saying the same thing.. that's not my > problem because you sold them to me. The reseller says, nope, you have to > work with Grandstream support, and they are completely right. So we're stuck > in the middle looking like assholes to the customer. > I'll give this to Cambium 2.0, they are definitely more responsive and paying > attention. > On 6/7/2015 1:57 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > > Please don't take this personal, just take it as constructive criticism.... > > > >> Trying to get the guys to remember to add a bunch of rules in a radio > > >> probably won't happen. > > > I think you may have a QC / installation process issue (aka provisioning), > > which you are trying to compensate for. > > > >> Maybe I'm a nazi when it comes to the network, but.. don't touch the > > >> network and I won't have to kill you. > > > Instead of taking this stance, I suggest you look into how to make changes > > without someone screwing up something else by mistake. > > > (hint.. changing stuff via scripts is one way to do this). > > > >>> It took them a YEAR to fix the stuff we showed them was broken in their > > >>> software! But no, we're the asshole to the customer which forces us to > > >>> hack shit to make it work, and then it's still not up to the customer's > > >>> expectations. > > > Why are you/your customers insisting on using GrandStream phone ? > > > Just another suggestion:- > > > We would much rather run a 'standard' based network, and not customize > > these > > types of settings on the Radios.. If we ran into this type of a situation, > > we would offer a managed router service (free or nominal charge), and or > > use > > a mikrotik router as a dmarc on the customer prem, and do all the funny > > business customization on that. > > > Regards > > > Faisal Imtiaz > > > Snappy Internet & Telecom > > > 7266 SW 48 Street > > > Miami, FL 33155 > > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "George Skorup" <[email protected]> > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 2:24:36 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP VoIP QoS > > > > > > Right. As I said, I've never had to change any of the DiffServ code > > > points > > > on > > > any Canopy radio. Trying to get the guys to remember to add a bunch of > > > rules > > > in a radio probably won't happen. It's easier for me to tell them to just > > > turn on HP. Maybe I'm a nazi when it comes to the network, but.. don't > > > touch > > > the network and I won't have to kill you. > > > > > > Anyway.. the new Grandstream firmware, how awesome is this.. the SIP QoS > > > default is DSCP 26, which is LP on Canopy. Knowing that, I DO NOT want > > > the > > > guys touching the DiffServ code points in the radios. It's easier to > > > configure the phones with SIP DSCP 12 and RTP DSCP 46. To accommodate the > > > stupid/broken devices, I already have other rules on the network that > > > prioritizes SIP as 12 and RTP as 46. I like standards. OK, my standards. > > > > > > On 6/7/2015 12:59 PM, Josh Luthman wrote: > > > > > > > Works on Canopy, though. > > > > > > > > > > Josh Luthman > > > > > > > > > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > > > > > > > > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > > > > > > > > > 1100 Wayne St > > > > > > > > > > Suite 1337 > > > > > > > > > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Mike Hammett < [email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Having only half listened to the thread, it sounds like broken > > > > > Grandstream > > > > > VoIP is broke on ePMP. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike Hammett > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Intelligent Computing Solutions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.midwest-ix.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Josh Luthman" < [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 12:54:29 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP VoIP QoS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For this use case (QoS on VoIP): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cambium Canopy works > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cambium ePMP does not work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Seems that simple to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Josh Luthman > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Office: 937-552-2340 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Direct: 937-552-2343 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1100 Wayne St > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Suite 1337 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Faisal Imtiaz < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BTW, the latest firmware for GXP 2160 is 1.0.4.23 (did a google > > > > > > search), > > > > > > and > > > > > > the admin manual shows two settings for L3 QOS (one for SIP and one > > > > > > for > > > > > > RTP) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EPMP QOS allows you to modify the default settings to over-ride to > > > > > > your > > > > > > taste. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I understand your 'complaint' you are dealing with f**ed up > > > > > > GrandStream > > > > > > Phones, and you want Cambium to Change the Default handling of VOIP > > > > > > QoS > > > > > > to > > > > > > match your needs ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now that does not make any logical sense... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The default setup for QoS Voip on EPMP is perfectly fine for all of > > > > > > the > > > > > > other > > > > > > devices which follow the industry standard of VOIP/Video packet > > > > > > marking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Unless there is something that I am totally missing, I think you > > > > > > are > > > > > > taking > > > > > > out your frustrations with GrandStream on Cambium ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Faisal Imtiaz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Snappy Internet & Telecom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7266 SW 48 Street > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Miami, FL 33155 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "George Skorup" < [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 3:06:27 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ePMP VoIP QoS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 1.0.4.17 firmware for the GXP phones (we have mostly 2160s > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 30s and 40s) cannot be downgraded since it contains a security > > > > > > > fix. > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have a couple phones that are now fk'n stuck on that because of > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We're running an internal engineering build on some phones with > > > > > > > fixes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for their screwed up SIP message handling and corrupt outgoing > > > > > > > messages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some phones we have not upgraded from 1.0.3.9 because it mostly > > > > > > > works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those firmwares allows separate SIP and RTP QOS. We're > > > > > > > doing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > testing and validation of 1.0.4.23 with our switch vendor > > > > > > > currently, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which does do the split QoS. About half of the bug fixes listed > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > .21/.23 release notes were ours. Just have to wait and see what > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shit is broken now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But besides all that, I have other phones and ATAs (both > > > > > > > Grandstream > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not) that refuse to send SIP with anything other than DSCP12, > > > > > > > even > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's configurable. I don't really care if SIP is sent with AF and > > > > > > > RTP > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EF, that's perfectly acceptable. RTP should be higher priority > > > > > > > than > > > > > > > SIP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anyway. Standard DiffServ config supports this just fine. So as > > > > > > > far > > > > > > > as > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the network is concerned, I have to support AF and EF, and I'm > > > > > > > fine > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that. All I was saying is that Cambium should do this out of the > > > > > > > box > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ePMP if you turn on VoIP priority. This is what happens on Canopy > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you turn on HP on an SM, both DSCP12 and 46 end up in the HP > > > > > > > channel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/7/2015 1:11 AM, Josh Reynolds wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what grandstream devices you are looking at, but > > > > > > > > 21xx > > > > > > > > series > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the other Linux and android based phones don't have that > > > > > > > > issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Neither does the asterisk based UCMs, such as the 6104. > > > > > > > > Screenshots > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 6, 2015 8:17 PM, George Skorup < [email protected] > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I disagree. This is exactly what Canopy does. DSCP12/AF is > > > > > > > >> sent > > > > > > > >> over > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> HP channel. Look at the default DiffServ table and see for > > > > > > > >> yourself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Many managed switches are set up exactly the same way, except > > > > > > > >> they > > > > > > > >> have > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> more queues, and Canopy only has MIR and HP. Well, there's LP > > > > > > > >> CIR, > > > > > > > >> but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> lets not get into that. ePMP just has "priority" which I > > > > > > > >> assume > > > > > > > >> means > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> priority over everything else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I need a way to correct stupid manufacturer's mistakes > > > > > > > >> (Grandstream > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> being the worst offender). Lots of their devices ALWAYS send > > > > > > > >> SIP > > > > > > > >> packets > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> as DSCP12 and this CANNOT be changed. Or the other one I > > > > > > > >> mentioned, > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> GXP phones have one DSCP setting and this changes both SIP and > > > > > > > >> RTP. > > > > > > > >> I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> disgusted with their stupidity, but unfortunately it has to be > > > > > > > >> supported > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> because those devices aren't going away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> It's totally doable and Cambium could add it by default, > > > > > > > >> saving > > > > > > > >> me > > > > > > > >> time > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> configuring every radio with it. Or just make DiffServ on ePMP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> work/configure like Canopy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I don't care what's wrong or right. I care about shit working > > > > > > > >> right > > > > > > > >> now > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> and customers not being pissy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> So the burden falls on the network as usual. It's always our > > > > > > > >> fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Sometimes I just don't know how I haven't murdered people. If > > > > > > > >> I > > > > > > > >> drank, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> it would probably happen. And I'm finding myself agreeing with > > > > > > > >> that > > > > > > > >> one > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> guy Steve every other day now. Stupidity has no limit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On 6/6/2015 10:31 PM, Faisal Imtiaz wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Yo Cambium, you need to add DSCP 12 (Assured Forwarding) in > > > > > > > >>>> addition > > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> DSCP 46 (Expedited Forwarding) to the default VoIP priority > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> configuration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> That would be a mistake and the wrong thing to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> We're finding more devices sending SIP packets as AF and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> RTP as EF. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> When a device is mis-configured, why should the burden of > > > > > > > >>> dealing > > > > > > > >>> with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> that mis-configurtion as a default fall on another device > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> There is plenty of flexibility to override the wrong setup of > > > > > > > >>> a > > > > > > > >>> device, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> if that is they way you want to correct it in your radios... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> (Which by all standards would be the wrong way to fix > > > > > > > >>> it...but > > > > > > > >>> more > > > > > > > >>> power > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> to you). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Two wrongs don't make a right.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Faisal Imtiaz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Snappy Internet & Telecom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> 7266 SW 48 Street > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Miami, FL 33155 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: > > > > > > > >>> [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> From: "George Skorup" < [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> To: [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2015 10:27:05 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Subject: [AFMUG] ePMP VoIP QoS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Yo Cambium, you need to add DSCP 12 (Assured Forwarding) in > > > > > > > >>>> addition > > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> DSCP 46 (Expedited Forwarding) to the default VoIP priority > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> configuration. We're finding more devices sending SIP > > > > > > > >>>> packets > > > > > > > >>>> as > > > > > > > >>>> AF > > > > > > > >>>> and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> RTP as EF. AF isn't prioritized and out-of-band signaling > > > > > > > >>>> (prompts, > > > > > > > >>>> etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> are sent as SIP messages so sometimes these are getting > > > > > > > >>>> dropped, > > > > > > > >>>> not > > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> mention registrations, invites, etc. And more devices are > > > > > > > >>>> stupid > > > > > > > >>>> (mostly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Grandstream), they only let you set ONE priority value for > > > > > > > >>>> the > > > > > > > >>>> entire > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> device. These are coming default as DSCP12/AF. I've tried to > > > > > > > >>>> get > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> everyone to change this to 46, but they don't remember. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> Or just apply the whole Canopy DiffServ table. We've never > > > > > > > >>>> had > > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > > >>>> change > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> any of those code points. Turn HP on, it just works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
