Here is the problem with those who don't know history, or even recent history....
Last time I checked, Saddam was a dictator, a ruthless one, who was supported by the US, because he was the 'hedge' against Iran. Why ? because it is common knowledge that Iraq is Shia Majority, and any democratic gov. there would be aligned to Iran. All the charades about Iraq have been how to produce an outcome which is democratic in presentation and does not put the Shia majority in power ! Go figure that one out ! Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net > From: "Rory Conaway" <r...@triadwireless.net> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 6:25:58 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français > We installed a dictator and we let him act like a dictator. In Iraq, we > installed a Democracy but we left it in the hands of ideologues. We also > alienated the military and just dumped everyone out. If we do it right, > Democracy thrives, we have a Middle Eastern ally and we hold influence meaning > our allies still trust us. We cut and ran for politics. > Rory > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett > Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 4:22 PM > To: af@afmug.com > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français > Rory, we already tried that strategy with Iran...the puppet government that we > instilled for over a generation was overthrown and we now have an Iran that is > governed as a theocratic Islamic republic :-/ > 2 cents > -sean > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Rory Conaway < r...@triadwireless.net > > wrote: >> Sean, I’d love to take the bait but I can’t even think of something smarmy to >> say with the devastation in Paris hours after our President says that ISIS >> was >> contained. It’s a very sad moment. Unfortunately, when you add in the >> millions >> who are now homeless, displaced, and dead, because our governmental leaders, >> and by extension, the voters that put them in power, I think that uneducated >> should also mean putting ideology in front of common sense and the lessons of >> history. Iraq needed a heavy glove until a satisfactory government structure >> that could be put in place over a generation or more, until the hatred of the >> current generation was phased out and a better society with more opportunity >> and education was put in place. This wasn’t going to happen in an election >> cycle, especially with the differences between the parties. >> Rory >> From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Sean Heskett >> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 3:55 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >> <sarcasm> >> yes it is usually very hard to argue logic with republicans ;-) >> "It’s very hard to argue logic with people who are uneducated, poor, and have >> been indoctrinated from birth to an ideology." >> </sarcasm> >> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:45 PM, Rory Conaway < r...@triadwireless.net > >> wrote: >>> If we are up front about it, Germany, Japan, etc…, it seems to work. But we >>> installed Democracies there with people who didn’t put ideology in front of >>> the >>> rule of law. In the Middle East, ideology is the rule of law. It’s very >>> hard to >>> argue logic with people who are uneducated, poor, and have been >>> indoctrinated >>> from birth to an ideology. >>> Rory >>> From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard >>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 1:04 PM >>> To: af < af@afmug.com > >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >>> It seems to have worked okay in Germany and Japan... but that was a bit >>> different. otherwise, I can't think of a case where it really ever has >>> worked. >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:49 PM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: >>>> My simple mind concludes whenever we go somewhere and attempt to alter the >>>> political landscape by force or dirty tricks it always makes things worse >>>> in >>>> the long run. Has it ever worked? >>>> When the people decide to change their situation then there is sometimes >>>> lasting >>>> change. >>>> From: Faisal Imtiaz >>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 12:38 PM >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >>>> I think you all are missing the point.... When it comes to foreign policy >>>> it is >>>> done with all sides involved, along with the give and take, when things go >>>> right, everyone stands up and says 'We did it".... when something goes >>>> wrong, >>>> everyone stands up and says.. "He or She did it", and "I told you so >>>> otherwise". >>>> Excuse the language but ... 'We have been F**ing in other Gov. affairs, >>>> known >>>> and unknown for a very long time, and the results of such have consequences >>>> which linger for a very long time..'.... It is easy to play armchair >>>> political >>>> analysts with a short term view, but the picture changes when the view >>>> expands >>>> with History..." >>>> case and point... How many here know and realize what is the cause of US >>>> Iran's >>>> rocky relationship..... ? >>>> The roots of this is traced back to actions in the 1950's .... >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d'%C3%A9tat >>>> (read the first sentence carefully, and then think of how you can have a >>>> conversation with them about democracy ) >>>> While we is the west tend not to have long memories, and stay awake during >>>> History Classes, those affected, tend not to forget ! >>>> Iraq is a similar deal...that country has Shia majority.... so it is very >>>> likely >>>> that any Democratically elected gov will be tilted towards the Shia's, >>>> that is >>>> not something US & Britain are in favor off, nor the regional Arab >>>> dictatorships... thus the status quo.... >>>> Regards >>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>>> Miami, FL 33155 >>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >>>>> From: "Jeff Broadwick - Lists" < jeffl...@att.net > >>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 2:00:53 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >>>>> There are a number of actions, under a pretty wide set of circumstances, >>>>> where >>>>> the US President can act without Congressional approval. All Presidents >>>>> push >>>>> the boundaries. No one really wants to test the Constitutionality of the >>>>> War >>>>> Powers Act (it's likely unconstitutional). >>>>> Jeff Broadwick >>>>> ConVergence Technologies , Inc. >>>>> 312-205-2519 Office >>>>> 574-220-7826 Cell >>>>> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com >>>>> On Nov 16, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Faisal Imtiaz < fai...@snappytelecom.net > >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> You are half correct. There a number of small facts that you have >>>>>> missed, but if >>>>>> you follow the explanation, rightfully so. >>>>>> News organizations are in the business of making $. The only report what >>>>>> they >>>>>> can sell in that particular market. e.g CNN supplies news feeds to the >>>>>> world, >>>>>> it's just not the same news feed that they supply to everyone. News >>>>>> feed, for >>>>>> the US is very different what they supply to their 'international >>>>>> customers' >>>>>> This is true for all of the news broadcasters. >>>>>> BTW, Al Jazeera has been kicked out of many 'Muslim' countries due to >>>>>> their >>>>>> coverage and reporting. >>>>>> BBC is commissioned by Her Majesty, as such the loyalty to the British >>>>>> Empire... >>>>>> Here is the part that I don't understand...... >>>>>> Everything that I know about the US Gov. System, when it comes to >>>>>> foreign policy >>>>>> the President cannot take uni-lateral action...it has to have the >>>>>> Congress's >>>>>> blessing.. >>>>>> So why is it when one is talking about the US's actions, everyone refers >>>>>> to it >>>>>> as if the US President is acting like any of the other dictators. >>>>>> Is is just a way to dump on a President cause he or she is from the >>>>>> other party >>>>>> ? >>>>>> Last time I checked, irrespective of all the rhetoric from Washington, >>>>>> all >>>>>> parties were equally responsible for participating in actions which have >>>>>> lead >>>>>> to Foreign Policy failure after failure... >>>>>> Regards. >>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>>>>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>>>>> Miami, FL 33155 >>>>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>>>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: supp...@snappytelecom.net >>>>>>> From: "Rory Conaway" < r...@triadwireless.net > >>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 12:44:40 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>> français >>>>>>> News as a disinterested third party, is pretty much dead. All news >>>>>>> organizations >>>>>>> have a political leaning including BBC, Al Jazeera, and NPR. In many >>>>>>> cases it’s >>>>>>> not what they report, it’s what they fail to report that is just as bad >>>>>>> or >>>>>>> worse. BBC rarely reports anything negative about the British >>>>>>> Government and is >>>>>>> as bad as the New York Times about not reporting anything negative >>>>>>> about a >>>>>>> Democrat. Of course both of them do it, but the amount of time or the >>>>>>> amount of >>>>>>> resources will be far less than the opposite side of the side of the >>>>>>> issue. Al >>>>>>> Jazeera never reports anything bad about the Muslim or Islamic faith >>>>>>> and NPR is >>>>>>> almost as bad as the BBC when it comes to never saying anything about a >>>>>>> liberal >>>>>>> government. I think NBC, CBS, and ABC have the same advisor telling >>>>>>> them what >>>>>>> negative information not to report on Obama for example. As for NPR, >>>>>>> they lost >>>>>>> all credibility with me when they fired Juan Williams because he said >>>>>>> something >>>>>>> their management didn’t like and he is a huge liberal. >>>>>>> There is an argument now that Google can pretty much influence an >>>>>>> election by a >>>>>>> huge amount by pushing positive news information in their search engine >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> their liberal candidate up while simultaneously doing the same thing in >>>>>>> a >>>>>>> negative light towards a Conservative candidate. >>>>>>> At this point, it’s pretty much up to us to watch news organizations >>>>>>> from both >>>>>>> sides of the aisle and try to sort out the truth. >>>>>>> Rory >>>>>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Paul McCall >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 8:11 AM >>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>> français >>>>>>> +1. Since we have a pretty good idea of what slant that CNN and Foxnews >>>>>>> will put >>>>>>> on things without looking, respectively, I just glance at that both >>>>>>> once in a >>>>>>> while. BBC is a good choice. >>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 9:34 AM >>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>> français >>>>>>> BBC is good. Al Jazeera is surprisingly informative and seems to lack >>>>>>> spin. >>>>>>> I listen to NPR continually. >>>>>>> Card carrying GOP but am truly libertarian, cannot vote demo primarily >>>>>>> due to >>>>>>> guns and the abortion issue. >>>>>>> Fox news is like eating a whole bag of halloween candy. After watching >>>>>>> fox I >>>>>>> have to watch some Rachael Maddow to be able to drive straight again. >>>>>>> (In reality, I avoid TV news. Radio and Google News is were most of my >>>>>>> disinformation comes from). >>>>>>> I don’t like apologists, religious or otherwise. I like the best truths >>>>>>> I can >>>>>>> find. >>>>>>> I really hate partisan politics. Blood sport all based on pride and self >>>>>>> aggrandizement. Does nothing for the people. >>>>>>> From: Glen Waldrop >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 7:20 AM >>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >>>>>>> You're right on one thing, politics is not as cut and dried as all of >>>>>>> that. >>>>>>> Obama is a jackass. >>>>>>> Fox news is far from perfect. >>>>>>> As a businessman though I recommend not calling your potential >>>>>>> customers dumb >>>>>>> though. Fox may be a group of liars, but at this point in time they are >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> least biased news source in the US (50% biased vs 100%). Pretty much >>>>>>> all of the >>>>>>> rest of them are brown nosing the left so bad I can't see how they >>>>>>> haven't >>>>>>> suffocated themselves. >>>>>>> When I want news with little BS I tend to lean towards BBC myself. >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>> From: Patrick Leary >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2015 7:24 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>>> français >>>>>>>> The world is such a simple place when everything is Obama’s fault. >>>>>>>> Somebody smashes a glass to the ground. 12 years later, people blinded >>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> partisanship blame the person who tried to glue some of the pieces back >>>>>>>> together, but the glass still won’t hold water so it must be his fault. >>>>>>>> Extremely disordered cognitive functioning. >>>>>>>> …Never mind the real subtleties all the “informed” people on the Right >>>>>>>> seem to >>>>>>>> forget, chief among them that the IRAQI POLITICIANS SAID THE ONLY WAY >>>>>>>> WE COULD >>>>>>>> KEEP OUR TROOPS IN COUNTRY WAS TO REMOVE THEIR IMMUNITY AND MAKE THEM >>>>>>>> SUBJECT >>>>>>>> TO LIABILITY AND PROSECUTION. No one on this side of the pond wanted >>>>>>>> that, from >>>>>>>> the DoD to BOTH parties. Of course, FOX viewers either are too dumb to >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> this or intentionally pretend that was not the reality, in order to >>>>>>>> take yet >>>>>>>> another “it’s Obama’s fault” grade school insult. It’s just way more >>>>>>>> satisfying >>>>>>>> or simpler for their juvenile world view to believe “it’s Obama’s >>>>>>>> fault!” What, >>>>>>>> are you 10 years old? >>>>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/world/middleeast/iraqis-say-no-to-immunity-for-remaining-american-troops.html?_r=0 >>>>>>>> People really need to educate themselves before spewing childish >>>>>>>> partisan memes. >>>>>>>> Patrick >>>>>>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Rory Conaway >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2015 8:53 AM >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>>> français >>>>>>>> We had our chance to stop it in Iraq, we cut and run. >>>>>>>> And you are right, we didn’t do the right bombing in Vietnam to stop >>>>>>>> that war. >>>>>>>> And what Ford did at the end is the lesson Obama should have learned >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> could have prevented much of what happened in the Middle East >>>>>>>> including ISIS. >>>>>>>> Apparently they didn’t teach history to at Harvard. Imagine the >>>>>>>> influence a >>>>>>>> multi-cultural and stable Iraqi government would have had on the >>>>>>>> region. >>>>>>>> Rory >>>>>>>> From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Lewis Bergman >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2015 6:31 AM >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>>> français >>>>>>>> Collateral damage is highly underrated. Vietnam had no wholesale >>>>>>>> bombing like >>>>>>>> WWII. that is one reason Vietnam, and the rest of these conflicts, >>>>>>>> last so >>>>>>>> long. >>>>>>>> The horror of war has to be brought to everyone, including those >>>>>>>> making the >>>>>>>> decisions, to bring it to an end. >>>>>>>> But having said that, this Muslim extremists movement has been been >>>>>>>> going on for >>>>>>>> about 700 years so it may be to much to expect to be out of war again. >>>>>>>> There >>>>>>>> may be a lull, but I think the entire world has been drawn into the >>>>>>>> middle East >>>>>>>> quagmire. >>>>>>>> The primary cause damn sure isn't a two degrees warming tend in a >>>>>>>> couple >>>>>>>> decades. >>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 15, 2015, 7:05 AM Rory Conaway < r...@triadwireless.net > >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> The problem is that they are basically imbedded with civilians. How >>>>>>>>> do you kill >>>>>>>>> them without taking out everyone else. That is the problem we have >>>>>>>>> had all >>>>>>>>> along. Door-to-door warfare is all that you can do but it’s also the >>>>>>>>> most >>>>>>>>> dangerous for our soldiers and nobody is going to allow wholesale >>>>>>>>> bombing like >>>>>>>>> Nixon did in Vietnam. >>>>>>>>> We also burned a lot of good will in all the countries we need to do >>>>>>>>> this with >>>>>>>>> when we got the local civilians to act as translators and informants >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> abandoned them after the war, the highest profile of them the doctor >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> Pakistan. Even he is still in jail years later but the reality is, >>>>>>>>> nobody >>>>>>>>> trusts us any more in those regions. We are not a reliable ally. >>>>>>>>> Rory >>>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza >>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 11:06 AM >>>>>>>>> To: Animal Farm < af@afmug.com > >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>>>> français >>>>>>>>> as much as i hate war and killing....I agree we need to make a >>>>>>>>> parking lot out >>>>>>>>> of them... >>>>>>>>> Jaime Solorza >>>>>>>>> Wireless Systems Architect >>>>>>>>> 915-861-1390 >>>>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Chuck McCown < ch...@wbmfg.com > >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> The more of this that happens, the more the rest of the world will >>>>>>>>>> unite to rub >>>>>>>>>> them out. I am a hopeless optimist. >>>>>>>>>> From: Jaime Solorza >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2015 7:52 AM >>>>>>>>>> To: Animal Farm >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG][WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis >>>>>>>>>> français >>>>>>>>>> Yes. I am praying for them and the world. What a tragedy.. It is >>>>>>>>>> beyond >>>>>>>>>> barbaric..its evil for the sake of evil. >>>>>>>>>> Jaime Solorza >>>>>>>>>> On Nov 13, 2015 10:15 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" < fai...@snappytelecom.net >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Oui , et pas seulement cela , nos cœurs et nos prières pour tous >>>>>>>>>>> ceux qui sont >>>>>>>>>>> touchés par cette Sensless actes brabaric . >>>>>>>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>>>>>>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>>>>>>>>>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>>>>>>>>>> Miami, FL 33155 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 >>>>>>>>>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: >>>>>>>>>>> supp...@snappytelecom.net >>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Patrick Leary" < patrick.le...@telrad.com > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "WISPA General List" < wirel...@wispa.org >, "Telrad List" < >>>>>>>>>>>> tel...@wispa.org >, af@afmug.com , memb...@canwisp.ca >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2015 7:46:29 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [WISPA] S'il vous plaît priez pour nos amis français >>>>>>>>>>>> Tonght, chaque personne libre est un Parisien. >>>>>>>>>>>> Patrick Leary >>>>>>>>>>>> Telrad >>>>>>>>>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>>>>>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>>>>>>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>>>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>>>>>> viruses. >>>>>>>>>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Wireless mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> wirel...@wispa.org >>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless >>>>>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>> viruses. >>>>>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>>>>> ************************************************************************************ >>>>>>>> This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by >>>>>>>> PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & >>>>>>>> computer >>>>>>>> viruses. >>>>>>>> ************************************************************************************
