Well then, best of luck in your endeavors! On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Brett A Mansfield < li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
> The research I did was very extensive. Wispmon in particular has their > pricing right on their website (which I love by the way. I wish everyone > would). > > You say that billing is the most important part of my business. I > respectfully disagree. It is actually one of the least important. The > product I'm selling is by far the most important, and the customer service > is next. Billing only happens after the first two are met. > > You mentioned several other things: > > *"I'm curious to what other systems you have in place that handle things > like mapping, monitoring, FCC reporting, sales tracking, prospect > qualification, inventory management, ip management, work orders, trouble > tickets, scheduling, provisioning, automated suspension and payments, > reporting, and more in addition to billing?"* > > With the small size of my company this is all very easily managed with > simple (and free) spreadsheets. So this argument is irrelevant to me. When > I get to a size where it is no longer easily managed, then and only then > will I start to pay for a service that can provide that (it will not be > until then that my business can afford to pay for it). > > You then offer advice to pay for this stuff from the beginning. Not > everyone is going to model their business in the way you think or society > thinks it should be. My business model is very, very different from the > norm. It's people that deviate from the "accepted standard", the ones that > think outside the box, that tend to do really well. My idea of success and > my idea of what and how a business should operate are not the same as > yours. > > Billing is something that should not be this difficult and expensive. Why > should I pay 5% of my revenue to someone that does nearly nothing??? If I > take what wispmon charges, add that to what it cost me to run a payment, > and then take out my operating costs, the likelihood of there being much > left is very low. The credit card companies already steal almost 3% before > I even pay the gateway company. Why are there so many different people > involved to make is to I can collect $45 from my customer? > > I really like what stripe, swipe, and PayPal have done by basically taking > one of the people out of that. The only problem is that they aren't set up > well for monthly recurring payments. That is what I intend to close the gap > on. > > Anyone who charges by the sub or has a monthly minimum so high that it > isn't worth it does not have a business model I agree with. > > I had seriously considered wispmon, but quickly ruled them out as soon as > I realized that you charge more for BYO Merchant account. I already have a > merchant account and have no interest in paying $200 to sign up for a new > one I have no experience with, or pay en extra $0.30 per sub per month > because I want to use someone I already use and trust. > > Another problem with Wispmon is that the main website looks like it was > built by using someone's free template that was simply modified old using > basic HTML code. If that is the impression I get from the main website, > what kind of product could they possibly be giving me? Will it look good? > Will it be based on old code too? Will it be easy to use? Too many > questions right off the bat. I'm not at all saying that this is how it is, > just saying that perception is reality. My first impression wasn't good, so > that sets the tone for the rest. > > You then went on to give me unsolicited advice as if to tell me how to be > running my business. My question was not why I should or shouldn't do > something, it was simply what options are out there. I've asked this > question several times and have done very extensive research on several > products. I didn't go that deep into wispmon because of my very first > impressions. And now after the email you sent out I will never consider it > again in the future. > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > > On Dec 9, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Cameron Crum <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote: > > I'm curious what your review consisted of? To my knowledge, you never > contacted us to ask any questions even after an offlist invitation. It > seems if you are going to the trouble of creating something new, you would > at least perform an exhaustive analysis meaning you are talking to someone > to ask questions. I understand you think that perhaps the most important > piece of your business should be free or close to it, but is that really > where you want to skimp? Having owned a wisp for 8 years starting in 2003 > and sold to JAB in 2010, and actually been where you think you are now, > when there really were few platforms available, I would have jumped at the > chance to pay under $1 (or maybe slightly more) per sub to have all the > capability that most of the current systems currently have. I'm curious to > what other systems you have in place that handle things like mapping, > monitoring, FCC reporting, sales tracking, prospect qualification, > inventory management, ip management, work orders, trouble tickets, > scheduling, provisioning, automated suspension and payments, reporting, and > more in addition to billing? If you are using separate systems for all of > these things, then it is probably costing you more than what you would pay > for a single platform which does all of these things. I know you say you > are small and if you are doing all of these things manually or with > multiple platforms, there will be a day when that won't scale and you will > either be killing yourself trying to keep up, or spending far more than you > think to make it all work. My advice would be to do a bit more real > research before you dig into rolling your own. Talk to people who have been > in your shoes and were adverse to spending money on a good system. I tell > people who are evaluating different systems, that even if they don't choose > us, choose one of the ones out there. If you are just getting started, it > is the best decision you will make. It is much easier to get in at the > beginning than to convert later. The hardest part of being a self-starting > entrepreneur is knowing when to let go of certain things and either pay > someone to do them, or pay to get them out of the way so you can get down > to growing your business. This I know for sure, as it is the hardest part > for me. > > Cameron > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Brett A Mansfield < > li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: > >> To be clear, this will not be a standard in any way. It's just to fill a >> need where I see one. Something for the little guys like myself. This will >> not be a solution for those big customers since it will be limited to >> billing/CRM. >> >> I'm not doing this for profit. I'm doing this on the side and the numbers >> should make it break even. >> >> Eric, I really like that comic strip, it is exactly what I was thinking >> when I thought of doing this. Haha. >> >> There is NOTHING on the market like it though. Something that works, that >> is nearly free, that is for the very small guys where every single penny >> counts. >> >> If nobody in the world uses this system but me, then I'll still feel it >> was worth my time. My partners are volunteering their time and so am I, so >> our cost will be very low to develop this. >> >> Thank you, >> Brett A Mansfield >> >> On Dec 9, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >> wrote: >> >> Good luck. It certainly has been tried before... >> >> >> Josh Luthman >> Office: 937-552-2340 >> Direct: 937-552-2343 >> 1100 Wayne St >> Suite 1337 >> Troy, OH 45373 >> >> On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Brett A Mansfield < >> li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote: >> >>> So, after a lot of review of every billing solution I can find out >>> there, I've come to the conclusion that there is no good billing system. >>> Everything out there either requires you use their merchant, has a minimum >>> monthly cost, or isn't really designed for the ISP. Even the stuff that has >>> come out most recently isn't a good fit. >>> >>> For those of you who are smaller and don't want to pay a monthly >>> minimum, or want to use your choice of merchant, or don't want to pay a per >>> user charge, something new will be coming soon! >>> >>> I've spoken to a few proven software engineers in the financial side of >>> things and we are partnering up to develop a new ISP billing software. It >>> will be turnkey, very easy to use, and can be deployed either by you on >>> your servers, or can be hosted on ours. It will only handle >>> billing/invoicing and CRM/ticketing. Best of all, it's practically free! >>> >>> More details to come. I'll keep you posted when we have more info. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Brett A Mansfield >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >>> >>> Welcome to 2014? >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions >>> http://www.ics-il.com >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange >>> http://www.midwest-ix.com >>> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From: *"Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> >>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Monday, December 7, 2015 1:32:33 PM >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! >>> >>> Ubiquiti has a CRM? >>> >>> On 12/7/2015 2:27 PM, Brett A Mansfield wrote: >>> >>> It's funny you mentioned waveapps. That is what I started out with. It >>> was a disaster. And the fact they don't allow multiple email addresses for >>> recurring invoices was a major deal breaker for me. >>> >>> I've since moved to UBNTs airCRM. It is an excellent setup on paper, but >>> is seriously lacking currently and is very erratic. I need something solid, >>> secure, and that I don't have to worry about all the time. >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Brett A Mansfield >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 12:08 PM, Joshaven Mailing Lists < >>> <lis...@joshaven.com>lis...@joshaven.com> wrote: >>> >>> Plat has excellent support >>> >>> In my opinion, the problems with plat are: >>> 1) The user interface is a pain in the butt and generally discouraging. >>> 2) The software depends on a Windows platform and even worse direct >>> database connections from the client. >>> >>> 1) In most places when you want to alter something like customer data >>> you have to click on the field to edit from a table and then go to the top >>> to make the change in something that is like an address bar… of course you >>> can get used to this but Plat is full of non-user friendly quirks like >>> this. It reminds me of what it feels like to go back and use Windows 95 or >>> Windows 3.1 when I am used to modern operating systems. The system feels >>> almost like directly editing a database except that the software does >>> enforce logical edits so it is not nearly as dangerous as direct database >>> minupulation. >>> >>> 2) If you want to run a good highly available platform then you will be >>> spending a lot on software licensing with Microsoft. What is the going >>> rate for a MSSQL cluster now of days? Of course you can throw this on old >>> rusty crusty in a closet and run the free version of MSSQL but we are >>> carriers not hacks right? Also you are depending on ODBC database >>> connections between your clients and the server. Opening direct database >>> connections to my billing server gives me the creeps even if it is only >>> open to a network under my administration. I’m a fan of local host db >>> access only except for database peers. I would really like to see ISP >>> billing software be web based using standard https protocols and having no >>> client side dependencies like odbc configurations and client executables. >>> Try using Plat on a tablet… I don’t want my billing platform holding back >>> my ability to creatively design my installation process… >>> >>> >>> I feel like I am ragging on Plat… maybe I am a bit but I want to >>> underscore their support. They are truly exceptional to work with and you >>> can rely on their platform. Just don’t expect to enjoy using it. If you >>> like function over form then you may be a perfect match for Plat… I just >>> wish they would do some magic to address the above two complaints. >>> >>> My recommendation to them is to become database & OS agnostic (at least >>> MySQL or MSSQL and run on Apache) and to make the client interface be 100% >>> standards compliment browser based. I suspect if they don’t do this they >>> will find themselves with a EOL product in the next few years. >>> >>> Right now there are really good options emerging like WaveApps. Wave >>> offers free billing including credit card processing at fair rates. They >>> don’t fit perfectly with an ISP (yet) but they are promising an API which >>> means that a good solutions provider can crank out an integrations solution >>> with Wave for front end billing. I am also super excited to see what Sonar >>> has to offer. I hope their offer is solid and we have a glorious solution… >>> >>> >>> At any rate I am waiting with bated breath to see where this lands over >>> the next few months. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Joshaven Potter >>> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA >>> Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com >>> Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370 >>> supp...@joshaven.com >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 9:47 AM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>> >>> I can setup Platypus for billing only in less than an hour, including >>> setting up plans/rates/services/importing customers. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Chuck >>> >>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Josh Luthman < >>> <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That get's to be a little in depth and probably a loaded question...but >>>> I know when we moved to Powercode the old team that wasn't very good had it >>>> done in one afternoon. This was from Quickbooks. >>>> >>>> >>>> Josh Luthman >>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>> Suite 1337 >>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>> >>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Ken Hohhof < <af...@kwisp.com> >>>> af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Are you including database conversion? Items, customers, current >>>>> balances, recurring billing, credit cards, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Then there’s setting up the online customer payment portal. >>>>> Especially if customers already had online accounts. And you need to hook >>>>> it into your merchant account, put your logo on it, test it, etc. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> >>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 05, 2015 2:24 PM >>>>> *To:* <af@afmug.com>af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! >>>>> >>>>> I'm simply saying 2 days is a long time to setup a billing system. >>>>> For someone that wants it running "immediately" 2 days is a LONG time. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Philip Rankin < >>>>> <wireless...@gmail.com>wireless...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey, I'm not in this for an argument. I am just offering to help a >>>>>> guy out if I can. I'll bow out of this conversation. >>>>>> On Dec 5, 2015 1:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" < >>>>>> <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Two days??? Powercode takes like an hour. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Josh Luthman >>>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340 >>>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343 >>>>>>> 1100 Wayne St >>>>>>> Suite 1337 >>>>>>> Troy, OH 45373 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Philip Rankin < >>>>>>> <wireless...@gmail.com>wireless...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Guys, I am still a major believer in Tucows Platypus. Brett, I >>>>>>>> could have you up and running with Plat in under 2 days as long as you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> answer speed and pricing questions as I ask them. And all I would >>>>>>>> need is >>>>>>>> remote access to a Windows 7 computer. Let me know if you are >>>>>>>> interested. >>>>>>>> Most of the training can be done remotely in less than a day, too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Simon Westlake < >>>>>>>> <simon@sonar.software>simon@sonar.software> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think it is still pretty early on. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 12/4/2015 6:22 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So I guess it does that...lol. I wasn't really expecting it to be >>>>>>>>> like that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It's not very baked ? or am I missing something? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Chuck Hogg < <ch...@shelbybb.com> >>>>>>>>> ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I meant for the admin side? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz < >>>>>>>>>> <fai...@snappytelecom.net>fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Just guessing.... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Drop down on top right, select signup/create account ! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> :) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Faisal Imtiaz >>>>>>>>>>> Snappy Internet & Telecom >>>>>>>>>>> 7266 SW 48 Street >>>>>>>>>>> Miami, FL 33155 >>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 <305%20663%205518%20x%20232> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: >>>>>>>>>>> <supp...@snappytelecom.net>supp...@snappytelecom.net >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *From: *"Chuck Hogg" < <ch...@shelbybb.com>ch...@shelbybb.com> >>>>>>>>>>> *To: * <af@afmug.com>af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Friday, December 4, 2015 4:25:07 PM >>>>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone know how to login to his demo? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Simon Westlake < >>>>>>>>>>> <simon@sonar.software>simon@sonar.software> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/spencerlambert/wisp-central-control> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/spencerlambert/wisp-central-control >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/4/2015 10:08 AM, Jeremy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Isn't Spencer Lambert's web front-end free? Last time I saw >>>>>>>>>>>> him at Animal Farm he was touting it and said he would help with >>>>>>>>>>>> setup and >>>>>>>>>>>> customization at a flat rate of $100/hr. He is located in Utah, >>>>>>>>>>>> also. If >>>>>>>>>>>> you want something cheap or free that may be an option. It would >>>>>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>>>>> be worth contacting him. I recommend Powercode. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Craig Schmaderer < >>>>>>>>>>>> <cr...@skywaveconnect.com>cr...@skywaveconnect.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been looking at <https://www.whmcs.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.whmcs.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a friend that uses it for his ventrillo voice business >>>>>>>>>>>>> and it does auto billing and ticketing and is cheap. I think you >>>>>>>>>>>>> can get a >>>>>>>>>>>>> hosted solution if you don't want to install it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Craig schmaderer >>>>>>>>>>>>> Skywave Wireless, Inc. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:41 AM -0800, "Brett A Mansfield" < >>>>>>>>>>>>> <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>li...@silverlakeinternet.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is what I've always said about quality, cheap and fast. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> You can only pick two. You will never have all three. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> For this I need fast and quality. Cheap is relative in this >>>>>>>>>>>>> case. I don't have a lot of customers so the $200/mo min that >>>>>>>>>>>>> visp requires >>>>>>>>>>>>> is about $100-150 too much for me. I'm fine with a reasonable one >>>>>>>>>>>>> time fee, >>>>>>>>>>>>> but it must be reasonable. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I used to use waveapps to just invoice and then customers >>>>>>>>>>>>> could pay using the invoice. But if they didn't get the email or >>>>>>>>>>>>> lost it, >>>>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't pay their bill. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I appreciate everyone's input on this. I think I'm going with >>>>>>>>>>>>> platypus and pay someone to set it up. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I like powercode, I just cannot justify the initial cost for >>>>>>>>>>>>> my small size operation. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brett A Mansfield >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 4, 2015, at 7:47 AM, Chris Fabien < >>>>>>>>>>>>> <ch...@lakenetmi.com>ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good, cheap, and fast? You know what they say about that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We are reasonably happy with Powercode. Few gripes but it has >>>>>>>>>>>>> never double or triple charged our customers. >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 4, 2015 1:35 AM, "Brett A Mansfield" < >>>>>>>>>>>>> <li...@silverlakeinternet.com>li...@silverlakeinternet.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm looking for a good billing solution that is cheap and I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can have up in running immediately. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've had far too many issues with my current billing system. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need something turnkey and cheap. My WISP is a fairly small >>>>>>>>>>>>>> operation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not willing to pay per sub, especially if there is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimum like visp. I don't want to buy any new hardware. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looked at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> platypus, but it cannot be deployed easily or quickly. I looked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> powercode, but I don't want to buy any new hardware. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there anything out there that might fit my needs? Or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> should I just go back to manual invoicing with quickbooks? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brett A Mansfield >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Simon Westlake >>>>>>>>>>>> Skype: Simon_Sonar >>>>>>>>>>>> Email: simon@sonar.software >>>>>>>>>>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 >>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>> Sonar Software Inc >>>>>>>>>>>> The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Simon Westlake >>>>>>>>> Skype: Simon_Sonar >>>>>>>>> Email: simon@sonar.software >>>>>>>>> Phone: (702) 447-1247 >>>>>>>>> --------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Sonar Software Inc >>>>>>>>> The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Philip J. Rankin >>>>>>>> Wireless Telecommunications Services >>>>>>>> PO Box 24 >>>>>>>> Pittsburg, KS 66762 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
