> You then went on to give me unsolicited advice as if to tell me how to be
> running my business.
Brett, if you are going to be offended any time a vendor makes the case for
what his product can do for you, then you are going to be offended a lot.
You don’t have to buy his product or even his logic, but don’t get mad because
he gives you his sales pitch. If a prospective customer isn’t interested in
your Internet service because dialup or Hughesnet or his neighbor’s WiFi meets
his needs, or maybe he questions why he even needs to use the Internet, would
you walk away? Or try to paint the picture of how he would benefit if he used
your service?
It’s the chapter in Sales 101 called “Overcoming Objections”.
From: Brett A Mansfield
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2015 3:44 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!!
The research I did was very extensive. Wispmon in particular has their pricing
right on their website (which I love by the way. I wish everyone would).
You say that billing is the most important part of my business. I respectfully
disagree. It is actually one of the least important. The product I'm selling is
by far the most important, and the customer service is next. Billing only
happens after the first two are met.
You mentioned several other things:
"I'm curious to what other systems you have in place that handle things like
mapping, monitoring, FCC reporting, sales tracking, prospect qualification,
inventory management, ip management, work orders, trouble tickets, scheduling,
provisioning, automated suspension and payments, reporting, and more in
addition to billing?"
With the small size of my company this is all very easily managed with simple
(and free) spreadsheets. So this argument is irrelevant to me. When I get to a
size where it is no longer easily managed, then and only then will I start to
pay for a service that can provide that (it will not be until then that my
business can afford to pay for it).
You then offer advice to pay for this stuff from the beginning. Not everyone is
going to model their business in the way you think or society thinks it should
be. My business model is very, very different from the norm. It's people that
deviate from the "accepted standard", the ones that think outside the box, that
tend to do really well. My idea of success and my idea of what and how a
business should operate are not the same as yours.
Billing is something that should not be this difficult and expensive. Why
should I pay 5% of my revenue to someone that does nearly nothing??? If I take
what wispmon charges, add that to what it cost me to run a payment, and then
take out my operating costs, the likelihood of there being much left is very
low. The credit card companies already steal almost 3% before I even pay the
gateway company. Why are there so many different people involved to make is to
I can collect $45 from my customer?
I really like what stripe, swipe, and PayPal have done by basically taking one
of the people out of that. The only problem is that they aren't set up well for
monthly recurring payments. That is what I intend to close the gap on.
Anyone who charges by the sub or has a monthly minimum so high that it isn't
worth it does not have a business model I agree with.
I had seriously considered wispmon, but quickly ruled them out as soon as I
realized that you charge more for BYO Merchant account. I already have a
merchant account and have no interest in paying $200 to sign up for a new one I
have no experience with, or pay en extra $0.30 per sub per month because I want
to use someone I already use and trust.
Another problem with Wispmon is that the main website looks like it was built
by using someone's free template that was simply modified old using basic HTML
code. If that is the impression I get from the main website, what kind of
product could they possibly be giving me? Will it look good? Will it be based
on old code too? Will it be easy to use? Too many questions right off the bat.
I'm not at all saying that this is how it is, just saying that perception is
reality. My first impression wasn't good, so that sets the tone for the rest.
You then went on to give me unsolicited advice as if to tell me how to be
running my business. My question was not why I should or shouldn't do
something, it was simply what options are out there. I've asked this question
several times and have done very extensive research on several products. I
didn't go that deep into wispmon because of my very first impressions. And now
after the email you sent out I will never consider it again in the future.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On Dec 9, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Cameron Crum <cc...@wispmon.com> wrote:
I'm curious what your review consisted of? To my knowledge, you never
contacted us to ask any questions even after an offlist invitation. It seems if
you are going to the trouble of creating something new, you would at least
perform an exhaustive analysis meaning you are talking to someone to ask
questions. I understand you think that perhaps the most important piece of your
business should be free or close to it, but is that really where you want to
skimp? Having owned a wisp for 8 years starting in 2003 and sold to JAB in
2010, and actually been where you think you are now, when there really were few
platforms available, I would have jumped at the chance to pay under $1 (or
maybe slightly more) per sub to have all the capability that most of the
current systems currently have. I'm curious to what other systems you have in
place that handle things like mapping, monitoring, FCC reporting, sales
tracking, prospect qualification, inventory management, ip management, work
orders, trouble tickets, scheduling, provisioning, automated suspension and
payments, reporting, and more in addition to billing? If you are using separate
systems for all of these things, then it is probably costing you more than what
you would pay for a single platform which does all of these things. I know you
say you are small and if you are doing all of these things manually or with
multiple platforms, there will be a day when that won't scale and you will
either be killing yourself trying to keep up, or spending far more than you
think to make it all work. My advice would be to do a bit more real research
before you dig into rolling your own. Talk to people who have been in your
shoes and were adverse to spending money on a good system. I tell people who
are evaluating different systems, that even if they don't choose us, choose one
of the ones out there. If you are just getting started, it is the best decision
you will make. It is much easier to get in at the beginning than to convert
later. The hardest part of being a self-starting entrepreneur is knowing when
to let go of certain things and either pay someone to do them, or pay to get
them out of the way so you can get down to growing your business. This I know
for sure, as it is the hardest part for me.
Cameron
On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Brett A Mansfield
<li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
To be clear, this will not be a standard in any way. It's just to fill a
need where I see one. Something for the little guys like myself. This will not
be a solution for those big customers since it will be limited to billing/CRM.
I'm not doing this for profit. I'm doing this on the side and the numbers
should make it break even.
Eric, I really like that comic strip, it is exactly what I was thinking
when I thought of doing this. Haha.
There is NOTHING on the market like it though. Something that works, that
is nearly free, that is for the very small guys where every single penny counts.
If nobody in the world uses this system but me, then I'll still feel it was
worth my time. My partners are volunteering their time and so am I, so our cost
will be very low to develop this.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On Dec 9, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Josh Luthman <j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:
Good luck. It certainly has been tried before...
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Brett A Mansfield
<li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
So, after a lot of review of every billing solution I can find out
there, I've come to the conclusion that there is no good billing system.
Everything out there either requires you use their merchant, has a minimum
monthly cost, or isn't really designed for the ISP. Even the stuff that has
come out most recently isn't a good fit.
For those of you who are smaller and don't want to pay a monthly
minimum, or want to use your choice of merchant, or don't want to pay a per
user charge, something new will be coming soon!
I've spoken to a few proven software engineers in the financial side of
things and we are partnering up to develop a new ISP billing software. It will
be turnkey, very easy to use, and can be deployed either by you on your
servers, or can be hosted on ours. It will only handle billing/invoicing and
CRM/ticketing. Best of all, it's practically free!
More details to come. I'll keep you posted when we have more info.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On Dec 7, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
Welcome to 2014?
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest Internet Exchange
http://www.midwest-ix.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Monday, December 7, 2015 1:32:33 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!!
Ubiquiti has a CRM?
On 12/7/2015 2:27 PM, Brett A Mansfield wrote:
It's funny you mentioned waveapps. That is what I started out with.
It was a disaster. And the fact they don't allow multiple email addresses for
recurring invoices was a major deal breaker for me.
I've since moved to UBNTs airCRM. It is an excellent setup on
paper, but is seriously lacking currently and is very erratic. I need something
solid, secure, and that I don't have to worry about all the time.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On Dec 7, 2015, at 12:08 PM, Joshaven Mailing Lists
<lis...@joshaven.com> wrote:
Plat has excellent support
In my opinion, the problems with plat are:
1) The user interface is a pain in the butt and generally
discouraging.
2) The software depends on a Windows platform and even worse
direct database connections from the client.
1) In most places when you want to alter something like customer
data you have to click on the field to edit from a table and then go to the
top to make the change in something that is like an address bar… of course you
can get used to this but Plat is full of non-user friendly quirks like this.
It reminds me of what it feels like to go back and use Windows 95 or Windows
3.1 when I am used to modern operating systems. The system feels almost like
directly editing a database except that the software does enforce logical edits
so it is not nearly as dangerous as direct database minupulation.
2) If you want to run a good highly available platform then you
will be spending a lot on software licensing with Microsoft. What is the going
rate for a MSSQL cluster now of days? Of course you can throw this on old
rusty crusty in a closet and run the free version of MSSQL but we are carriers
not hacks right? Also you are depending on ODBC database connections between
your clients and the server. Opening direct database connections to my billing
server gives me the creeps even if it is only open to a network under my
administration. I’m a fan of local host db access only except for database
peers. I would really like to see ISP billing software be web based using
standard https protocols and having no client side dependencies like odbc
configurations and client executables. Try using Plat on a tablet… I don’t
want my billing platform holding back my ability to creatively design my
installation process…
I feel like I am ragging on Plat… maybe I am a bit but I want to
underscore their support. They are truly exceptional to work with and you can
rely on their platform. Just don’t expect to enjoy using it. If you like
function over form then you may be a perfect match for Plat… I just wish they
would do some magic to address the above two complaints.
My recommendation to them is to become database & OS agnostic (at
least MySQL or MSSQL and run on Apache) and to make the client interface be
100% standards compliment browser based. I suspect if they don’t do this they
will find themselves with a EOL product in the next few years.
Right now there are really good options emerging like WaveApps.
Wave offers free billing including credit card processing at fair rates. They
don’t fit perfectly with an ISP (yet) but they are promising an API which means
that a good solutions provider can crank out an integrations solution with Wave
for front end billing. I am also super excited to see what Sonar has to offer.
I hope their offer is solid and we have a glorious solution…
At any rate I am waiting with bated breath to see where this
lands over the next few months.
Sincerely,
Joshaven Potter
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA
Google Hangouts: yourt...@gmail.com
Cell & SMS: 1-517-607-9370
supp...@joshaven.com
On Dec 7, 2015, at 9:47 AM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com>
wrote:
I can setup Platypus for billing only in less than an hour,
including setting up plans/rates/services/importing customers.
Regards,
Chuck
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Josh Luthman
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
That get's to be a little in depth and probably a loaded
question...but I know when we moved to Powercode the old team that wasn't very
good had it done in one afternoon. This was from Quickbooks.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com>
wrote:
Are you including database conversion? Items, customers,
current balances, recurring billing, credit cards, etc.
Then there’s setting up the online customer payment portal.
Especially if customers already had online accounts. And you need to hook it
into your merchant account, put your logo on it, test it, etc.
From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2015 2:24 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!!
I'm simply saying 2 days is a long time to setup a billing
system. For someone that wants it running "immediately" 2 days is a LONG time.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Philip Rankin
<wireless...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey, I'm not in this for an argument. I am just offering
to help a guy out if I can. I'll bow out of this conversation.
On Dec 5, 2015 1:37 PM, "Josh Luthman"
<j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
Two days??? Powercode takes like an hour.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Philip Rankin
<wireless...@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys, I am still a major believer in Tucows Platypus.
Brett, I could have you up and running with Plat in under 2 days as long as
you can answer speed and pricing questions as I ask them. And all I would need
is remote access to a Windows 7 computer. Let me know if you are interested.
Most of the training can be done remotely in less than a day, too.
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Simon Westlake
<simon@sonar.software> wrote:
I think it is still pretty early on.
On 12/4/2015 6:22 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote:
So I guess it does that...lol. I wasn't really
expecting it to be like that.
It's not very baked ? or am I missing something?
Regards,
Chuck
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Chuck Hogg
<ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
I meant for the admin side?
Regards,
Chuck
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz
<fai...@snappytelecom.net> wrote:
Just guessing....
Drop down on top right, select signup/create
account !
:)
Faisal Imtiaz
Snappy Internet & Telecom
7266 SW 48 Street
Miami, FL 33155
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:
supp...@snappytelecom.net
------------------------------------------------
From: "Chuck Hogg" <ch...@shelbybb.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 4:25:07 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution
asap!!!
Anyone know how to login to his demo?
Regards,
Chuck
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Simon Westlake
<simon@sonar.software> wrote:
https://github.com/spencerlambert/wisp-central-control
On 12/4/2015 10:08 AM, Jeremy wrote:
Isn't Spencer Lambert's web front-end free?
Last time I saw him at Animal Farm he was touting it and said he would help
with setup and customization at a flat rate of $100/hr. He is located in Utah,
also. If you want something cheap or free that may be an option. It would
probably be worth contacting him. I recommend Powercode.
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Craig
Schmaderer <cr...@skywaveconnect.com> wrote:
I've been looking at https://www.whmcs.com/
I have a friend that uses it for his ventrillo
voice business and it does auto billing and ticketing and is cheap. I think
you can get a hosted solution if you don't want to install it.
Craig schmaderer
Skywave Wireless, Inc.
On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:41 AM -0800, "Brett A
Mansfield" <li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
Here is what I've always said about quality,
cheap and fast.
You can only pick two. You will never have all
three.
For this I need fast and quality. Cheap is
relative in this case. I don't have a lot of customers so the $200/mo min that
visp requires is about $100-150 too much for me. I'm fine with a reasonable one
time fee, but it must be reasonable.
I used to use waveapps to just invoice and then
customers could pay using the invoice. But if they didn't get the email or lost
it, they couldn't pay their bill.
I appreciate everyone's input on this. I think
I'm going with platypus and pay someone to set it up.
I like powercode, I just cannot justify the
initial cost for my small size operation.
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
On Dec 4, 2015, at 7:47 AM, Chris Fabien
<ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
Good, cheap, and fast? You know what they say
about that.
We are reasonably happy with Powercode. Few
gripes but it has never double or triple charged our customers.
On Dec 4, 2015 1:35 AM, "Brett A Mansfield"
<li...@silverlakeinternet.com> wrote:
I'm looking for a good billing solution that is
cheap and I can have up in running immediately.
I've had far too many issues with my current
billing system.
I need something turnkey and cheap. My WISP is
a fairly small operation.
I am not willing to pay per sub, especially if
there is a minimum like visp. I don't want to buy any new hardware. I looked at
platypus, but it cannot be deployed easily or quickly. I looked at powercode,
but I don't want to buy any new hardware.
Is there anything out there that might fit my
needs? Or should I just go back to manual invoicing with quickbooks?
Thank you,
Brett A Mansfield
--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---------------------------
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software
--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---------------------------
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software
--
Philip J. Rankin
Wireless Telecommunications Services
PO Box 24
Pittsburg, KS 66762
