For such a low user count, ill go with GEPON (vsGPON) We have been sucessfully using it in MDU locations. Planet PizzaBox OLT with 2 GEPON Ports is about $1200, ONUS (CPE) about $40
Put 64 in each.. your done So far, no issues... http://www.planet.com.tw/en/product/product.php?id=45442 On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 9:48 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > Andreas, the key issue we ran into was PON port utilization. You'll need > to very carefully lay out your fiber routes. Our typical service area is > rural roads, 5-20 houses per mile. So with PON we were excited at the > prospect of being able to place a 1x8 splitter each mile and then a 1x4 at > each pedestal (up to 8 peds per mile). This seemed like a great fit and > would let us do up to 5 miles of road fed from a single 12F drop cable. The > problem is that you end up essentially allocating a PON for each mile and > never fully loading it because there's not that many houses on that mile. > Since you are starting with a 70% penetration that may help, we typically > see 50%-60% only after a couple years in a deployment. These are mostly > unserved areas we are deploying, but most customers are suck in contract > with someone. > > I think a "typical" GPON deployment will have a splitter/patch cabinet out > in the field where they aggregate several hundred strands from homes to one > spot and then install 1x32 splitters in that cabinet as needed. Then you > only need 1 fiber per splitter back to you NOC where the OLT lives. So you > still need a cabinet somewhere that is susceptible to damage, you still > need at least medium size cables coming back to the cabinet, you still need > 10s of strands back to the NOC. It just made more sense to me to make that > an active cabinet. Maybe as a WISP guy I'm more comfortable with > electronics out in a cabinet than some providers. > > Neither is a wrong answer ultimately, and the customers won't know and > will be thrilled either way. > > > On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 8:30 AM, Andreas Wiatowski < > andr...@silowireless.com> wrote: > >> Firstly, thankyou everyone for this amazing discussion. I have been >> struggling to decide which direction to choose for quite some time. I >> understand the merits of each technology, realistically we anticipate >> growing this area to 600+ subs. We have multiple villages within 3 km of >> each other that we will expand to. Why this entire build is exciting is >> that we already own 70 percent of the market. Getting these customers on >> fibre allows those that can't a much better experience as we unload the >> tower sites and reduces CAPEX on those existing assets. We will be putting >> the cabinet beside a carrier fiber cabinet where I will purchase a 1Gbps >> tls back to my core where I can expand and provision multiple tls. I can >> envision using GPon to cost effectively come back to that centralized >> cabinet and remove the power requirements and maintain a single cabinet. I >> understand active gives me cheap fast full GB to the home, but my guess is >> that consumers will be happy with a 25 Mbps experience or better. I think >> that the gpon solution is upgradeable enough... Yes, you have to change >> out cards and ONT, but that is a business decision when the time comes. >> >> I may just do active on this project as I have a lot of pricing research >> to do with the GPon vendors mentioned and their technology road map, nms >> systems and capabilities. >> >> Wondering, do some GPon deployments bring a strand from each house back >> to the centralized box into the splitter, or the splitter located near a >> group of homes and strands run to it? Or a variety of both? >> >> Thanks! >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> ______________________________ >> >> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO >> >> Silo Wireless Inc. >> >> Email andr...@silowireless.com >> >> 19 Sage Court >> >> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA) >> >> Tel +1.519.449.5656 Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free >> +1.866.727.4138 >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >> Date: 2016-02-13 7:28 AM (GMT-05:00) >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Active or GPon? >> >> Josh, >> I don't think anyone is disputing that gpon is the right solution for an >> isp with 1000s or millions of users. But Andreas asked about 110. >> >> That size of project is something I think a lot of WISP are likely to be >> working on. Our fiber network is currently several projects of that size - >> 50 to 200 homes within a few miles of a powered cabinet in a remote area. >> Active was the cheapest way for me to do that and supports 1gig to each >> home. >> >> Power for a 20u cabinet ( 288 ports in our design) will be about $30/mo >> when fully loaded. And just 2 strands back to our NOC instead of 9 with PON >> which is very significant if you happen to be leasing those strands, which >> we are in one case. >> On Feb 13, 2016 4:48 AM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: >> >>> Eric it doesn't matter. That's 1024 strands, 1024 SFPs, more power >>> usage, more cooling, in multiple bigass cabinets. >>> >>> Does. Not. Scale. >>> >>> You take that into a dense suburb and that's what you end up with. >>> >>> This is precisely why every decent ISP of size is deploying GPON and >>> not "active" fiber. The costs to get up _and_ maintain active is >>> several magnitudes higher. Let's say you were comcast and you were >>> rolling this out to your 22 million users on active. That's 22 million >>> SFPs, 22 million ports, an asston of strands, huge cabinets, large >>> batteries that have to get changed out every few years, HVAC, etc. >>> Even on a relatively common GPON deployment (32 way), you're talking >>> about a 32x reduction in port count, sfps, strands to pops, etc. from >>> 22million ports to 687k. That's nothing to sneeze at. >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > That's assuming all 1024 active ports are in one central location and >>> not >>> > distributed around, like 96 ports in one place, accomplished with a >>> pair of >>> > 48-port 1u switches (fed on a 10Gbps ring) accompanied by a beefy UPS, >>> in a >>> > weatherproof ventilated 16U cabinet. >>> > >>> > Multiply by location of several network nodes each with anywhere from >>> 1 to 6 >>> > 1U switches. >>> > >>> > On Feb 12, 2016 7:47 PM, "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote: >>> >> >>> >> If you're doing a super small project, no more than a hundred or two >>> >> hundred customers in an area, then it can make sense. There comes to >>> >> be a point where the port cost of active does NOT scale. >>> >> >>> >> 1024 subs on GPON with a modest 32 way split is done with 32 GPON >>> >> SFPs, 32 ports, 32 way split per GPON SFP. 2 line cards in a 2U >>> >> chassis. >>> >> >>> >> On active, that's 1024 active ports and SFPs. That's insane. >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 9:44 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> > I am also a proponent of active. Especially for small projects like >>> >> > this. >>> >> > Very low cost of entry. >>> >> > >>> >> > We looked at gpon including Alphion and ended up with still needing >>> all >>> >> > the >>> >> > strands home run to the cabinet to fully load up each PON or we >>> ended up >>> >> > with a bunch of money wasted on PONs that would never be fully >>> utilized >>> >> > if >>> >> > we did splitting closer to the customer. >>> >> > >>> >> > On Feb 12, 2016 10:30 PM, "Andreas Wiatowski" < >>> andr...@silowireless.com> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> So, I understand the benefits of GPon ... What brand would you >>> >> >> consider? >>> >> >> ... I have been looking at Alphion. Huawei seems like a good >>> option... >>> >> >> But >>> >> >> much more expensive. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Cheers, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> ______________________________ >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Silo Wireless Inc. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Email andr...@silowireless.com >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 19 Sage Court >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA) >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Tel +1.519.449.5656 Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll Free >>> >> >> +1.866.727.4138 >>> >> >> >>> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >>> >> >> From: Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>> >> >> Date: 2016-02-12 10:21 PM (GMT-05:00) >>> >> >> To: af@afmug.com >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Active or GPon? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> You realize the transport core to the gpon OLT chassis is still >>> active >>> >> >> fiber in many designs, right? I also am unsure if you are aware of >>> the >>> >> >> upgrade process to NG-PON2 - you can run it on the same fiber >>> strand as >>> >> >> your >>> >> >> existing PON split. Add the new card into the chassis and move the >>> >> >> split >>> >> >> over to the new SFP. Upgrade the customers at your leisure. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Feb 12, 2016 9:13 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Key part there is, is going to be... is it available or shipping >>> now? >>> >> >>> If somebody wants to start a build now, the choice is between >>> GPON or >>> >> >>> active. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Having an active fiber path, even with just one strand (for BiDi >>> >> >>> optics) >>> >> >>> gives you a nearly infinite lifespan of the installed light path >>> and >>> >> >>> cable >>> >> >>> plant, if things are maintained correctly. With a dedicated light >>> path >>> >> >>> from >>> >> >>> each powered network node to the customer you could upgrade to >>> >> >>> active-E 10, >>> >> >>> then 40, then 100Gbps someday. Yes we will see customers with >>> 10GbE >>> >> >>> optics >>> >> >>> in the next ten years. And maybe in 20 or 30 years from now it'll >>> be >>> >> >>> cheap >>> >> >>> and easy to connect each customer with an SFP-sized coherent QPSK >>> >> >>> 100GbE >>> >> >>> optic at each end. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Josh Reynolds < >>> j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>> >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> 10-40Gbps on NG-PON2 is going to be the real deal, and betting >>> >> >>>> against >>> >> >>>> it vs active ethernet at scale for residential service is just... >>> >> >>>> dumb, to be honest (IMO). >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> The size of your backbone ends up being monstrous with active, as >>> >> >>>> well >>> >> >>>> as having to keep the cabinets powered, UPS+batteries, >>> enclosurers >>> >> >>>> maintained, etc. PON is simply so much cheaper are scale, and in >>> >> >>>> residential every dollar counts. >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Eric Kuhnke < >>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >>> >> >>>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> > I did forget to mention that I'm firmly on the side of activeE >>> >> >>>> > being >>> >> >>>> > the >>> >> >>>> > best choice, for one big reason... You can use all kinds of >>> >> >>>> > SFP-based >>> >> >>>> > equipment (24/48-port 1U switches) or chassis based switches >>> and >>> >> >>>> > routers >>> >> >>>> > with 24/48-port blades from a huge variety of manufacturers. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > There's a lot of 48-port SFP stuff out there on the >>> >> >>>> > grey/refurb/used >>> >> >>>> > market >>> >> >>>> > that came out of datacenters, and no longer meets the bandwidth >>> >> >>>> > needs >>> >> >>>> > for >>> >> >>>> > people who are doing 10GbE (or 2x10GbE) to each bare metal >>> >> >>>> > hypervisor. >>> >> >>>> > But >>> >> >>>> > that same equipment is perfect for activeE. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > Same idea as a Cisco 3750G-48 is no longer enough bandwidth for >>> >> >>>> > 1000BaseT to >>> >> >>>> > the server in colo environments, but is perfect for MDU use. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > GPON/EPON/whateverPON is all a mess of manufacturer proprietary >>> >> >>>> > CPEs >>> >> >>>> > and >>> >> >>>> > non-interoperable stuff. Whereas with activeE and a real >>> ethernet >>> >> >>>> > port >>> >> >>>> > for >>> >> >>>> > each customer you can use $30 media converters as your demarc. >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > On Fri, Feb 12, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Andreas Wiatowski >>> >> >>>> > <andr...@silowireless.com> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Hi all, >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Looking to do my first ftth for about 110 homes. >>> >> >>>> >> If I do active, what switch platform would you use for sfp in >>> >> >>>> >> cabinet and >>> >> >>>> >> in home router/cabinet. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> If GPon, what vendor would you choose that is cost >>> >> >>>> >> effective/reliable >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> I understand the full limitations of GPon.. But I feel it is >>> an >>> >> >>>> >> attractive >>> >> >>>> >> proposition compared to active... And the few systems I have >>> seen >>> >> >>>> >> have a >>> >> >>>> >> road map to faster olt access. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Cheers, >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> ______________________________ >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Andreas Wiatowski | CEO >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Silo Wireless Inc. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Email andr...@silowireless.com >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> 19 Sage Court >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Brantford, Ontario N3R 7T4 (CANADA) >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Tel +1.519.449.5656 Extension-600|Fax +1.519.449.5536 |Toll >>> Free >>> >> >>>> >> +1.866.727.4138 >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> > >>> >> >
