Brian puts it quite well (as always). As a tower climber I have been around hams for many years. Many WISPs I know were started by HAMS. The spirit of making an network goes along with much of the HAM philosophy.
It’s like anything. I know “gun guys” who are pompous and arrogant. I know “Toy collectors” who are pompous and arrogant. They can be your best customer and your most annoying at the same time. One of the biggest advantage a WISP can gain from a HAM or a club is they can help you get on towers you might not be able to. I have seen many times, just because the introduction came from a HAM, the city was now willing to work with someone when they weren’t before. Plus, many of them have towers as well. More and more linked systems are needing Internet so they are another client to sell to. Even if that selling is a trade. What we have done in the past is put a mikrotik in as their router and simply graph the connection for a few days. Then you can see how much bandwidth they actually use and actually show them. When we put the first DMR repeater online we were told it needed a 3x1 connection. Even on busy nights it barely breaks a 512k sweat. Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net --- http://www.mtin.net Owner/CEO xISP Solutions- Consulting – Data Centers - Bandwidth http://www.midwest-ix.com COO/Chairman > On Feb 19, 2016, at 2:53 PM, Brian Webster <i...@wirelessmapping.com> wrote: > > Ok this is one of the flavors of VOIP linked voice repeater systems. > > A couple of things to understand about hams, they love to play with > technology, many like to have the latest and biggest for bragging rights, not > much unlike other hobbies (cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, etc.) > Because they can buy stuff like this many times they think they should build > one and have it. These Wires systems are in the minority of linked networks, > some guys just want to "HAVE" th3eir own conference server not really > understanding the network and concepts. Reality is if they want to talk with > other people they themselves will connect to the most popular conference > servers to have someone to talk to. Too many conference servers and there is > excess capacity. Ham put up their own repeaters like this in areas where > there is already a number of existing repeaters that don't get much use, then > they beg people to come talk with them on "their" repeater. It's an ego > thing. Reality is if their repeaters or base stations have enough bandwidth > to connect to a conference server that already exists then they have what > they need. That is not 20 meg, 1 meg or less will do. As I mentioned before, > conference servers belong in data centers, not tower sites for some guys > house. They need good symmetric bandwidth with redundant paths and providers. > > Now why would you support these clubs? The amateur radio groups provide a lot > of public service and disaster communications capacity in times of need. They > do this on their own money and time. Local communities benefit a great deal. > They have an tight associating with the national weather service and the > SkyWarn storm spotter system. National Weather Service Office have their own > amateur radio equipment in place and they will talk directly to storm spotter > in the field during sever weather. All of their communications is > noncommercial. They have a lot of spectrum available and the ability to do > all kinds of things technically. It's not just Morse Code and shortwave > radio. They have their own satellites, broadcast TV, digital packet radio > networks and a nationwide vehicle tracking system (Google Amateur Radio > APRS). They support many non-governmental agencies, Red Cross, Salvation > Army, APCO and others. They have official memorandums of understanding in > place that spell out their roles and support. They support bringing > technology in to the classroom offering summer teaching courses for teachers > who wish to use real technology to teach students about math, geography and > other subjects. They have a major role in supporting the boy and girl scout > programs and youth. The list goes on and on. They also have many members who > have done a great deal of software and technology development. > > Now to Ken's point about them being old and grey, arrogant and pompous, there > certainly are a lot of people like that, every group has them. It's part of > the demographics. This is not a fair and complete statement though, truth is > there are now more amateur radio licensees than ever. Last year was one of > the biggest increases. Many younger people who have an interest in technology > are joining the amateur radio ranks and putting new life in to the > hobby/service. See one article below that was published very recently: > > https://www.yahoo.com/tech/why-modern-makers-are-bringing-1363811879927862.html > > <https://www.yahoo.com/tech/why-modern-makers-are-bringing-1363811879927862.html> > Why Modern Makers Are Bringing Back Ham Radio > > > More than a hundred years ago, a few intrepid amateurs began experimenting > with a new means of communications known then as “wireless.” These > protohackers — soon to be known as hams — for etymologically obscure reasons > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_ham_radio> — began building their > own electronics gear, hoping to use it to communicate with others. By the > early 1920s, amateur radio operators were talking with and even transmitting > images to complete strangers on the other side of the world. > By the 1980s, ham radio was in decline. But the spirit of those early > tinkerers survived: They were the first makers, who — like the makers of > today — built technological gizmos for themselves that they just couldn’t buy. > And now, coincident with the rise of the modern maker movement, that decline > has reversed. New ham licenses are on the increase, with 35,000 new ones > issued just last year. According to FCC records, there are now roughly > 800,000 ham radio operators in the United States — more than ever before. And > this latest generation of enthusiasts is doing things with ham radio that > their forebears could never have imagined. > DIY: Old and new > > Some of today’s hams are in it for the original reason: to talk to people > around the world via shortwave radio. But many get involved so they can > incorporate wireless capabilities into their projects. > One reason is that an FCC license allows you to build and legally operate > your own high-powered wireless equipment. Ham radio operators are allowed to > design, build, test, and operate wireless projects across a vast range of > frequencies. They are able to, among other things, hack together Wi-Fi > routers that can operate over longer distances and use more power than > standard, commercial Wi-Fi. > Adding amateur radio technology to their projects opens up whole new vistas > for today’s DIYers. “It blows me away what can be done, and for cheap,” says > maker-blogger Rich Holoch <https://ky6r.wordpress.com/page/2/>, who > experiments with microcontrollers and projects based on Arduino > <https://www.arduino.cc/> and Raspberry Pi <https://www.raspberrypi.org/> > devices. “It opens up the whole matrix of what you can do.” > “It’s amazing all the things that are out there that you can do with ham > radio,” concurs Christine Axsmith, president of HacDC Radio Club > <http://www.hacdc.org/>, part of HacDC, a Washington, D.C.-area maker group. > “But with Raspberry Pi, it just blew the lid off.” HacDCers are working on > projects that include microwave networking and remotely controlled 3D > printing — all using wireless radio technology. > Dennis Kidder came to that ham-maker nexus from the other direction. A > longtime ham radio operator, he was unprepared for what he found when he went > to his first maker faire in San Mateo a few years ago. > “We were overwhelmed with the DIY electronics and the robotics,” he says. He > was so energized by the experience that he helped write (with Jack Purdum) a > book on the subject, Arduino Projects for Amateur Radio > <http://www.amazon.com/Arduino-Projects-Amateur-Radio-Purdum-ebook/dp/B00O2A7I5O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454621169&sr=8-1&keywords=dennis+kidder>. > Putting ham radio to good use > > One thing a lot of these maker-hams talk about is the potential use of their > hobby for public service. “Our team is working on a project to turn any > cellphone into a shortwave radio,” Axsmith says, explaining that once the > work is done, it could be used to help provide communications in developing > areas. > Other makers are contributing their skills to the American Radio Relay League > <http://www.arrl.org/>’s (ARRL) National Parks on the Air event, in which ham > radio operators try to raise awareness about national parks and the work done > by the National Park Service. Others are developing new emergency > communications networks as backups for when cell service disappears. > Some maker spaces now offer ham radio activities. A few, like HacDC, have > their own radio shacks and experimental equipment and offer ham radio license > classes. > Meanwhile, ARRL is ramping up its efforts to spread the word about ham radio > in the maker community. “We support a lot of ham radio operators who go to > maker faires,” says Bob Inderbitzen, ARRL’s sales and marketing manager. > The combination of ham radio and the maker movement could even help the > former shed its amateur status. Inderbitzen says familiarity with both could > be a real plus when it comes to getting hired as an engineer. Hands-on > experience with radio frequency engineering is extremely valuable these days > but also hard to find. He says he’s seeing “a significant boost in employment > opportunities” for hams who know how to make stuff. > Read More > So, just as the hams of a hundred years ago eventually provided the > foundations for the professional radio business, the maker-hams (ham-makers?) > of today could find their personal passions paying off too. > Wayne Rash is senior columnist for eWEEK and can be reached at wa...@rash.org > <mailto:wa...@rash.org>. > > > Thank You, > Brian Webster > www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com/> > www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.broadband-mapping.com/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On > Behalf Of Jerry Head > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 8:21 AM > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] HAMSs and Internet > > Hmm he sent a few pictures, does this look like a conference server? > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/lm7yqdblb6mri0l/Screenshot%202016-02-19%2007.16.28.png?dl=0 > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/lm7yqdblb6mri0l/Screenshot%202016-02-19%2007.16.28.png?dl=0> > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2u283gy05fgt9i/Screenshot%202016-02-19%2007.18.23.png?dl=0 > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2u283gy05fgt9i/Screenshot%202016-02-19%2007.18.23.png?dl=0> > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/51jov0xxmybov37/Screenshot%202016-02-19%2007.19.32.png?dl=0 > > <https://www.dropbox.com/s/51jov0xxmybov37/Screenshot%202016-02-19%2007.19.32.png?dl=0> > > I have not applied the Google to research that device in the third > picture...yet. > > > On 2/19/2016 12:59 AM, Brian Webster wrote: > > Unless they are trying to host a voice repeater conference server they do > > not need anywhere near that kind of bandwidth. A conference server would > > host multiple connects all at the same time, if they needed 500k per > > connection that would add up. I would not let them host a conference server > > on your wireless network, that stuff is better placed in big data centers. > > > > I am an amateur radio operator and have data and voice networks I maintain > > for the clubs locally. Honestly 1 to 3 meg is more than enough for what > > they will need. Anything more than that and they will likely be doing > > things that they should be paying for on your network. They may be trying > > to do some live video stuff but you don't need to shoulder that burden, > > they can do live TV broadcasts on spectrum they have available, not as easy > > to do as IP cams and Ethernet but they can do it. > > > > If you have the tower space you might consider offering them places to put > > their own links if all they need is bandwidth between sites. There are > > amateur radio spectrum allocations in the 3.3 GHz band as well as 5.9 GHz, > > and I am pretty sure they can load international firmware and run their own > > links on MicroTik or Ubiquiti radios. This would keep the traffic off your > > network and possibly discourage them from putting up links legally licensed > > in the bands you are using for your business. Technically they have > > licensed rights and could knock you off the air. Best not to start that > > war, they can operate in the 900, 2.4 and 5 GHz bands legally at much > > higher power. If you can get them off on to the spectrum that does not > > overlap the unlicensed bands everyone wins. They also have their own IPv4 > > space available (ampr.org <http://ampr.org/>). > > > > Feel free to hit me up off list and/or have them contact me if you need to. > > I will happily try to explain how they can create win-win for everyone. > > > > Here is a link to a frequency chart that shows amateur radio licensed > > allocations. Remember they are considered licensed incumbents and you > > cannot interfere with their operations. > > http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Hambands_color.pdf > > <http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Regulatory/Band%20Chart/Hambands_color.pdf> > > > > > > Thank You, > > Brian Webster > > www.wirelessmapping.com <http://www.wirelessmapping.com/> > > www.Broadband-Mapping.com <http://www.broadband-mapping.com/> > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On > > Behalf Of Jerry Head > > Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 9:05 AM > > To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> > > Subject: [AFMUG] HAMSs and Internet > > > > I think a few of the list members out there are HAMs so I need some advice > > please. > > I support our local HAM group and have allowed them to place repeaters on > > two of my towers at no charge to their group. Now one of their members has > > asked for Internet service at one of the sites for HAM use. I have heard > > something about HAMs using the Internet to "talk" so I guess this is not > > unusual. > > For me the kicker is that he is asking for 20x20Mbps service...I certainly > > have the capacity but that just seems excessive. > > Opinions anyone? > >
