>From what I've seen on the internet, there's probably a sub-reddit for that.
On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 9:02 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > Well, that's the gist of it, but it would be kind of weird to say it that > way. It might could be that maybe sometimes after hours I might get > undressed and cover myself in hair gel put on an apron and some hair rods > and curl up in the pedicure chair eating hard candies and telling myself how > pretty I am, but I'm pretty sure deep down inside that's what everybody > wants to do, only I could actually have a chance to live that dream. > > On Feb 23, 2016 8:57 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >> OK, the main take-away seems that have wanted to be a hairdresser since >> you were five... >> >> From: That One Guy /sarcasm >> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 7:42 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Ot buying a salon >> >> >> That was the 3-5 year plan, her build the clientele, which is going >> swimmingly, and we learn the business, which I have been, but neither >> component are at the point of venturing out new, that's the then. >> >> And yes, women are very much married to their beautician, more so than >> their husbands. >> >> I guess I wasn't clear, the current daughter owner doesn't want to exit, >> even if there is a full purchase, other than losing her baby, as it were, >> she very much wants to stay on, and she has a client base, I suspect many >> off the books, and the other full time chair wants to stay as well. I know >> she has a lot of off the books clients. The off the books would be >> addressed, that's also a lawyer liability discussion regarding the potential >> skeletons. As bad as that does sound, I can't go into the details due to >> time (it would be a book) it's a manageable issue, because I knew about it >> and when I brought up the issue, there was no deception, it was kind of like >> office pilfering, only it was accounted for by both on personal tax returns >> so assuming the lawyer reviews and signs off on it as not being a liability >> then it's a quiet benefit if the lawyer red flags it, it's a show stopper. >> But there is a decent amount of clientele is the point. >> >> The daughter owner to clarify, has been in the industry for over twenty >> years, six of her people have moved on to start their own salons under >> agreeable circumstances, I'm good friends with one of them, and have >> verified the reputation hit is not irreparable if the internal issues >> resolved. Benefit of small town living. >> >> A major component of the breakdown is that a mom and daughter went into >> business without a very clear and detailed business arrangement. The mother >> funded, the daughter worked, and nobody talked to one another. I've been >> doing work for the mother for ten years, so I'm more privy to the finer >> details of the situation than most potential "investors" would be. I've also >> been thinking about and looking at various aspects of the salon industry >> since I was 5 and accompanied my mom at night to clean on regularly at >> night, they always had a dish of hard candies, so obviously they're a >> magical place. That and the fact it's a loose cash industry that has little >> legitimate value as a neccesary service but women would sooner skip a rent >> payment than miss a nail appointment, it's crack for the housewife. >> About 8 years ahoy when I saw a purse for 42 bucks that I know cost ten in >> the purse bin that they can't keep full at my friends salon, I realised >> there is potential. I actually had looked into ad driven WiFi hotspots >> attached to vending machines that dispensed small retail electronics as a >> neat idea to approach salons with until I priced industrial vending >> machines. >> >> I don't see salon ownership outside of franchising as a get rich quick or >> at all thing, but I do see it as a good residual income to adjunct another >> income. This particular scenario actually is ideal because the particular >> arrangement allows me to maintain my current job since I can't legally do >> much of anything in the salon beyond running a broom. It also solves a long >> term conundrum I've had regarding alternatives to my current job in that I >> can go out on my own as a simpleminded it contractor and match my current >> income and pay rent, but not insure my family, the location and available >> space within is a good brick and mortar, and a lot of the salon client base >> at this particular salon is my target market, the small to tiny business and >> wives of business owners who wouldn't violate my current non enforceable no >> compete. Plus I've been building my role into something that can be >> outsourced for the last three years, leaving the opportunity to have cake >> and eat cake til it goes stale and molds. >> >> I am rambling about all this because of the request for advice from >> experience, like I said, not to be argumentative, but to hear why my grand >> ideas are destined for failure, that's not sarcasm, it's a much less >> expensive way to find out than just doing it the hard way and ending up >> living under a bridge in my minivan feeding my family whatever scraps I can >> muster from the dumpster behind McDonalds. >> >> On Feb 23, 2016 7:49 PM, "Lewis Bergman" <lewis.berg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> You should primarily look for tax returns. They represent the minimum a >>> person is willing to represent as their income. Assets in a business like >>> that seen pretty few and lie value. Probably easy to get an idea of what >>> used equipment would cost. >>> >>> From your description it sounds like they have a bad reputation and I >>> think I would rather start with nothing and work to go above zero than start >>> will below zero and try to claw back to it. >>> >>> I may be wrong but my wife is attached to her hair dresser; aren't all >>> woman? Why not try to recruit some good hairdressers and start your own? >>> >>> I imagine the half life of a customer in that business is about three >>> weeks. I would bet you'll lose most of them during the negotiations. Lastly, >>> never think the person running a successful business doesn't earn the margin >>> they make. Unless you have the pockets to find this I would suggest your >>> wife find a successful salon to work in, build her clientele diligently, >>> then if she still wants to own one, start her own when she has the customer >>> cash flow to make the jump. >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016, 6:57 PM That One Guy /sarcasm >>> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Salons are service industry with subcontractorish environments, so it's >>>> not all that different than wisp, except it's all broads. >>>> The salon my woman works at is failing, poor management decisions, >>>> partners who are family (mother funded, daughter managed) mother owns 51 >>>> percent daughter 49. At one point it was an established and successful >>>> business, but feelings got hurt, partners fighting, a staff coup that took >>>> a >>>> substantial amount of clientelle, facilities not maintained. No clear >>>> company structure as far as owners getting paid. A 7 thousand dollar and 13 >>>> thousand dollar note owed to the mother partner, etc. Management software >>>> client capture went from over 800 clients to under 200 captures over a one >>>> year span indicating to me the "staff" quit putting a lot of services on >>>> the >>>> books and was pocketing the cash. It was an llc but they quit paying it and >>>> transferred it into what they refer to as a partnership with the 51 49 >>>> thing, I have not seen that documentation >>>> >>>> I assume a lot of this could be correlated to many of your purchases of >>>> family run wisps. >>>> >>>> This has the potential to be turned around, the salon had a good >>>> reputation, and volume at one point, and its the only full service one in >>>> the town, so it's not completely failed. There also is room to incorporate >>>> some other sources of revenue into the mix. >>>> >>>> The 51 percent partner wants out, they would like to simply recoup the >>>> majority of their outstanding debt and was their hands of the matter. >>>> Initially this was offered to us for 7k but that left an outstanding >>>> liability of 13 on the business to the same person, and that note is secure >>>> via a mortgage extension. That didn't sound like a good risk so we told >>>> them >>>> to get a better proposal consisting of buying out that half of the >>>> partnership as well as a second proposal for buying out the entire >>>> partnership. The "assets" including minimal revenue of a single occupied >>>> station for a year was informally estimated at around 34k. >>>> >>>> The daughter partner who is the primary "contractor" had a 45k recorded >>>> revenue. I don't recall the revenue from the other occupied chair of the 5 >>>> chairs and the retail had substantially dropped, I suspect due to it >>>> becoming free when nobody was looking. >>>> >>>> Recovery could take place, as they offer the full spa set of services, >>>> however they currently are limited in their massage and facials by >>>> contractors who don't show up. This can be resolved fairly quickly for the >>>> massage therapist by recruiting one I'm aware of who is looking for a new >>>> place to operate because her stand alone office did not generate the >>>> revenue >>>> to justify the expense and overhead. Also my it job has allowed me to build >>>> good personal relationships with a lot of beneficial businesses, primarily >>>> the beauty school for recruiting fresh "contractors" to fill the empty >>>> chairs, they just don't come with clients. >>>> >>>> This is a more rushed scenario than I would prefer, this was a 3-5 year >>>> plan, but circumstances presented. Our lust for business ownership stands >>>> to >>>> cloud judgement, and that in itself is enough to walk away. >>>> >>>> We have a meeting later this week for presentation of the proposals. >>>> What I don't know is what documentation in particular I should request. I >>>> can ask for "financials" but I don't know what that actually means, or what >>>> further information to ask for. >>>> >>>> I'm reaching out here because you guys are my favorite cheap dates, and >>>> a lot of you have experiences more valuable than any advice I could pay an >>>> attorney for. After this next meeting is when our expenses start, so we >>>> need >>>> to be able to make a personal judgement at that point if it's a good enough >>>> opportunity to go to a lawyer and start paying for the non refundable >>>> advice. It's also when we make the decision of how foolish we want to look >>>> in front of our bankers. I like my banker though, and he might be in poor >>>> spirits and need a good laugh. >>>> >>>> Smart me knows this is not the right time to take risks like this when I >>>> only have 7 short years til my boy needs a college education and if this >>>> goes south, mom and dads financial support will be out. But the potential >>>> makes it worth looking at, like watching a train wreck. There are also some >>>> other long term prospects this makes possible so that benefit alone makes >>>> it >>>> well worth an investigation. >>>> >>>> I really would appreciate some sage advice from experience in small >>>> business. >>>> >>>> >>>> From what I have seen, there is no formal business structure, in other >>>> words I don't see
