But that B in Shannon's Theorem keeps getting big. That 10Gbps radio uses 2Ghz channels. That results in a lot of C
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: > There are bumper stickers “Obey Gravity ... It’s the Law”. > Maybe you need to sell Shannon’s Law bumper stickers. > Ooops, it’s Shannon’s THEOREM. > So you can be a Shannon denier. > > > *From:* Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> > *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2016 9:36 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] B11 > > When they figure a way around this let me know: > > C=B Log2 ((1+S/N) > > (Shannon/Hartley) > > *From:* Kurt Fankhauser <lists.wavel...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 10, 2016 8:24 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] B11 > > wow 10Gbps over wireless? Give it a couple years and there will be an > 80ghz Airfiber doing these speeds.... I can't wait. > > On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 3:10 PM, John Blake <jbl...@n1networks.com> wrote: > >> All in for a Huawei RTN-380 including brackets, antennas, software, >> licensing, cables, accessories, etc. comes out between about $22k-30k per >> link depending on which options you pick. >> >> Also, if 4Gbps isn't good enough, there is the RTN-380H that does 10G >> wireless. The specs on this are insane. >> >> - 10Gbps throughput >> - 2000 Mhz channel spacing, 128QAM modulation >> - SFP+ interfaces >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:00 AM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm talking 706 FT, give or take 6 inches >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Depends on your distance, if you're going 1 km vs. 2.5 to 4 km.... >>>> >>>> It is definitely a VERY narrow beam width. Particularly with 60cm >>>> antennas. I wouldn't do it on anything that sways. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 6:07 AM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> How stable of a structure do you need for 70/80Ghz? Self standing rohn >>>>> 45 @ 55 ft too much? It's bracketed at 25ft. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 7:02 AM, Kurt Fankhauser < >>>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What price range is a Huawei link in? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 2:47 AM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> You cannot directly compare 11 to 80 GHz. Totally different market. >>>>>>> I can't do beyond 2.5 km at real five to six nines uptime with 80 GHz >>>>>>> (even >>>>>>> with +18 Tx power radios). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can do 60 km with 11 if the link will tolerate some ACM. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Aug 9, 2016 9:31 PM, "John Blake" <jbl...@n1networks.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's obviously pricier than the B11, but if you want true >>>>>>>> symmetrical and a ton of throughput, you could look at the Huawei >>>>>>>> RTN-380 >>>>>>>> radios. These will do 4Gbps (2Gbps symmetrical) at full licensing, or >>>>>>>> there are 1, 2, 3Gbps licensing options. They use 71-76 GHz and 81-86 >>>>>>>> GHz >>>>>>>> and so are super easy and cheap to get (lightly) licensed. These are >>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>> popular with carriers outside the US, but not so much in the US >>>>>>>> because of >>>>>>>> all the Huawei/Ciscolobby disputes, but that has largely been resolved >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> they have been getting traction here. Let me know if you want more >>>>>>>> info, >>>>>>>> we are Huawei VAR. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:54 PM, <mbl...@bamicrowave.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gino, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That seems to be the only configuration that meets the >>>>>>>>> requirement. The way I see it, in a traditional FDD system you would >>>>>>>>> license an XPIC pair of frequencies, say 11075 H/V at point A and >>>>>>>>> 11565 H/V >>>>>>>>> at point B. Assuming an 820 running 256QAM you might get 500mbps per >>>>>>>>> polarity per direction, for a two-way aggregate of 2gpbs. You would >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> licensed 160MHz at each end of the system, for a system efficiency of >>>>>>>>> 2gbps/320MHz = 6 b/s/hz. >>>>>>>>> If you operate a B11 on the same pair of frequencies, you have to >>>>>>>>> use their FD mode which a typical PCN claims will deliver 736mbps. It >>>>>>>>> would seem that this can be viewed as a two-way aggregate rate, >>>>>>>>> because the >>>>>>>>> radios still take turns transmitting as in a true TDMA system. So, >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> system efficiency here is 736mbps/320MHz = 2.3 b/s/hz -- below the >>>>>>>>> requirement of 3 b/s/hz. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you switch the B11 to the normal TDMA mode you will need to >>>>>>>>> transmit on the same frequency from each end of the link. So, in >>>>>>>>> addition >>>>>>>>> to licensing 11075 H and V transmitting from point A, you also need to >>>>>>>>> license 11075 H and V transmitting from point B, which adds another >>>>>>>>> 160MHz >>>>>>>>> at each end. The PCNs show this configuration giving 1.47gbps (again >>>>>>>>> assumed to be an aggregate figure due to the TDMA mode). This is an >>>>>>>>> efficiency of 1.47gbps/640MHz = 2.3 b/s/hz again. However, because >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> have licensed two frequency pairs, each site can also transmit and >>>>>>>>> receive >>>>>>>>> on the unused 11565 H and V frequencies. If you do this then you get >>>>>>>>> 2*1.47gbps/640MHz = 4.6 b/s/hz. This seems to be the only valid >>>>>>>>> configuration, but does this take two radios at each end, or just one? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mike Black >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Black & Associates >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 727-773-9016 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------- Original Message >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------- >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] B11 >>>>>>>>> From: "Gino Villarini" <ginovi...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> Date: Wed, August 3, 2016 3:38 pm >>>>>>>>> To: "Animal Farm" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > but the radio tx in both channels in the both polarites in both >>>>>>>>> ends ... >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 1:31 PM, Eric Kuhnke < >>>>>>>>> eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >> No, it is just as spectrally efficient as any 256QAM radio... >>>>>>>>> One 80 MHz >>>>>>>>> >> "low" channel in both polarities and one 80 MHz "high" channel >>>>>>>>> in both >>>>>>>>> >> polarities, as a typical FDD band plan such as you would use >>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>> >> configuration with 2 dishes, 2 orthomode transducers and 4 >>>>>>>>> radio heads >>>>>>>>> >> (each radio operating in a single polarity) in a 2+0 >>>>>>>>> configuration. >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> You're arriving at the figure of 320 MHz by counting everything >>>>>>>>> twice. >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:28 AM, <mbl...@bamicrowave.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >>> We haven't had the pleasure of coordinating a B11 link yet, >>>>>>>>> but they >>>>>>>>> >>> certainly seem to be popular based upon the number of PCNs we >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> >>> seeing. So, a dumb question hopefully based upon a simple >>>>>>>>> misunderstanding >>>>>>>>> >>> of the numbers: I don't see how this meets the FCC minimum >>>>>>>>> efficiency >>>>>>>>> >>> standards for wide channels at 11GHz: >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> 80MHz channels x H and V = 160MHz, but with high/low pairing >>>>>>>>> you double >>>>>>>>> >>> this? to 320MHz occupied per end? So, to meet the 3 b/s/hz >>>>>>>>> requirement at >>>>>>>>> >>> 11GHz your symmetrical throughput would need to be >= 960mbps. >>>>>>>>> What am I >>>>>>>>> >>> missing? >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> Mike Black >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> Black & Associates >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> 727-773-9016 >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> ---------------------------- Original Message >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------- >>>>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] B11 >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Jaime Fink" <ja...@mimosa.co> >>>>>>>>> >>> Date: Tue, August 2, 2016 4:49 pm >>>>>>>>> >>> To: "SmarterBroadband" <li...@smarterbroadband.com> >>>>>>>>> >>> "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> -------------- >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> > The PHY is 1733 Mbps aggregate, so depending on the chosen >>>>>>>>> window >>>>>>>>> >>> sizes, the top real world TCP speeds we’ve seen are between >>>>>>>>> 1200-1300 Mbps >>>>>>>>> >>> aggregate (75/25 or 50/50 mode), or 600-650 Mbps symmetric >>>>>>>>> (50/50). >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> > For 11 GHz this assumes high/low pairing of 80 MHz and both >>>>>>>>> >>> polarizations coordinated. >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> > Jaime Fink • Mimosa<http://www.mimosa.co> • CPO & Co-Founder >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> > On August 2, 2016 at 1:34:31 PM, SmarterBroadband ( >>>>>>>>> >>> li...@smarterbroadband.com<mailto:li...@smarterbroadband.com>) >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>> > Can the B11 do 1Gbps Symmetrical? >>>>>>>>> >>> > If not what is best Symmetrical? >>>>>>>>> >>> > Thanks >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > >
