Experian is an interesting point. They were hacked because of a flaw in
Apache Struts. So, no matter where it's hosted, the flaw exists and can
be exploited. If you host it locally, you can't patch the software any
differently, you're reliant on the vendor. So the only difference is, do
you have better security in place than somebody else? Maybe. My
experience in dealing with people in general has been that they do not.
I am not really trying to convince anyone of anything, it is not a right
and wrong answer. You want things locally, there are solutions. But I
think a lot of these examples aren't really that valid in most cases.
If you can backup your data the same, then it makes no difference from a
backup perspective.
If you can't keep using the software without a licensing server being
available, then it makes no difference, unless your intention is to try
to reverse engineer the software and remove the licensing requirement.
If you are not implementing stronger security than the company who would
otherwise be hosting it for you, then you are worse off than you would be.
If you want it locally because you are going to secure the hell out of
it, back it up better than the vendor, and you can keep using it if they
go out of business, then it's a good decision for you.
I am really not pushing people to use cloud hosted stuff if they don't
want to though. Anyone's desire to host locally is perfectly valid.
Sonar is just the totally wrong product to look at if that's what you
want. If you need to hammer in a nail, there's a hammer store down the
street, don't come buy one of my wrenches and then yell at me because it
sucks for hitting nails.
On 10/18/2017 9:53 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
Is no one going to bring up Experian and the cloud hosting all of your
data? That's a concern.
If the "one" cloud hosting server has problems, your entire billing
and operational system goes down.
Maybe it's simply the piece of mind that everything I have is within
arms reach.
Like I said before, it all comes down to what people are actually
buying. No one needs a Ferrari when a Toyota well outlasts them in
every objective manner and yet people are buying them.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:%28937%29%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:%28937%29%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 10:43 AM, James Howard <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Am I missing something here? What difference does it make if the
software is cloud hosted or locally hosted if the license model is
subscription either way? Mike might have been able to keep
running it if he had a local copy but he wouldn’t have owned the
license to do it legally.
*From:*Af [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Matt Hoppes
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 18, 2017 9:13 AM
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
That's my point Josh. Wisp mon was cloudy only, so when the
acquisition occurred Mike has no choice but to go to sonar. With a
local he hosted application he could choose to run the old Wispmon
software until he decides he wants to upgrade to something.
On Oct 18, 2017, at 09:22, Mike Hammett <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
IIRC, version 3 you could have some of their services (not
billing) on-prem. Version 4 had an on-prem ability, due to the
very reasons I stated... a VM on your host is no different
than a VM on my host from an OS\application perspective.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Josh Luthman" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Wednesday, October 18, 2017 8:20:17 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
Wispmon was cloud only wasn't it?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:%28937%29%20552-2340>
Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:%28937%29%20552-2343>
1100 Wayne St
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
Suite 1337
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
Troy, OH 45373
<https://maps.google.com/?q=1100+Wayne+St+Suite+1337+Troy,+OH+45373&entry=gmail&source=g>
On Oct 18, 2017 9:16 AM, "Josh Reynolds" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
He always has a choice.
On Oct 18, 2017 7:14 AM, "Matt Hoppes"
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
He didn't have a choice. His cloud-based billing
provider went out of business and sold to sonar. So he
doesn't even really have the option of running old
software, he's being forced to upgrade.
On Oct 18, 2017, at 07:55, Josh Reynolds
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
Please don't become a Sonar customer just to
demonize them because you don't like their service
model.
Seriously. That'd be a super shitty thing to do.
On Oct 18, 2017 6:52 AM, "Mike Hammett"
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I will be using it shortly as Sonar bought
WISPMon.
All of the major billing\OSS platforms with
modern features are also cloud-based, so
there's not really anywhere else to go.
That's fine for you that it works that way,
but many WISPs are increasing their use of
on-premises virtualization. What about your
monitoring, DNS, RADIUS, syslog, Unimus, mail,
etc., etc. servers?
Yes, my reasons do outweigh arbitrary reasons
to keep it in a cloud environment.
Actually, I've been fairly quiet on this
particular issue and will be increasing my
advocacy efforts in this regard to all
billing\OSS platforms. As I said, it's the SFP
port of the billing\OSS world.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
<http://www.ics-il.com/>
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<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange
<http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
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<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP
<http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
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<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Darin Steffl"
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*To: *[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent: *Tuesday, October 17, 2017 10:08:47 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Sonar
I'm in agreement with Simon that it's much
faster and reliable to host in the cloud than
a server on site. It would cost me many more
hours, hand holding, and worry if I had to
host this server in my network. If I went on
vacation and something happened, I'd be stressed.
With sonar living in the cloud, there's less
to worry about as it's hosted in a much more
reliable datacenter than I could afford to
build. It's also managed by sonar's team so if
there's an issue, they take care of it. Stress
free for me.
I see why you might want to host it in house
but those reasons do NOT outweigh all the
benefits of letting sonar host it in the cloud
for you and take care of the problems.
Mike, if you don't like Simon's decision to
leave it in the cloud, shut up and move on.
There's no reason for you and Matt Hoppes to
keep beating a dead horse and sound like a
broken record. Use something else you're happy
with and let the rest of us grow our business
and make more $ while you two complain about a
product you don't even use. Jeez ha
On Oct 17, 2017 8:31 PM, "Seth Mattinen"
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On 10/17/17 6:14 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
Expect repeated harassment until a
good reason is presented or you
capitulate.
It's the SFP of the billing\OSS world.
I always welcome my competitors to have
external dependencies. When they try to
hand wave their problems away as vendor or
cloud problems it helps me gain new customers.
~Seth
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Email: [email protected]
Phone: (702) 447-1247 US / (780) 900-1180 CA
---------------------------
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The future of ISP billing and OSS
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