You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it.
On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 > splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? > > Class B or class C optics? > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have > long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile > too. > > The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in > any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are > common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON > wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON > techs. > > Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" > PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. > > We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole > with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the > cabinet. > > On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got >> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. >> >> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't >> remember the name of can be uneven. >> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and >> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I >> misunderstanding you? >> >> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with >> Ubiquiti's offering... >> >> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >> >>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that >>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and >>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be >>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >>> >>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. >>> com> wrote: >>> >>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >>> seems like a nightmare. >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>> >>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan >>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. >>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went >>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router >>>> that solves the problem. >>>> >>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway >>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC >>>> wifi and voip. >>>> >>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a >>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chuck, >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too. >>>>> >>>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality >>>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >>>>> >>>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >>>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to >>>>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc >>>>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626 >>>>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx >>>>> >>>>> Gerard >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >>>>>> >>>>>> You are using this now? >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont >>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. >>>>>> >>>>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon >>>>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu- >>>>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html >>>>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o >>>>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port >>>>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html >>>>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connec >>>>>> tor_0391 >>>>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS >>>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html >>>>>> 20M $7.66 >>>>>> 10M $5.66 >>>>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) >>>>>> >>>>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 >>>>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. >>>>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 >>>>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. >>>>>> >>>>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11 >>>>>> 948.html >>>>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 >>>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html >>>>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 >>>>>> >>>>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a >>>>>> few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. >>>>>> >>>>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per >>>>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with >>>>>> POTS >>>>>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers >>>>>> per >>>>>> port. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU >>>>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) >>>>>> >>>>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always >>>>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to >>>>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to >>>>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different >>>>>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new >>>>>> ONT's. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gerard >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 >>>>>>> ONT $ 215.00 >>>>>>> Unicam $ 15.00 >>>>>>> Cyber Power $ 81.00 >>>>>>> Cyber Install $ 110.00 >>>>>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 >>>>>>> OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 >>>>>>> Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 >>>>>>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 * >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM >>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser >>>>>>> and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about >>>>>>> $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. >>>>>>> But, >>>>>>> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we >>>>>>> are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm >>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> type of major upgrade for several years. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need >>>>>>> to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. >>>>>>> Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently >>>>>>> have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON >>>>>>> side. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark * >>>>>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in >>>>>>> cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and >>>>>>> outdoor cabinets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per >>>>>>> customer. >>>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing >>>>>>> myself to do PON. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >>>>>>> *To:* Adam Moffett >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement >>>>>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot >>>>>>> exceed 20Km." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long >>>>>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that >>>>>>> into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a >>>>>>> 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles >>>>>>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 >>>>>>> splitter >>>>>>> to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light >>>>>>> budget. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max >>>>>>> usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our >>>>>>> ports. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Maybe I need to review the math. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't >>>>>>> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every >>>>>>> fiber >>>>>>> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> >>>>>>> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 >>>>>>> split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *------Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm >>>>>>> looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run >>>>>>> the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 >>>>>>> or so >>>>>>> houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just >>>>>>> aren't seeming to work out for me. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch >>>>>>> to PON some day if I want to. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 >>>>>>> years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". >>>>>>> In AE >>>>>>> I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Adam >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A few reasons... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Port cost is still fairly high. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> More splicing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> More fiber required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Larger chassis required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> More power required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> More battery backup required. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON >>>>>>> capacity in most places. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Chuck Hogg >>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM >>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product >>>>>>> with Zhone is different. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was >>>>>>> DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't >>>>>>> remember which. ;-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM >>>>>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be >>>>>>> anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other >>>>>>> suggestions? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them: >>>>>>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: >>>>>>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>