They have a couple different options to achieve this, but they are much more expensive than just putting the bare splitters in whatever splice tray/closure they prefer.
On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote: > I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with > their MST/DLX options. > > Regards, > Chuck > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > >> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few >> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about >> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are >> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up >> a spreadsheet and play with it. >> >> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 >>> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? >>> >>> Class B or class C optics? >>> >>> >>> ------ Original Message ------ >>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have >>> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile >>> too. >>> >>> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made >>> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They >>> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON >>> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON >>> techs. >>> >>> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second >>> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. >>> >>> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so >>> handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from >>> the cabinet. >>> >>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's >>>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. >>>> >>>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't >>>> remember the name of can be uneven. >>>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", >>>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". >>>> >>>> >>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>> >>>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I >>>> misunderstanding you? >>>> >>>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff >>>> with Ubiquiti's offering... >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at >>>>> that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 >>>>> and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can >>>>> be >>>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >>>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >>>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" < >>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >>>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >>>>> seems like a nightmare. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another >>>>>> Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is >>>>>> accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU >>>>>> we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a >>>>>> different >>>>>> router that solves the problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res >>>>>> gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with >>>>>> 4x4 AC wifi and voip. >>>>>> >>>>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a >>>>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >>>>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality >>>>>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >>>>>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to >>>>>>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc >>>>>>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626 >>>>>>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gerard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are using this now? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >>>>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon >>>>>>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu- >>>>>>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html >>>>>>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 >>>>>>>> http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu >>>>>>>> -1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html >>>>>>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connec >>>>>>>> tor_0391 >>>>>>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS >>>>>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html >>>>>>>> 20M $7.66 >>>>>>>> 10M $5.66 >>>>>>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 >>>>>>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. >>>>>>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 >>>>>>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11 >>>>>>>> 948.html >>>>>>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 >>>>>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html >>>>>>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in >>>>>>>> a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 >>>>>>>> per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 >>>>>>>> customers per port. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU >>>>>>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always >>>>>>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to >>>>>>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different >>>>>>>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new >>>>>>>> ONT's. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gerard >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 >>>>>>>>> ONT $ 215.00 >>>>>>>>> Unicam $ 15.00 >>>>>>>>> Cyber Power $ 81.00 >>>>>>>>> Cyber Install $ 110.00 >>>>>>>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 >>>>>>>>> OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 >>>>>>>>> Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 >>>>>>>>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM >>>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class >>>>>>>>> laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about >>>>>>>>> $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per >>>>>>>>> customer for >>>>>>>>> electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. >>>>>>>>> But, >>>>>>>>> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm >>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan >>>>>>>>> on any >>>>>>>>> type of major upgrade for several years. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need >>>>>>>>> to make sure you fully understand both options before making a >>>>>>>>> decision. >>>>>>>>> Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We >>>>>>>>> currently >>>>>>>>> have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the >>>>>>>>> GPON >>>>>>>>> side. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark * >>>>>>>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in >>>>>>>>> cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and >>>>>>>>> outdoor cabinets. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per >>>>>>>>> customer. >>>>>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing >>>>>>>>> myself to do PON. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >>>>>>>>> *To:* Adam Moffett >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The >>>>>>>>> requirement >>>>>>>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs >>>>>>>>> cannot >>>>>>>>> exceed 20Km." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down >>>>>>>>> long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that >>>>>>>>> into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were >>>>>>>>> using a >>>>>>>>> 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few >>>>>>>>> miles >>>>>>>>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 >>>>>>>>> splitter >>>>>>>>> to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light >>>>>>>>> budget. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max >>>>>>>>> usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our >>>>>>>>> ports. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Maybe I need to review the math. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I >>>>>>>>> didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought >>>>>>>>> every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus >>>>>>>>> ethernet. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> >>>>>>>>> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 >>>>>>>>> split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *------Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm >>>>>>>>> looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I >>>>>>>>> run >>>>>>>>> the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 >>>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>>> and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 >>>>>>>>> or so >>>>>>>>> houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just >>>>>>>>> aren't seeming to work out for me. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still >>>>>>>>> switch to PON some day if I want to. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past >>>>>>>>> 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say >>>>>>>>> "never". In >>>>>>>>> AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have >>>>>>>>> to do >>>>>>>>> that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Adam >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A few reasons... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Port cost is still fairly high. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> More splicing. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> More fiber required. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Larger chassis required. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> More power required. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> More battery backup required. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON >>>>>>>>> capacity in most places. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *From:* Chuck Hogg >>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM >>>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product >>>>>>>>> with Zhone is different. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was >>>>>>>>> DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I >>>>>>>>> don't >>>>>>>>> remember which. ;-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM >>>>>>>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be >>>>>>>>> anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other >>>>>>>>> suggestions? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them: >>>>>>>>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of >>>>>>>>> them: >>>>>>>>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_2014052017 >>>>>>>>> 4927.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Jason >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >
