PS: That was in response to Matt Mahoney's rather interesting reply. ________________________________ From: Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <nano...@live.com> Sent: Wednesday, 19 June 2024 21:06 To: AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> Subject: Re: [agi] Internal Time-Consciousness Machine (ITCM)
You're confirming that you believe as you believe, providing your version of evidence that everything we observe is relative. You're also asserting how absolute truth cannot exist. This is the conscious you communicating with us. Yet, you believe that a poor excuse for an intelligent machine has passed the Turing test because on average it scored 54% human. This is my belief. Ever thought that the Turing test is a load of crock? It has to be, because relativity dictates that it all happened in the belief system of Mr. Turing. This is my opinion base don my belief. Is there ever an immutable truth, or are we still swimming in a petri dish? This is my consciousness asking a repetitive question. To assert that factual evidence is only possible with mathematics, must surely also be founded on belief. How do we know this to be true, other than those who believe it and practice it holding to the relative truth that their collective consciousness must be more correct than those individuals and collectives who do not perform mathematics. Seems to me, that there must exist different kinds of consciousnesses, as many as the persons you might be asking, or factored in by the numbers of those attending a consensually-based lecture or seminar. Now riddle me this. When you tape your nose and mouth shut for long enough and die, did you really die, or is it all just a matter of belief that you died? Was this state of bodily death determined mathematically? Seems to me, there's a while world of reality we're living - and dying - in, which we might not even be aware of, let alone consciously engaged with. Is consciousness then not perhaps, and simply, emotional connection, and the absence thereof, unconsciousness? I don't have a belief about this, either way. ________________________________ From: Matt Mahoney <mattmahone...@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, 19 June 2024 19:25 To: AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> Subject: Re: [agi] Internal Time-Consciousness Machine (ITCM) On Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 12:40 AM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <nano...@live.com<mailto:nano...@live.com>> wrote: In your opinion then, consciousness cannot yet be defined properly, but you know for certain that there is no such a thing as a kind of life after death, or a soul that leaves earth, even forever? How do you know such things with such absolute certainty? I don't know anything for certain. Proofs only exist in mathematics, and even then we have to start with axioms that we assume to be true. Most of what we actually know is based on evidence, and most of that evidence was collected by other people that we assume are honest. I believe the Earth is round even though it looks flat from where I am. I have seen pictures from space that I assume are not fake. When I fly to Europe, a round planet seems like the simplest explanation for why I have to set my watch ahead 6 hours to match the sun, but there could be other explanations. I can watch SpaceX launch rockets every few days from my back yard in Florida, but I can't really see where they are going. Their website videos show them going into orbit, which I assume are not faked. We have an organization with members around the globe whose purported purpose is to question the shape of the Earth, but whose real purpose is to question how we know what is true. But you ask a fair question. In the US, 73% of adults believe in heaven. https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/11/23/views-on-the-afterlife/ Which is more than the 62% that believe in evolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support_for_evolution We have to believe most of what we read or hear just to function in society. The more we are told something, the more likely it is to be true in our minds. Every religion has some form of afterlife. The Bible and Quran both say so. Hindus believe in reincarnation, with some claiming to have memories from past lives. 41% of Americans believe in ghosts and 20% have personally seen them. https://sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2023/10/conversation-are-ghosts-real.php So I can only explain my beliefs. I believe that all human behavior can be explained by neurons firing in our brains and how they are connected. We have LLMs that pass the Turing test, which is a stricter test for consciousness than we apply to babies and animals. I have never seen a ghost, although I met people who have. I was told in Sunday school about heaven and hell, but I stopped going when I was 10. I believe that evolution is the simplest explanation for why we fear death and why we turn to religion to cope. Artificial General Intelligence List<https://agi.topicbox.com/latest> / AGI / see discussions<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + participants<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery options<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T32a7a90b43c665ae-M43f1f1328264129fd99cf24a> ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T32a7a90b43c665ae-M83797f3253546a5a52fafa44 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
