Inter alia, reality consists of multiple mental states, some necessary to survive and thrive, others enabling the most elemental living only.
By default, these states of realities may be available involuntarily. However, predisposition and intellectual-to-cognitive interpretations of reality may enable a selectiveness to prioritizing a suite of reality states relative to personal and group experiences. Hence, concepts of induced, persistent and reality checks exist in voluntary phases of reasoning, as states of mind, as selective configurations of what constitutes experienced (including for imaginary) reality. Ergo, some configurations of reality are imposed, other are selected. We should ask for any context: "Is the illution necessary, or not?" Scientifically, we should consider for the existence of an objective realiy and its possible manifestations. On Sun, 20 Sept 2026, 06:33 Zoltan Nadasdy, <[email protected]> wrote: > 100%, Matt. > > > On Sat, Sep 19, 2026 at 10:47 PM Matt Mahoney <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Sat, Sep 19, 2026 at 5:04 PM Levi Dubrovin <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > A philosophical question: what constitutes true free will if the choice >> is initially predetermined by external factors? >> >> Free will, subjective consciousness, and qualia are all illusions. >> There is no objective test to detect any of these. The only evidence >> for their existence is your own feelings. If it was possible to detect >> them by some other test, then either LLMs have them, or humans don't, >> or it would not be possible for them to pass the Turing test. >> >> If I say that a thermostat has free will, that it can choose to turn >> the heat on or off as it wishes, how would you prove me wrong? >> >> - You say If that's true, then why does the thermostat always maintain >> the set temperature when it is free to do otherwise? Because the >> thermostat chooses to do so because it suffers if it is too hot or >> cold. >> >> - You say that a thermostat operates according to deterministic >> physics. There is no freedom to do otherwise. I say that the same is >> true of the human brain. All of your behavior is explained by neurons >> firing following the laws of physics. If this were not so, then it >> would not be possible for LLMs to be indistinguishable from humans by >> following deterministic computation. >> >> - You say that free will means that decisions are random or >> unpredictable. I say that no computer can predict its own outputs as a >> corollary of Wolpert's law, which says that two computers cannot >> mutually simulate each other even if both know the other's source code >> and state. Predicting your own output is a special case of both >> computers being identical. >> >> Proof: suppose A and B play rock scissors paper. A simulates a copy of >> B predicts that B will play rock, so A plays paper. B simulates a copy >> of A and predicts that A will play paper, so B plays scissors. >> >> - You say that an agent can still have free will if it really is >> random. But Kolmogorov proved that distinguishing a random process >> from a deterministic one is not computable. For example, the sequence >> X_i = SHA256(key + i) is indistinguishable from random unless you can >> guess the key. >> >> But free will still deserves an explanation. Qualia, subjective >> consciousness, and free will are the illusions you get from positive >> reinforcement of perception, thinking, and action, respectively. Your >> brain does this to give you a will to live because those signals would >> disappear if you stopped perceiving, thinking, and acting by dying. >> This behavior leads to more offspring. >> >> Even though they are illusions, we can't believe it and we still care >> if animals or machines have them. We care because humans are social >> animals that evolved empathy. We suffer when we see others suffer. >> That is why I believe that it should be illegal to program an AI to >> claim to be human or conscious or to have feelings. >> > > > -- > Zoltan Nadasdy > Dept. of Neurology, Dell Medical School, UT Austin, ([email protected]) > Dept. of Cognitive Psychology, ELTE Budapest > Dept. of Psychology, University of Miskolc, Hungary > http://brainstim.psy.utexas.edu > > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9e51fc70bbc4e9fc-M34b8009875d06f0c6c39d208 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
